Michael Noonan (Limerick City, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

The Deputy is critical of the base position but we are following the instructions of the committee in providing him with that particular set of figures. We are, therefore, complying with its request in giving members that base data. The concept of no policy change is how much would it cost to deliver the same service in 2013 as in 2012 if nothing changes. That is what a no policy position means and it is the start of the Estimates process. If there are changes, for example, when we bring in a property tax, as we said we will in the budget, the Revenue will need additional resources because it will be in charge of collecting it and a certain amount will have to be added to the Revenue Vote. That is the way it works and it will be the same across the subheads.

As to the relevance of the committee's work, this is an opening up of the process. Members are now aware of the opening position and they can have a view before we make decisions in the Department. If the committee decides the Committee of Public Accounts and the Comptroller and Auditor General need more resources to do more value for money audits, for example, as the Deputy has been advised in the briefing notes and he says, "Give them more money", I will reply, "Where am I going to get it?" He might also propose the alternative way of providing the resources. This is a genuine attempt to involve the committee in policy positions before the budget is structured.

The Deputy also remarked that he had many briefings from various units in the Department. The Comptroller and Auditor General and the Revenue are independent in the exercise of their functions and they will negotiate separately on their Estimates with the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform. Clearly, at this stage of building the budget, they are making the best case possible and taking up negotiating positions to give them the strongest leverage when they come to agree the figures. One has to think of it as a process where people in different parts of the system are trying to get the resources they feel are necessary to achieve their objectives. That is what is going on.