Damien English (Meath West, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I would like to make two more points on the black economy. We have had this debate with the Minister for Finance a couple of times. We are hoping we might some move on tackling the bigger projects. There is a black economy that cannot be tackled. However, where there is an outlay of €5,000, €10,000 or €20,000 this can be tackled through a tax incentive or grant system such as provided for in the Nordic countries in particular. We are pursuing that option with the Minister. We would all agree with release of funds from the pension fund.

The sick pay issue is one on which this committee has a strong view. We know that it will not be good for business. I understand the reason the Minister wants to bring it in, mainly from a public sector point of view and management of sick pay. However, I also suspect it is not being managed in businesses as well as it could be. As it is an awkward issue, and employment law is very awkward, I get the impression many employers stand back from tackling the issue of sick pay when a person is not genuinely sick. Perhaps I am wrong. I would welcome the witnesses' views on that. Is more information needed and is there a need for Government to lead the way in tackling fraudulent sick pay? I am speaking in this regard of people who do not turn on certain days rather than those who are genuinely sick. I have seen this happening in businesses down through the years. It is never really tackled. It is let go. However, someone else carries the cost of it. That is part of the reason the Minister is introducing this measure. I am not suggesting it is right. The problem in the public sector is bigger than in the private sector. Tackling and managing it is something the committee might engage in.

I understand Mr. O'Brien wishes to correct something I said earlier.