Seanad debates

Wednesday, 1 March 2023

10:30 am

Photo of Lisa ChambersLisa Chambers (Fianna Fail)
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The Order of Business is No. 1, statements on Project Ireland 2040, to be taken at 1.15 p.m. and to conclude at 2.45 p.m., if not previously concluded, with the time allocated for the opening remarks of the Minister not to exceed ten minutes, for the contributions of group spokespersons not to exceed eight minutes and for those of all other Senator not to exceed five minutes, and time may be shared, and with the Minister to be given not less than ten minutes to reply to debate; No. 2, Historic and Archaeological Heritage Bill 2023 – Committee Stage, to be taken at 2.45 p.m. and to adjourn at 4.45 p.m., if not previously concluded; and No. 3, Work Life Balance and Miscellaneous Provisions Bill 2022 – Report and Final Stages, to be take at 4.45 p.m.

Photo of Martin ConwayMartin Conway (Fine Gael)
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Our group supports the Order of Business as outlined by the Leader. I welcome the Bulgarian ambassador and wish her every joy and happiness in celebrating Bulgaria's national day. I acknowledge the great friendship that exists between our two countries. May it continue and flourish.

It is also great to see the British ambassador, Mr. Johnston, and Mr. Wilmshurst here again. We work very well with them. I am looking forward to a very productive weekend in Belfast at the British-Irish Parliamentary Assembly. The meeting in plenary session that will take place this weekend and into early next week is coming at a critical time, not only for Irish-British relations but also for European, British and Irish relations. The deal outlined in the Windsor Framework is excellent for Northern Ireland. Anything that is good for Northern Ireland is good for Ireland.I encourage all parties to study the deal, to put forward whatever questions they feel need to be asked and to get whatever clarifications are required. I ask them to do so in a timely manner. There is no point in any more delay.

It is reasonable to take time to study these things because they are important but the institutions in Northern Ireland need to be established without delay. The people of Northern Ireland deserve to have their democracy respected, to have their institutions operating and to have normal life resume. The future between our country and the United Kingdom and between the United Kingdom and Europe will prosper and blossom. Nobody here wanted Brexit but we must try to foster the best possible relationships post Brexit. We are doing that in a manner that is friendly, supportive, neighbourly and in the best interests of all our citizens. The Windsor Framework is the result of a lot of hard work and dedication on the part of many people. I acknowledge the role of our Government, the Taoiseach, the Tánaiste and the former Minister for Foreign Affairs in putting together the agreement.

I also raise a matter relating to Clare GAA. I support its initiative to support people who are suffering from addiction problems. There have already been a number of meetings, and more are planned, to engage with these issues head-on. It is a great initiative. It is something the GAA should do and I commend the GAA in Clare for doing it. The GAA nationally should be doing this type of thing. The GAA is a national structure with clubs in every single parish in this country. When it comes to important issues that affect our citizens' health, the GAA has a key role to play. Clare GAA is leading the way and I commend it.

Photo of Malcolm ByrneMalcolm Byrne (Fianna Fail)
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Like my colleagues, I welcome the Bulgarian ambassador. We appreciate the support and solidarity that Bulgaria has given Ireland during the Brexit discussions and we want to extend that friendship. I also welcome the British ambassador and his team. Today is St. David's Day, and one of the countries the ambassador represents is Wales. Unlike Sarah Palin and Russia, I cannot quite see Wales from my house but on a clear day, Wales can be seen from Wexford. It is important in the context of building relationships between the countries on these islands that we explore further the relationship between the constituent nations of Britain and particularly the relationship between Ireland and Wales. I wish everyone a happy St. David's Day. Many close connections between Wexford and Wales are being developed, including new walks linking the saints of Wexford and Wales. They need to be encouraged.

As everyone will be aware, this year marks the 25th anniversary of the Good Friday Agreement. The members of the younger generation are fortunate not to be aware of the Troubles and that dark period of Irish history. It is an appropriate time to consider the establishment on this island of a museum of the Troubles to tell in a balanced way the story of that dark period of Irish life. It would also allow the victims the opportunity to tell their stories. An initiative in Belfast has been calling for the establishment of a museum of the Troubles. It is important so we can remember and learn from our history and what has happened in the past. It is also important to talk about the peace process and the Good Friday Agreement, which was a success of politics. The agreement showed why politics and dialogue are so important. A museum could underpin academic research, act as a centre to encourage peace between the constituent nations of these islands and, most importantly, to remember and learn from what happened in the past.

