Andrew Doyle (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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The purpose of today's meeting is to hear concerns from representative organisations of the fishing industry regarding loss of income, equipment and boats due to recent storm damage. I welcome everybody. From the Federation of Irish Fishermen, FIF, we have Mr. Seán O'Donoghue, Mr. John Ward, Ms Eibhlín O'Sullivan and Mr. Ciarán Healy; from Iascairí Cois Cósta Inis Óirr, Mr. Mícheál Ó Catháin and Mr. Trevor McHale; from the South Wexford Lobster Company, Mr. Aidan Scallan and Mr. Kevin Kielty; from Íascairí Intíre Cois Cladach na hÉireann, Mr. Éamon Ó Corcora and Mr. John Ó Conghaile; from Galway Bay Inshore Fishermans Association, Mr. Gerry Sweeney and Mr. Pat Mullins. I thank them for coming today.
Before we begin I draw witnesses’ attention to the fact that, by virtue of section 17(2)(l) of the Defamation Act 2009, they are protected by absolute privilege in respect of their evidence to the committee. However, if they are directed by the committee to cease giving evidence on a particular matter and continue to so do, they are entitled thereafter only to qualified privilege in respect of their evidence. They are directed that only evidence connected with the subject matter of these proceedings is to be given and are asked to respect the parliamentary practice to the effect that, where possible, they should not criticise nor make charges against any person, persons or entity by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable. Members are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the Houses or an official either by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable.
Given that there are five groups we have asked witnesses to be as concise as possible. We will then have questions and answers in order to get as much information and to make the meeting as productive as possible for everyone. I will call speakers in the order in which I have called out the names. Speakers have said they will try to keep their contributions to less than five minutes. We will not ring a bell if they go a little over time but in order for members to engage it would be helpful if opening comments could be kept as brief as possible. I remind members and witnesses to switch off mobile phones and other devices as they interfere with the broadcasting equipment which makes it very difficult for the proceedings to be broadcast. I invite Mr. O'Donoghue to speak first on behalf of the Federation of Irish Fishermen.

Mr. Seán O'Donoghue:

Thank you Chairman for inviting us to the committee meeting today. We have a very serious topic that we wish to discuss, namely, the bad weather that occurred in December 2013 and January and February of this year. In our delegation we also have Mr. Ciarán Healy who is an active fisherman who has not gone to sea since the weather was bad in December. Members can ask questions directly of him as he is someone who is actively affected by what we will outline. There will be no difficulty in that regard.

To put the issue in perspective, we experienced one of the most severe winters, which lasted three months, that has happened in a long time. In the submission which we circulated, which I hope everybody has, we have shown that we had wind gusts of greater than 40 knots, which is gale force 8. One is talking about wave heights of between 5.5 m and 7.5 m. We had 40 days of such weather during a three-month period.

The weather information comes from Met Éireann. It is not something we dreamt up along the way. When one looks at the severe weather events over the four months, one will see the wind gusts of greater than 40 knots to 60 knots were consistent over the period and they were far higher than any of the previous years. There is no doubt we are talking about an extreme weather event. This is not something on which we will seek support from the committee every year. Unfortunately, from a fisherman’s point of view, because of the severe weather events, fishermen were unable to go to sea for a period of almost three months. Any of the lucky vessels that did manage to go to sea – they were the larger white fish vessels – only managed it for a short period, probably up to five days.

We are aware that the Minister, Deputy Coveney, introduced a limited pot scheme. We have only had an uptake of 151 applications out of a possible 1,800. That is a tiny amount of applications. There are a number of reasons for that. The first is that it was very difficult for many small-scale fishermen to find receipts for pots they purchased a year or two years ago. One does not normally keep such receipts. More importantly, the scheme was based on one buying a replacement pot and then claiming the grant support. If one did not have the financial wherewithal then one would not be able to do anything. We brought the situation to the attention of the Minister. FIF has been in touch with him on a number of occasions seeking that an appropriate scheme would be put in place to help alleviate the financial ruin many fishermen face.

We also highlighted that the situation did not just relate to pots. Whitefish vessels also suffered severe economic loss. That is in contrast to what was done in Northern Ireland and the United Kingdom where schemes were immediately introduced. We have been very mean in our attitude towards the situation. I have not gone into all the detail because of the time constraints. In the document we have come up with a number of ways to address the problem. We seek additional funds to be made immediately available by the Minister from the Exchequer. In addition, there is a European maritime and fisheries fund which was agreed at technical and political level between the European Parliament and the Council at the end of January this year. There is a particular article in that which allows for compensation to fishermen in extreme climactic situations. We can guarantee that what we experienced were extreme climactic conditions.

Also, the Fisheries Commissioner, Maria Damanaki, has pointed out that there is scope for compensation under that scheme.

If we do not do something about this issue, a significant number of vessel owners will experience extreme financial hardship. Some of them will have no option but to declare bankruptcy. We are calling on the Government to immediately put in place additional Exchequer funds, and to top up those with funds from the European Maritime and Fisheries Fund, EMFF. That legislation may not be published yet but it can be backdated to 1 January 2014.

This additional scheme must be in place before the end of April. It is very important that the scheme put in place has a user-friendly application process and that it does not require people to put moneys up-front before they can buy gear. If this scheme is to mean anything, the compensation aspect of it must be paid by the end of May.

In essence, we had an extreme climatic event which has caused havoc in the small-scale fisheries and in the whitefish fisheries. We have not got an adequate response from the Minister or the Government in that regard and we are calling for the scheme to be put in place urgently to avoid these fishermen suffering further financial hardship and even ruin.

We have a separate submission, which we are not dealing with today, on the seafarers allowance and other social welfare issues on the fishing side.

Andrew Doyle (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I thank Mr. O'Donoghue. The next speaker is Mr. Micheál Ó Catháin from Iascairí Cois Cósta Inis Óirr.

Mr. Mícheál Ó Catháin:

Ba mhaith liom ar an gcéad dul síos buíochas a ghabháil leis an gcoiste as ucht cuireadh a thabhairt dúinn teacht anseo inniu. Is mise Mícheál Ó Catháin as Iascairí Cois Cósta Inis Óirr. Cúpla bliain ó shin, tháinig muid le chéile mar go raibh imní mhór orainn leis an todhchaí atá amach romhainn san iascaireacht cois cósta.

