Dáil debates

Wednesday, 29 November 2023

Saincheisteanna Tráthúla - Topical Issue Debate

Childcare Services

9:20 am

Photo of James O'ConnorJames O'Connor (Cork East, Fianna Fail)
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I was not given any notice this morning that the Minister, Deputy O'Gorman, was not going to be in attendance. It is the normal procedure that I would be. That is disappointing. I want to put that on the record of the House. I have always been informed if the Minister or a Minister of State from the Department cannot attend. I am sure the Minister of State present will bring what is said here back to the Minister, Deputy O'Gorman.

I wish to raise a very serious problem that has come from flooding that occurred in my constituency and that of Deputy Stanton, who is with me in the Chamber this morning. Approximately 100 children in our constituency in the area of Midleton have lost their childcare provider through no fault of the provider but through devastating flooding that occurred for the first time, in scale and nature, where that premises is located. Tír Cluain estate, where this childcare provider is located, is just next to the Owenacurra River and was devastated. Unfortunately, due to the flooding that occurred, the damage is going to take a very significant amount of time to repair. This is a very unusual situation. If it was a primary school, the State would intervene immediately because primary and secondary schools are under the care of the Department of Education. Because we are dealing with a privately run crèche, which is very common across our childcare system, there is this bit of an issue around how they can get direct support from the State. They can apply for the business support scheme, which has been greatly improved since Storm Babet. However, the issues around Tusla and making sure a new temporary location is found are very difficult challenges for anyone to deal with when a natural disaster happens like the flood that occurred.

My asks are very simple. I ask the Department of children to actually talk directly to the crèche operators, the community involved and the Minister, because they need that support. I have to be complimentary of my other colleagues who are at the Cabinet table. I am thinking of the Ministers, Deputies Humphreys, Coveney and McGrath, the Tánaiste and Taoiseach, and the Minister, Deputy Ryan, who made time in their schedules to come and see for themselves the scale of the damage within days of it occurring. What I would ask is that this is shown similar care and urgency by the Department of children on entirely legitimate grounds. I am thinking of those families, as is Deputy Stanton, who have been so badly affected. Now they are having to find alternative forms of childcare, which is very difficult and incredibly expensive. There are those who cannot do so and who have had to give up working hours or find alternative arrangements with family members. It is a huge burden for any family to be dealing with, with children who are at such a young age.

I also reference the fact that we have Tusla involved. There have to be very serious procedures and licensing involved with any crèche operating. On an emergency, temporary basis, we need to find a safe location. The State should help in this situation. It is entirely on the grounds of how rare an occurrence it is given the scale, with in excess of 100 children in this facility. Unfortunately, parents in the Midleton area who are affected are at a loss because of this. It is through no fault of the operators or owners of the building. It is because of the flooding that occurred, which had not happened in this nature or at this scale at the location before.

Photo of Ossian SmythOssian Smyth (Dún Laoghaire, Green Party)
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The Minister, Deputy O’Gorman, and the whole of the Government are conscious of the disruption caused to a number of early learning and childcare services owing to the recent floods in Cork. The local childcare committee has been engaging with impacted services. With regard to financial supports for these services, they have been made aware that any service forced to close due to the flooding may apply for the continuation of funding from the Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth under force majeureas per the rules governing the early learning and childcare funding schemes. These services have also been alerted to two emergency business flooding schemes which were announced by the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment. These schemes are for small businesses, sports clubs, and community and voluntary organisations unable to secure flood insurance and affected by recent flooding. There are other supports available from the DCEDIY where a service is experiencing financial difficulty or has concerns about its viability. These supports can be accessed through the local childcare committee.

With regard to premises, the safety and protection of children remains the first priority in the early learning and care sector. This is achieved through the registration and inspection of early years services by Tusla, the independent statutory regulator of the sector. Registration of early years services can be granted only where Tusla is satisfied the premises, operation and location of the service pose no unmanaged risk to children. Tusla has been working closely with the local childcare committee in areas impacted by recent floods and has engaged with impacted services in these areas to help them to reopen their service in a safe and suitable premises and location.

In addition to these measures, the local childcare committee continues to proactively engage with early learning and childcare services to identify unused capacity and explore the potential for services to increase capacity to meet the early learning and childcare needs of families in the area. There is also wider work under way at a national level to address issues of undersupply, including through a new capital grant, the details of which will be announced by the Minster in the coming week.

Photo of James O'ConnorJames O'Connor (Cork East, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Minister of State for the response from the Minster, Deputy O'Gorman's Department. One paragraph of the answer explains why we are here. The nature and scale of the damage involved is very significant, without going into too much detail. A facility of this size working with more than 100 children, including very young children and toddlers, is going to need highly expensive works to be done to bring it back up to standard. I am conscious that cannot be done with just €100,000.

There are other businesses affected by this, but it comes back to the conundrum that if this were a primary school, there would be an immediate action plan from the Department of Education to deal with it the next day because it would come under its auspices, but when it comes to childcare, because it is a private facility, the Department washes its hands. That is not sufficient. It is not good enough.

We saw an incredible reaction from our other Cabinet colleagues, who were on the site within days. I know the Minister is aware of this. I understand the parents have been in direct communication and contact with him. We need to be realistic. It is an horrendously difficult situation for a business to retain staff for such a long period and not to be able to open until the works are completed.

My asks are very simple. Will the Minister talk directly to the people and families involved? Will he engage with the owners and operators of the facility because they need the support of the State in this situation? When it comes to finding a new site, we must get it fast-tracked through the system as a temporary base so these families and their children can have a safe space for learning and childcare provision. That is something that must be addressed with the immediacy the situation requires. The reason Deputy Stanton and I are here this morning is because we have received a significant number of calls on this important issue and we want it to be dealt with in the same fashion and the same care that other Cabinet Ministers showed in their respective Departments.

9:30 am

Photo of Ossian SmythOssian Smyth (Dún Laoghaire, Green Party)
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It is the local childcare committee that should be liaising directly with these childcare facilities. I will mention it directly to the Minister, Deputy O'Gorman. He was in Cork at the time the flooding happened, or immediately afterwards, and he has taken an interest in it. There is a fund for continuity of service. I ask the Deputies to ensure any affected childcare services have applied for a continuation of service funding under the force majeurerules and that they apply for the emergency business flooding schemes, which are open to voluntary organisations and non-profits and should be available to childcare providers as well.

I understand that childcare is vital to parents as it is something they need to go to work every day. This is the livelihood of the providers of these services. They are concerned they have stringent rules to meet in the normal course of events but they are now in an emergency situation. I do not think they will be treated any differently from a primary school or secondary school. What they are providing is a vital service. A range of grants are available to them. They can liaise with the local childcare committee. I will ask the Department to do as the Deputy has suggested and directly contact the childcare providers and the parents involved. I will also say it directly to the Minister, Deputy O'Gorman, with whom I deal very regularly on a personal basis.