Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Last Thursday, the Central Statistics Office, CSO, confirmed that Ireland was back in recession. GDP has decreased for three quarters in a row. Since last summer, the economy has fallen by 1.8%, the largest fall over three quarters since 2009. We are facing a perfect storm, with decreasing exports due to a co-ordinated austerity programme across Europe that Ireland has continued to support and a calamitous decrease in domestic demand brought about by some homegrown policies. These Government policies have contributed to the economic decline, for example, the cuts to our investment programmes, particularly the capital programme and the consistent underspending of same. Consumers have continued to be hit with regressive taxes, for example, the elimination of the PRSI allowance. The property tax has unquestionably impacted on consumer spending in the past while.

A coherent policy on small businesses is also absent and realistic access to credit is lacking.

One only has to talk to those in the small business sector to realise their frustration at the lack of any engagement with the Government on policies that could have a real impact. Added to that, the cut in child benefit and, above all, the continuing failure to deal with a growing mortgage crisis, which is acting as a millstone around our economy, are causing paralysis. That problem has become progressively worse and many people in mortgage arrears are simply not in a position to spend in the real economy. All the Government has done is to give more powers to the banks to put more pressure on many such families. As a result, consumer spending has fallen significantly. It has gone through the floor, falling 3% in one quarter, which is the biggest quarterly fall since the recession began.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

A question please.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

What does the Taoiseach and Government intend to do about this situation, given that the existing policy programme being followed is clearly not working, either at EU level or domestically? Domestic demand is flat and consumer spending continues to fall. The strategy is not working, so I would like the Taoiseach to outline to the House what he intends to do about it.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Minister for Finance, Deputy Noonan, has dealt with this on a number of occasions. I have just returned from briefing the European Parliament in Strasbourg in respect of the conclusion of Ireland's Presidency. In a situation where 26 million are unemployed across the EU, and with youth unemployment now reaching 60% in a number of countries, it goes without saying that other countries are facing really challenging difficulties.

The CSO figures mentioned by the Deputy are not consistent with the tax figures which will be produced later this afternoon. They will clearly show that the profile is on target - the budget having been predicated on a 1.3% growth rate - and that tax returns are actually ahead of profile. The difficulty with the figures that Deputy Martin mentioned is because of a fall in exports and the irregularity of the way that aircraft leasing, and the aviation business generally, works. Clearly, other countries are not in a position to be as strong in terms of their purchasing power as heretofore and this has affected Irish exports.

The indigenous economy is being stabilised. As I have often said before, in Ireland we lost 7,000 jobs a month for three years. That has been halted, however, and 2,000 jobs a month are now being created in the private sector. In that regard, it is disappointing that while these figures emerge they are not consistent with other figures that will be produced later this afternoon.

In respect of mortgages, the Deputy's own admission yesterday about his Government's failure to regulate banks was a central feature and contributory cause to the situation in which so many thousands of people now find themselves. The Government has put in place a range of actions to deal with mortgage arrears for people who are struggling to pay their mortgages. There has been a rebalancing between the rights of borrowers and lenders under the biggest shake-up in the personal insolvency laws in a century. We have given those who bought their first homes during the bubble period significant increases in mortgage interest relief.

All of the tools are in place to accelerate the work-out of the mortgage crisis. My understanding is that 25,000 offers have been made by banks to people who are in mortgage distress. Banks and borrowers need to use these tools to reach fair and sustainable solutions to mortgage arrears on a case-by-case basis. We cannot leave 100,000 families locked in this particular limbo.

In the first quarter of this year, 24,706 new restructural arrangements were agreed. Of those, 33% were interest only, 21% were reduced payment, 17% were term extension, 15% were arrears capitalisation, 8.9% were reduced payment, 3.1% were payment moratorium, 0.3% were permanent interest rate reduction, 0.2% were split mortgages, 0.2% were temporary interest rate reduction and 0.2% were deferred interest schemes.

These targets have been set as a consequence of the Government requiring the regulator to do this. The targets will accelerate the mortgage crisis work-out. Nobody wants to see this happening but it is a legacy of an unprecedented scale of problems that the Government has been working on for quite some time. The mechanics and tools are all there. We expect that the regulator, who is the licenser of the banks, will see to it that they live up to the targets and objectives that are set, and that people can have sustainable exits from the mortgage crisis in which they find themselves.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I thank the Taoiseach for his response, but I am somewhat concerned about what is almost a denial by him of the CSO figures. The Central Statistics Office is an independent organisation that has given us the figures that show the economy is back in recession. There is no other way around that. I do not know if the Taoiseach is correct in saying that it is not consistent with tax figures, but the public know all about tax figures. They are feeling the pain of regressive taxes. In many respects, it is the wrong timing. The nature of taxes the Government has imposed has sucked continuing demand out of the domestic economy and has inflicted considerable pain on many families across the country.