There are examples in many other countries where there have been dark and difficult chapters. I think of Argentina and Chile. They have been able to tell their stories, particularly the stories of the victims of dark periods. Now that we are 25 years on from the Good Friday Agreement, we can reflect on that period. In the context of our debates around how we mark the Good Friday Agreement, I ask that we move towards the establishment of a museum of the Troubles, perhaps through the shared island unit.

Photo of Sharon KeoganSharon Keogan (Independent)
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I thank the Cathaoirleach for his kind words this morning and for attending a coffee morning in aid of UNICEF. I thank my colleagues and all the team members who helped to raise much-needed funds for UNICEF.

I welcome H.E. Gergana Karadjova. It was lovely to have her, as part of the diplomatic corps, to support UNICEF this morning. It is lovely to have her here celebrating the day for the people of Bulgaria. I visited her country for the first time approximately 33 years ago. I was pregnant with my son at the time but nobody told me I could not ski. I was skiing when I was two or three months pregnant with my son. That was the first of many visits to Bulgaria. It is a country that has progressed enormously in that time. H.E. Johnston and his team are also very welcome.

I call for a debate in this Chamber with the Minister for Health and the World Health Organization CA+ convention. The so-called "pandemic treaty" is currently being constructed by the WHO intergovernmental negotiating body, whose fourth meeting is taking place this week in Geneva.

The stated goal of the WHO CA+ is to achieve greater equity and effectiveness for pandemic prevention, preparedness and response through the fullest national and international co-operation and to this end it will contain both legally and non-legally binding provisions dictating the behaviour of governments party to that treaty. Provisions in the zero draft of the convention include a commitment to ring-fence a percentage of total healthcare expenditure for exclusively pandemic-related matters, as well as the allocation of an as yet unset percentage of gross domestic product to be gifted to the WHO for use in foreign countries. I am not sure whether or not the Minister for Health, Deputy Stephen Donnelly, would say that the instant disappearance of 5% of the healthcare budget would have no impact on services or whether the Minister for Finance, Deputy Michael McGrath, feels that the Exchequer's coffers are bursting at the seams and we simply must offload some of the money or we will have nowhere to put it. Whatever its final provisions, the treaty is a document that will have a significant impact on future governments' approach to health emergencies. Perhaps that is one reason we have heard so little about it. It will only affect future governments and we are not the best at looking past the current election cycle.

I raised this matter in the Chamber on 26 April 2022 and voiced my concern that the Minister for Health had taken it upon himself to voice Ireland's support for this convention when its provisions were entirely unknown and, critically, no protection of the sovereignty of parties to the agreement had been detailed. To my dismay, the raising of this matter was met with allegations of my having given false information and that I was perpetuating untruths. The Cathaoirleach will appreciate that in this Chamber, no Member may impute deliberate falsehoods to another Member and that enforcement of that rule is essential if orderliness is to be maintained and the dignity of the House preserved, as per section 421 of the salient rulings of the Chair. I hope that will be the case as we move forward in the Seanad this year. The Minister should attend the Chamber for a debate on what Ireland would like to see included in the CA+ and, equally as important, what we would not like to see included.

Photo of Niall Ó DonnghaileNiall Ó Donnghaile (Sinn Fein)
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Gabhaim buíochas leis an gCathaoirleach Gníomhach. Is é inniu tús le Seachtain na Gaeilge. Cé go maireann sé 17 lá, tugaimid Seachtain na Gaeilge air, ón bhféile náisiúnta agus idirnáisiúnta a dhéanann ceiliúradh ar ár dteanga dhúchais. Idir seo agus Lá Fhéile Pádraig, tá Conradh na Gaeilge agus grúpaí fud fad na tíre agus an domhain ag moladh do dhaoine úsáid a bhaint as an teanga, más é sin cúpla focal nó más rud é go bhfuil siad líofa.

Today marks the start of Seachtain na Gaeilge. Even though we call it a "seachtain", it lasts for 17 days between now and St. Patrick's Day. I hope in that period we can have statements regarding the Irish language with the relevant Minister. I respectfully and positively encourage colleagues across to the House to do their best to use a couple of focail, or whatever they may have, between now and 17 March.

I also welcome both ambassadors and their guests to the Gallery.I dealt with the conclusion of the negotiation between the British Government and the EU yesterday, so I know the UK ambassador, Ambassador Johnston, in particular will respect that. I do not want to use up my time dealing with it again today, but I dare say he knows where I stand on the issue.

