Tom Clonan (Independent)
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I thank the Minister of State for coming along today. He can see from my Commencement matter that these are very grave matters, and they revolve around several issues.

First and foremost is the potential rape and sexual assault of children in HSE West and North-West, that is, Sligo, Leitrim, Roscommon and Donegal. I have raised these issues in the health committee, on the floor of this House during the Order of Business and in previous Commencement matters, and no meaningful action has been taken.

This issue refers to three people of conscience in the HSE; three fine clinicians who reached out to me almost two years ago, and whom I have met in Carrick-on-Shannon and Sligo. They told me one of them was informed of a child sexual assault or the potential for one - even a rape of a child - and under the guidelines, this requires mandatory reporting, so they set about reporting it to An Garda Síochána and Tusla. However, they then experienced reprisal, harassment and bullying in the workplace from a senior manager who directed them not to report their concerns.

Not reporting their concerns is a criminal offence. For a senior manager to instruct, direct or advise these clinicians not to make this report is also a criminal offence, is it not? No disciplinary process has been taken against that individual and there has been no investigation into that person. The reason I am here today is because I met those three clinicians again and there was another similar incident earlier this year - a second time.

A woman came into the clinic and expressed concerns - and I am sorry to use this language here - that she had discovered her spouse - her husband - was accessing child pornography images and films through his devices. These are crime scenes. This is the sexual abuse and rape of children. She reported this and her concerns about children in the family and neighbouring children but again, when they reported this, there was push-back from the same management team to say they should not be reporting this. It was even suggested that one of these clinicians had a mental disorder.

They raised these concerns because they are people of conscience and they have great moral courage, notwithstanding the reprisal and intimidation they have experienced. I have seen the email exchanges between this individual and these three clinicians. It is appalling; you could not make it up. However, as this is a very grave and dark thing, they raised these concerns by way of protected disclosures in February 2025. Here we are, 18 months later, and no action has been properly taken. Those protected disclosures have not been processed about a child safety issue.Are the people of Donegal, Sligo, Leitrim and Roscommon happy that their children are left in an environment where grave concerns - criminal concerns - are raised and, by way of the processes set out, no meaningful action is taken?

Some of the oft-repeated questions in politics are when people found out and, when they did, what they did about it. I raised this by way of Commencement matter and on the Order of Business last year and in October I informed the regional executive officer of HSE West and North-West about this. I reminded him of it. Therefore, today I am at the end of my tether. I have raised serious issues in this country, about sexual assault and rape of female soldiers, for example, and now a tribunal is sitting up in Smithfield at huge expense to the taxpayer. It is Tom Clonan for slow learners. I raised all those issues 25 years ago and here I am. George Gibney is up in the courts waiting to be sentenced. It took, as Senator Boyhan said here yesterday, 50 years for his paedophilia and abuse to be reckoned with. What are we going to do in HSE West and North-West?

Frank Feighan (Sligo-Leitrim, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Senator for raising this important matter in the House. I am taking this Commencement matter on behalf of the Minister for Health, Deputy Carroll MacNeill.

I am aware of the issues raised by the Senator. He will appreciate that neither I nor the HSE can comment on any individual case. The HSE, as a matter of routine, rigorously investigates any allegations of the nature made in this case and notifies all appropriate agencies and individuals. I understand that HSE West and North-West is progressing an independent external review under the HSE incident management framework of 2020 relating to a counselling service in the north west. This review was initiated following concerns raised in relation to children first mandatory reporting. The company has examined a number of records from the counselling service. These have been subject to an agreed review process in line with the terms of reference. The independent company has completed the first and second review of documentation provided by the HSE within the agreed timeframe. Recently, the company sought further records from the HSE, which is in the process of compiling them. The HSE advises that it has engaged with staff directly in relation to this process, in line with the incident management framework.

I understand that while the HSE has been actively working on this issue from the outset, the formal review process took longer than anticipated to commence owing to its complexity. While the HSE regrets the delay to date, it must allow the company to complete its review within the parameters of the terms of reference. Once this review is completed, the HSE will take any required actions to ensure that the findings and recommendations are implemented in full.

