Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

Few around this table would not like to think we have bled general administration for all that can be taken.

That does not affect the people we are trying to help, which are farmers. We first need to have a detailed discussion on how much can be taken out of the administrative budget. That is why I want to differentiate between staff in research and those in administration and so on.

My gut feeling is that, as the Minister has eloquently outlined, the suckler cow scheme improves the product we put on the markets. The other schemes are often income supports and, therefore, even though it means making other savings elsewhere in the budget, we should examine the retention of the suckler cow scheme before squaring the circle and finding the €12 million needed. This scheme is of huge benefit to Ireland Inc. because it relates, as the Minister said, to the quality of the cattle we produce. It has, I understand, had a demonstrable effect on the quality of the national herd. I am interested in research on that.

These are the big decisions we have to make clear. We are hanging ourselves by doing this because we are not playing the normal game but I welcome that members are being given an opportunity to have an input into the thought processes. We will do so responsibly. We might not all agree with the Minister's decisions but we have to face the fact that there must be cuts and we can have an argument about the percentage. Governments have a nasty habit - ours was no different and this one does not appear to be any different - of making disproportionately high cuts in the budgets of small Departments, such as the Department of Communications, Energy and Natural Resources. I used to spend in a week in the Department of Social Protection what I spent in a year in the old Department of Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs. The insistence was on taking a significant percentage cut out of small Departments, but there was no cash in it. A 10% cut in the budget in the Department of Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs equated to €40 million, but I spent €100 million a day in the Department of Social Protection. There is a habit of taking a big cut out of the budgets of small Departments and not facing up to the fact that we will not sort out our fiscal problems unless we tackle the big ticket items of pay and pensions and social protection.