Dáil debates
Thursday, 1 December 2011
Order of Business
11:00 am
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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It is proposed to take No. a11c, motion re sittings and business of the Dáil; No. 11c, motion re leave to introduce Supplementary Estimates [Votes 19, 20 and 22]; No. 11d, motion re referral of Supplementary Estimates [Votes 19, 20 and 22] to select committee; No. 12, motion re proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of the terms of the draft scheme entitled Credit Institutions (Eligible Liabilities Guarantee) (Amendment) Scheme 2011; No. 5, Health Insurance (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2011 - Second Stage (resumed) and and Subsequent Stages.
It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that (1) the Dáil shall sit later than 5.45 p.m. tonight and shall adjourn on the conclusion of Oral Questions; the Topical Issue Debate shall be considered on the conclusion of No. 5 or at 3.42 p.m. whichever is the later, and Oral Questions shall take place on the conclusion of the Topical Issue Debate; (2) Nos. a11c, 11c and, subject to the agreement of No. 11c, No. 11d, referral to select committee, shall be decided without debate and any divisions demanded on Nos. 11c and 11d shall be taken forthwith; (3) the proceedings in relation to No. 12 shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after 65 minutes and the following arrangements shall apply: (i) the speeches shall be made by a Minister or Minister of State and by the main spokespersons for Fianna Fáil, Sinn Féin and the Technical Group, who shall be called upon in that order and who may share their time, and shall not exceed 15 minutes in each case; (ii) a Minister or Minister of State shall be called upon to make a speech in reply which shall not exceed five minutes; (4) the resumed Second Stage and Subsequent Stages of No. 5 shall be taken today and the following arrangements shall apply: (i) the proceedings on the Second Stage shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion at 2.10 p.m.; (ii) the proceedings on the Committee and Remaining Stages shall commence immediately upon the conclusion of Second Stage and shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion at 3.42 p.m. by one question which shall be put from the Chair and which shall, in relation to amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Minister for Health; (5) in relation to the Thirty-First Amendment of the Constitution (Presidency) Bill 2011, the Second Stage of which shall be considered tomorrow, the following arrangements shall apply: (i) the opening speech of the main spokespersons for the Technical Group, Fianna Fáil, Sinn Féin and of a Minister or Minister of State, who shall be called upon in that order, shall not exceed 15 minutes in each case; (ii) the speech of each other Member called upon shall not exceed 15 minutes in each case; (iii) Members may share time; (iv) a Minister or Minister of State, who may speak twice, shall be called upon not later than 1 p.m. to make a speech which shall not exceed 15 minutes; (v) the main spokesperson for the Technical Group shall be called upon to make a speech in reply which shall not exceed 15 minutes; and (6) the Dáil shall sit on Monday, 5 December, 2011 at 2.30 p.m. and shall adjourn at 4.30 p.m. and the following arrangements shall apply: Statements on Expenditure shall be taken and the statements of a Minister and of the main spokespersons for Fianna Fáil, Sinn Féin and the Technical Group, who shall be called upon in that order and who may share their time, shall not exceed 30 minutes in each case.
Billy Kelleher (Cork North Central, Fianna Fail)
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Talk about window-dressing a budget.
Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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Only two hours for Monday's budget statement.
Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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Will Labour Party Members be voting for the bank guarantee later on?
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Is the proposal that the Dáil shall sit later than 5.45 p.m. tonight agreed to? Agreed.
Is the proposal for dealing with Nos. a11c, 11c and 11d agreed to?
Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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No, it is not. I understand there will be no oral parliamentary questions next Tuesday and Wednesday. There was always the tradition that parliamentary questions went ahead on budget day, as did Taoiseach's Question Time. I also note Topical Issue Matters will not be taken next Wednesday.
Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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They are never taken anyway.
Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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I accept on the Tuesday of the budget it was a tradition not to have Adjournment matters. While I am opposed to this proposal I am not going to press it to a vote. Votes on the Order of Business have become the Government's ruse to limit the time and ensure we cannot ask questions of the Government.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Is the proposal for dealing with No. 12 agreed to?
James Bannon (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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I see Deputy Mary Lou McDonald getting ready to jump up.
Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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No, it is not agreed. I oppose the guillotining of the debate on extending the bank guarantee and request more time is devoted to it. I have no doubt the Tánaiste's colleagues in the Labour Party, particularly the newer Members, will need a lot of time to explain their support for this extension.
Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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Deputy McDonald should check the record as to how Sinn Féin voted on it before.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Will Deputy McDonald proceed?
Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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Given their very vocal commentary on the guarantee over the past three years, it is not acceptable to Sinn Féin to allocate such a short time to such a crucial debate on such a central matter which has been historically of concern to the Labour Party. More time should be extended.
Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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Deputy Doherty was delighted with the bank guarantee the first time around.
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Not a chance.
Aodhán Ó Ríordáin (Dublin North Central, Labour)
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Another U-turn from Sinn Féin.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I call Deputy Higgins.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I call Deputy Higgins.
Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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The disastrous decisions on the banking system made by successive Governments and the majority in the Dáil have been the source of much of the crisis we are experiencing and the suffering of our people to bail out speculators and gamblers. At the very least we deserve a full and thorough opportunity to go through the experience of the past three years and not least for Labour Party backbenchers to explain their U-turn in this regard. They need to explain why instead of standing by the citizens and the working people, they are standing by the speculators.
Robert Dowds (Dublin Mid West, Labour)
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Will Deputy Higgins please explain an alternative route?
Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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We on this side of the House are opposed to guillotines, which the Tánaiste used to oppose when those Fianna Fáil Members in front of me made similar proposals when in Government. If the Tánaiste is consistent with his days in opposition, he will give more time to this debate.
Joe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
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Many over there voted for it.
Joe Carey (Clare, Fine Gael)
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Give us the figures, Deputy Higgins.
Jerry Buttimer (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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Was Deputy Higgins on Vincent Browne's television show last night?
Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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I agree with my colleagues there should be more time to debate the serious issue of the extension of the bank guarantee. While Fianna Fáil agrees with the Government's position, it is totally at odds with the Labour Party's previous position.
Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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Like so much else.
Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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The Tánaiste's Labour Party colleagues should be given the opportunity to explain how they have come around to believing this is the right policy.
It is also important-----
Arthur Spring (Kerry North-West Limerick, Labour)
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Deputy Ó Cuív should stop digging a hole for himself.
Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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-----the Government explains what it is doing with burden-sharing or as its members used to call it "burning the bondholders".
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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That is a separate issue.
Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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Will the Government explain why it is not burning the unsecured bondholders as promised so often when in opposition?
Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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They have no matches.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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That is a totally separate issue.
Billy Kelleher (Cork North Central, Fianna Fail)
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The time for the debate should be extended and the Tánaiste's colleagues can explain their position now.
Timmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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Give them ten minutes each to give us a laugh.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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I understood the timing for this debate had been agreed by the Whips.
Pearse Doherty (Donegal South West, Sinn Fein)
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Sinn Féin did not agree to the time allocated for this debate. On a point of order, a Cheann Comhairle, that is an inaccurate statement from the Tánaiste. Sinn Féin opposed this allocation of time.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Members talk about wasting time. This is a total waste of time shouting at each other.
Sandra McLellan (Cork East, Sinn Fein)
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Yes, it is technically.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Will Deputies allow the Tánaiste to respond?
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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I also remind the Deputies of both parties opposite that when the original blanket-----
Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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What about us? We are here too.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Will the Deputy get back in his box please?
Jerry Buttimer (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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He voted for it.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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His political hormones are at him.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Deputy McGrath voted for it as well.
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Look at who is on the blanket now.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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When both Fianna Fáil and Sinn Féin supported the blanket bank guarantee, the amount-----
Billy Kelleher (Cork North Central, Fianna Fail)
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Now the Labour Party is supporting it.
Pearse Doherty (Donegal South West, Sinn Fein)
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On a point of order, the Tánaiste is deliberately misleading the House. The Minister for Finance put on the record of the Dáil that the guarantee came into effect on 17 October 2008 in reply to-----
Pearse Doherty (Donegal South West, Sinn Fein)
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-----Parliamentary Question No. 150 of 8 November 2011. He said that is when the CIFS came into effect.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Would the Deputy mind resuming his seat?