Under the Children First Act 2015, there are specific legal obligations for certain staff known as “mandated persons” to report certain information relating to harm of a child to Tusla. This is known as mandatory reporting. The Children First Act 2015 is supported by the Children First National Guidance for the Protection and Welfare of Children of 2017, and the HSE child protection and welfare policy, which sets out the roles, responsibilities and procedures assigned to ensure the effective management of child protection and welfare concerns in the HSE. The HSE is very clear about the obligations of mandated persons. All staff are regularly made aware of the policy and the obligations on mandated staff to report their concerns to Tusla and-or An Garda Síochána, where necessary.

The HSE indicates that, after the relevant therapists wrote to the CEO of the HSE in October 2024 on this matter, the CEO wrote to the health region stating there should be no line management screening of mandated reporting by individual professions and suggested the therapists be advised immediately that they are free to contact Tusla directly. The relevant staff were advised of this. One aspect of the existing HSE child protection and welfare policy indicates that staff should inform their line manager when a concern arises and-or when a concern is reported to Tusla. The purpose of this is for communication; consultation when a staff member is unsure about their concern, particularly staff who are not mandated persons; and for the line manager to ensure that the child protection and welfare reporting procedure is followed correctly. The HSE advises it is not intended to be a screening of a concern or a barrier to reporting. The HSE policy clearly states that when there is disagreement about the threshold of concern, either party can seek further consultation with Tusla and that if people remain concerned, they should report this concern to Tusla and-or An Garda Síochána.

The policy also states that a mandated person cannot delegate their responsibility to report. Despite these safeguards, unfortunately, serious cases of this nature can arise, albeit infrequently, within the health service or elsewhere in society. I, therefore, urge all those who require care now or in the future to seek help without delay, or to continue to engage with services if they are already in the system. Again, I stress that the existing wide range of HSE youth mental health services provides vital care supports to many vulnerable young people and their families each year and make a real difference to achieving recovery.

Chris Andrews (Sinn Fein)
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Before the Senator rises, I welcome Ferns Diocesan Youth Service, FDYS, a group of Traveller women who are guests of Deputy Lawlor. They are welcome. It is important that young women are involved in and engaged with politics, because whether or not they like all the old men, this is where decisions are made. It is important that people engage.

I also welcome another group with Deputy Ó Súilleabháin. They are welcome. I know they will all be well looked after. It is great to see them here. It is important that everyone is here.

Tom Clonan (Independent)
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I thank the Minister of State for reading out the statement on behalf of the Minister, Deputy MacNeill. None of these remarks are directed personally at the Minister of State, but to be honest, ChatGPT could have written that response. In it, the Minister, Deputy MacNeill says she and the HSE cannot comment on individual cases. Then on the second page, she refers at length to this individual case, so they do and do not do so when it suits them. That is a rhetorical device to insulate themselves from responsibility.

There is a serious problem in that area. The Ministers of State, Deputies Feighan and Harkin, and other TDs who are representatives of that area are now aware of it. They should be looking into it. I should not have to go up and down to Carrick-on-Shannon and Sligo on a child protection issue. This should be dealt with with energy and urgency, because all this talk about process is not child-centred. It is administration-centred and it is a classic HSE tactic to cover up, deny and delay grave matters.

I want to know why this particular manager is pushing back on mandatory reporting of child sexual abuse. There are serious questions to be answered here.

I will conclude with this. A moral excuse can be made for theft to save people's lives if they rob some food. A moral rationale can even made for killing in defence of people's own lives. The one thing as a species we have no rationale for - there can be no defence for - is the rape of a child and here we have a manager who says that concerns in this regard should not be reported. I cannot think of a more serious issue that has been brought before this House.

Frank Feighan (Sligo-Leitrim, Fine Gael)
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Again, I thank the Senator for his comments. He raised some serious and important questions, which he wants answers to. While the Department of Children, Disability and Equality holds overall responsibility for the legislative and policy framework under which child protection and welfare services are delivered, monitored, inspected and measured, it is the responsibility of all Departments to ensure children and young people are kept safe while accessing services provided or funded by each Department.

The Senator said this is in the constituency I represent. If he wishes, he can pass the files to me and I will follow it up. This is of a serious nature. It is also the responsibility of all Departments to ensure all staff in the Department and relevant sectors and agencies under their remit are aware of and comply with their obligations under this guidance and relevant legislation.

Again, above all, the safety and welfare of children must remain the overriding consideration, as the Senator said, in all circumstances. The Government expects full adherence to statutory child safeguarding obligations that exist to protect vulnerable young children. These are serious questions and I am happy to assist.