It appears the Minister for Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth still intends to cut the normal rates of pay for victims availing of domestic violence leave by up to 30%, despite public commitments to the contrary. Over recent weeks, Women's Aid, the National Women's Council of Ireland, Fórsa and others have all outlined in great detail why this decision will place victims at significant risk of harm. The Minister for Justice has overall responsibility for co-ordinating the Government's zero tolerance strategy to domestic, sexual and gender-based violence, DSGBV, and he agrees that cutting victims' pay is just wrong. The Minister for Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth's officials confirmed to the Irish Examineron Friday that it was his intention to bring forward amendments to the Bill, due for Report Stage in the Seanad today, to reflect the advice he has received from Women's Aid. In the same newspaper, the Leader was quoted as saying she endorses the view of Women's Aid and that priority should be given to ensuring women's safety, given it is a major step for them to seek help. Unfortunately, no such amendment has been brought forward by the Minister.

Aligning domestic violence leave with sick pay is totally inappropriate. Domestic violence is not, and should not, be viewed through the lens of a normal occurrence in life, nor should political leaders accept it as such. It is not too late for the House to intervene. Government must urgently bring forward an amendment that removes the cut to domestic violence leave pay for victims. That is what the Minister committed to last week. It is what the Minister for Justice and the Minister of State, Deputy Madigan, have also lent their support to, and it reflects, as I understand it, the views expressed by the Leader last week. Most importantly, this is what Women's Aid and others have called for if we are to keep women safe from harm. Given the Government has not brought forward an amendment, I ask the Leader to support an amendment to the Order of Business, which I would like to propose, to the effect that No. 3 not be taken today until such time as that much called-for and crucially important amendment is brought to the Work Life Balance and Miscellaneous Provisions Bill 2022.

Photo of Joe O'ReillyJoe O'Reilly (Fine Gael)
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I welcome Their Excellencies, the UK and Belgian ambassadors, and their teams. I spoke yesterday of the Windsor Framework and am strongly in favour of it. I am delighted with it, as are our colleagues. It merits our support in every practical way. I believe and hope the ordinary people of Northern of Ireland will come out in support of it and that political leadership will too. I know a number of them have, but it is to be hoped all will eventually. We have to work with the situation until that happens. I commend the Taoiseach and the Tánaiste on their work. I spoke yesterday at the meeting of the Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs and Defence specifically about the Tánaiste's role and the work of the former Minister for Foreign Affairs, Deputy Coveney, in the background.

I also commend my colleague, Senator Keogan, on the great initiative she took this morning to help with the dreadful situation in Türkiye and Syria. I am very proud of what she did and was proud to be associated with it. I also wish to state that our hearts go out to the people of Greece after the horrible train crash there.

I want to address two issues that I raise perennially in the Chamber. As the Leader well knows, as an experienced politician, repetition is important in this context. I have always consistently spoken on the gambling Bill and the need to appoint a gambling regulator. Indeed, I salute the work of the Minister of State, Deputy Browne, in this area. There is no question he is proactive. Perhaps the Leader would outline where we are with that and what progress has been made. When can we have a review of that progress?

There are two new issues I have raised latterly, but the second issue I perennially raise in the Chamber is that of child and adolescent mental health services, CAMHS. In a civilised society, we cannot and should not have children waiting for CAMHS. It is an unthinkable concept. Even if one had to trim one's sails in other areas, any society with correct values would not want a CAMHS waiting list. I ask the Leader where we are with that. I humbly suggest that if it has not been rectified, it should be debated and a report be laid before this House on where those waiting lists are. It is a very serious matter.

Chun deireadh a chur le mo chúpla focal, tréaslaím go mór leis an Seanadóir Ó Donnghaile ar labhairt na teanga sa Teach seo. Ba chóir dúinn go léir iarracht a dhéanamh Gaeilge a labhairt go nádúrtha, fiú amháin abairt nó dhó gach lá nó uaireanta. Is fiú é a dhéanamh. Tá an Ghaeilge mar chuid lárnach dár n-oidhreacht agus dár stair, agus tá litríocht iontach bunaithe uirthi. Ba chóir go ndéanfaimid sin.

Photo of Gerard CraughwellGerard Craughwell (Independent)
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Some time ago I reported that one of our CHC helicopters was forced to land on Valentia Island. Some weeks ago, one of our helicopters was forced to make an emergency landing in Derry, and I understand that, last night, Rescue 115 was forced to land off the coast of Clifden. I have brought up the issue of this organisation several times in this House, and I am very concerned it may be operating without qualified technicians. I asked for the Minister to come to the House and I think the Leader was trying to get the Minister in. I hope she can do that. There have been three incidents in a very short space of time. We must always remember we lost four people off the coast of Mayo and that, in the report of that particular incident, we were shown this organisation was reckless in its behaviour and in the way in which it operated. This is a matter of public record. Three of its helicopters have been forced to land. To find that helicopters are being forced to land for one reason or another is simply not good enough. We need the Minister in the House.

