Mr. Seamus McCarthy:

My office has not looked at the detail of the financial models that would underpin PPPs in the local authority area because I obviously do not have a remit in that regard. We have looked at the financial models which are complex for other projects such as the courts complex near the Phoenix Park and the convention centre. In these models one will see a profit element built into the costings for the public-private partnership side, often including developer costs and so on. Therefore, the model is a construct before the off. There would normally be an assessment, about which the committee would probably be able to talk to the National Development Finance Agency, of whether the cost elements built in were reasonable and seen to be so. This should be properly weighed against the risks the private partner is taking. What we do not and never can have a sense of is that as a purchaser of the project, one does not know what the profit outturn is for the developer. I do not think there is any way one can know this. One can re-examine what one thinks it should have cost when one sees how the project has unfolded. One can re-do the value for money model, but one cannot know what are the private sector costs or whether it has made the profit included in the model, or more, or, in fact, whether it could have made losses. I think there have been some losses in the United Kingdom. Therefore, there is an element of risk for their profitability.