Winter storms are part of our lives. This year was unusual in that we had more of them than we would have normally, and our location is particularly exposed being a small island. Damage done to boats and fishing gear is relative to the scale of the fishing operation. For many years, fishing on our island was seasonal and part-time, as is tourism and farming but in recent years we have been forced to work through the year in dangerous conditions to try to make a living due to a significant decrease in the price of lobsters, the increase in the price of equipment and so on. In addition, living on an island and fishing in a traditional way, many of our members would make their own equipment rather than buy it, therefore, in terms of applying for this compensation, receipts do not apply.

Fishing in this way all year round is not sustainable in the long term. We know that because our area is so small. We live in a unique location and community, and we have to make a living in a unique fashion, not amenable to the practices of large-scale operations but grounded on the traditions and reality of island life, which can be different.

Compensation packages alone for the small, traditional operators offer little in ensuring the long-term sustainability of our industry, which is mainly traditional. Many of our members engage in what we would call subsistence fishing. Some are not making an income or even breaking even, yet they are maintaining a tradition that has been handed down to us by our forefathers.

We would be interested in a managed fishery with a closed season and pot limit, with regulation dealing with the taking of berried lobsters and other issues to do with the long-term sustainability of our livelihood. The compensation package we are discussing today might not deal with that but perhaps it should be examined.

We see a big input for a local management structure to implement a sustainable fishery because if there is not consensus among the local fishermen, it will be very difficult to implement any of this; that must be the starting point.

Regarding income loss into the future, we see the proposed salmon farming venture by BIM as the biggest single threat to our environment and to our fishery, which has sustained us for many generations and on which we depend for our future because who will compensate us for the loss of our fisheries? We are talking about a 500 ha farm, which will take up most of our inshore fisheries. Therefore, there must be compensation for the loss of our fisheries.

Andrew Doyle (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I thank Mr. Ó Catháin. I call Mr. Aidan Scallan from South Wexford Lobster Co Op.

Mr. Aidan Scallan:

I am from the South Wexford Lobster Co Op and we are putting forward a submission for the inshore fishing sector arising out of the loss of earnings and loss of fishing gear during the severe weather conditions this winter. Our members - likewise, our fishermen - have not earned any money since last November with the loss of fishing gear and the loss of income. Most of our members have families to feed, mortgages to pay and boat repayments to be met along with the upkeep and maintenance of our boats. We do not qualify for social welfare due to our self-employed status.

Many of our members are unable to avail of the scheme offered by the Minister because we cannot afford to put 100% of the money up-front, and claiming back 40% from the Department is not sufficient for us. We need 100% capital up-front to allow us purchase the gear. Many of our members do not have the money to put up-front.

We are looking for assistance to get back to work because our fishing activity generates work and income for approximately 150 to 200 families in our area. With our boats tied up, there is a loss of revenue to the State. Some 80% of our catch is supplied to local processors who employ approximately 100 staff and depend on our product. We are a small community whose biggest employer is the fishing industry.

Currently, most of our members are living on credit with no income, with assistance from family and friends. With no money coming in and no means to start generating an income, bills are going unpaid. We are up to our eyes in debt to the banks. Some of our members are in a desperate situation. Without assistance our fishermen will go out of business and onto the dole queues, which is neither good for the State nor the fishermen.

South Wexford Lobster Co Op is in agreement with the Federation of Irish Fishermen, FIF, on calling on the Minister, Deputy Coveney, to help our fishermen who have suffered severe hardship as a result of last winter's storms. Precedence was set in the tax year 1994-95 when fishermen were given full financial assistance during severe winter weather for loss of earnings. That scheme was administered by BIM.

Currently, most of our vessels are tied up and due for renewal of the code of practice safety survey.

This is an added financial burden on our fishermen which they cannot afford. Many of the larger vessels have gone back to work, creating some income for their owners. However, the small inshore sector cannot start making an income due to lack of gear. For the small inshore pot fisheries to start making an income, we need 100% of purchase costs to buy new gear and to cover the loss of earnings from the end of November to the present. It makes sense to keep us in work, earning a living and not joining the dole queues.

Andrew Doyle (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I thank Mr. Scallan for his opening statement. I now call Mr. Ó Corcora from Iascairí Intíre Cois Cladach na hÉireann to make his opening statement.

Mr. Éamon Ó Corcora:

Tá mé anseo thar ceann Iascairí Intíre Cois Cladach na hÉireann. Caithfidh mé a rá ar an gcéad dul síos go rabhamar ceangailte cois falla ar feadh 87 laethanta gan bheith in ann dul ag iascaireacht agus gan aon airgead ag teacht isteach chugainn. Chaill cuid de na hiascairí a gcuid gléas iascaigh, agus déanadh damáiste do na báid agus a leithéid, gan aon chabhair nó tacaíocht ón Rialtas nó ón Aire. N'fheadar, faraoir géar, cén spéis atá acu sa tionscal in aon chor. Is í sin an cheist. Is ceist an-mhór í. Caithfidh mé a rá go raibh an scéim cúiteamh a cuireadh ar fáil amaideach. Bhí sé curtha le chéile ag daoine nach raibh aon spéis acu sa tionscal. Baineann na fadhbanna seo ní hamháin leis na hiascairí ach freisin le cúrsaí eacnamaíochta na pobail cois cósta, na háiteanna Gaeltachta, na leithinsí agus na hoileáin. Dá bhrí sin, níl aon ní ag teacht ar ais ó thaobh cúrsaí cánach an Rialtais, srl. I ndeireadh an lae, caithfidh mé a rá go bhfuil fíordhíomá orainn. Níor fhacamar a leithéid de dhrochaimsir inár saol riamh. Tá súil againn nach chífimid go deo arís é ach an oiread.

From 27 November 2013, for 87 days many fishing vessels and smaller boats of 10 m and under have been tied up and cannot get to sea. As well as that, the recent storms caused loss of fishing gear, as well as damage to boats and equipment. Unfortunately, there is a lack of Government support to deal with this issue. One wonders how much interest it has for the 4,500 people involved in the inshore fisheries sector. We have been here before and I am afraid matters have got worse since then.

For many of these vessels, they have a high level of debt because they need to purchase new gear. Not being able to fish means a loss to the local economy of the costal and rural communities, particularly in islands and Gaeltacht areas. For many of them, there is no other infrastructure or industry, barring fishing, small farming and seasonal tourism that lasts up to six weeks. The loss of revenue to the Exchequer will be significant. There is no income to sustain households, purchase new fishing gear, make repairs to boats, purchase new safety equipment or purchase goods in the local economy. There is also no access to social welfare for fishermen. We made a submission on that last June.

