Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

This section primarily relates to the prohibition on animal fighting, but it also relates to ensuring there is no cruelty or unnecessary suffering during a performance. I have some sympathy with the amendments put forward by Deputy Ó Cuív and we try to deal with them in amendment No. 30. The problem is that the term "normal farm practices" is quite difficult to define legally. Clearly, we are not trying to make it impossible or illegal for farmers to undertake normal farm practice whether with regard to bringing bulls or cows to a show or training animals for competition, etc.

There are also sectors outside of farming that are involved in training animals, whether in the equine or dog area or elsewhere. Therefore, we want to be careful we do not introduce legislation that makes it illegal to train animals in a way that is perfectly reasonable. I am not happy our amendment deals with this fully, having talked through the consequences of it with officials. Our amendment states:

In page 18, between lines 30 and 31, to insert the following subsection:

“(12) Nothing in subsection (1)(a) or (e) prevents the training of an animal by persons competent to train the animal provided -- (a) unnecessary suffering is not thereby caused to the animal,
(b) the public does not have access to the place where training occurs, and

Obviously, I support condition (a). However, looking at condition (b), we could take Monty Roberts as an example, a person who makes a living out of showing people how to break in horses in a way that is perfectly humane and a lot more acceptable than the way in which many other people break in horses. This is something we should encourage, rather than make it illegal. What our amendment was trying to do was to ensure that the public is not invited to see something that is cruel as a performance. However, the by-product is that we seem to be making illegal the training of an animal in public where the training involves some level of struggle between that person and the animal, although done humanely. We should not be doing that. Therefore, I want to bring forward an amendment that is similar to amendment No. 30, as we do not seem to have got it quite right yet. I intend to withdraw amendment No. 30, with a view to bringing forward a better amendment on Report Stage that will deal with the full suite of issues.

The final part of amendment 30, part (c) makes a provision, provided "any activity involved in the training of the animal is not prohibited by animal health and welfare regulations.”. This covers the training element required. This applies, for example, to Garda training of dogs to sniff out drugs or other banned products in airports. There is a need for practical training for animals, whether conducted by a farmer, arms of the State, a Monty Roberts type of person or his Irish equivalent.

This is a very important section and it is important we stamp out practices such as dog and cock fighting and animal baiting, whereby animals are pitted against each other to entertain people. I am aware Deputy Ferris has put forward an amendment which is a good amendment, which would provide that not only do we make it illegal to organise this type of activity, but we would make it illegal to attend or film it or to put that film up on social media. We are trying to give the tools to the Garda to stamp out a barbaric activity where people get entertained by watching animals pulling each other apart. However, in trying to make this section comprehensive, we do not want an implication for genuine people training animals for show or for work. We need to get the balance right in that regard. I feel close to that balance with amendment No. 30, but do not feel it is perfect yet. Therefore, I will withdraw it with a view to bringing forward better wording on Report Stage.

Amendment No. 28 seeks to replace the word "bull" with the word "bovine". This is self-explanatory. Page 17, section 15 (1)(e) categorises the throwing or casting of ropes or other appliances and refers to any unbroken horse or untrained bull. Basically, this concerns forcibly breaking in animals and is unacceptable. We do not want this to cover bulls only, so are using the term "bovine" to cover a broader range. In other words, whether a bull is just being castrated or not should not be the issue, but that the treatment or training should be acceptable. I agree with what Deputy Ó Cuív seeks in that regard.

With regard to the farm practices, I want to ensure we deal with the issue properly in terms of the wording we propose. Therefore, I will reintroduce an amendment very similar to amendment No. 30 on Report Stage if that is acceptable.