Speaking of Ministers, I have noticed that a single Minister is arriving to respond to Commencement matters across all Departments. It shows absolutely no respect for the Seanad. We are as entitled as the other House to have Ministers answer questions here or have Ministers of State from the relevant Department. Having one Minister come in to take a plethora of questions across several Departments does not do us the justice we are entitled to.

Photo of Paul GavanPaul Gavan (Sinn Fein)
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Well said.

Photo of Gerard CraughwellGerard Craughwell (Independent)
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I ask that the Leader raise that with Government to ensure we get the people who are answerable.

Photo of Emer CurrieEmer Currie (Fine Gael)
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I welcome the ambassadors who are here today. I am honoured that the UK ambassador wants to be here to hear what I have to say about the Windsor Framework. In all seriousness, I welcome the framework and thank all the stakeholders who have brought us this far. It is now under scrutiny by the main parties, which are looking at what lies beneath. I understand that is going to take time. I hope we are able to focus on the overall benefits, such as the dual market access for a region that has been held back by its past and by dysfunctional politics, the opportunity to focus on North-South institutions that have been neglected, and resetting the British-Irish relationship. It shows us what happens when the policy of brinkmanship and unilateralism is abandoned and we engage in negotiation in good faith and in compromise.

It remains to be seen whether the DUP will align with that approach. The idea there would be a strict adherence in unionism to the idea that Northern Ireland should be treated the same as every other part of the UK does not fundamentally align with the Good Friday Agreement. That has not brought us progress in the past. It might suit unionist ideology, but it does not make Northern Ireland work in the way it should. That is why I am pleased any veto does have strict terms and conditions that come with it. There has been a lot of lingo used over recent years, including "the backstop" and "get Brexit done". Now, we have the Stormont brake. I am going to borrow a phrase from another crisis we have lived with. I hope that, at this point, we are now moving to a place where we can now live with Brexit.

Photo of Lynn BoylanLynn Boylan (Sinn Fein)
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I echo the call by Senator Ó Donnghaile for the Government to fulfil its promise to bring forward an amendment to the legislation making provision for domestic violence leave. When I was an MEP, I worked with others to get the first call for domestic violence leave approved at EU level. It is a really important provision to enable survivors of domestic violence to find alternative accommodation and attend court hearings and medical appointments. It is critical that such leave be treated as a normal salary adjustment, with no distinction between it and other types of leave. Anybody who understands coercive control knows coercive people will look at their partners' bank accounts and payslips and monitor every aspect of their daily life. It is vital that where people are availing of paid domestic violence leave, it does not show up in those documents, thereby putting them at further risk. It is really disappointing that the Minister has not brought forward the amendment on which we got a commitment at the weekend. I hope everybody in the House will support the amendment proposed by Senator Ó Donnghaile to the Order of Business to ensure Report and Final Stages of the Bill are not taken today.

Photo of Garret AhearnGarret Ahearn (Fine Gael)
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I welcome the visitors to the Chamber from the UK Embassy. I am sure they were glad to be here for Senator Currie's contribution. I made a wonderful contribution yesterday, for which they were not in attendance. They will be pleased, for obvious reasons, to have been here to listen to Senator Currie's contribution.

I ask that the Minister for the Environment, Climate and Communications, Deputy Eamon Ryan, come to the House for a debate on energy costs. A number of Ministers and Members of the parties in Government have welcomed the announcement by Electric Ireland that the cost of energy bills for businesses will be reduced by 10%. I do not welcome it at all. For the past year and a bit, energy prices went up by 29%, 30% or 32% every time there was an increase. The very first time there is a reduction, which applies only to businesses and not to households, it is only 10%. It seems to me that the people in Electric Ireland heard the Taoiseach's comments last week that he would be asking the energy companies to reduce costs and that there should not be an onus on the State always to be the fallback in supporting people through the energy crisis. One of these businesses, which are making many multiples of millions of euro in profits, and bigger profits this year than they have ever made in any other year, has given a measly 10% cut when wholesale prices have dramatically reduced from what they were before the war. We need a debate in this House in which the Minister tells us what he will do about these companies, which are making huge profits on the back of householders and business owners struggling just to survive and coming up with a measly 10% cut and thinking it is enough. They seem to think people are fools and will just accept such a reduction and say it is fantastic there is a cut at all. It is nowhere near what it should be.

