Seanad debates

Wednesday, 5 October 2022

10:30 am

Photo of Mark DalyMark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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Before I ask the Deputy Leader to outline the Order of Business, I welcome Mary O'Loughlin to the Gallery. You are most welcome to Seanad Éireann. Your daughter is doing a great job as the deputy leader of the Fianna Fáil group in Seanad Éireann and has given many years of service to the people of Kildare and of Ireland, so you should be very proud of her. I thank you for visiting us for the Order of Business this morning.

Photo of Lisa ChambersLisa Chambers (Fianna Fail)
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Mary, Fiona's mum, is most welcome to the Chamber. It is great to have her here.

The Order of Business is No. 1, address to Seanad Éireann by Lord John McFall of Alcluith, Lord Speaker of the House of Lords, to be taken at 12.45 p.m. in accordance with the arrangements set out in the motion agreed by the House on Wednesday, 28 September 2022; No. 2, Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2022 - Second Stage, to be taken at 2.30 p.m. and to adjourn at 4.30 p.m. if not previously concluded, with the time allocated to the opening remarks of the Minister not to exceed ten minutes, group spokespersons not to exceed eight minutes and all other Senators not to exceed five minutes, with the Minister to be given no less than ten minutes to reply to the debate; No. 3, Water Environment (Abstractions and Associated Impoundments) Bill 2022 - Order for Second Stage and Second Stage, to be taken at 4.45 p.m. and to adjourn at 6.15 p.m. if not previously concluded, with the time allocated to the opening remarks of the Minister not to exceed ten minutes, group spokespersons not to exceed eight minutes, all other Senators not to exceed five minutes, and the Minister to be given no less than ten minutes to reply to the debate; and No. 113, motion 3, motion regarding the Passport Office service, to be taken at 6.30 p.m., with the time allocated to this debate not to exceed two hours.

Photo of Mark DalyMark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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I call Mary O'Loughlin's daughter to respond to the Order of Business on behalf of the Fianna Fáil group.

Photo of Fiona O'LoughlinFiona O'Loughlin (Fianna Fail)
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I support the Order of Business as outlined by the Deputy Leader. I am delighted to welcome my mum. It is her first time in the Seanad. It is great to have her here for a short period.

Last Saturday should have been Jennifer Poole's 26th birthday. She was a lovely, vivacious young woman with two children. Sadly, her life was taken from her in April last year. This should not have happened. On Saturday, her brother, Jason, joined Deputy Jim O'Callaghan and me to talk about the horrific trauma that his family suffered when Jennifer's life was taken from her in seven minutes by a former partner who was known for domestic violence. The main reason that we had this conversation was to try to ensure that a register of domestic abuse offenders would be set up. Jennifer had the courage and conviction to finish the relationship. Many people are not able to finish a relationship but Jennifer was. Afterwards, the fact that he had been in jail for two and a half years for a previous domestic violence offence came out. If there was a domestic violence register in the same way that there is a sexual abusers register, there is no doubt that the gardaí and Jennifer would have been aware, and she would not have got into that situation. Deputy Jim O'Callaghan has suggested that a domestic violence register be opened in this country. I think it would be important. I ask the Deputy Leader to see if the Minister for Justice will come in so we can have a debate on that in this House.

I want to raise an issue regarding the Adoption Authority of Ireland. The new system opened on 3 October to facilitate people who were adopted. They can provide their information to try to ensure that they can trace their parents. More than 400 applications were made on Monday. It has been a long, difficult and emotional road for many people. I pay tribute to the tireless advocates and to the Minister, Deputy O'Gorman, for delivering on this commitment. Since Monday, adopted people, those who were boarded out or had their birth illegally registered have been able to apply for full information about their birth or early lives. It is anticipated that up to 150,000 people will be able to access their full information. It is important that we ask for this to be done in a timely fashion. In six months, we should ask the Minister to come to the House to give information about the statistics at that point.

