Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

We have had opportunities to raise the issue on numerous occasions but unfortunately we have not received any answers. I wish to raise the closure of the respite house in Clonile in Limerick, which is attached to Bawnmore, the Brothers of Charity service for adults with an intellectual disability in Limerick. That house closed more than three weeks ago leaving no respite service for adults with intellectual disability in the mid-west region.

I will not repeat all of the things I have said on the matter in various ways in priority questions and in the other ways in which I have raised the matter in the House. I want answers on behalf of the families that are affected and those who can get no break now. Even when people need to go to hospital they have nowhere for their loved one to go. We need the answers tonight and before we go on holidays. Those people will not be able to go on holidays this year if they do not get an answer.

I accept discussions have taken place with the HSE and the Brothers of Charity involving the Minister of State, Deputy John Moloney, and the Minister for Health and Children, Deputy Mary Harney. We do not know what happened in those talks. We do not know what was said and what commitments were given. We do not know whether there is an agreement or if the house will reopen. We are talking about the most vulnerable families and people in our communities. In the case of the mid-west, 63 families are affected. Cutbacks have also been made to a variety of facilities. It is a retrograde step for persons who have left residential centres to live in the community to return to residential care. We are going backwards. My main concern is when the respite house will reopen. I want an answer to that question. When will it be available for the families that need it?

Many Members attended the protest today and met with people who are directly affected, as we have done on previous occasions. Those people literally have nowhere else to go. I do not want to hear again about talks and about the fact that the Brothers of Charity in the mid-west have €25 million for the provision of services. That is not an adequate answer. I am focused on the families who are affected. They need an answer. They do not need to be told that talks are ongoing. They simply need someone to get their finger out and to make a decision. If the Minister of State, Deputy John Moloney, has to order them to open it then he should do that. That house must reopen. We must be told when it is reopening before the House rises tomorrow.

Pádraic McCormack (Galway West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I wish to address the situation in which service providers in Galway found themselves in the past week. HSE west currently has an overspend of €6.9 million. It is projected to be €15.5 million by the end of the year. The three main providers of service in the area to the physically and intellectually disadvantaged in Galway are the Brothers of Charity, Ability West and Enable Ireland. The plan of the HSE to address its bad management was to cut back the allocations to those three bodies to balance its books. The Brothers of Charity had already suffered a cutback of €2.5 million in its allocation earlier in the year but it was able to manage by means of excellent efficiency and savings. I compliment the acting director, Ms Anne Geraghty, and the board of the Brothers of Charity on this achievement.

In the McCarthy report on State funding, a savings target of 3.7% over two years was recommended. The Brothers of Charity achieved a 4% saving over one year. Therefore, there is no wastage or inefficiency on their part. Are they now to be penalised for their efficiency in saving of a further €2 million, as was suggested verbally by HSE officials at a meeting late last week?

Since I submitted this Adjournment matter yesterday, I understand there has been some movement, or perceived movement. I am aware representatives of the Brothers of Charity met the Minister of State, Deputy Moloney, today. I would like the Minister of State to spell out the current position. Will the budget for the Brothers of Charity now not be cut back by a further €2 million? Will the organisation be expected to make further savings? If so, it will be impossible.

If the HSE has a current overspend of €6.9 million and a projected overspend of €5.5 million by the end of the year, it should not be taking it out on the providers of a service to the most vulnerable who have stayed well within their budget.

A further cut of €2 million would have had a very serious effect on the respite service. Respite care provision would have had to have been reduced by up to 40%, thus putting an intolerable burden on families caring for loved ones in their homes. Respite care is the vital link that keeps affected families together. Families in some of the more severe circumstances receive one night of respite per week. This gives them an opportunity to recharge so they will be able to continue to look after their loved ones. The suggested cutback of €2 million would have devastated the service of the Brothers of Charity, which service is excellent.

What happened at the talks today involving the Brothers of Charity representatives from Galway? Will the €2 million that the HSE was supposed to cut not be cut? Are the Brothers of Charity now expected to make a further saving of €2 million in their very efficiently run service? If so, it will be impossible to do so.

I hope the wool was not pulled over anybody's eyes. I am not suggesting the Minister of State is trying to do so. I hope the representatives went home happy today and that everything in the garden is rosy. Will the Minister of State spell out for Members, who have been waiting for two days to speak on this matter on the Adjournment, exactly what happened at today's meeting? Has the €2 million that was to be cut been restored, thus giving the Brothers of Charity their full budget, apart from the €2.5 million that was cut earlier in the year?

