Mr. Robert Watt:

I agree. The average pay across the Defence Forces is €47,000. For the average private, the basic pay is very low and just above the minimum wage. For whatever reason, it does not seem possible to have a sensible and rational discussion about the pay bill or the public sector. I will not mention the Croke Park agreement because Deputy Murphy might get upset again. We do not seem to be able to have a rational discussion.

The average pay in the public sector is €54,000, with 80% of people being paid less than €60,000. That is not what I hear when I read the discourse and coverage. We must continue to get the facts out there and have a debate in order that people understand that the majority of public servants are teachers, gardaí, nurses, local authority employees and civil servants who collect taxes and make social welfare payments. They are not the small number of so-called bureaucrats sitting behind desks on Merrion Street. There are a few of us but not many.

We need time to get across what a public service of 290,000 people is about. We must detail what and who they are, the service they provide and their pay. As Deputy McDonald noted, the majority do a great job and provide a great service to people. We just do not hear that out there anymore and we do not hear the other side of the story.