I congratulate two men on what they have achieved. The first is Eric Donovan from Athy, County Kildare, who has become European boxing champion. He has overcome great adversity in his life. He is an icon for supporting people to get over issues such as mental health and addiction, and dreaming and achieving big dreams. I also congratulate Fintan Bray. It is Down's syndrome month. Fintan Bray was elected to the Fianna Fáil ard comhairle on Saturday. It is the first time that anybody with an intellectual disability has been elected to high office in any political party in Ireland. It is worth marking that here.

Photo of Mary Seery KearneyMary Seery Kearney (Fine Gael)
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I rise to note a matter to this House and ask a question. Last Thursday, the journalist Hugh O'Connell had a story in the Irish Independentabout two joint committees. I will be careful, Cathaoirleach. The committees were obliged to waive privilege to allow members of the Garda in the north west access to their computers. That is in the context of a staff member of a Deputy being accused of viewing child abuse materials. The staff member is being investigated under the Child Trafficking and Pornography Act. I am not saying anything about the case.I reiterate that the Deputy in question is not accused of any wrongdoing. However, there is a serious aspect, of concern within these Houses, that needs to be addressed and answered. Deputies and Senators, by virtue of their jobs, have access to delicate, private material. We have all been asked to advocate for people and their families. In the process, we are given material that discloses delicate, private matters and vulnerability. With Members and their staff having access to such information from members of the public, it is important for us to have robust systems to ensure the presumption of innocence is safeguarded at all times and that natural justice and fair procedures are accorded to the individual. Deputies and Senators have a duty to act to safeguard the public and their staff.

I ask the Deputy Leader to establish whether the individual in question has been suspended on full pay, pending the outcome of this investigation. What is the position and stance of that individual and the Deputy’s party on this matter? Has the party afforded support? How is the public being safeguarded? We are dealing with potentially serious child protection issues. It is important that Members of this House and the party of the individual have acted properly with regard to these issues.

Yesterday, during the Order of Business, a Member of this House tried to provide cover for incredibly ignorant statements made about people. Comments were made about parents of children born via surrogacy. Those comments are on the record of this House. The parents were reduced to being people who engage in contracts. That Member made a cynical attempt to claim that they were being criticised as being far right after saying something and says that the Member is just raising an objection. Nobody objects to anybody having a different opinion or to the advocacy of a different opinion. That is correct. I object to the labelling and prejudicing of individuals and the reducing of Travellers and people who advocate on behalf of Black Lives Matter. The language that we use is incredibly important. Having empathy for people in their situation is important, even if one disagrees with their point of view. Reducing the situation and cynically seeking cover in this House by saying that it does not matter how ignorant or aggressive statements are, and that people objecting to that person saying it are labelling him or her as far right, is not true and should be challenged on every occasion.

Photo of Tom ClonanTom Clonan (Independent)
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We had interesting statements last night on the high-level action plan for the implementation of the recommendations of the Commission on the Future of the Defence Forces. I will make a couple of points about that. Before I do, I welcome Senator O’Loughlin’s mum. I lived in Kildare for eight years and have happy memories of it. I was made to feel welcome and at home there. Senator O'Loughlin has been a great mentor and colleague since I arrived here, as has everybody in this House. Senator O'Loughlin is a credit to her mum. I am delighted to see her here today.

A number of interesting points were raised last night. The Minister indicated in his response that he had little time and would like to come back to the House again. There were a couple of issues that I would like to revisit if we can facilitate the Minister’s return. I was struck by the comments that Senator O’Loughlin made about the Reserve Defence Force. During my time in the Defence Forces, we interacted with the Reserve Defence Force, which was then known as Fórsa Cosanta Áitiúil, the FCA. It had high-calibre people, including businesspeople and public servants. They had a wealth of industrial and professional experience. The military does everything that is done in society and replicates it, from logistics to nursing to dentistry. It is a huge human capital resource. We are confronted by many challenges. Under the European Union Petersberg Tasks, the priorities for our military are to address man-made and natural disasters. There is significant potential for our Defence Forces, particularly for the Reserve Defence Force, to be mobilised to aid the civil authority. I have it from no less an authoritative source than The Sunthat there is a triple-dip La Niña in the Pacific, which means there is a possibility of a repeat of the great freeze of 2010, the Beast from the East and so on. Our military personnel come to the fore in such situations.