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick East, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I thank Deputy John Moloney, the Minister of State responsible for disability, for attending the House. This is an extremely important issue for us all, particularly in so far as it affects the respite services of the Brothers of Charity in Clonile House, Old Cratloe Road, Limerick. The Brothers of Charity have provided an invaluable service to individuals and their parents. There are 63 families affected. We are talking about real people's lives.

I heard the Taoiseach state only 130 people are affected. They are real people. Many of them marched outside the Dáil at lunchtime today. Many are elderly parents of intellectually disabled adults.

The respite service in Limerick provided a break for both the intellectually disabled and their parents. Many of the parents are widowed. We need to get from the Minister of State tonight confirmation that the respite home in Clonile will be reopened. It has been closed for three weeks since 14 June. It is unforgivable. This matter has dragged on for far too long. We need to know the subject of the Minister of State's discussions with the Brothers of Charity today and how respite services for intellectually disabled adults in Limerick city will be affected. We need to hear that a commitment was made to provide funding and that the respite unit will be reopened tomorrow. We will not leave this House tomorrow until we receive confirmation in this regard.

The victims are the intellectually disabled adults and their parents. I pay tribute to the parents for what they do for their children over their lives. They have two main concerns, namely, that their children will be looked after when they are alive and when they pass away. People should not be put in these circumstances.

Before midnight, we want confirmation from the Minister of State that the residential respite unit in Clonile House on the Old Cratloe Road will be reopened and that the 63 families will be able to avail of the service again. They receive one night of respite per month on average.

This is a defining moment for the Government. The heartache that the failure to draw down €157,000 has caused over the past three weeks is unforgivable. I hope to hear positive news from the Minister of State tonight such that the unit will be reopened tomorrow and that people's lives can return to normal.

John Moloney (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I thank the Deputies for raising this matter. I recognise other Deputies had an interest in it also. I am not in the business of pulling the wool over anybody's eyes; that goes without saying. I will refer to the meeting today. It is a pity Deputy Jan O'Sullivan made the point this is a matter of having meeting after meeting but it must be a matter of meetings. That is why the meeting was today. Tomorrow evening's meeting will be with the umbrella group, the national voluntary organisation. Let us try to deal with the issues that arise.

Deputy McCormack was concerned about today's meeting and wondered what the outcome was. He has a Galway perspective. The Brothers of Charity confirmed that they can maintain the respite service in the current year from within currently available resources. It is not for me to say that. The Brothers of Charity has issued a statement this evening to this effect. I did not read it but heard it referred to on the news.

The statement that only 131 people are affected was made by way of saying 5,000 people are in receipt of respite care. The reference to 131 was in the context of the fact that 42 providers are providing respite care. It occurred to me that, of the 42, 40 were in a position to continue providing care. Two had a difficulty.

I want to be as specific as I can about the meetings. Some weeks ago, when the possibility of Bawnmore was flagged to us, I suggested to the HSE publicly on radio that the local health managers should sit down with the services providers to determine where their difficulty lay, bearing in mind the allocation of €1.6 billion for disability services. I pointed out at all times that it would not be necessary to cut the respite care budget.

Whether it is unthinkable or otherwise, it must be said that there was a €30 million budget for Bawnmore. The shortfall was €145,000. I mentioned the outcome of today's meeting in respect of Galway. The Brothers of Charity left the meeting today to consider the issue of Bawnmore.

I must give a commitment before we rise tomorrow evening. My commitment has been to retain respite services this year. I want to be very specific with Deputy McCormack because he raised concerns about this matter on a few occasions. The issue of demanding a further cut of €2 million is not on the table. Last week's suggestion of seeking a further €2 million will not be acted upon in the context of this year's service. This will be reaffirmed in the statement we will issue tomorrow evening.

Let me refer to the lead-up-----

Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Did the Minister of State clarify that the Limerick unit will reopen in addition to the one in Galway?

John Moloney (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I am not trying to hide behind words.

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick East, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Could the Minister of State answer a question?

Cyprian Brady (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The Minister of State without interruption.

John Moloney (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

No, I am prepared to accept the question.

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick East, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The second last paragraph of the written response provided by the Minister of State states:

The brothers have indicated that the respite service can be largely restored for €150,000 in the current year. The Brothers of Charity today indicated that they would work with the HSE to ensure this happens.

When will this happen?

John Moloney (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I am sorry if I am going against procedure, but I want to be as helpful as possible. When the restoration will occur is for the brothers to say.

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick East, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

But what about-----

John Moloney (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

May I finish my point? In the context of today's meeting, the fact that the brothers were experiencing difficulties led me to suggest that the HSE should sit down with them to find the base line if they could not provide the service, providing it should be possible in the context of a budget of €30 million and the brothers committed to doing this today.

