Seán Fleming (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I thank the Minister for coming before the committee. Commencing a general debate on the Estimates for the coming year at this stage is a first small step in the right direction. I say this despite the fact that the documentation with which we have been presented is based on the policy for 2012 and that the cost of any new policy which might be adopted has not been factored in. We are operating to some degree in a vacuum, but I accept that this is only the beginning of the process.

I wish to raise one point in respect of which I would like clarification in order that I might frame my questions. I take it that the €51 billion in respect of the departmental ceilings represents both current and capital spending. If that is the case, I will proceed.

The comprehensive expenditure review has been completed and legally binding targets are going to be imposed on Ministers and their Departments. What sanctions will apply in circumstances where such targets are not met? Will it be possible for a Department to simply state at the end of a year that it overspent by €500 million and that it will require additional funds for the following year? Will sanctions be imposed in respect of this matter?

Will the Minister assist us in understanding the macro figures with which we have been presented relating to the budget? Both he and the Minister for Finance have stated the budget adjustment for next year will be €3.5 billion. The Minister for Finance has indicated that approximately €1.25 billion will be raised on the taxation side. He has also stated that as he will be carrying forward a figure of between €200 million and 300 million, he will only be obliged to find €1 billion in this regard. All of this means that some €2.25 billion is going to have to be raised on the expenditure side. The Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform has indicated that expenditure for 2012 was €51.88 billion and that the target for 2013 is €50.589 billion. That is a difference of approximately €1.3 billion and illustrated in the schedules with which we have been provided. Will the Minister indicate how it is expected to get from €1.3 billion to €2.25 billion. I cannot glean what the full picture is from the information provided. The Minister has indicated that the overall budgetary reduction already includes capital. From where will the other €1 billion that will make up the adjustment come? Perhaps he might clarify the position in this regard.

The next matter to which I wish to refer may not come within the Minister's remit, but given that he has responsibility for public expenditure and reform, he should be able to explain the position. How is the charge for interest on the national debt worked into the budget figures? We are discussing taxation and reducing expenditure. One of the most significant elements of the budget is the cost of servicing the national debt. This can, depending on international conditions, etc., vary enormously. I do not know what is the figure for servicing the national debt - it could be €7 billion - but where does it fit into the figures presented to us today?

The issue of increments was the subject of much discussion both inside and outside the House during the past week. When the Minister for Finance was before us, we did not have an opportunity to discuss everything with him. We have been presented with so much documentation that I am only getting the opportunity to read it as we go along. However, a note was circulated by the Revenue Commissioners which indicated that the average pay of its employees for this year would be €48,844 and for 2013 €49,477. Revenue notes that this higher average pay will be as a result of the increased cost of increments - approximately €3 million - in 2013. I accept that the Minister may not be in possession of the note to which I refer which was presented to us during the session with the Minister for Finance. Revenue employs fewer than 6,000 people, or 3% of the overall public service. How much, therefore, will increments across the entire service cost? Revenue appears to have highlighted this as a significant issue. Will the Minister elaborate on it, particularly as increments are the subject of ongoing discussion and comment. Does the Minister expect that discussions on increments and targeted savings on allowances - if such are to take place - will be completed by budget day? If they are not, how will savings, etc., in this regard be factored into the budgetary figures for the coming year?

A stimulus package of €2.25 billion was announced last July. Is this money included in the Estimates for next year? If not, how is it contemplated within the arithmetic relating to the budget?

The Minister referred to shared services. We have been informed that it will cost in the region of an extra €10 million to do what he has just outlined in the context of new policies and shared services. Based on the figures with which we have been presented , provision has not yet been made in this regard. It is projected that the cost of superannuation and retired allowances will be €466 million. This is despite the fact that under the comprehensive review of expenditure, a maximum figure of €438 million has been set. The outcome of all of this is that in addition to the €10 million additional cost for shared services, there will be a further shortfall of €28 million. I accept that pensioners are going to have to be paid. This means the Minister will be oblige to find €38 million to cover the shortfall to which I refer in addition to identifying how to reduce expenditure in his Department's group of Votes by 8%. I wish him well in his efforts in respect of shared services. However, he is going to be obliged to find an additional €38 million in order to pay for them and to cover the overrun in respect of superannuation and retired allowances. Perhaps he might indicate how he intends to proceed in this regard.