People will find incredible the Taoiseach's statement that there has been a rebalancing of rights between borrowers and lenders. His suggestion is that this is to the benefit of borrowers. There has been a rebalancing all right, but it has been totally in favour of the lenders, that is, the banks. Many people are fearful of the impact on their family homes as a result of the rebalancing that has resulted in making it legislatively easier for banks to repossess houses and, indeed, diluting the code of conduct in respect of consumers so that banks can behave more aggressively towards many average families.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

A question please.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Furthermore, one only has to look at the retail sector to know the scale and the degree to which the domestic economy is on the floor. I have heard nothing in the Taoiseach's reply that gives any hope or sense of a coherent plan to get the domestic economy back on track.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Deputy is over time.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Over the last two or three years, the Government has consistently underspent its capital budget. The Government keeps delaying expenditure on, and thus reducing, what was already a reduced capital budget. The Taoiseach could quickly rectify that to create some demand in the economy and job opportunities. Will the Taoiseach commit to review his approach fundamentally to the domestic economy?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I said it was disappointing that the CSO figures did not correlate with the tax returns and receipt figures which will be out later this afternoon.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

No. The Taoiseach did not say that at all. He is inconsistent.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Those figures will show that the profile is on target in the context of how the budget was set out.

The domestic taxes to which Deputy Martin referred do not impact upon exports. The problem for GNP has been in respect of exports where other countries have greater difficulties and face a series of challenges themselves. They are probably not in a position to buy as much of what we produce as they would normally do.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

What?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Let me repeat for the Deputy that in regard to mortgage accounts, some 79,689 were categorised as restructured at the end of March 2013. Of those, 53% were not in arrears at the end of quarter one. As a percentage of the total stock in arrears, both early and 90 days plus, 37,454 - or 26% - were classified as restructured. That does not suggest that 47% have fallen back into arrears. Restructured accounts in arrears include accounts that were in arrears prior to restructuring and where the arrears balance has not yet been eliminated, as well as accounts that are in arrears in the current restructuring arrangement.

New data collected for this quarter indicate that 76% of restructured PDH accounts were deemed to be meeting the terms of their arrangement. Deputy Martin himself admitted the other day that the Governments of which he was a member failed to deal with regulating the banks. The light-touch regulation, which became a feature as a policy issue, was a real contributing factor to people having to have inflated mortgages for inflated prices which drove them into this difficulty in the beginning.

The Government has been working assiduously for quite some time to put through the legislation and put in place the mechanism and tools both for borrowers and lenders in order to deal with this.

The Deputy will be aware of the changes that have been brought about in regard to the rights of the consumer as distinct from the rights of the lender, the periods of time that must elapse-----

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

They have already been reduced.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

-----and the process that must be gone through by the banks in regard to persons who have borrowed money from them and are the subject of mortgage distress.

Timmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The lender takes all.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

This has been, and is, a very difficult time for many people. As I said, we are now moving in the right direction, with significant numbers of people being offered restructured and, one hopes, sustainable exits from the distress in which they find themselves.

Timmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Exits from their homes.

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The ongoing revelations from the Anglo tapes continue to anger and outrage citizens. When I raised this issue with the Taoiseach last week, much of the focus was on who from within Fianna Fáil met the bankers. I also invited Deputy Martin, who was then a senior Minister in the Cabinet, to make a statement to the Dáil setting out which Fianna Fáil Ministers had met the bankers.

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

There has been no response from the Fianna Fáil leadership.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I made a statement.

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I also asked the Taoiseach whether tapes from any other banks exist-----

Timmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Boston tapes.

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

-----and he told me that he did not know. I then asked if he would find out if other tapes existed. Does the Taoiseach know now, a week later, if there are similar tapes in the other banks affected, including Irish Nationwide Building Society, Allied Irish Banks, the Educational Building Society, Bank of Ireland and Irish Life & Permanent?

We all know that Anglo Irish Bank received €30 billion of taxpayers' money and that the other banks between them received almost €35 billion. This means more than €64 billion has been taken from the pockets of citizens.