While I respect Deputy O'Donnell's concern about the House rising tomorrow, I cannot be tied down to that event. I will be in the Department this month to ensure that respite services are continued at Bawnmore, Galway and Navan.

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick East, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I have a quick question. Has the Minister of State requested that the Brothers of Charity revert to him to indicate when the respite house will be reopened? Its situation appears to be different from that of Galway, where the respite service has not yet closed. The service in Limerick has been closed since 14 June, but people were only advised two weeks beforehand. Our concern is for the individuals and their families. The Brothers of Charity would do the work, but has the Minister of State, who has responsibility in this regard, demanded that they revert to him to advise as to when the respite house will be reopened? We cannot allow the House to stand down tomorrow and leave this matter in limbo.

John Moloney (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The same could be-----

Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I hope I will be afforded the same latitude as Deputy O'Donnell.

John Moloney (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Of course. I apologise if I-----

Cyprian Brady (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Just over five minutes are left in the slot. The Deputy should be brief and then allow the Minister of State to conclude.

Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

If the Acting Chairman has given one Member latitude, I would hope that he would do the same for another.

John Moloney (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I accept that.

Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The problem is that people have lost trust. The respite house has been closed for more than three weeks. Since then, various individuals have told people that meetings have been taking place. For this reason, I referred to meetings. People do not believe that meetings will have outcomes. We need a commitment tomorrow about a definite date for the house's reopening. Otherwise, we will not be able to go home to our constituencies. It is as simple as that.

Pádraic McCormack (Galway West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I wish to come to the Minister of State's defence. This is the best Adjournment debate I have witnessed since entering the House and I thank the Minister of State for his openness. Instead of reading from a script, as is usually the case, he has dealt with our questions. Did I hear correctly that the proposed €2 million in HSE cutbacks will no longer be going ahead?

John Moloney (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I am sorry if I am breaking from procedure, but I am trying to respond.

Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

It is welcome.

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick East, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

We thank the Minister of State.

John Moloney (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I wish to be clear. Deputy O'Donnell asked whether I had set a timeframe. At the morning meeting with the brothers, I put it to them that I could not accept that the centre would be closed for the sake of €150,000 out of a budget of €25 million to €30 million. To be fair to them, they responded to the effect that they would re-examine the scenario as regards the specific level of funding required to open the home.

I am trying to be as helpful as possible. It is important to put on the record that I am not taking this debate simply because of this particular respite issue. I implemented the value for money review to ensure that savings would remain in front line services. I insisted that two people from the sector be involved in the review. There is no sleight of hand.

I cannot give a commitment before the House rises because I will only be meeting the umbrella group for the brothers, the daughters and the heads of the sensory, physical and intellectual disability sector at 5 p.m. tomorrow. The €1.6 billion allocated to the service provides adequate resources to continue respite care.

Pádraic McCormack (Galway West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Does the same pertain to Galway?

John Moloney (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I do not want to refer to my prepared script, but I have supplied it to the Deputies. To be fair, no pressure was put on the brothers to respond immediately. They have stated that they have within their resources the ability to continue the services.

Pádraic McCormack (Galway West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Will that be without the €2 million in further cutbacks?

John Moloney (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

As stated by the Taoiseach this morning, the commitment to retaining respite for this year-----

Pádraic McCormack (Galway West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

That is what we all want.

John Moloney (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I cannot make a prediction for next year. This year, we must live up to our commitment to provide for front line services.

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick East, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I have a final point. The Government is no longer requesting €2 million in cutbacks from the Brothers of Charity in Galway. Will a similar arrangement be made with the brothers in Bawnmore in Limerick? It would enable them to find the €150,000 necessary to get their respite service up and running. Will the Minister of State make contact with the brothers in Bawnmore tomorrow to confirm whether respite services will open?

John Moloney (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I do not need to make contact with the brothers because they are committed to providing resources to continue the respite care. The commitment given by the Taoiseach and me this morning was to restore respite services. I am not trying to play with words, but I understand last week's meeting with the HSE in Galway used the terminology of €2 million in savings rather than cuts. There was no specific demand to cut money from the service. This year's service level agreements are in place. That is the commitment.

Cyprian Brady (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Time has expired.

Pádraic McCormack (Galway West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I thank the Minister of State for the way in which he has handled this debate. It has been one of the Dáil's best Adjournment matters. I thank the Minister of State sincerely for answering our questions instead of just reading from a script. I also thank the Acting Chairman for being so lenient with Deputies and for allowing the debate on this important matter to proceed.

Cyprian Brady (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The Deputy is welcome.

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick East, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Is the Minister of State committed to having the respite services reopened?

John Moloney (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Yes.