Eileen Lynch (Fine Gael)
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I thank the Minister of State for being with us this morning to discuss this matter, which relates to the potential impact on Ireland of the EU proposal to restrict lead ammunition. The European Commission has proposed a restriction on lead. The matter is before the EU REACH committee, on which Ireland is represented by officials from the Health and Safety Authority and the Department of enterprise.

It is important to note that in December, the Dáil rejected a Bill which sought to ban all forms of fox hunting. Among those opposing the Bill, there was widespread acceptance that farmers and landowners need to have the capacity to protect their livestock and engage in predator and vermin control. This is primarily done through the use of licensed shotguns which, along with rifles, are also used in game hunting and other rural pursuits. What happens if Ireland's more than 140,000 shotgun and rifle owners can no longer use their licensed firearms because appropriate and safe ammunition is not available? That is a very real prospect.

The original proposal from the European Commission envisaged transitioning to an alternative form of ammunition and cited steel shot in this regard. However, it seems that this option would be both dangerous and unsustainable. More than 80% of firearms in Ireland are unlikely to meet the higher standards required to use steel shot, which would make them redundant. There are inherent health and safety concerns relating to ricochets, which would become a major issue when using steel-based ammunition in shotguns and larger rifles near hard surfaces such as stone walls.

There is no proof house or infrastructure in place in Ireland for firearms owners to check the capability and safety of their firearms. In order to get a gun proofed and deemed suitable for steel shot, it must be exported out of Ireland. This would give rise to a cost of €600 and €700 between import costs, couriers and insurance. Despite previous requests, the State has yet to supply this key infrastructure for users and dealers. It is very important that it be provided.

The European Chemicals Agency has been asked to carry out a health and safety assessment on the impact of such a restriction in each country, with the same being asked of the Health and Safety Authority and the Department of enterprise in Ireland. So far, requests in this regard have not been dealt with.

At European level, in light of the ongoing war in Ukraine and the primary focus on rearming in many countries at present, there are concerns that the munitions industry will not have the capacity or incentive to upscale the manufacturing of steel ammunition for rifles and other firearms. If the proposed restriction on lead ammunition goes ahead, it will impact tens of thousands of Irish farmers, hunters and other licensed firearms users, many of whom are based in rural areas. This proposal does not have to proceed. It is interesting that practically all of the eastern European states are against it. Quite a few other large states, including Italy and Germany, are also against the proposal and have many concerns about it.

I am seeking an answer on the lack of clarity regarding the position Ireland is taking. So far, it seems that a debate has not been held. There has been lack of any public consultation or structural engagement with stakeholders in this regard. I would appreciate an update if one is available. While it has been reported that Ireland is supporting a possible compromise, which would not ban the use of lead ammunition but would ban its importation into the EU, this would effectively be banning lead ammunition in any event because most of it comes from outside the Union.I am seeking clarity. There is an EU REACH committee meeting next month. If this question comes up at that meeting, what will be the Irish position? We need a commitment to protect the capacity of licensed shotgun and rifle owners to continue to use their weapons efficiently and, most important, safely.

Alan Dillon (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I thank Senator Eileen Lynch for raising this really important issue in regard to the EU proposal to restrict lead ammunition, mainly in respect of hunting and outdoor sports shooting. I also thank the National Parks and Wildlife Service for its excellent work to date in formulating Ireland's position on this.

I want to make some initial points of clarification. While the EU proposal to restrict lead ammunition is not within the policy remit of the Department of Enterprise, Tourism and Employment, my Department has an administrative co-ordinating role for the REACH committee. It is important to note that the breadth of this proposed restriction spans several Government Departments and agencies, including the Department of Climate, Energy and the Environment, the EPA, the Department of Housing, Local. Government and Heritage, the National Parks and Wildlife Service and the Department of Agriculture, Food and Marine, and also the Department of justice. Officials from my Department continue to circulate to relevant Departments and agencies material received for REACH committee meetings where the agenda includes the draft restrictions on lead in ammunition.

Ireland is represented on the REACH committee meetings for matters within the remit of the Department of Health, the Health and Safety Authority and agency under the aegis of our Department within enterprise, tourism and employment. Our Department has the administrative co-ordinating role and, where the policy remit is not within my Department, as in the case for the proposed restriction on lead ammunition for mainly hunting or sports shooting, officials from the lead policy department for the REACH committee agenda item formulate the Irish position, and they attend and vote on behalf of Ireland. For example, officials from the National Parks and Wildlife Service attended and voted at the REACH committee meeting that dealt with similar restrictions on lead in gunshot on wetlands. The latest proposal is mainly in respect of ammunition for hunting. It is expected that officials from the NPWS will continue to lead in formulating the Ireland position on the draft EU proposal, attend the relevant REACH committee meetings and vote on the latest proposal.

To date, the draft on the proposed restrictions was discussed at confidential REACH committee meetings in February, April, June, October and December. Discussions on this matter are expected to continue at the February REACH committee meeting and potentially for some time into the future, until a draft proposal that is acceptable for the majority of EU member states is arrived at. As the Senator said, there are varying positions in regard to how this will play out over the coming months. There has been no call to date for any member state to call a vote on this matter. We will watch this very closely.

Eileen Lynch (Fine Gael)
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I thank the Minister of State for his reply. However, it seems to have failed to answer the questions that I raised about the potential impact that this vote passing would have here, but also as to whether there is an Irish position. I take the Minister of State's point that this proposal regarding lead ammunition is interdepartmental and affects many different Departments. Maybe it is just not within the Minister of State's authority but lies more with the NPWS. Perhaps the Minister of State could clarify that point. Do we not have a decision or is it currently being formulated? The Minister of State commended the work the NPWS has been doing on this, so I assume that we are heading towards a position if one is not there. It is disappointing that there does not appear to be a position and there has not been consultation. I am taking from that reply that there is no stakeholder consultation in the offing at the moment either. I note that there has been no vote on this on the REACH committees up to date, but that is not to say that there will not be in the future.

Malcolm Noonan (Green Party)
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Before I ask the Minister of State to respond, I had some oversight on this in my previous role. Certainly my understanding at the time, giving direction to the NPWS, was on the ban on use of lead over wetlands. It was quite specific and there was to be stakeholder engagement as far as I am aware.

Alan Dillon (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Senator for her interest and for bringing this into the Chamber this morning. What I can state here today is in regard to the interest and the progress within the EU Commission's proposal on the wide-span ban on lead in ammunition in the context of lead being toxic for human health and the environment. It is important again to stress that I do not have a policy responsibility in respect of the proposal and also I am not in a position here this morning to address the technical aspects of such a restriction. It is important that there is cross-governmental input in regards to the stakeholder engagement. The Department of justice also had an important role in regard to its advice on the implications for firearms legislation in regard to an alternative use. The Senator referred to firearm proofing, which is really important and significant. There is an absence here in Ireland in regards to those 140,000 licences that are currently in existence.

We are looking for further engagement with the NPWS in assessing its proposal from its perspective and indeed from its previous experience working on such an issue over wetlands. It is well informed by its expertise, but also its previous experience of attending and voting within the REACH committee on Ireland's position. The Department of agriculture and others are also best placed in regards to the proposed ban on the activity within their remit. We need a co-ordinated and coherent Irish position on the very diverse perspectives. The Senator has raised many of those concerns here this morning and I am sure many other member states have other perspectives. There will be an updated text on any proposal and we will continue to engage with the EU Commission on the policy position. We will update the House on that.