Pearse Doherty (Donegal South West, Sinn Fein)
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It is the Minister for Finance's own comment and the Tánaiste knows well that Sinn Féin and the Labour Party voted on 17 October 2008 against that scheme.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Will the Deputy resume the seat?
Pearse Doherty (Donegal South West, Sinn Fein)
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He is deliberately misleading the Dáil in trying to give cover to his own Members who will walk through the lobbies and vote for an extension of the blanket guarantee, which is a blank cheque for the banks, including the former Anglo Irish Bank.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy should resume his seat.
Pearse Doherty (Donegal South West, Sinn Fein)
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Those are the facts. The Tánaiste should deal with them.
Michael McCarthy (Cork South West, Labour)
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Sinn Féin got caught.
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Look at the Deputies opposite. They are guilty.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I remind Deputies, irrespective of who is in the Chair, that there is a long-standing tradition that when the Chair stands, the Member in possession resumes his or her seat. I ask Deputy Doherty to obey that rule, otherwise there will be chaos in Parliament.
Billy Kelleher (Cork North Central, Fianna Fail)
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There is chaos in government.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputies either respect the Chair or they do not. In future, if they do not, they will take a walk no matter who they are.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I am serious about this. We better restore some respect to this Chamber.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Deputy Doherty is tortured by the memory of the enthusiastic welcome he gave for the blanket bank guarantee when it was introduced.
Dessie Ellis (Dublin North West, Sinn Fein)
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Look at what the Tánaiste and the Minister for Education and Skills signed up for.
Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Sinn Fein)
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The lot of them are fact free Frankfurters.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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He has been searching around the Dáil record ever since to see if he can wish away his own words, which are imprinted in black and white.
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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He was not in the Chamber.
Pearse Doherty (Donegal South West, Sinn Fein)
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Is the Government going to wish away the blank cheques because the Labour Party does not do blank cheques?
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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He is coming in here with transcripts of the Dáil record underlined in green to do anything.
Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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Labour's way or Frankfurt's way.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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I remind Deputy Doherty that what he voted for was a guarantee of €400 billion. As a result of the Government's management of this issue, it is now down to about a quarter of that-----
Timmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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The Tánaiste should be careful because he will be doing the same later.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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-----and I cannot see why he is opposing an extension of a guarantee for the ordinary saver and deposit holder in our banking system.
Pearse Doherty (Donegal South West, Sinn Fein)
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This is beautiful policy using the same reason the Labour Party voted against the guarantee.
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Look at the guilty faces.
Pearse Doherty (Donegal South West, Sinn Fein)
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They are absolutely shameful. This is the most expensive U-turn in the history of the Dáil.
The Dail Divided:
For the motion: 85 (James Bannon, Tom Barry, Joan Burton, Ray Butler, Jerry Buttimer, Catherine Byrne, Eric Byrne, Joe Carey, Paudie Coffey, Áine Collins, Michael Conaghan, Seán Conlan, Paul Connaughton, Ciara Conway, Noel Coonan, Marcella Corcoran Kennedy, Joe Costello, Simon Coveney, Michael Creed, Jim Daly, Jimmy Deenihan, Pat Deering, Regina Doherty, Paschal Donohoe, Robert Dowds, Andrew Doyle, Bernard Durkan, Damien English, Alan Farrell, Frank Feighan, Anne Ferris, Frances Fitzgerald, Peter Fitzpatrick, Terence Flanagan, Eamon Gilmore, Brendan Griffin, Dominic Hannigan, Noel Harrington, Simon Harris, Tom Hayes, Martin Heydon, Phil Hogan, Brendan Howlin, Heather Humphreys, Derek Keating, Colm Keaveney, Paul Kehoe, Alan Kelly, Seán Kenny, Seán Kyne, Anthony Lawlor, John Lyons, Eamonn Maloney, Peter Mathews, Michael McCarthy, Shane McEntee, Nicky McFadden, Joe McHugh, Tony McLoughlin, Mary Mitchell O'Connor, Dara Murphy, Eoghan Murphy, Denis Naughten, Dan Neville, Derek Nolan, Michael Noonan, Patrick Nulty, Aodhán Ó Ríordáin, Patrick O'Donovan, Joe O'Reilly, John Perry, Ann Phelan, John Paul Phelan, Ruairi Quinn, James Reilly, Michael Ring, Alan Shatter, Seán Sherlock, Arthur Spring, Emmet Stagg, David Stanton, Joanna Tuffy, Jack Wall, Brian Walsh, Alex White)