The Government compensation scheme was not suitable for most fishermen. I have been fishing for 34 years and know we are all under serious pressure. Deputies and Senators from coastal communities are aware of this. Why was no EU support requested? Cornish fishermen got an average of £6,000 each, the equivalent of €10,000. In 1991, the then Minister, Michael Woods, introduced a scheme to assist fishermen with European backing. It is often preached to us that we are all Europeans. Is it, however, that we are Europeans when it suits us and not when there is another agenda?

Up to 75% of the Irish fleet is under 10 m. Do we want the 4,500 fishermen involved to go out of business? The Government has been able to support farmers, a good development, in small rural communities. The scheme whereby the fisherman has to pay for fishing gear upfront and then get a poor enough compensation afterwards is not working. The gear companies will not supply fishermen if they believe they will not be able to pay them back. Fishermen are strapped to the hilt and cannot get bank loans easily due to limited access to credit. There is no debt write-down for the likes of us.

There should be adequate financial support for this sector from both the Exchequer and the EU. Fully licensed and compliant fishermen should receive across-the-board compensation. There should also be future-proofing against events like this. A fund should be established to assist people affected by adverse weather events. This is not just a few fishermen with the hand out looking for something. This is about coastal communities and the people of rural Ireland.

If a proper compensation scheme were introduced for the recent bad weather, it would allow fishermen - small and medium-sized enterprises which the Government has been warned to support - to return to fishing and earn an income to support them and their hard-pressed families. Fishermen spend locally since they do not have time to go to the other side of the world for their holidays, thereby boosting the local economy. A scheme would allow them to purchase new fishing gear and new safety equipment such as EPIRBs, emergency position-indicating radio beacon, necessary due to changes in the rules. Many of us who have had to replace them did so at a cost of €600 last year. This safety equipment is necessary and I welcome it on vessels.

I would never say it was overdone but it is hard to come back to the same people year after year and ask them to put their hands in their pockets again while they earn less and less. Insurance costs €3,000 for a small boat. It is an awful kick in the face at the start of the year. This inadequate compensation fund would help to clear the debt burden. Many of us owe money from last year and, in turn, the fund would increase the tax revenue for the State. If all this was done, everybody would be happy and give it the thumbs up.

Mr. Pat Mullins:

I will give a brief rundown on our organisation. I am public relations officer for the Galway Bay Inshore Fishermen's Association. I am accompanied by Mr. Gerry Sweeney who is the secretary of the group. We set up as a group six years ago to protect the interests of fishermen working in Galway Bay and along the Clare coast. We have approximately 33 members, the majority of whom are full-time fishermen, with experience of more than 30 years. Our main fisheries are lobster, shrimp, velvet crab, brown crab and scallop. At the moment we are working with BIM, the Marine Institute and the SFPA on the long-term sustainability of the fishery. For example, last year our organisation agreed to regulate the shrimp fishery which was poor and we postponed that until 1 October. It usually starts on 1 September. We also have a successful v-notching programme. We are working with BIM and the Marine Institute to try to introduce a pot limit because most of our fishery is potting. The past winter storms were horrendous and I reiterate the comments of the previous speakers. I do not need to go through all the damage done, the wear and tear of gear and loss of earnings. The replacement costs are excessive at a time when our backs are to the wall in the fishing industry. We are having a tough time surviving. We had red tides and poor easterly winds during the previous two seasons. We are trying to research the red tide. The velvet crab fishery in Galway Bay has been wiped out during the past two seasons. That was one of our main fisheries with five or six boats engaged. Up to 50% of our income came from this fishery, which we had nurtured. We returned juvenile fish and so on but, out of the blue, this fishery was wiped out. We think it was due to the red tide and severe easterly winds. Research was conducted on this fishery in England because 60 tonnes of velvet crab washed up on the beaches in southern England.

We have not followed up on this. I have been a fisherman for 35 years and not much research has been done on inshore fishing. These fisheries are sustainable. In 2010, we conducted a report with the Marine Institute and BIM on the shrimp fishery, which was worth €1 million that season. That was more or less wiped out during the storms last winter because our gear was damaged. It is well worth investing a little in inshore fishing in the context of research and development. We need compensation but that is a short-term fix. We need to look at the future and where we are going in the long term. We are not coming here with a begging bowl. We all want to fish and to work. We have all reared our families and put our kids through college and we worked hard at it. We have not made a fortune out of it but we have had a reasonably decent living. That is where we want to stay.

The reason we are here is the compensation package the Minister has offered us. In a way he has recognised that we need to be compensated but the compensation is minuscule. It is a shame it was not delved out on the ground through BIM area officers who know what is going on on the ground and who know bona fide fishermen. All inshore fishermen want to know is that they have a future. We need to be taken seriously. Research and development needs to be conducted. The Marine Institute does good work but little work has been done on inshore fishing over the past 35 years. Between 70% and 80% of inshore boats are under 12 m. More than 2,000 fishermen work in Ireland and the vast majority of them are inshore fishermen.

The proposed salmon farm in Galway Bay is going down a different route. If a fraction of the money that is being put into that from Government coffers was put into inshore fishermen to manage stocks correctly, there would be a significant spin-off for the local economy, for example, in Galway Bay where 200 fishermen work. It is still not too late. We could have a bright future. All these inshore fisheries are sustainable. Our lobster fishery was decimated 15 or 20 years ago and it has come back from the grave due to v-notching, BIM and ourselves. If each fishery was dealt with on that basis and a little effort put into it, we would have a great future. Perhaps we can address these issues with the committee in the future.

Martin Ferris (Kerry North-West Limerick, Sinn Fein)
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The presentations were stark. Many boats have had practically no fishing for 87 days and 4,500 people are dependent on them. An adequate compensation package to help people recover is lacking. It would take little to kick-start the industry again and it is not appropriate to put a package in place compelling people to borrow money to buy fishing gear when the vast majority of them cannot do so because financial institutions will not lend to people who are not reasonably well off in the current circumstances. If this package is not re-examined and reshaped, people will be unable to buy gear and resume fishing. I come from a coastal community and I am acutely aware of the difficulties the groups are facing.

Deputy Martin Ferris: The presentations were stark. Many boats have had practically no fishing for 87 days and 4,500 people in that category are dependent on this . An adequate compensation package to help people recover is lacking. It would take little to kick-start the industry again and to put a package in place. Compelling people to borrow money to buy fishing gear when the vast majority of them cannot do so because financial institutions will not lend to people who are not reasonably well off in the current circumstances. If this package is not re-examined and reshaped, people will be unable to buy gear and resume fishing. I come from a coastal community and I am acutely aware of the difficulties the groups are facing.

