Victor Boyhan (Independent)
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I thank the Minister of State, Deputy Murnane O'Connor, for coming to the House.

Tom Clonan (Independent)
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I thank the Minister of State for coming here today. I put on the record of this House and Oireachtas the life of Carmel Crehan, who was born on 11 June 1950. She would be 75 years of age if she were alive today. She was born in the St. Patrick's institution, Navan Road, and like tens of thousands of Irish citizens she found herself, through no fault of her own, in a system of unparalleled cruelty and abuse for all of her life. She was fostered out for two years, and then she was sent to St. Teresa's industrial school in Temple Hill, Blackrock. At the age of 11, as an assertive young girl entering her adolescence, the nuns sent her unlawfully to St. Brendan's, an adult mental institution off the North Circular Road. She remained in that institution, subject to its abuse and unlawful detention, until she passed away in 2023.

I welcome our neighbour from Booterstown, Patricia Kavanagh, Carmel's half sister, and her son, Bryan, who was in school with my son. They have both embarked on their careers in law. When I look at Bryan, I see the life that was denied Carmel. Could she not have had a family? Could she not be here today with her son or her grandchildren? These are lives that were obscured, hidden and taken from public view. This was detention and deception at its most grotesque. In fact, these institutions were an archipelago, a system of detention centres like the Gulag across this State, and Patricia, as a great neighbour and friend, brought Carmel's case to my attention. What strikes me as a father and parent, is the love and the advocacy that Patricia has shown to ensure that Carmel's name not be forgotten, along with the other hundreds of young girls and boys that were unlawfully detained and abused in this manner. I know the Cathaoirleach shares my concern about the detention of children in adult mental health settings, that is, the inappropriate and probably unlawful under the UN conventions detention of children in adult centres.In our debates in this House on the mental health reform Bill, the Minister of State has said she is not in a position to legislate against the detention of children inappropriately in adult mental health centres.

I ask that the Department launch an inquiry. Let us quantify the exact number of children and young adolescents affected. Imagine a young girl who needs to be supported at this time in her life being detained unlawfully in this manner. We need to quantify and remember Carmel and all of the other boys and girls who were abused in this way because it is a very important part of that story. I commend Carmel, a survivor of this system, on being an incredible citizen, neighbour and friend, and a great parent, who, like us, is very proud of her children. What happened in 1961 still reverberates today through intergenerational trauma. We must mark and acknowledge it in order to heal.

Jennifer Murnane O'Connor (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Senator for raising this important and sensitive matter concerning the treatment of children who resided in mother and baby homes and the testimonies in relation to unlawful or inappropriate committal to adult mental health institutions. I thank Patricia and Bryan for being here. It is important that we remember Carmel and highlight the concerns that Patricia and the family have brought here today.

I am taking this Commencement matter on behalf of the Minister, Deputy Carroll MacNeill, and the Minister of State, Deputy Mary Butler, who has been in this House several times recently debating the new Mental Health Bill.

I acknowledge the profound hurt and distress that so many survivors of institutional settings continue to carry. The Government remains committed to addressing this legacy with empathy, honesty and accountability, in line with the State’s wider response to the mother and baby homes commission of investigation. Work continues across government through the action plan for survivors of mother and baby homes, led by the Department of Children, Disability and Equality, and my colleague the Minister, Deputy Norma Foley. The Department of Health is an active contributor to this work, and engagement also continues with the special advocate for survivors of institutional abuse.

The Senator’s specific query relates to whether the Minister for Health will order an inquiry into historical placements of children in adult mental health institutions. I just want to address what has been raised with me today. While the Department is not currently aware of evidence of such unlawful or inappropriate placements, any such concern is treated with the utmost seriousness and will be fully considered should relevant information become available. Any consideration of whether an inquiry would be warranted would need to take account of all relevant information.

