John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I thank Mr. Fitzpatrick for coming before the committee and giving of his time. I know he is under a time constraint as he must go to meet the Taoiseach.

I have a different view of the Croke Park agreement but I sat here willing to be convinced about the whole process. I wondered why I had so many reservations about it. The pace of change and reform, which is critical to the survival of the State, is very slow and tedious. By comparison, in the private sector when the market closed down, everything chopped and changed, places closed and people lost their jobs and income. Despite this, in the public sector, we have the Croke Park agreement which has undoubtedly delivered but at a pace that does not compare with the private sector. That is the issue I have with the agreement. The Croke Park agreement also protects the level of pay, which is out of kilter with the private sector. Sometimes increments, which are added on each year, create a massive difference when one compares a low paid employee in the public sector and the private sector. While all those involved in the Croke Park agreement might be quite happy about the progress within the rules they have fashioned, when it is benchmarked against the private sector it leaves a great deal to be desired.

My next remarks are no reflection on Mr. Fitzpatrick, and I appreciate his frank exchange at this meeting. The four senior civil servants, four trade union members and a chair seem to conduct business as usual. Should the implementation body have been expanded to include someone different from the outside who would be able to give a flavour of the comparison between public and private sector operations? Change is being driven by the reduction in budgets. If there is significant reduction in a budget because of the economic collapse, one must shed staff or cut pay. Acceptance is built on the reality that the State cannot do any more. We were setting out to buy peace, where in fact there was no war.

I appreciate that Mr. Fitzpatrick came before the Committee of Public Account and gave us an explanation of the facts and figures. I wish him well in his work.