The Minister for Agriculture and Rural Development, Ms Michelle O'Neill, and her officials in the North provided the money upfront in order that fishermen could buy their gear and return to fishing, feed their families, pay off some of the debts they incurred during the 87 days without fishing and kick-start the industry. We need something similar here. It does not make sense to insist on the proposed package under which fishermen can make claims subsequently if they are lucky enough to be able to afford lobster pots or whatever fishing gear is needed or get a loan to buy them. If the money was provided up-front, people would go out fishing and the money generated would be spent in the local economy and the spin-off would benefit everyone. I cannot understand what is proposed.

I propose that the committee ask the Minister to revisit this and to put in place a methodology through which people can access the funding in order that they can purchase gear to return to fishing. I hope this would be supported unanimously but something like that is needed.

It was said only 151 fisherman had taken up the offer of compensation, which speaks volumes.

Of all the people involved in the industry only 150 have managed to take it up. Looking at that it should tell any Minister what is really happening.

The witnesses have suggested accessing the European Maritime and Fisheries Fund. That is another mechanism available to the Minister in order to make finance available to help get people back to fishing.

Since I was first elected to this House, I have got the impression that only the few of us elected representatives from the coastal communities really understand what it takes to service that community. The vast majority do not have any understanding of it. We need to try to convince people of what needs to be done here.

I have read Mr. Ó Catháin's presentation regarding trying to conserve the stocks and improve them. A considerable amount of work needs to be done within the industry in order to allow the industry to progress. I have spoken to the people from Kilmore - I know Mr. Ó Corcora personally. At one time it was possible to fish with 100 pots and make a decent living. The same people fishing for the same amount of fish now have 600, 700 or 800 pots out to try to make a living.

We need to look at how we can increase the stocks and preserve the stocks. Mr. Pat Mullins said that in his area the stocks had increased. However, I know that in my area and along most of the south coast the stocks are not in a healthy condition and that needs to be looked at. We need to look at it in the broader context of how we can manage that sector of the fishing economy and make it better and more productive for the people involved in it. That is a bigger debate and something the committee might look at. In consultation with the sector we might make proposals to make the sector more viable and sustainable in the long term.

I have heard what the witnesses have said and I absolutely concur with every word because I have seen it first-hand on the ground. I know the difficulties fishermen are experiencing. I know that a small manoeuvre can make things far easier. If the money was put upfront so that people could buy their fishing gear and go back fishing, it would be a huge help.

From meeting fishermen around the coast I am well acquainted with the difficulties they have in trying to access social welfare. If they are tied up for 87 days and cannot access social welfare they are depending on credit from the local shopkeeper or loans from family members or friends - some people have had to go down that road - in order to be able to keep going. There is difficulty with red tape surrounding somebody trying to get money from a community welfare officer or to get a few bob from the social welfare to feed a family. I know all of that and it is a huge problem.

I do not believe that any of us from the coastal community have ever experienced the weather we had from the end of the second week of December up to four weeks ago. There were three storms and I believe 40 days with winds of 40 knots or more, as outlined in the presentation. That tells its own story. We will need to try to up our game to ensure fishermen get some hope and that funding is made available so that they can purchase the gear necessary to go back fishing.

Thomas Pringle (Donegal South West, Independent)
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I thank the witnesses for their presentations. Listening to those presentations reminded me of the meetings we had last year on the fodder crisis. There was no space to move in this room for Members and media presence. In an equally big crisis if not worse within the inshore fishing fleet, we see how little attention it is getting, which is quite stark given the impact the recent weather conditions have had on the inshore fishing fleet. To a certain extent as a Member I should take some of the blame for that because we may not have been vociferous enough in raising the issue.

The presentations have made clear how inadequate the compensation scheme offered by the Minister is. It is good to hear that at first hand. It gives the committee ammunition to make representations to the Department after the meeting to try to secure changes to it. The representatives of the Federation of Irish Fishermen have referred to the potential use of the EMFF for compensation. The line fed by Ministers is that the amount of damage done by the storms did not meet the threshold to trigger European funding. However, in this scheme that threshold does not apply. We need to ensure the Department gets in there straightaway to try to find ways to access that fund. There may be a co-funding element which may need to be sorted out. However, if the will is there, the way will be found very easily. For many years I believe fishermen have been missing the will at official level to deal with these problems.

We will probably make contact with the Department after this meeting to raise these issues. We certainly have ammunition that strengthens our argument in making a case to it. I hope we can get a quick reaction to provide money upfront and to alter the levels of compensation. In our later work we will be dealing with the issues of the pot limits and access to social welfare. We will see all the witnesses then in that regard. Hopefully we will be able to get a resolution to this issue in itself.

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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Tá brón orm go raibh mé déanach. I am sorry I was late; I was unavoidably detained.

Ba mhaith liom díriú ar rud amháin ar an gcéad dul síos. Tá sé ráite ag an Aire go bhfuil €1.5 milliún ar fáil don scéim. The Minister has said he has €1.5 million available. He has said that no money has been paid out and 150 applications have come in. Those 150 applications represent €350,000, taking his average figure of €2,400 per head. Some will get €100, some will get €75, some will get €12 and some will get €24. When it is all stacked up it comes to somewhere between €300,000 and €350,000.

As I see it there are two big issues and I would like to get the witnesses' steer on this. In reality the Minister will not rip the whole book up and start all over again. One is the existing scheme for shrimp fishermen and lobster fishermen. Does that need to be reopened without a condition for the lobster people to produce receipts? Does the grant aid need to be increased from 40%? Is the pot limit at 50 and 100 too low? I am consciously not working in the wider scene. In my view the wider scene is really important, but it is an issue for another day. I just wish to focus on the lobster and shrimp case. The Minister has a scheme and there are obvious flaws in the scheme because the uptake is not what he anticipated given that he provided four times the money that has been taken up.

I am very sorry to have been late and I know things have been said. However, I do not see it covered specifically in the documentation before me, which I understand covers the presentations. Would that make a significant difference to that scheme within the terms of that scheme and what the Minister has indicated he is willing to do? He has already admitted with the shrimp pots that he does not need receipts for the old ones. I am not talking about the new ones. From talking to people living along the coast I hear that 40% is way too small and that the number limits are way too small.

In the very short term there is another bigger issue, which is the loss of earnings for those who would have been fishing in that period and were not fishing.

There is a case to be made for these fishermen because the way the social welfare system works for those out of work for so long is unsustainable. Their income from the better times in the year is spread evenly throughout the entire year although they may be out of work for three or four months.

In such situations as we have today my gut instinct is to focus on short-term achievables. If the committee does not do so the short-term schemes will not be put right, the €1.5 million will not be spent and we will not move on to the bigger issues. Huge issues exist which have been very well articulated in newspapers and by my colleagues. These need to be tackled. We have seen over the years that there is a very small number of Teachtaí agus Seanadóirí go bhfuil aon spéis acu sa scéal seo.