With regard to other challenges, the Minister mentioned the defence academy. Throughout Covid, members of the medical profession publicly advised the Government. We did not have civil servants from the Department of Health doing so. It is high time that we find a mechanism or platform for senior members of our military to publicly advise the Government. There should be some platform, as in other jurisdictions in Europe, to give advice on the many challenges that confront us, from the destabilisation caused by the conflict in Ukraine to climate change and other issues coming down the tracks. That will bolster the intellectual tradition of our forces, which is nascent. It would be great if we could invite the Minister back to discuss these and other issues.

Photo of Niall Ó DonnghaileNiall Ó Donnghaile (Sinn Fein)
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I begin by welcoming Senator O’Loughlin’s mummy. I am sure she is all cut with all the attention she is getting today. It is great that she has picked a morning in which we are in a collegiate, happy mood and all saying nice things about each other, which is right and proper. I also welcome the latest member of the Civil Engagement Group, Billie White, who is Senator Flynn’s daughter and who is joining us here today. It is great to see her in the Chamber. I am looking forward to hearing what she has to say. I will move on to my own business for today.

I congratulate Laochra Loch Lao, which is Belfast’s Gaeltacht football team. It plays Gaelic football in the Gaeltacht quarter. At the weekend, its women’s team became Antrim’s junior B champions. I congratulate them. Comhghairdeas ó chroí leo. Bua ollmhór a bhí ann, bua stairiúil don chumann. Táim cinnte go mbeidh said ag tógáil air sin agus ag iad ag bogadh ar aghaidh. Comhghairdeas arís leo.

I commend the organisers of the Ireland's Future event that took place in the 3Arena at the weekend. I know many Members were in attendance and represented. Our Cathaoirleach contributed. It was an interesting, diverse and worthwhile discussion. I am not just saying this but genuinely thought the most powerful part of the day were the contributions from the Rev. Karen Sethuraman and Ben Collins. They both come from the unionist tradition and both gave thoughtful, open and honest contributions to the debate on our constitutional future and change for the better for all of us. That chimed well with the event we held in this Chamber on Friday with the Seanad Public Consultation Committee. While I think I said this already, I want to say it again, the morning session of that debate involving the young people was particularly worthwhile. I know Fridays are busy, but if colleagues get the opportunity, they should try to come in over the next couple of weeks to listen to the voices of young people. If it is anything like last Friday, it is an important, powerful part of the work of that committee. I look forward to more of that. It shows how important the debate is.

It is apt that the Lord Speaker of the House of Lords will be with us this afternoon. I know the Deputy Leader will have an interest in the change in tone from the British Government. I hope it is representative of the real need to return to a positive negotiation of issues regarding the protocol and to return to the core principles of protecting the Good Friday Agreement.We have heard some very negative sabre-rattling from the DUP over the past couple of days, from people who have always opposed the Good Friday Agreement. We as a Seanad, an Oireachtas and, indeed, the Irish Government, need to remain steadfast as we head into the 25th anniversary. Talk of the funerals and the burials of the Good Friday Agreement are really regressive and negative. I do not think that we should be overly shook by that but I do think we should reaffirm our forthright commitment and dedication to protecting the Good Friday Agreement and, more importantly, seeing it fully implemented in the time ahead.

Photo of Rebecca MoynihanRebecca Moynihan (Labour)
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Today I bring to the attention of the House the provision of both cost rental and social housing in the old St. Michael's Estate, what is now the Emmet Road development project. In 2018, the then Minister for Housing, Planning and Local Government, Eoghan Murphy, said this would be a flagship cost rental project in the city, with loans from the European Investment Bank, EIB, and funds from the Department of Housing, Planning and Local Government to provide, on what was a social housing site, 70% cost rental and 30% social housing. It has always been understood that that site would be 100% public and affordable housing.