Photo of Paul GavanPaul Gavan (Sinn Fein)
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I welcome the ambassadors to the Gallery.

I second the proposal by my colleague, Senator Ó Donnghaile, to amend the Order of Business. I spoke on the same topic in the Chamber yesterday evening, assuming the Government amendment would be forthcoming. I expect everyone in this House would find it unacceptable for the Bill to be left as it currently is, which would mean a woman availing of domestic violence leave will face a pay deduction for that leave. It is entirely unacceptable. This Chamber has a tradition of coming together on important issues. This is a crucial issue and the provision is entirely unacceptable as it stands. We need to come together to support Senator Ó Donnghaile's amendment.

This morning, I heard an absolutely devastating condemnation of the Government's housing policy. It struck me as particularly powerful that it came from Chambers Ireland as part of its presentation to the Joint Committee on Enterprise, Trade and Employment. I refer in particular to the following statement:

The greatest challenge that our members face is the lack of available talent which is driven by affordable and appropriate housing being unavailable across most of the country. With a small number of exceptions, all our chambers have housing as the main cause of their businesses' challenges.

We need a debate on housing, with particular reference to the upcoming crucial issue of whether the eviction ban will be further extended. Sinn Féin's position is clear in stating that an extension is required. I want to hear where Fine Gael and its sister party Fianna Fáil stand on this crucial issue. The homelessness figures get worse month after month, with the latest showing that 11,754 people are homeless. This includes significant numbers of young people who are entirely squeezed out of our social life and our communities because of the lack of housing. We must have an urgent debate on this issue.

Photo of Maria ByrneMaria Byrne (Fine Gael)
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I join colleagues in calling for a debate on energy prices, not just for businesses but also for domestic customers. I have heard from many older people who are concerned about this. One person I spoke to was away from home for a week over Christmas and did not leave on the heating. Even so, the latest bill, which previously averaged approximately €200, is €700. That is a huge increase. Many people, both business owners and householders, have suffered badly from the energy price increases. I call for the Minister, Deputy Eamon Ryan, to come to the House for a debate.

The other issue I raise concerns the plight of young carers, many of whom have put their lives on hold to look after loved ones who need care within the home. They do not qualify for many benefits, including entitlement to pension cover and SUSI grants. Many of them, because they are caring for somebody at home, have to study on a part-time basis. They cannot go to college full time because of their caring duties. We need a meaningful debate on how we can support these young people who have put their lives on hold to look after loved ones.

Photo of Eugene MurphyEugene Murphy (Fianna Fail)
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I support the calls for a debate on the cost of energy for both businesses and the domestic sector. Previous speakers have made the case well for such a debate. I have been approached by a number of people, including owners of small businesses such as supermarkets, who are really struggling with energy prices, despite the Government support. Domestic users would not be coming to us about their situation unless it was absolutely urgent. Some of them are struggling, even, as I say, with the Government support, to pay their way. It is a worry for people. Their supply will not be cut off but they do not want the worry of being unable to pay hanging over them. I very much support my colleagues' calls for a debate on energy costs.

Photo of Victor BoyhanVictor Boyhan (Independent)
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I welcome the officials from the British Embassy who are in the Gallery. They are always very welcome to the House.

The first issue I raise concerns an editorial in The Irish Timestoday referring to GSK plc, the successor to Wellcome, and the vaccine trials performed on children in this State. I raise this issue mindful that we will soon see the introduction of a scheme of redress for former residents of mother and baby homes. I raise it also in the context of the legislation that has been passed in the Dáil precluding children who spent less than six months in the homes from accessing the scheme. We know these drug trials took place on very young children, some of whom were no more than a few weeks' old. All of those children will be excluded under the scheme.

I challenge colleagues today, as I did last week, to take an opportunity to address this issue. The legislation on the redress scheme will not be on the schedule of business next week. It possibly will come before the House the following week or the week after that. We have an opportunity to collaborate on this matter. There is no point talking to each other on the back stairs of the Chamber. We have opportunities before the legislation is scheduled to be taken in the House to work together to bring forward meaningful amendments. I ask every Member to read today's editorial in The Irish Times.Please reflect on the possibilities for us to unite and amend this legislation that is coming before the House.