The committee has done much work on coastal communities and we are committed to the wider issue of how to sustain them, but there is an immediate job in hand with regard to what is achievable and realistic and would, if we brought it to the Minister, bring some relief. We must maximise our chance of having some success because a whole lot of nothing is still nothing while a little bit of something is still something. This is the equation on which I would like the thoughts of the witnesses. Does one throw the kitchen sink at it and come back with nothing, or does one accept the Minister has set parameters within which are issues which are too tight and we ask whether they can be loosened? This would still be within the €1.5 million budget and would mean it would be spent.

The other issue I raised is between the Department of Social Protection and the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine. Loss of income for bigger boats which would have been fishing during the period is a crucial issue. Rather than trying to solve the entire fishing industry, getting nothing and leaving behind €1.2 million which was put on the table we could focus on these two issues.

Trevor Ó Clochartaigh (Sinn Fein)
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Ní labhróidh mé ar feadh i bhfad. Gabhaim buíochas leis an finnéithe as ucht an cur i láthair. I thank the witnesses for their presentations. I do not sit on the committee full-time but I come in as much as possible. I am familiar with the issues in Connemara and we have met fishermen. We called for a compensation and support scheme but when we saw the pot scheme coming through we did not think it would do the business or solve the problem. It was an Elastoplast to give the appearance something was being done but it is the wrong medicine.

I support most of what has been stated by other speakers. It is important the €1.5 million is re-examined by the Minister. We support calls for this and will continue do so. The report launched in Inis Óirr recently shows the commitment of the committee to work with the industry. The inshore fishery industry has been the poor relative for many years and it is important the Government focuses on it. The Commission for the Economic Development of Rural Areas, CEDRA, report is very light on detail on the fishing industry although it does mention it so the committee should examine it and make submissions to ensure more focus on inshore fishermen. Although consultations on the report are complete, there will be an ongoing process. I support wholeheartedly what has already been suggested. The committee should fully support all of the proposals put forward.

Noel Harrington (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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I am not a full-time member of the committee but I am very pleased to have listened to the presentations from the inshore fishers. I live in Castletownbere and I have already heard in the west Cork area much of what the witnesses stated. I support Deputy Ferris's proposal to ask the Minister and the Department to re-evaluate the situation, initially, as Deputy Ó Cuív stated, and how to maximise compensation to those entitled to it within the very narrow confines of the scheme. I was very disappointed when I heard last weekend of the poor take-up of the scheme. I could not believe it even though I knew some fishermen were not affected and could not qualify because they had not lost gear as they had taken it in and stowed it. Many others had lost far more gear than would have been covered by the maximum amount of compensation allowed under the scheme.

I have become aware that some people missed the deadline. I sent out an application form to a fisherman yesterday in the vain hope if he sent it back it might be considered. Perhaps the Department might examine this. Perhaps there are people out there who missed the deadline. It was advertised on the BIM website and in publications but people were not contacted directly by the Department. Some people may have missed out through no fault of their own.

Many of the presentations were very strong on some of the long-term issues regarding sustainable fishing and trying to make a living, particularly for the inshore fleet. Almost 80% of our entire register is under 15 m and it is fragmented. We must be honest about this. It is very difficult to get a cohesive inshore fleet message from Carlingford around to Fanad in the Republic. It is very difficult to have one voice. We have been trying, and the Chairman has done tremendous work on the report in which it was identified as a big problem. It is an issue for the industry but it should also be addressed by the authorities with the assistance of the industry. Freedom of association is enshrined in the Constitution, and people can make whatever associations they wish, but issues such as this need focus.

We hear about climate change and we must assume the events we had this winter will become more and more prevalent. Deputy Ó Cuív mentioned the 1991 scheme. Perhaps in ten years' time we will be discussing another big blow after which people will be left without an income for three months. This is not desirable. We must have a built-in system so compensation or an alleviation measure for the fleet does not come down to the whims of a particular Minister, Department, official or policy. This touches on what Deputy Pringle spoke about, which is a lack of understanding. Many people who do not understand will state the industry is here again whining, cribbing and moaning like farmers looking for something. I can almost guarantee this is true of some people watching and some of those on social media. It is not understood that if one is not fishing, catching or landing one is not earning but spending. One receives no compensation, no single farm payment and no monthly cheque. On top of this, because the vast majority are self-employed they have no entitlement to social protection. This is not very well understood. The committee has tried to highlight it but it cannot be emphasised enough. I want to take this opportunity to hammer home the point. Families have not seen one cent of income for two or three months because they are weather-bound.

That must be emphasised.

There are other issues for debate in a broader scheme, such as days at sea, how one can manage a fishery or how one can manage timings, opening and closing seasons and the like. That is possibly a debate for another day, but it is inevitable and must happen. In times when there are challenging quotas, for example, and I realise that is more related to the offshore sector, or quotas are diminishing or where, at best, the price has been the same as it was 20 years ago for landing the same fish, we must look at a greater value for that catch or added value. Bringing it to the market in a more sophisticated way might help, but again that is a debate for another day.

With regard to the terms of this particular scheme, it is well worth referring back to the Minister on whether he can increase the envelope. I know some fishermen who have lost hundreds of pots. It is far more than the €2,500 compensation package would deliver. This is only the thin end of a much larger debate for the entire fishing sector, not just the inshore sector but all the different sectors in the industry. It does not get the same air time or attention as other industries and that has been detrimental to the industry. However, in the inshore sector one is depending on a group from within one's own 20 or 30 mile radius to form an association, so it is difficult.

I welcome further debate on it and further suggestions on how this scheme could be addressed.

Andrew Doyle (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I thank members for their contributions. While there might not be many members, they are all well informed. They are people who understand.

I am going to do something a little unusual from the committee's point of view. Before I go back to the witnesses the members of the committee have identified two issues in particular that Deputies should immediately agree to, and we need not wait to do it if members agree. On the review of the rules governing the existing scheme, we should write to the Minister immediately, given the fact that there is a 20% uptake of the scheme. Notwithstanding the fact that there is a request for further compensation, we should first exhaust the one that is there.

The second matter is contained in our report. It is probably the only action in the shorter term contained in the report produced by the sub-committee. It was with regard to how fishermen are treated for the purpose of social welfare entitlements as self-employed people. There is no understanding of the specific challenges in the fishing community's work in that regard. There is no point in waiting until the end of the tax year to seek a tax rebate when one must live today as a self-employed person. The social welfare Department must examine this with a specific emphasis on it. I have not read the CEDRA report but I am sure if it was done in the spirit in which it was intended, rural, coastal and island communities form part of it. We would hope that the recommendations we produced in our report would feed into CEDRA and how that report will give further regard to coastal communities.