Last week, at the last minute, just before the planning application went in, Dublin City Council informed Inchicore Regeneration Consultative Forum, which is chaired very ably by Eamon Devoy and which includes councillors, local residents and members of the St. Michael's Estate Regeneration Board, that there was potential for 91 units to be sold on to a private developer as part of a development with the shopping centre and that was how it would fund the community facilities that need to go into a development that will 467 homes and might have a population of 1,000. That was never the understanding of anyone involved in the project in the last four years and is very concerning. I have raised the matter a couple of times in the House of how local authorities are in a stranglehold because there is no separate income stream for community facilities. For instance there is another regeneration project just down the road in St. Teresa's Gardens. I fought very hard for a pitch there when I was on Dublin City Council. In order to get this we needed to sell on a parcel of land. This arose again with the development of O'Devaney Gardens. Any community facilities need to be paid for. Dublin City Council, councillors and members of the community feel like they are forced to sell land in order to be able to pay for them. If we are doing flagship projects such as this it should be taken for granted that there will be funding for things like playgrounds, green spaces and things like community centres. That is an essential part of a working community. That this was landed on the people who worked so hard, like John Bissett, Rita Fagan and Eilish Comerford, who have been working on this for the last 20 years a week before planning was about to be submitted is a disgraceful treatment of the people who have been involved in the very detailed planning of this.

Photo of Mark DalyMark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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Before I invite Senator Black to speak on behalf of the Civil Engagement Group, I welcome its newest member Billie White. She is most welcome. Senator Flynn has brought a new Senator to Leinster House in a unique way. Billie White is very welcome and I think that she will add a lot to Seanad Éireann to new ways of thinking and doing things, as we should. Senator Flynn, I thank you for bringing your daughter in to Seanad Éireann today. She is certainly the youngest member of Seanad Éireann. In this year of centenaries, we are celebrating them all and bringing new life to Seanad Éireann.

Photo of Frances BlackFrances Black (Independent)
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She is just writing her speech.

Photo of Mark DalyMark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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We look forward to that.

Photo of Frances BlackFrances Black (Independent)
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I want to welcome Senator O'Loughlin's mam to the Chamber and all our visitors today. They are very welcome. I also want to send condolences to the family of Rory Mason from Kildare, the young man who died in Ukraine in its army.

Like my previous colleague, Senator Ó Donnghaile, I want to thank the more than 5,000 people who came from all corners of the island to the 3Arena last Saturday for the Together We Can conference organised by Ireland's Future. I thank all the volunteers who made it happen. They did a phenomenal job. I also thank the Members of the Oireachtas who came and spoke. We had the Tánaiste, Deputy Varadkar, the Sinn Féin president, Deputy McDonald, and Deputies Richmond, Jim O'Callaghan, Bacik, Cian O'Callaghan and Bríd Smith. It was so powerful to see and hear senior figures from across the political spectrum come together to take part in what was a very respectful and productive conversation about constitutional change. I also want to say a huge thank you to Members of this House who came and shared their insight with us, namely, Senator Martin, the Cathaoirleach and my really good friend and colleague from the Civil Engagement Group, Senator Flynn.

I believe a new and united Ireland is not merely a political issue. It is an optimistic and democratic aspiration held by millions of people on both sides of the Border and many more all around the world. It is such a privilege as a chairperson of Ireland's Future to witness these kinds of conversations taking place all over Ireland and further afield. It is amazing to hear actors, musicians, feminists, trade unionists, people from all walks of life, come together to speak about what constitutional change means to them. Moreover, hearing people from unionist backgrounds such as Reverend Karen Sethuraman, Ben Collins and Jimmy Nesbitt speaking so brilliantly about their evolving conception of their identity was particularly special. These are the kinds of nuanced insights that we can benefit from when we create spaces and forums where people can share ideas and perspectives that we do not often hear in normal political discourse. Everyone knows that constitutional change will require a lot of work and listening and a capacity not only to tolerate but also celebrate difference and diversity. Unity does not mean grafting two jurisdictions together. It means taking a forensic look at what works and what does not on both sides of the Border. It is our opportunity to question old ways of thinking and to generate new ideas and new paths forward. It will require us to do work to create a true republic; one that is secular and multicultural; a republic that enjoys economic prosperity and stability, while also providing comprehensive and reliable public services. We in the Oireachtas need to show leadership here. That is why projects such as the Cathaoirleach's Public Consultation Committee on constitutional change are so welcome. I thank the Cathaoirleach for setting up that committee. I thoroughly enjoyed last week's session and look forward to the next one on Friday. We need to do more work of this nature to create space for the research, dialogue, planning and preparing that will be necessary to make change a reality.