Against the motion: 42 (Gerry Adams, Tommy Broughan, John Browne, Dara Calleary, Joan Collins, Niall Collins, Michael Colreavy, Barry Cowen, Seán Crowe, Pearse Doherty, Timmy Dooley, Dessie Ellis, Martin Ferris, Tom Fleming, Noel Grealish, John Halligan, Séamus Healy, Joe Higgins, Billy Kelleher, Séamus Kirk, Michael Kitt, Pádraig MacLochlainn, Charlie McConalogue, Mary Lou McDonald, Finian McGrath, Mattie McGrath, Michael McGrath, Sandra McLellan, Catherine Murphy, Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin, Éamon Ó Cuív, Seán Ó Fearghaíl, Aengus Ó Snodaigh, Jonathan O'Brien, Willie O'Dea, Maureen O'Sullivan, Thomas Pringle, Shane Ross, Brian Stanley, Peadar Tóibín, Robert Troy, Mick Wallace)
Tellers: Tá, Deputies Emmet Stagg and Paul Kehoe; Níl, Deputies Aengus Ó Snodaigh and Seán Ó Fearghaíl.
Question declared carried.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Is the proposal for dealing with No. 5, Health Insurance (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2011 - Second and Subsequent Stages, agreed?
Billy Kelleher (Cork North Central, Fianna Fail)
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On the basis of the previous vote, Deputy Broughan appears to be with us on this side of the House. Well done to the Deputy.
Billy Kelleher (Cork North Central, Fianna Fail)
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Another man overboard.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputies should show some respect for the Chair. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 5 agreed?
Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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No. I am opposed to this Bill being guillotined. I have a slight difficulty in that the meetings of the Whips are quite informal in nature and minutes are not taken in respect of what is discussed, opposed or agreed. On a number of recent occasions, my opposition to the schedule presented at such meetings has been misrepresented in the House. Earlier, the Tánaiste misrepresented me again.
Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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Outrageous.
Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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At the meeting of the Whips I objected to the previous proposal and to the time allocated in respect of it. I also objected to the guillotine being imposed in respect of the Health Insurance (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2011.
Billy Kelleher (Cork North Central, Fianna Fail)
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We will be obliged to invite Boutros Boutros Ghali to attend future meetings of the Whips.
Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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I do not want a situation to arise whereby meetings of the Whips would have to be held on a formal basis, thus obliging me to put my opposition to items on the schedule in writing. However, if people want to go down that road, I have no difficulty doing so. I presume the other Whips would have no such difficulty either. I do not like to be misrepresented and my party's opposition to some of matters relating to the Order of Business has been misrepresented in the House.
Catherine Murphy (Kildare North, Independent)
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I also wish to place on record that my opposition to what was agreed should also have been reported.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Under Standing Order 26, it is the prerogative of the Government to announce the business to be taken on any particular day. The proposals relating to the taking of business-----
Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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The Government cannot make it up as it goes along.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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-----must be put individually. That is why I am obliged to put each proposal to the House.
Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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I am not objecting to the business that has been listed. However, I am objecting to being informed that I did not voice my opposition to it at the meeting of the Whips in respect of the time allocations involved.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I apologise to the Deputy. However, that is not really a matter for the Chair.
Billy Kelleher (Cork North Central, Fianna Fail)
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The House is being misled.
Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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I did not say it was a matter for the Chair. I was merely objecting, as is my prerogative, to the guillotine being imposed in respect of the Health Insurance (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2011.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Is the proposal agreed?
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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I accept what Deputies Ó Snodaigh and Catherine Murphy have said. If they state that they objected to these proposals at the meeting of the Whips, then I fully accept that.
Timmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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The Minister of State and Chief Whip, Deputy Kehoe, is being hung out to dry. He will have to resign.
Billy Kelleher (Cork North Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Chief Whip is responsible for the House being misled.
Timmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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Can the Chief Whip feel all the daggers in his back? Those around him smell blood.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Is the proposal for dealing with the Thirty-First Amendment of the Constitution (Presidency) Bill 2011 tomorrow agreed to? Agreed. Is the proposal for sitting on Monday, 5 December, agreed to?
Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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The fact that we are coming in here on Monday is totally unprecedented. There will be a speech from the Minister, the Opposition will get 30 minutes to debate the savage cuts that the Government will introduce-----
Billy Kelleher (Cork North Central, Fianna Fail)
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The savage cuts they all opposed last year.
Timmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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At least we gave them time to criticise it. They are stifling debate.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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We cannot get into detail. Would Deputy Ó Cuív make his point as to why the time arrangements are not acceptable?
Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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Fianna Fáil going back to its roots.
Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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-----and then the Dáil will shut down. I cannot see why we cannot sit longer on Monday-----
Alan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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It opens again on Tuesday.
Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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-----and what the purpose-----
Billy Kelleher (Cork North Central, Fianna Fail)
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How many bankers has the Minister, Deputy Shatter, locked up this week?
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Please, Deputies. Deputy Kelleher, your deputy leader is speaking.
Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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-----of the Monday sitting is if it is not a full sitting of the House.
Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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I also object to these arrangements. Two hours is completely inadequate to debate in any serious way the statement that the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform will make to the House on Monday.
Alan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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Deputy McDonald will have the rest of the week.
Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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It also begs the question as to whether, when the Minister for Finance, Deputy Noonan, gets to his feet on Tuesday, there will be a similar arrangement. It strikes me that this is a manoeuvre to shut down debate on the budgetary proposals. Far from being-----
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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We offered them 12.30 p.m. to 4.30 p.m.
Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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The debate happens here, as the Minister, Deputy Howlin, well knows. It strikes me that far from being a Government committed to transparency and offering up the full facts, it is pulling a sly one to try to break up the budget and shut the debate down in this House. That is a disgraceful manoeuvre on the Government's part.
Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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On Monday, the Minister for public expenditure cuts, Deputy Howlin, cast in his favourite role as the grim reaper of public expenditure-----
Alan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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Deputy Higgins should keep that stuff for Mr. Vincent Browne. Even he was not impressed last night. Even Mr. Browne did not believe Deputy Higgins last night.
Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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-----public sector jobs, etc., will come into the Dáil and lay out, in effect-----
Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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-----a programme of savage cuts, including the loss of 25,000 jobs in the public sector, which, as the House will be aware, is already under serious pressure in many services such as health, a cut of €750 million in capital expenditure which can cost up to 10,000 jobs and so on.
The Minister will have half an hour to roll out his list, which is easily done. However, responding to the devastation that this will cause, laying out the consequences of these cuts and the alternatives, which we have and which we continue to put to the austerity policy, takes far more time.
Michael Noonan (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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Especially for windbags.
Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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The 30 minute statements are utterly inadequate.
Alan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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Deputy Higgins could not produce an alternative that made sense last night.
Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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In addition, at least some Labour Party backbenchers are in an acute state of mental angst over these cuts.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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We are not getting into the relevance of things.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Higgins is entitled to outline his reasons for not agreeing.
Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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Rather than sending them off to the elf counselling services, also known as Deputy Stagg, the Chief Whip-----
Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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-----it would be much better to let them express their reservations and objections-----
Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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-----to the devastation caused by their Minister and the Government. Then they can tell us that they will vote against them as well and that would be a great deal off their chest. We need far more time on Monday to spell out the implications of what the Government is proposing and to put our alternative.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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What we are doing next week is new.
Billy Kelleher (Cork North Central, Fianna Fail)
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It is a stunt as well.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Can we hear the reply?
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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We will have the Estimates announced in the House. All year, the Opposition has been complaining about announcements being made outside the House.
Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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The Government will hardly announce the budget outside the House.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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This announcement will be made in the House and there will be an opportunity for each of the parties or groups in opposition to respond to the Minister's announcement. Each party, individually, will have the same length of time as the Minister has for making the announcement.
Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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There are many more elected Members.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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I remind Deputy Ó Cuív that what happened in the lifetime of the Government of which he was a member was that the Budget Statement was announced in the House and meanwhile individual Ministers went out and held press conferences about the various cuts in expenditure, etc.-----
Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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While the backbenchers spoke here.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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-----and it all was done outside the House. This is being done-----
Timmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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The Government is maxed out on press conferences.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Plenty of time is being given for responses from the Opposition parties and plenty of time next week-----
Billy Kelleher (Cork North Central, Fianna Fail)
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They have been flying kites for the past two months.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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-----as we have already agreed arrangements which clear questions and other matters. This will maximise the amount of time next week for debate on the budget in its totality.
The Dail Divided:
For the motion: 82 (James Bannon, Tom Barry, Tommy Broughan, Joan Burton, Ray Butler, Catherine Byrne, Eric Byrne, Joe Carey, Paudie Coffey, Áine Collins, Michael Conaghan, Seán Conlan, Paul Connaughton, Ciara Conway, Noel Coonan, Marcella Corcoran Kennedy, Joe Costello, Simon Coveney, Michael Creed, Jim Daly, Jimmy Deenihan, Pat Deering, Regina Doherty, Paschal Donohoe, Robert Dowds, Andrew Doyle, Bernard Durkan, Damien English, Alan Farrell, Frank Feighan, Anne Ferris, Peter Fitzpatrick, Terence Flanagan, Eamon Gilmore, Brendan Griffin, Dominic Hannigan, Noel Harrington, Simon Harris, Tom Hayes, Martin Heydon, Phil Hogan, Brendan Howlin, Heather Humphreys, Derek Keating, Colm Keaveney, Paul Kehoe, Alan Kelly, Seán Kenny, Seán Kyne, Anthony Lawlor, Ciarán Lynch, John Lyons, Eamonn Maloney, Peter Mathews, Michael McCarthy, Shane McEntee, Nicky McFadden, Joe McHugh, Tony McLoughlin, Mary Mitchell O'Connor, Dara Murphy, Eoghan Murphy, Denis Naughten, Dan Neville, Derek Nolan, Michael Noonan, Patrick Nulty, Aodhán Ó Ríordáin, Patrick O'Donovan, Joe O'Reilly, Ann Phelan, Ruairi Quinn, James Reilly, Alan Shatter, Seán Sherlock, Arthur Spring, Emmet Stagg, David Stanton, Joanna Tuffy, Jack Wall, Brian Walsh, Alex White)
Against the motion: 39 (Gerry Adams, John Browne, Dara Calleary, Joan Collins, Niall Collins, Michael Colreavy, Barry Cowen, Seán Crowe, Pearse Doherty, Timmy Dooley, Dessie Ellis, Martin Ferris, Tom Fleming, Noel Grealish, John Halligan, Séamus Healy, Joe Higgins, Billy Kelleher, Séamus Kirk, Michael Kitt, Pádraig MacLochlainn, Charlie McConalogue, Mary Lou McDonald, Finian McGrath, Mattie McGrath, Michael McGrath, Sandra McLellan, Catherine Murphy, Éamon Ó Cuív, Seán Ó Fearghaíl, Aengus Ó Snodaigh, Jonathan O'Brien, Maureen O'Sullivan, Thomas Pringle, Shane Ross, Brian Stanley, Peadar Tóibín, Robert Troy, Mick Wallace)
Tellers: Tá, Deputies Emmet Stagg and Paul Kehoe; Níl, Deputies Aengus Ó Snodaigh and Seán Ó Fearghaíl.
Question declared carried.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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We now move to the motion re sittings and business of the Dáil. I call on the Minister of State at the Department of the Taoiseach, Deputy Paul Kehoe, to move the motion.
Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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On a point of order, a Cheann Comhairle-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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We are over time. I have called the next business.
Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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Yesterday, on the record of the House-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Sorry, we are in the middle of dealing with a motion. Will the Minister of State, Deputy Kehoe, move the motion re sittings and business of the Dáil?