Third, and this has nothing to do with today's meeting, there is a Harnessing Our Ocean Wealth seminar being scheduled for June. The initial one is in Dublin Castle. We already hope the report we produced earlier would feed into that and perhaps some of us could go, as members of the sub-committee, and speak on it and contribute to that seminar. We must maintain the pressure and keep the focus on this sector, if we are serious about rural development and maintaining a socioeconomic model that will work for rural communities.

Is it agreed that we write to the Minister with a view to revisiting the rules governing this scheme and also write to both him and the Minister for Social Protection asking them to urgently review how fishermen and fisherwomen are treated in the social welfare code? Does Deputy Ferris have a suggestion?

Martin Ferris (Kerry North-West Limerick, Sinn Fein)
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I agree with what the Chairman has said, but I believe we should go a little further. The current scheme is just for loss of gear. Some of these fishermen are without an income for 87 days.

Andrew Doyle (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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That is why I referred to the social welfare matter. Is that the most immediate way of dealing with that, rather than a compensation package?

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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The Chairman would not normally allow us to debate what we will do in front of witnesses.

Andrew Doyle (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I would not normally do this and I am being told that perhaps I should not, but it is important that we get an understanding because we might need clarification here. We will only do this for a very brief time.

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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My sense is that we must analyse hard-headedly what is achievable. In other words, one should ask in a way that maximises one's chance of achieving something. Park the income issue for the moment and look at the narrow scheme the Minister introduced. He said it is €1.5 million and it comes out of current resources. I would imagine that he will not go back to the Cabinet for money until he spends the €1.5 million. I say this as a member of the Opposition. Therefore, the first challenge is how to tweak the scheme within the parameters that have been set to at least draw down the €1.5 million. If we end up at the end of this year and it is still €337,000, we will wonder why we did not just confine ourselves and get what was on the table, the €1.5 million that the Minister found in his Department to give.

In that regard, the first barrier I discovered was that the lobster men do not have receipts for the original pots. That is why there are only 150 applications. Perhaps in other parts of the country they have receipts, but it is fair to say that many pots were bought on "DoneDeal".ie and in all sorts of different ways. That is quite legitimate, but no receipts were kept over that period. It seems that any scheme to help lobster fishermen with pots, and both we and the witnesses have made the case for them, must get that condition removed. It is not there for the shrimp, so there is a precedent. It is always good to work with a precedent with Departments.

The second issue is that at 1,500 the numbers are too small to make it worth people's while. I recommend to the committee that we increase that number, but not to a point that would put it way above the €1.5 million. If we start doing that we will end up with all of nothing.

Third, the 40% grant is very low grant aid. If one has lost the thing, it is not as if one is buying something new. One is replacing something that was there. If one is buying something new, I would give one a 60% or 40% grant. That is fine, because it is something one never had before. In this case, one is only going to end up with what one had before, so I would say it should be increased.

By taking this minimalist approach, as it were, my sense is that I am not making myself a hero here but giving the witnesses hard-headed advice. I have a good idea of the parameters the Minister laid down in the original document he gave to the committee. I believe that would maximise the chances of at least not leaving €1.2 million behind. It is already on the table but the fishermen cannot get their hands on it because the conditions are too onerous.

Martin Ferris (Kerry North-West Limerick, Sinn Fein)
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I do not disagree with Deputy Ó Cuív. However, there is only a take-up of 151. There are many more than 151 people who lost their pots. They cannot apply because they are paid after they purchase and on the receipts.

How can one buy lots of pots when one has not got the money? That is the problem. One can juggle the figures any way one wants. The stumbling block is where one does not have the money upfront to purchase the pots or whatever one needs. A sum of €1.5 million was made available, which was inadequate from the start, but I thought that there would have been a great up-take of the funding. I spoke to lads this morning and they said that a lot of people were interested in the scheme but could not avail of it because they did not have the money to buy the pots. We need to look at that matter.

Andrew Doyle (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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That is another point. The issues are no receipts, upping the grant aid and having an upper limit on the pots.

Martin Ferris (Kerry North-West Limerick, Sinn Fein)
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Yes.

Andrew Doyle (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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Perhaps we could employ a system that sought proof of how the money was used and insisted one had to supply a receipt. We can discuss the matter in private.

Ms Eibhlín O'Sullivan:

I was going to make the same point. From my perspective, and my questioning of people, that is one of the biggest reasons people have not applied for the scheme. There have been 151 applications but that does not mean there will be 151 grant payments. I give, as an example, one of my members, who is here with us today. Mr. Healy made an application and he can tell us about it in a minute. He knows that he will not be able to fulfil the requirements of the application because he cannot access finance to buy the pots in order to claim the grant payment afterwards. That is why FIF, in its paper, highlighted both the UK and the Northern Ireland schemes. For example, the Northern Ireland scheme provides a flat payment regardless of whether one is inshore, offshore or whatever and the payment is linked to the size of vessel. One does not have to produce receipts either because they know that people will have to buy gear. We have all made the same point here today. Unfortunately, because people do not have gear, have suffered damage to their boat or have had no income for the past three or four months and cannot replace the gear, they cannot go fishing.

I appreciate the suggestions to improve the scheme made by Deputy Ó Cuív. I also appreciate the points made by the Chairman and Deputy Ferris about removing the requirement to spend the money upfront. Their suggestions would be very useful and would probably greatly increase interest in the scheme.

Not to put too fine a point on it, and this is a message that I have tried to hammer home - I apologise to the various Deputies around the table who have heard from me over the past couple of months - there is European maritime fisheries funding available. MEPs, the Commission and, of all people, Maria Damanaki, have confirmed that funding is available under the EMFF which should hopefully be in place in June or July of this year but can be backdated to the start of the year.

I wish to make an important point. Member states are working on their operational programmes which they had to develop to administer these funds. If they do not allow for the possibility of using the money, for such purposes as compensation for storm events, they will not be able to remedy the matter afterwards. That is why it is very important that the matter is included in Ireland's operational programme and this meeting is as good an opportunity as any to make that point.

I shall briefly hand over to Mr. Healy and ask him to explain why he made an application which, more than likely, will not lead to him receiving cash from the compensation scheme.