Photo of Shane CassellsShane Cassells (Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Senator. I concur with what she said about last Friday. It was a really worthwhile engagement.

Photo of Gerry HorkanGerry Horkan (Fianna Fail)
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I also congratulate the Seanad and the Cathaoirleach on last Friday's engagement, which was referred to by both Senators Ó Donnghaile and Black. The Acting Chairperson, Senator Cassells was there, as I was myself. It was a very interesting contribution and there was a level of energy in the room from the people who were there. Not only the speeches they had prepared, which they had put a lot of work into, but also their responses to what we put to them were very interesting and engaging. It was a very worthwhile exercise.

I thank the Cathaoirleach, the Seanad and the Lord Speaker, Lord McFall of Alcluith, who will be in the House at 12.45 p.m. I think that it is the very first time in the history of the Oireachtas that we have had the Lord Speaker of the House of Lords come to address us. I do not think we should underestimate how momentous a day this is. It is very much in the spirit of how we are trying to move forward and bring everybody with us. British-Irish relations have had a bit of a rocky patch, I think we would all acknowledge, and we are trying to move forward with the new British Government. I really hope that today is part of that.Yesterday evening, we had a good engagement with members of the British-Irish Parliamentary Assembly and of the newly convened British-Irish friendship group in the Parliament, convened by the Deputy Leader, Senator Chambers. I congratulate her on setting up that group. It is hard to believe we never had a friendship group with our closest neighbour. Maybe we took it for granted, but it is great that we have it. That we have an opportunity today to engage with the speaker of the House of Lords is also fantastic. I look forward to that contribution shortly.

Photo of John CumminsJohn Cummins (Fine Gael)
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Last week we had one of the most expansionary budgets in recent times, an €11 million cost-of-living budget with a combination of universal and targeted measures to help all citizens. I would like in the weeks ahead if we could have statements on social protection and have the Minister for Social Protection, Deputy Humphreys, before the House. We are all aware of the high-level, big-ticket items introduced, such as the €600 energy credit across three payments of €200, the increase in the threshold of the fuel allowance from €120 to €200 over and above the State pension and the introduction of a different regime for qualifying for the fuel allowance for those over 70, to €500 for a single pensioner and €1,000 for a pensioner couple.

A number of items have gone under the radar and not got attention. Perhaps people are not aware of them. One of those is an item I raised in this House under a Commencement matter this time last year with the Minister concerning disablement benefit and the fact that it is a disqualifying payment for the fuel allowance. It was brought to my attention by two widows in Waterford that because they were in receipt of a partial disablement benefit payment, they did not qualify for the fuel allowance, even though that allowance would be more beneficial to them. The Minister in the budget, though I have not seen it written or reported on anywhere, has changed the criteria to make sure disablement benefit is no longer a disqualifying payment for the fuel allowance, which will bring in a new cohort of people.

A number of such items have not got an airing thus far and it would be appropriate if the Minister was able to come to the House to discuss them in the time ahead.

Photo of Sharon KeoganSharon Keogan (Independent)
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I would like a debate with the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage, Deputy Darragh O'Brien, wherein he can outline to us the future of housing in this country under this Government, as well as his considered thoughts on what it will be under the next government and future governments based on what we are seeing and emerging trends.

The mortgage tracker scandal involved 81 regulatory breaches leading to the loss of 25 family homes. What good is a fine to those families? We have more than 500 housing bodies in this country, in addition to our local city and council authorities. Why? How did we get to this stage? Surely in the provision of housing a centralised response best allows for the most efficient use of land and resources. Was that not the thinking behind the establishment of the Land Development Agency? Yet we now have charities bidding against councils and councils bidding against foreign investment funds, all pricing out first-time buyers. Part of me wonders if, instead of giving first-time buyers little help in the form of schemes and grants, we should give them a whole-year playing field on the market - one year where no house is sold to anyone except first-time buyers who will live in it.