It is important to note that, prior to the introduction of the Mental Health Act 2001, involuntary admission to psychiatric institutions was governed by the Mental Treatment Act 1945. Under that Act, a person could be admitted and detained as a "temporary patient" or as a "person of unsound mind" following an application, a medical certificate signed by a doctor and a reception order signed by a consultant psychiatrist. The Act also provided that detained individuals had the right to contact the Minister for Health, the inspector of mental hospitals or the President of the High Court. The inspector was further required to visit any patient whose justification for detention he had reason to doubt.

If any individuals believe they may have an historical claim in relation to time spent in a psychiatric institution, they can bring their concerns to the HSE, or they may wish to seek legal advice. I want to highlight that substantial reform of mental health legislation is under way through the new Mental Health Bill 2024, which is currently before the Seanad, led by my colleague the Minister of State, Deputy Mary Butler. This is one of the most significant modernisations of mental health law in the history of the State.It is forward-thinking, person-centred legislation and represents a huge step forward in the vindication of the rights of people accessing mental health services particularly those who are involuntarily admitted and accessing services in acute mental health settings.

The Bill will also expand regulatory powers of the Mental Health Commission to include all community mental health services and teams, including community child and adolescent mental health services, CAMHS, to ensure our patients’ residential and community services are provided with the highest possible quality of care. This work reflects the State's ongoing commitment to ensuring that our mental health legislation continues to evolve in line with the international human rights standards.

Again, I thank the Senator for raising this really important issue.

Tom Clonan (Independent)
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I thank the Minister of State for taking the Commencement matter. I want to let the family know that the Minister of State did actually reach out to me, which does not always happen. The Minister of State, Deputy Butler, was very struck by Carmel’s story and she wanted to convey to them personally her sympathy and her solidarity.

I think there is an opportunity for us to quantify the abuse of children in this manner. The information will be there. For example, in Carmel’s case, she passed away in the care of St. Brendan’s in 2023. It would be a very simple matter for the HSE to do an audit of the records to find out the date of birth and the age of children who were inappropriately placed in this manner.

Again, I want to commend the family on being here and Patricia in particular, because of her loyalty and the very expression of love for her sister that she is here today while we commit all of this to the record of these Houses. We must ensure that, particularly in the context of the intergenerational trauma, we commemorate all those other children and other families and recognise their suffering.

Jennifer Murnane O'Connor (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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This is really important. As the Senator said, the Minister of State, Deputy Butler, was apologetic that she could not come today. She is aware of this. I thank Patricia and Bryan for being here to highlight this. Everybody is affected as we know from anyone we have spoken to who has been in mother and baby homes. It is important that we work together on this new Bill.

Concerns relating to historic inappropriate or unlawful detention of children are among the most serious that can arise in the context of our health and social care services. Such concerns go to the centre of our collective responsibility to safeguard the people who are most vulnerable in our society and require compassion and care in how we respond. The Department is open to examining any information that may assist in establishing the circumstances surrounding the concerns raised by the Senator here today. I assure him and anyone listening who may have personal experience of institutional settings that concerns of this nature, such as the one highlighted here today, are approached with upmost seriousness. Should relevant information be provided, it will receive careful and thorough consideration.

Again, I thank Patricia and Bryan for being here today and highlighting Carmel. It is important that we remember Carmel here today. I thank them and thank the Senator for bringing this case here.

Victor Boyhan (Independent)
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I thank the Minister of State for her very sympathetic response, as always. We greatly appreciate her coming to the House to deal with this matter today. I thank Senator Clonan for raising this matter. It is a very important one. I would like to welcome and thank Patricia. I recognised her the minute I saw her there because we came across each other somewhere else before. Patricia and her son Bryan are very welcome to these Houses. It is a reminder when people come with their lived experience and see this Parliament work in the way it does. It makes it very real and very live and that is particularly so for Patricia and Bryan. I thank them for giving their time, sharing their story and their experience because that helps to make this place – and hopefully, in the long run, this world – a better place.