Mr. Ciarán Healy:

I live in and fish in Crosshaven, County Cork. I shall outline my personal losses. Due to the bad weather I lost all of my 300 crab pots and 243 of my 270 shrimp pots, including ropes and buoys. I did find a few bits of broken equipment on the shore afterwards. If I were to replace the equipment it would cost me €33,000 at last year's prices. I need not say it but I do not have access to anywhere near that amount of money.

I subscribed to the scheme put forward by the Minister even though I know, in my heart and soul, that it will not help me very much. He is offering 40% of the cost of 50 pots after I spend the remaining 60% but I do not have the money. To add to my misfortune, in the last throes of the hurricane force winds my boat broke free from the pier in Crosshaven and collided with two other boats. To cut a long story short, the cost of the damage was mostly paid by my insurance company but the outlook for the next premium is almost €15,000, with the first €2,200 excess provided by me.

I am 36 years fishing this year and for the past six years I have fished single-handed. Almost every penny of my earnings from fishing is spent locally and the bulk of it, outside of gear, is spent within four miles of the pier in Crosshaven. Every year my local Centra shop gets slightly over €2,000 and my local co-op gets paid €1,000 or thereabouts for lubricant oil and hydraulic oil. I also buy diesel from a local supplier who was born and reared in Crosshaven. I know that oil does not come from under the ground in Crosshaven but I use a local supplier whom I pay €12,000, give or take, each year. I also buy my gear supplies from two Irish suppliers. They must import some of the equipment from abroad but they employ people in this country. Finally, I rig all of my own nets, partly because I have no more pots to play with. I could not afford to travel here today but the producers' organisation is paying for it. I have cancelled my pension and, to be honest, I do not know where else I can go. This is my last throw of the dice. I hope that I have given a personal picture on what my colleagues here have explained. Are there any more questions?

Andrew Doyle (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I thank Mr. Healy for his comments and I know his position is difficult. Does anyone else wish to comment?

Mr. John Ó Conghaile:

Tá mé ag labhairt thar ceann Íascairí Intíre Cois Cladach na hÉireann. Chuaigh mé ag iascaireacht nuair a bhí mé deich mbliana d'aois. Tá 50 bliain caite agam ar an bhfarraige. Chuaigh an iascaireacht síos ó ghlúin go glúin chugam. Tá sé tagtha anois ag an am nuair nach mbeidh mé in ann aon iascaireacht eile a dhéanamh. Tháinig foirmeacha amach le líonadh. Bhí orm dul trí scór míle ó mó gheata le n-iad a fháil síneáilte. Ní raibh na páipéirí a thaispeáin gur íoc mé as mo chuid potaí agam le n-iad a chur isteach. Iarraim oraibh mar choiste go gcuirfí cúpla mí eile leis na foirmeacha seo a chur isteach.

My name is Seán Connolly and I am from the inshore fishermen organisation. I was born on an island like the lads here and I am fishing for over 50 years. In my area there was no secondary school or anything so the only choice was to go fishing or take the white boat to London or wherever.

The industry has become very hard for us now. We received forms the other day to fill in but I must travel 60 miles to a solicitor in order to get the form signed, which will cost a lot of money. I buy my pots up Donegal way but I have no dockets for them. When I bought my pots I left the dockets in my van which was ruined when the sea came in on top of it. My dockets and all are gone. I also lost all of my pots off the pier.

I do not fish in winter because it does a lot of damage. When I started fishing I had 50 pots and could earn a week's wages which I saved in order to keep me going in winter. Now boats around me fish 1,000 or 1,500 pots in order to catch the same amount of fish but the fish are not there. Five or six years ago I was fishing about 300 pots and got about ten boxes of lobsters. Last year I reduced my number of pots down to 200. I caught a box of lobsters every week which amounted to about €200, which did not leave me with much after baits, petrol and everything was paid for. There is nothing else to do in my area so I have to keep on fishing.

I fish shrimps and velvets and I think managing must come into inshore fishing. Every other type of fishing has gone such as dogfish, salmon, and all of the other kinds of fishing that we did, including bask fishing down south. Everybody is now fishing lobsters so there is pressure on the lobster population at the moment.

I do not think that the Government applied for moneys from the EU Solidarity Fund. About an hour ago I spoke to an MEP who told me that nobody applied for money from it to compensate fishermen. He said that the whitefish small trawlers in Rossaveal had not been fishing for months before Christmas. Therefore, they have not earned a penny and are in trouble. The small fishermen are in trouble. There are no jobs in my area and it has no factories. There is nothing only the shore around to make a living from. Now we are being told that we cannot cut seaweed, pick winkles and so on. We kept the Irish language going in our area and we have kept everything going. If nothing is done everyone will soon be out of fishing. Something must be done for small fishermen. Perhaps the date for the submission of application forms could be extended and we could get more money for the fishermen.

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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Let us put money on this. If we take Mr. Healy's situation, where he is entitled to 50 shrimp pots at €12 each, it amounts to €600. We see the same thing in agricultural schemes where there is a lot of hassle and little money. People walk past it and say that it is better to buy them and to forget about it. If that is changed to a maximum of 200 pots at €18, it amounts to €3,600. One may say this is no good against €30,000 involved in the boats but if I told someone a cheque of €3,600 was in O'Connell Street to be collected, he or she would be down in a shot. I keep coming back to working within the parameters. How many fishermen made a loss around the coast? Are we talking about 1,000?

Mr. Seán O'Donoghue:

About 1,000.

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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Providing €10,000 to each amounts to €10 million. If I thought there was a snowball's chance in hell of getting €10 million from the Minister, I would be the first person to pound down his door. If he is doing it out of the current budget, we will not get €10 million if we ask for it but there is €1.5 million on the table and we are not even taking it. What are the biggest things we could tweak? We will take responsibility. Is it the receipt system, the limit on the number of pots, or the system of cash upfront and the receipts later? I suspect it is a mixture of all. In the case of some people, the cash is not the hardest problem and other people are strapped for cash. It is useful for us because we must undertake private deliberations on this to have some sense, within those parameters, of the biggest barriers to people applying for what is on the table, €1.5 million.

Mr. Pat Mullins:

I agree with what the Deputy is saying. The reason we are here is to deal with compensation packages. We could be here for the rest of our lives talking about fisheries in general but we must deal with this issue first and foremost. Is the sum of €1.5 million written in stone or can it not be tweaked and increased?

Andrew Doyle (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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The first thing to do is to make sure it is all accounted for and the way to do that is to make sure the system is user-friendly.