Photo of Fiona O'LoughlinFiona O'Loughlin (Fianna Fail)
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I raise an issue relating to women's health. I acknowledge all the work the Leader has done in this area and that of the Minister for Health, who has taken action in many areas. I raise the issue of the cost of hormone replacement therapy, HRT. In the past, there were many disproven theories that HRT was not suitable for women and could cause breast cancer. Thankfully, we know from recent research that is not the case. Many have found it a lifesaver. A number of women have contacted me in recent weeks on symptoms they went through during perimenopause and menopause, particularly working women. They spoke of the brain fog, lack of energy and of not having the support of GPs. They educated themselves as to what they could do. One lady went to the Menopause Hub and found it excellent. They have been prescribed different medications. Some are reasonable enough but one lady is on four types of medication and faces a significant cost every month. It is about €150. This lady was happy to be on the medication because, as she said, she is 52 and a number of years ago she was thinking of giving up her full-time job because she could not cope. She feels, and I agree, that we need to support the costs of that medication. I ask that we have a debate with the Minister for Health on supporting the medical costs of the menopause.

Photo of Michael McDowellMichael McDowell (Independent)
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I welcome unreservedly the progress made on the Windsor Framework. At the Committee on European Union Affairs today, interesting testimony was received from the Irish Road Haulage Association on the possible unintended side effects of the new agreement for the Irish road haulage industry and the unresolved issues in respect of Irish road haulage export and import of European products, which effectively has been on hold throughout the Brexit crisis and the crisis that has followed in British politics since then. I ask that the Government take very seriously the side effects of the Windsor Framework. It is not simply a slam dunk and a great achievement. It is an achievement but it is not simply that. There will be side effects for trade between Ireland and the United Kingdom and Continent and for road haulage which have to be taken into account.

On 14 December the membership of the EU scrutiny committee was approved as a result of a report from the committee of selection. Is there any update on when that committee will start to function?

Photo of Robbie GallagherRobbie Gallagher (Fianna Fail)
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There are 42,300 people on a public waiting list for eye care in this country. The National Treatment Purchase Fund figures released in December last year showed 33,268 were on the outpatient eye care waiting list, with more than 12,100 of those waiting longer than a year. There were 9,108 people awaiting inpatient eye procedures, with nearly 1,000 waiting more than a year. These figures have further increased to 9,463 at the end of last month. The figures show many of our children and adults wait too long for public eye care. These delays negatively affect their long-term eye health, independence, education and quality of life in many cases.

There is a solution. It is heartening to hear the optometrists say they have the capacity to provide public eye care services to children over eight years of age and across all age cohorts. They have the expertise and the necessary equipment and they are asking the HSE and Department of Health to engage with them on rolling this out. There are more than 300 optometry practices and 700 practitioners. They are all highly trained, have state-of-the-art equipment and are ready to do business. According to them, it is 50% less expensive to provide routine examinations, monitoring and care in the community via local optometrists than it would be in the hospital system.

It appears we have a problem but a clear solution. I have raised this issue a number of times in this House and am disappointed more progress has not been made on it. We speak often in this and the other House about implementing aspects of Sláintecare, and this is a practical and simple strand of it. I ask that we write to the Minister for Health and invite him to the Chamber at the earliest opportunity to discuss how we can treat the eye care problems of our young people and adults. We seem to have a solution at hand.

Photo of Jerry ButtimerJerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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Senator McDowell raised a matter regarding the EU scrutiny committee. That is not a matter for the Leader but for the chair of the committee who, I understand, is actively trying to organise a meeting. I will be happy to expedite that with the Senator and I spoke to him on that.

Photo of Seán KyneSeán Kyne (Fine Gael)
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Any of us in rural communities know the importance of rural planning. Much work has been done by Minister of State, Deputy Peter Burke, who previously had responsibility for planning and local government, and the Minister, Deputy Darragh O’Brien. I understand the draft guidelines are due for publication and for consultation with those interested across rural Ireland and those who work in the area, such as engineers, architects and planners, and have an interest in it.

We have a severe housing shortage. The Government is doing all it can through Housing for All and, before it, Rebuilding Ireland to use the resources we have, including derelict rural houses. The Croí Cónaithe scheme has been extended to rural houses, for which I and others advocated strongly. However, planning is still a concern. While the overall figures in a county like Galway are positive in that four out of five planning applications are granted, that includes retentions, extensions and agricultural or industrial buildings. For housing, it is lower than that, particularly in areas such as Connemara, where there is a high proportion of special areas of conservation, special protection areas and natural heritage areas. The costs of preparing planning applications in such areas are extraordinary, with no guarantee of success. I understand there is no guarantee of success in planning, but it can run into the tens of thousands of euro if an appropriate assessment, Natura impact statements, hydrology reports and photo montages on its impact on the skyline are needed. I call for a debate with the Minister of State, Deputy O’Donnell, or the Minister on the rural planning guidelines if they due for imminent publication or as soon as they are published.