Is home ownership the future of households in Ireland? All of these housing bodies buy or build to rent. Will lifetime renting become the norm? Will the notion of the family home passed down through generations fade away, replaced by accommodation security in the hands of Government? "Have this house until you die, then it goes back into the pot and is allocated to someone else." What are the implications of a right to housing? How will they be reconciled with private home ownership, or will they be? These are questions that many people in this country would like asked. The Minister for housing should come in here and speak to us on those concerns.

Photo of Pat CaseyPat Casey (Fianna Fail)
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My issue relates to the budget of last week and my disappointment in relation to the extension of the VAT rate for the hospitality sector. At a time when that sector faces many challenges as it tries to get back to the capacity it had before the pandemic, it was unfortunate that no clear indication was given by the Minister for Finance, Deputy Donohoe, and no budget line was made to extend the VAT provision beyond 28 February. Adding to the confusion and frustration for me and the industry was that within three or four hours of the Minister announcing that, the Tánaiste intervened and said no decision had been made on VAT for the hospitality sector.

I understand what has happened in the hotel sector, with the irresponsible behaviour of a limited number of hotels in relation to the prices they charge and the damage that is doing to our industry on the international market. It is irresponsible by them and is doing untold damage to the sector. However, I need the Minister to look beyond the hotel sector. The VAT rate includes cafes, restaurants, bars and hairdressers. If the Tánaiste is being honest in saying the decision has not been made, what are the guidelines to making this decision in February? What circumstances would allow the hospitality sector to continue with the preferential 9% VAT rate it has at the moment? I hope it is not based on a limited number of hotels gouging the market and doing untold damage to our sector.

Photo of Jerry ButtimerJerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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I concur with the request of Senator Casey for a debate, not just on the 9% VAT rate but on hospitality and tourism. It is interesting that, post Covid, there has been an interest in and pent-up demand for tourism globally, which has flatlined in the middle of this year. I raised the issue of the 9% VAT rate before the budget. It is important that, as we enter a critical period for hospitality, we have that debate. I ask that the Ministers with responsibility for finance, public expenditure, tourism and enterprise, as part of a rolling debate, come to the House to help us have an informed discussion on where we go in the context of hospitality and tourism. Today we have Aer Lingus in the transport committee, as part of aviation. It is important.

I congratulate and welcome the comments this morning by the Tánaiste in the enterprise committee, where he said proof of domestic abuse should not be included in the upcoming legislation by the Minister, Deputy O'Gorman. That is a positive move. I hope all of Government will listen to that. The five days' paid leave for victims of domestic abuse is something we all welcome. It would be very wrong if any woman had to present proof of domestic abuse to avail of that leave.

I ask the Deputy Leader that we have a debate on the Dublin convention. Last week, ministers for justice were in Dublin and signed that convention. It is important that we have that debate as part of our pieces of legislation to improve and enhance the lives of all citizens, particularly women, in the workforce as well.

That leads to my final point, which is that I would like a debate on the nature of work, given that the world of work has changed and is changing and evolving.

Photo of Lynn BoylanLynn Boylan (Sinn Fein)
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I too raise the comments from IBEC. They are deeply disappointing. Once again, IBEC finds itself on the wrong side of history.It has objected to the minimum wage. It has objected to environmental measures. Now IBEC is looking for survivors of domestic violence to prove they are actually suffering from domestic violence, to avoid what IBEC says is potential abuse of this leave. This narrative that people would abuse the right to take leave is something that we have seen before when it comes to any of these progressive measures. It is not just disappointing but in this case it is particularly disturbing. Survivors of domestic violence, the majority of whom are women, often suffer in silence. They often downplay the abusive behaviour of their partners until it gets to the point where it is life-threatening. Unfortunately, in some cases this is too late. As a society we need to play our part and take every measure we can to put an end to domestic violence. This includes encouraging and supporting those who are experiencing it to seek help without fear or favour. Financial security is important to those who are trying to escape from a domestic violence situation. An Irish Congress of Trade Unions, ICTU, report has found that 20% of workers took leave from work that involved attending medical appointments, attending court appearances, or trying to find alternative accommodation. When I was an MEP in 2016 I brought forward the first proposal at an EU level for any European Union country calling for paid domestic violence leave. That action was then taken up by my colleague Deputy O'Reilly in the Dáil, and a Private Members' motion was passed calling for ten days of paid domestic violence leave. I welcome the fact that the Government acted on that, albeit for five days. I call on IBEC to reflect on its comments, to do the right thing, to stand up for decency and to put an end for the scourge of domestic violence in society.