Mr. Seán O'Donoghue:

What Deputy Ó Cúiv says is correct but if there is only an 8% uptake, there must be a fundamental flaw in the system. One of the fundamental flaws in the system is that money upfront is a major issue. Combining those with other suggestions, such as increasing the pot limits, is a great idea. The receipt system is a major issue. People must be able to get over the idea of financing upfront. It must be examined. We went to great lengths to get the meteorological data to show this was an extreme weather situation. We must take exceptional measures to do something about this. Otherwise, many people will be in financial hardship and some will be in bankruptcy. There is no question about it. While €1.5 million is available, the European maritime and fisheries fund has not been tapped. Unlike the larger fund, there is no prerequisite that people must spend a certain amount. At the moment, it is not legally there but it could be fast tracked. We could accept that we will not get €10 million but we should not set our sights on €1.5 million. This goes for whitefish people as most of them have only had a few days work in three months. There is no social welfare or PRSI system. The system is not fit for purpose. The P rate of social welfare is as good as useless and the fish assist scheme is crazy. People must sell boats in order to claim payment under the scheme. It is madness. The most immediate thing is that the existing scheme is not fit for purpose. It must be changed and we must tap into European funds so that we can broaden it and bring other people into play. It must be done quickly.

Mr. Ciarán Healy:

Deputy Ó Cuív mentions €10,000. Being a constituent of the Minister, I met him and when he admitted some cases were extreme, I suggested that they should be dealt with in an exceptional manner. This should not be lumped in with the rest. I suggested that he fully fund 150 of the smallest pots - a 22 inch crab or a lobster pot. Along with ropes, this would come to approximately €9,000. If he delivered them to me on Monday, I would be making money from landing a catch on those pots by the weekend. I could top that up with nets I could rig myself and I could forget about shrimp pots. With these nets, pots and pollock boards, there are cheaper ways to fish using less expensive gear. This is some of the funding for shrimp pots in a season and a fellow could pick himself up.

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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We need to get details on the type of equipment, the amount, the level of the grant, the maximum and so on. When the sums have been done and the receipts are produced, people must figure out in their heads what is realistic, as if they are going to the fair to sell or buy an animal. The Chairman said very clearly that we will pursue the social welfare issue. This applies to those who are out of fishing. We should also ask the Minister to pursue all European sources of funding. It is a fair point and this must be pursued. There is a point about live horse and get grass because Europe can be slow.

Andrew Doyle (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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Mr. O'Donoghue made a point about a technical agreement that can be fast tracked. Is he suggesting the agreement has not been ratified?

Mr. Seán O'Donoghue:

The Parliament and the fisheries Council of Ministers have agreed on the text but it has not been published in theOfficial Journal of the European Union. This is unlikely to be done for another two or three months. There will not be any change in the text and the provision for emergency aid specifically refers to adverse climatic events. We can justify this on the basis of adverse climatic events.

Andrew Doyle (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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If we put in a request, or suggest that we should tap the fund, we must not get a response that it is impossible. We need to be sure of our ground before we make a submission.

Mr. Seán O'Donoghue:

In our submission, we suggest that it be fast tracked.

We know it is going to happen. The legal requirements have not yet been met. If he needs a further €1 million or €1.5 million to make the scheme viable in any way, he could find it in this fund without having to seek Exchequer funding.

Thomas Pringle (Donegal South West, Independent)
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As I understand it, the Department could be drafting the operational programme at the minute.

Andrew Doyle (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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That may or may not be the case.

Thomas Pringle (Donegal South West, Independent)
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This could be included in the operational programme.

Andrew Doyle (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I am not the most familiar with the fisheries section. I am trying to get my head around this.

Thomas Pringle (Donegal South West, Independent)
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The key thing would be to get it into the operational programme now.

Andrew Doyle (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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Okay. I understand that.

Ms Eibhlín O'Sullivan:

That is the point I was making a while ago. The Department is drafting the operational programme. It has to be completed by June. If this is not included, we will not have recourse to this funding. That is why it is very important.

I would like to pick up on the point made by Mr. O'Donoghue. The legislation is there. Unfortunately - this is the way the EU works - it has to be translated into all the member states' languages. This is happening at the moment, but it takes time. The point we are making is that is it can be fast-tracked. The UK and Northern Ireland have decided to go ahead and provide the funding. As I mentioned earlier, Commissioner Damanaki made it clear in her statement that this legislation can be used for these precise purposes, in which there have been economic losses as a result of adverse climatic events. Up to 100% funding can be provided. It would be remiss of us not to utilise this opportunity. I understand the Minister's point that the fund is technically not yet in place. That is true today, but the fund will be in place in a matter of weeks. If we miss this opportunity, we will not have another one for a number of years.

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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The Minister might say to us that he cannot do it backwards for this year. If he agreed to put it in, it would be there for every other year of the-----

Mr. Seán O'Donoghue:

The beauty of this scheme is that it can be backdated to 1 January. December could not be taken into account, but January and February could be. Two thirds of the bad weather could be taken into account.

Mr. Trevor McHale:

I know of a man in Inis Oírr who lost his small boat. He had no insurance. He lost all his pots. He cannot afford to buy a new boat. He is at a loss. He is not the only person in such circumstances.

Andrew Doyle (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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He is not the only person without insurance.

Mr. Trevor McHale:

I am sure that is the case.

Mr. Gerry Sweeney:

I would like to speak about the scope of the scheme. There are a few variations among people who fish for shrimp and people who put out lobster pots. Some people do both. Reference was made to the need to increase the numbers on the current scheme. That is vital for some people. Some people have the benefit of drawing from both schemes, while some people have the benefit of drawing from just one scheme. The increase is vital along with the grant.

Andrew Doyle (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I thank the witnesses for taking the time to make the long trip to this meeting. We ran this meeting in an unconventional way to facilitate interaction between the members of the committee and the representatives of the fishing industry. We are keen to get an idea of how we can help to make the scheme work and deal with some other issues. With the agreement of members, I propose that we go into private session to decide what we will do next. Normally, we would adjourn. As we are not sitting next week, it is important for us to agree a couple of things today. If we have to reconvene on Thursday morning to finalise and sign off on them, we will do so. I thank all the witnesses for attending today's meeting and making their presentations. I hope it is of some comfort to the representatives of the various fishing communities that we are trying to understand their circumstances and be of assistance to them. That is what the committee is here to do. We hope to be able to make representations to the relevant Ministers and the other powers-that-be with the aim of trying to resolve the short-term and medium-term difficulties. I understand that the first conference of the Harnessing our Ocean Wealth initiative will take place on Wednesday, 18 June at The Printworks in Dublin Castle. Further details will be available at ouroceanwealth.iein approximately two weeks. That information became available to us during the meeting. I thank the witnesses again.