Photo of Jerry ButtimerJerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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I welcome the students from Galway Community College. Tá fíor-fháilte rompu go léir go dtí Teach Laighean. I thank them and their teachers and all for bringing them. I hope they have a positive day with us. I call the Leader to reply to the Order of Business.

Photo of Lisa ChambersLisa Chambers (Fianna Fail)
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I thank all Members who contributed to the Order of Business. Senator Conway raised the Windsor agreement in the context of Northern Ireland institutions. He has called for the political parties in Northern Ireland to get around the table and get back up and running. He also acknowledged the work of Clare GAA in some of its recent projects. Senator Malcolm Byrne acknowledged that it was St. David's Day for our friends across the water and noted that on a clear day you can see Wales from Wexford, which was something I did not know. I wish them well. He also made an interesting proposal to the House that, as we are approaching the 25th anniversary of the Good Friday Agreement in April, the Government should consider establishing a museum of the Troubles so we might catalogue our very recent history for future generations who may not be as aware as certain generations are. That is an interesting proposal.

I am not fully familiar with the issue Senator Keogan raised around the pandemic treaty that is being discussed at a global level but I will certainly request the debate. I am not sure about the timelines on that. We might want to wait for more information to be available in order for us to have a fuller debate. The Senator might come back to me with some details on that and we can look to schedule a debate. It will certainly be an interesting one to have. I am sure other Members are the same as me and would not be fully aware of what is happening in that discussion. We will certainly get that scheduled.

Senator Ó Donnghaile proposed an amendment to the Order of Business, supported by Senators Gavan and Boylan, on the basis that the Government amendment that was expected has not been put forward. I would like to inform Members that there are two Government amendments on that issue. Amendment No. 17 deletes the 70% rate and amendment No. 13 inserts a reference to engaging with domestic violence agencies to take their expert advice on what the rate should be. This was raised in the Dáil by the Senator's colleague, Deputy Louise O'Reilly.

My understanding is that it was explained to his party colleague and that it was deemed okay but maybe that is not the case. There are Government amendments dealing specifically with that issue to address it in line with what the domestic violence agencies have asked for. I suggest that we proceed with the Order of Business as scheduled for today because that item will be on in the next few hours. If agreement is not reached, we can adjourn early and reschedule to continue the debate next week but I would hope the amendments, on further inspection, might achieve what the Senator is looking to achieve.

I am on the record as saying I did not think it was a good idea to have reduced pay because of the concern that it might alert abusers that their partner had been out of work that day or on any given day. That point is very well made by Women's Aid and others. The Minister has listened to that and that is why we have the amendments that we are dealing with today. The Senator might consider what I have said and let me know how that will proceed today. He also noted that it is Seachtain na Gaeilge, as did other Members, and I acknowledge that.

Senator Joe O'Reilly spoke about sending our condolences and support to those in Greece on the huge tragedy there. I wish the rescue efforts and the Government there well in their efforts on that issue. The Senator also asked for an update on the gambling Bill and the regulator. I will get that update for him and my office will revert to him. I will also revert back to him on the CAMHS waiting list. We had a debate very recently on that issue and I know the Minister is working hard to address it. There have been significant improvements in some parts of the country but not in others, as the Senator will be aware. There are challenges. Lots of posts have been sanctioned to hire the additional staff that are needed but there is a challenge in recruiting staff into those posts that the Government has already funded and sanctioned. We can certainly raise the matter again and have a further debate on it.

Senator Craughwell raised the issue of Commencement matters and the fact that one or two Ministers of State appear to be taking all of them. I and the Cathaoirleach can raise the matter up the line. I understand the frustration of Senators. It would obviously be more desirable if a Minister in the relevant Department was giving the reply. That does not always happen. We understand that Ministers are busy with their schedules and sometimes senior Ministers are not available but we will certainly relay the frustration of Members to our Government colleagues. Senator Craughwell raised another issue around search and rescue, which he has raised a number of times, and asked for a debate on the matter, which I will request.

Senator Currie welcomed the Windsor Framework and gave her views on what she thought was a positive step forward in relations. As always, she is a very passionate speaker on matters affecting Northern Ireland.