Photo of Tom ClonanTom Clonan (Independent)
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Hear, hear.

Photo of Erin McGreehanErin McGreehan (Fianna Fail)
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I wish to highlight an issue I have been raising in the Seanad for a long time now, together with lots of other people, namely, the number of households living in fuel poverty in the State. It is now at pandemic levels. We have a serious issue where people living in very vulnerable households are moving into and staying in fuel poverty.

I ask the Seanad this morning to support me in my quest to insist that the Government would mandate energy producers to reduce the wastage of energy. Currently more than €300 million worth of energy is wasted. Renewable energy is wasted by not being utilised in the State. When there is excess energy or wind power in the system, the wind turbines are turned off. We need to be able to utilise that power and that energy. We need to make sure that the Government will work with the Commission for Regulation of Utilities and work with EirGrid to insist that they work with EnergyCloud, which is a not-for-profit company that works with vulnerable households. EnergyCloud has the capability to direct this wasted energy, quite literally, into their hot tanks so that in the morning, these vulnerable households would have a hot tank of water for free. It is an absolute disgrace that we are wasting energy in this country and that we are not diverting it into the tanks and the homes of the people who really need it.

Photo of Maria ByrneMaria Byrne (Fine Gael)
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I rise today to raise two matters. First, I welcome that nine primary schools in Limerick have been accepted into the Creative Schools initiative, namely, Castleconnell National School, Donoughmore National School, Presentation Primary School, Limerick city, Scoil An Spioraid Naoimh, Scoil Áine Naofa, St. Canice's Special School, St. Clement's College, Thomond Primary School and Courtenay School, Newcastle West. They will receive a grant for a creative professional who will work with them and implement their bespoke creative school plan. This is most welcome. Creative Schools is a wonderful initiative. I thank the Arts Council for this programme. More than 200 schools right across the country have been accepted into the programme.

The last issue I wish to raise is the conflicting reports on hospitals for the mid-west. A report was issued last week by Deloitte around the hospital in Limerick where it was suggested that extra beds were required for the mid-west. As we know, the shortage of beds and the overcrowding in the hospital are issues that I constantly raise in the House. Today the hospital is overcrowded again. In the Dáil, the Taoiseach acknowledged the fact that the extra beds were needed and he also acknowledged the findings of the report. Yet, the Minister for Health came out yesterday to say that there will be no elective hospital in the mid-west. It is most disappointing that on the one hand the leader of our country and of the Government has acknowledged the report and the findings of the report with regard to an elective hospital, and then the Minister for Health has given a conflicting report. We really need to get to the bottom of this. I call for a debate on the future of healthcare in the mid-west region.

Photo of Robbie GallagherRobbie Gallagher (Fianna Fail)
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I welcome that the search for the disappeared victim, Columba McVeigh, has resumed on Bragan Mountain, County Monaghan. The family of Columba McVeigh, the young teenager who was murdered and secretly buried by the IRA, have spoken of their new hope of finding the remains of their beloved Columba. To date, five searches have been conducted on Bragan Mountain since 1999 but, unfortunately, without success. The trauma and the search continues until they find Columba's body.

I was deeply taken by the recent comments of Columba's brother Oliver, when he talked about the family's trauma and the journey they have been on. I will quote what he said this week on top of Bragan Mountain.

I’m going to keep fighting and keep scrapping and keep at these people till I find my brother’s body. It’s not for me, it’s ... for my mother who always wanted this to happen and made me promise when she knew she wasn’t going to live, to get this to happen. She always said she would go to her grave happy if Columba was in the grave with her and her husband.