Do we know if phone calls between these banks and the Central Bank were recorded by the Central Bank? The Taoiseach said that there are no files of any value in the Department of the Taoiseach, although that is contested by Fianna Fáil. Are there files in the Department of Finance or Central Bank that would shed more light on what happened?

I am sure the Taoiseach has met real and understandable cynicism from many people about whether the Government proposes to address these matters. I suppose that is inevitable given the close relationship between the golden circles, some politicians, developers and speculators. This was reinforced by some of these bankers being rewarded with well-placed and highly paid jobs.

In terms of regaining public confidence, central to that is knowing if there are tapes available in relation to the other banks and files on the matter in the Department of Finance and Central Bank.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The answer to the Deputy's questions is yes, there are tapes available in the other banks. The Minister for Finance will be writing to those banks tomorrow requesting that the tapes be preserved in the interest of their being available for a banking inquiry, the form of which will be considered following the passage of the relevant legislation through the Houses.

The tapes referred to in respect of the former Anglo Irish Bank only came to notice following their confiscation under warrant by the Garda Síochána. The tapes were then forwarded to the Director of Public Prosecutions, arising from which a number of files have been prepared by the Garda Síochána and Office of the Director of Corporate Enforcement. Deputy Adams will be aware that a number of charges have been laid against individuals.

There is information available in the Department of Finance, copies of some of which have been taken by the Garda Síochána. However, there is not a series of tape decks in the Department of Finance, similar to those contained in the banks. I am assured by the Minister that all of this information will be available for public discourse in the context of the inquiry to be held when Government makes it decision as to the appropriate form of that inquiry.

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Taoiseach will excuse me if I am a little discommoded by the fact that the Minister is to write to the banks tomorrow.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

He will get the letters out this evening.

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

This all happened four or five years ago. The Government did not know last week if any tapes existed. Conveniently, the Minister for Finance is going to rush out of the Chamber now and write a letter that will be sent to the banks tomorrow. Is this the type of approach the Government is taking to these issues? There is a sense that there is one law for the well-connected and rich, another law for citizens and no law for some.

Patrick O'Donovan (Limerick, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Deputy is dead right.

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I do not believe what the Government is doing at this late hour is sufficient. I also do not believe anyone else will be persuaded about its intentions in this matter. The Government's handling of these matters has been dismal and is part of the national disgrace that this whole debacle brought upon ordinary citizens, including the Taoiseach's neighbours, family members and constituents.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I remind Deputy Adams that the Government has set in place an entirely new system of regulation and monitoring in terms of the manner in which banks in this country operate. The Deputy will be aware that the dysfunctionality of our banking system in terms of the number of banks here has changed. Some banks were recapitalised, new conditions now apply and, in terms of mortgages, new targets and objectives are to be set.

The Deputy is wrong that the Government is only acting now in respect of the tapes that exist in other banks.

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Government did not even know they existed.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

There is a legal requirement on the banks to retain those tapes for a set period. The Minister's letter is merely a reminder to the banks to live up to their responsibilities in terms of preservation of those tapes, which should be available for public information purposes and the banking inquiry to be established under the parliamentary system. It is a case of the banks having a legal responsibility to hold these tapes for a period and the Minister sending them a letter to remind them of that responsibility, so that they will be available for the public inquiry when the Government decides what form it should take.

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Does the Garda Síochána have copies of the tapes?

Clare Daly (Dublin North, Socialist Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Would the Taoiseach agree that Edward Snowden is an international hero? This young man who has a promising career and loving family, one which he is unlikely to ever see again, has become an international exile for the crime of releasing information in the public interest. The information released was of large-scale US surveillance not only of US citizens or its perceived enemies but of its so-called friends, the institutes of the European Union. It is a bit of stretch to say that surveillance of the European Commission has anything to do with the war on terror. It is much more likely to be linked to the imminent EU-US trade talks.

It is somewhat ironic that if Iran or North Korea engaged in this activity, there would be a clamour for something to be done. Instead, all we have is deep shockwaves throughout the international community, with no great response at other levels. Edward Snowden has put the spotlight on the need to deal with the issue of surveillance. As the European Court of Human Rights rightly warned, a system of secret surveillance for the protection of national security may undermine or even destroy democracy under the cloak of defending it.

As far as I am concerned, Edward Snowden has done a huge service. Given the manner in which he is being treated, the withdrawal of his passport and the US leaning on countries that may offer him asylum, Edward Snowden is in real danger of being persecuted should he be returned to the United States, not least because of the treatment meted out to Bradley Manning or the fact that President Obama has gone after whistleblowers more than anyone else, having already filed charges under the Espionage Act against eight people, which is twice the number against whom charges were filed by his predecessors.