Senator Boylan raised the issue of the domestic violence leave, which I have dealt with.

Senator Ahearn spoke about energy prices, as did Senator Murphy. A number of Members yesterday raised the same issue. A significant increase in energy prices happened at a very fast pace and that has not been matched by a similar pace in the reduction in prices, in line with the reduction in wholesale prices. That request for a debate has gone in and we will schedule that at the earliest opportunity. I acknowledge the points made by both Senators. Senator Murphy mentioned the impact on businesses, which are really struggling despite the significant Government support, which they would acknowledge, towards the cost of energy. Businesses are still struggling to deal with that.

As well as supporting the amendment to the Order of Business, Senator Gavan raised an issue around housing impacting the ability of companies to attract employees. That is an issue, particularly in the capital, where companies are not able to attract employees where there is no housing available. The Senator will be aware, and I have said this many times before, that the housing issue is something the Government has made a top priority and is the main priority. There is significant funding going into housing. The numbers are beginning to turn in terms of commencements and completions. We want to see more and we will build more houses this year than we did last year and the previous year. It is going in the right direction but it is taking time. I appreciate there are still significant pinch points and it is a big challenge for us as a country and a nation to address.

Senator Maria Byrne also asked for a debate on energy prices, which I have dealt with.

Senator Boyhan spoke, as he has done previously, on the mother and baby home Bill that is coming before the House. It will not be on next week. We will have a group leaders and whips meeting after the Order of Business and we might discuss further the scheduling of that Bill that is coming through the House. I take on board the comments the Senator has made around the restrictions contained within the redress scheme.

Senator O'Loughlin spoke about women's health and commended the Minister for Health for his work in that area. She raised a specific issue around the cost of HRT, which for many women is an essential medicine at a certain point in their lives. She mentioned one lady who is paying about €150 per month, which is a significant cost. HRT might be an issue for a Commencement matter and we may look to have a wider debate on women's health at some point in the future.

Senator McDowell spoke about the Windsor Framework. I take on board his comments about the road haulage industry. I was at the Joint Committee on European Union Affairs this morning. He is right that it is a significant step forward and it is an achievement and credit to all involved that we have managed to get this deal on the table. It has not been accepted yet by all sides but is being considered in depth by the parties, particularly those in Northern Ireland. There will be changes to the road haulage sector, particularly with the green lane and red lane and trying to update their systems to account for that. There will be a responsibility on the haulage sector to account for what is coming in and out and where it is going. There will be changes. I was heartened to hear this morning from Rosslare Europort and Dublin Port about the advances they are making in digitisation in the haulage sector. That sounds very positive and quite timely, given the changes they will be asked to deal with. I take on board the Senator's point that we have to be mindful, as we herald this great framework agreement, that there will be some changes that may be costly and cumbersome for the haulage sector. The Cathaoirleach has dealt with the issue of the EU scrutiny committee, which is not a matter for my office but a matter for the Committee on Parliamentary Privileges and Oversight and the Committee of Selection.

Senator Gallagher spoke about the eye care waiting list. I might suggest a Commencement matter on that, because it is quite niche, to see if we can get a detailed response from the Minister. It sounds like there is a solution to that significant issue. A lot of citizens are affected by that matter.

Senator Kyne requested a debate on the rural housing planning guidelines, which we have been waiting for in excess of a year now. I would be very eager to see those guidelines and would certainly welcome a debate on the matter. I will make that request to the Department for either Minister to come to the House and have that debate at the earliest opportunity.

Photo of Jerry ButtimerJerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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An amendment to the Order of Business has been proposed by an Seanadóir Niall Ó Donnghaile: "That No. 3 not be taken today." Is the amendment being pressed?

Photo of Niall Ó DonnghaileNiall Ó Donnghaile (Sinn Fein)
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It is being pressed. With respect to the Leader's remarks, I have seen the Government amendments and the fact is the prescribed rate of pay remains in the Bill. I do not think that is something the Seanad can or should stand over.

Amendment put:

The Seanad divided: Tá, 10; Níl, 29.



Tellers: Tá, Senators Niall Ó Donnghaile and Paul Gavan; Níl, Senators Robbie Gallagher and Joe O'Reilly.

Amendment declared lost.

Question put: "That the Order of Business be agreed to."

The Seanad divided: Tá, 26; Níl, 10.



Tellers: Tá, Senators Robbie Gallagher and Joe O'Reilly; Níl, Senators Niall Ó Donnghaile and Paul Gavan.

Question declared carried.