David Norris (Independent) | Oireachtas source

I greatly appreciate that. We have our own domestic problems here and we are dealing with the Personal Insolvency Bill in the Seanad.

I congratulate Mr. Peadar Kirby, his team and RTE on their courage. We saw them negotiating with the local commander and travelling on roads where they could quite easily have been killed. There as an element of extraordinary personal valour and courage evident. I was interested in the reference to Heart of Darkness. The most extraordinary moment in the novel is when Kurtz comes out of the very centre of the heart of darkness and utters that extraordinary phrase “The horror!”. It is strange that such a beautiful, rich, magnificent country should evoke a response of horror but it is not surprising when one considers that the numbers of those murdered in the genocide are roughly equivalent to what happened to the unfortunate Jews of Europe. There is no doubt that it is another Holocaust. There is a European dimension through King Leopold and the appalling things that happened in that regard.

It is because it is so rich that this has happened to it.

I accept what José Ramos-Horta said. This does not happen just because of the existence of this wealth. One must also consider the evil of people. One has to deal with the people. The mineral wealth is not responsible; the greed of people is. One has to change and challenge that psychology.

In King Leopold's day it was rubber. Now it is coltan and molybdenum. It was copper in Katanga. Can we have a list of the companies involved so that we can help to persuade some groups, and even states, to disinvest? It is helpful to have those facts. We will all do as much as we can in fighting the evil in the Congo.

Mr. King mentioned Joseph Conrad, but he had a colleague, Roger Casement. As Irish people, we can urge our Government to follow the individual lead of Casement. It was he who highlighted the horror on the international stage and, despite the objections and reservations of the European establishment, forced it into the public consciousness. Once it was forced there it was eventually addressed.

My first question is about the UN mandate. Does it need to be rectified? I think that, obviously, it does. Will that make any great difference? With regard to rape, I was glad Mr. King mentioned men and boys as well. I heard on a radio broadcast a young man speaking about the experience of being raped. The experience is significantly psychologically different, although parallel, from that of women because of the status of men in society. There is unbearable shame and agony even in trying to talk about it because it is seen as such a disgrace and horror. Of course it is so for women as well, but there is a difference.

I have a motion in the Seanad about sexual violence in conflict. I would be grateful for any facts Mr. King can give Senators, through me. I will give them to my colleagues. Mr. King mentioned the 30,000 women who have been treated in the centre in Bukavo. Again, it is interesting that there was no mention of men. He also referred to a Harvard study. If we could have some reference for that it would be helpful.

Mr. King mentioned Mr. Paul Kagame and the involvement of Rwanda. How can we get him to the International Criminal Court? I do not think the court itself has a mechanism to arraign people and summon them to appear. I think cases have to be reported. How can we, as a small country - perhaps using our EU Presidency - have an impact in bringing him before the court, or at least in indicting him and showing some degree of condemnation? It is astonishing that the people of what is probably the richest country in the world, in natural resources, are the poorest in the world.

The dynamics are similar to what is happening in the Middle East, where there is also European involvement. We solved our problem at the expense of the Palestinians. There is similar dehumanising and neglect unless there is a flare-up of violence. I stand with Trócaire on the question of goods from the illegal settlements being imported into this country. I am in possession of opinion from senior counsel in Ireland and counsel in Britain to indicate there is no impediment in this country to declaring an embargo on those goods. It is not illegal. I hope to be back at this meeting in time to ask the Tánaiste about this and present that legal opinion to him.