Ms Caroline Simons:

On the earlier suggestion that the law was not being changed by the proposed Bill, what the Bill will do, if one likes, is activate the X test. It may not change the law but the law has not actively been practised in terms of medical practice. The Bill will change medical practice and abandon the two patient model, which has been used. Having heard Deputy English being congratulated on Friday, and as I know myself, there may be even more than two patients in a pregnancy. The two patient model will go out the window if the legislation is implemented. As I stated in January, doctors, in this case psychiatrists, will for the first time be faced with a request for abortion to treat suicidal intent or ideation. They would not have considered abortion a treatment previously and still do not appear to consider a treatment. Obstetricians will also be asked to carry out terminations of pregnancy on physically healthy women. These are profound changes in the practice of medicine in Ireland.

On whether we believe the passing of the Bill will result in widespread abortion, while we cannot look into crystal balls, it would be very foolish not to have regard to what has occurred in other jurisdictions where abortion has been introduced on grounds similar to those provided for here. I am already hearing from lawyers in the United Kingdom where abortion is allowed on the basis of risk to a woman's mental health. Suicide brings something that is incapable of prediction. As we have been told by psychiatrists, abortion is not a treatment. This legislation is potentially wider than that in place in the UK but we will have to wait and see. I will not predict in the matter.

Does the legislation legalise the killing of babies? There is a very fair argument to be made that this is something that is understood by the breadth of the X case decision. Again, it would be unrealistic of us not to look at what it is a woman wants when she says she is suicidal and wants an abortion. There is certainly enough ground in the X case and the heads of the Bill to allow her to look forward to that.

On Senator Walsh's question as to whether the psychiatrist would be obliged to certify for an abortion, as psychiatrists have stated in recent days, they would err on the side of caution. Where there is nothing else they can offer and the woman is competent and perfectly entitled to refuse what they are offering, they would be in difficulty in relation to this.