Dr. Kevin Warner:

I would like to revert to a couple of points that have been raised and hopefully point to practical lessons members might wish to take on board. On the drugs issue, there has been a huge effort in respect of resources, priority in policy and so forth in trying, not very successfully, to control drugs getting into prison. As Fr. Peter McVerry has pointed out, very little effort has gone into the treatment side. I point to Denmark, where as much attention is given to trying to control demand for drugs as to the supply of drugs. Moreover, while the Danish prisons have the same sort of screening and security procedures within prison, as well as drug testing and so forth, to try to control the supply, in addition to that each prisoner who still has three months left to serve and who asks for drug treatment is guaranteed to get that within two weeks. That is a policy. In addition, the treatment, where it is needed, is full-time. In one new prison I visited, namely, East Jutland Prison, about which I wrote a bit in my submission, one third of the entire prison is given over to full-time drug treatment for as long as people need. As Fr. McVerry noted, members should compare that with the nine beds in Mountjoy Prison for our entire system. Consequently, there must be that kind of balance between demand control and supply control.

I wish to make one point regarding community service and the issue that has been raised. As people have noted, alternatives to prison very often become add-ons rather then alternatives and do not reduce the prison population. When members visit Finland, they might examine what has been attempted there. I gather from the writings and comments of Tapio Lappi-Seppälä that this has been successful. When they introduced community service on a large scale, they brought in what he calls a two-step solution. The judge gives the sentence, presumably on the same basis as previously, but thereafter another body looks at it and essentially second-guesses it by stating while it is aware the judge sentenced the person to six months in prison, it will consider offering the person community service instead. This means the alternatives are not going to people who would not have gone to prison any way and this appears to work.

Finally, I wish to make one plea regarding conditions and regimes in general. Members should look beyond Mountjoy Prison and St. Patrick's Institution in respect of where the problems are. While there certainly are problems in those places, the dreadful conditions, problems arising from segregation and so forth also apply to some of the prisons we built within the last few decades. They apply to Cloverhill, Midlands, Castlerea and, as has been mentioned, Wheatfield prisons. If one considers somewhere like Harristown wing in Castlerea, with which not many people are familiar, it houses 120 prisoners. The people in Harristown wing are kept separate from all the facilities and activities in the rest of the prison for no apparent good reason and are further divided into four separate groups. There is a huge level of 23-hour lock-up and of doubling up in cells and all that goes wrong with that. Incidentally, I believe the problem with doubling up in cells is that it increases the likelihood of abuse, violence, stress and bullying. Members also must consider some of these newer places. It is the same in Cloverhill, where there are three inmates to a cell. There is little activity for people in Cloverhill and in Harristown wing in Castlerea, the amount is minuscule.