When Ireland joined the United Nations Human Rights Council, the Tánaiste rightly said that it provided us with an opportunity of playing an active role in the promotion and protection of human rights worldwide and to make a distinctly Irish contribution. That day has come. Edward Snowden is in grave danger. What is the point in Ireland being a member of this body if it is not going to do anything about this situation? On that basis and in the public interest, I ask the Taoiseach to condemn the actions of the US Government in its hounding of Edward Snowden and countries that might offer him asylum. Will the Taoiseach confirm that Edward Snowden has applied to the Irish authorities for asylum and will he unequivocally support that application and give him refuge in this country?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

This is a serious matter which needs to be cleared up and the facts determined. I referred to the issue this morning in the European Parliament because of the decision taken at the G8 summit in County Fermanagh that formal negotiations on the EU-US trade negotiations and mandate would formally commence in Washington in July. The allegations that have been made of United States surveillance of European Union premises are a matter of concern to everybody, Ireland included. For this reason, the EU's External Action Service has sought urgent clarification of the matter in both Washington and Brussels. The European Union expects to hear shortly from the United States authorities. High Representative Catherine Ashton, on behalf of the European Union, has also spoken directly to US Secretary of State John Kerry in Brunei. We have discussed the issue with senior officials in the US embassy in Dublin and indicated we expect clarification on this matter as soon as possible to follow on the EU request. This country values greatly its relationship with the United States, both bilaterally and in the context of the European Union, and we expect to continue this co-operative relationship in the period ahead.

I confirm that the gentleman to whom Deputy Daly referred, Mr. Snowden, has written to the Irish embassy in Moscow requesting that he be granted asylum in Ireland. It is clear from the content of his letter that Mr. Snowden is facing potentially very serious criminal charges in the United States relating to his having made public information which was privileged and confidential relating to the US Government. Asylum applications are not accepted from persons resident or present in other countries, as our refugee status determination is based on applications for asylum made within the Irish jurisdiction. Accordingly, asylum applications made at Irish embassies abroad are not accepted. Section 8 of the 1996 Refugee Act provides that any person who arrives at the frontiers of the State or any person who at any time is in the State seeking the status of a refugee may apply to the Minister for a declaration of refugee status. It is a generally accepted principle internationally and one which Ireland applies that a person should seek asylum in the first safe host country in which he or she arrives.

Mr. Snowden has written to the Irish embassy in Moscow and I have outlined the conditions that apply in this regard. The process of dealing with the matter, in the event that a valid application is made, will be in accordance with the framework of international legal conventions such as the Geneva Convention, EU directives and regulations.

Clare Daly (Dublin North, Socialist Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I am not sure what the Taoiseach needs to have clarified as it is a fact that the United States authorities engaged in the surveillance that has been alleged. I note the Taoiseach is not willing to condemn the actions of the United States and chose instead to diminish them by describing them as a matter of concern. They are a matter of very grave concern, which will have serious consequences for our democracy.

It is in these exceptional circumstances that I asked questions about Edward Snowden. While the Taoiseach has confirmed that Mr. Snowden has applied for asylum in Ireland, he brushed off the issue by stating we cannot facilitate him if he is not on our shores. What criteria were used in the cases of the Vietnamese boat people and Bosnian refugees who came here and were correctly taken into this country? Exceptional circumstances require exceptional measures.

I recall that it was deemed sufficiently important to obtain an Irish passport for Tony Cascarino on the grounds of a fictitious grandmother in order that he could be part of Jack's army. A little creativity could be shown on the basis that this young man, who has done democracy a great service, is in serious danger. We have an opportunity to become a world leader in defending human rights and pointing a way forward. I urge the Taoiseach to seriously consider this issue. If Mr. Snowden lands in Ireland, will the Government give him refuge from the undoubted persecution he faces?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

As I have not met Tony Cascarino's grandmother, I do not know if she was fictitious.

According to Wikileaks this morning, Mr. Snowden has applied for asylum in 21 countries. I confirm he has written to the Irish embassy in Moscow. As I stated, the way this country operates is that refugee status determination is made in respect of persons who are resident in this State or in its jurisdiction. If a valid asylum application is received from Mr. Snowden, it will be processed in accordance with the Geneva Convention and declarations and accompanying regulations that apply in the European Union. That is the procedure that applies to every person who seeks refugee status in this country.