My heart goes out to that family who, for the past 47 years, have been through a living hell. I am sure that everyone in the House will join with me to ask anybody who has any information whatsoever that might lead to Columba's body being found, to please come forward and to know that by doing so their confidentiality is completely protected, so that this family can finally put their brother's body along with their mother and father to rest in peace, amen.

Photo of Shane CassellsShane Cassells (Fianna Fail)
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I now turn to Senator Flynn who, I believe, has a new Taoiseach's nominee beside her joining us in the Seanad this morning.

Photo of Eileen FlynnEileen Flynn (Independent)
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I thank the Acting Chairperson. My daughter Billie has been promoted by the Civil Engagement Group.

This morning I would like to raise an issue that I do not believe has been thought about in the transport committee or by the Minister, which is the pre-booking of bus tickets for women who are fleeing domestic violence situations and who are at risk if staying in the area where their abuser is. Two days ago, when I was getting on the bus it made me think. Because I did not have a pre-booked ticket I had to wait at the end of the queue along with Billie. It made me think outside the box and of those people who may be trying to escape violent situations and how it is possible. We need to look at this. The Minister for Transport needs to look at how we can make it more fair for people to be able to get onto buses without having a pre-booked ticket.

Something really struck me in the House yesterday. We can have a conversation and we are allowed to talk about Black Lives Matter. It is very important that we have discussions around Black Lives Matter and black lives do matter. It is not about how we do it; it is about the way we do it.This is not a House for racism and discrimination towards any community. They can call me a "dramatic left", "far left" or whatever the hell they want to call me. I will not accept racism in a House-----

Photo of Eileen FlynnEileen Flynn (Independent)
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-----where I am sitting. Yes, let us have the conversations, but they cannot be racist conversations. My child, who is here beside me, cannot help that she is a full member of the Traveller community and a full member of the settled community. She was born into this world. We cannot help it if we are working-class people, if we are black people or if we are Traveller people. We did not ask to be brought into these communities, but we are trying to make the most of it. The last thing we need is public representatives making our lives any more difficult. I bring that to the attention of this House today. I would like to thank my colleagues in the House who, when they see racism, they address it or support me in addressing it.

Photo of John McGahonJohn McGahon (Fine Gael)
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I would like to follow on from the points made by Senator Gallagher. The Good Friday committee, of which I am a member, went on a trip to Belfast approximately a year ago. We met with the families of the disappeared. We met with Oliver McVeigh, who is Columba McVeigh's brother. It is utterly heartbreaking to say the least. I am praying for the McVeigh family and I hope that finally after so many years that they can take their loved one home, give him a Christian burial, and look after him so that he is not left out there in the dirt, alone.

Today, we are nine days on from the budget. The Minister for Education, Deputy Foley, made a really good announcement in the budget press conference in relation to school transport, which is an issue that many in this House have raised. I am not asking for the Minister to come back into the House and I am not asking for another debate on it, because to be fair to the Minister, she has taken Commencement matters and she has taken a Private Members' motion in this House. This has been dealt with in quite a lot of detail. The result that we wanted was the result that came out of it, which is that additional funding has been set aside. The Department is looking to try to sort out those capacity issues. What I would like is to get some real detail from the Department, and that is why I am speaking today about it. What is happening now? We are now nine days on from the budget. We have gotten one email from the Department to say it is looking at it and it is trying address capacity issues.

How many children in this country are still without a bus ticket? How many people's issues have now been resolved? What is the plan? We have been asking for the last five or six weeks and we have been working hard to try to make sure we have a plan in place. The Minister has now put that money aside. The money has been put aside and the Minister wants to fix the issue, but what is the plan as to how it will be fixed? That is what I want to know and that is why I have raised it today in the Seanad.

I would appreciate it if we could use this House and the Leader's office to try to engage with the Minister to find out what the plan is and what the timeline is for it. These families have are now six or seven weeks into not having a bus. They got really good news last week with the budget. We are really happy with that and I commend the Minister on that, but I want to know what the timeframe is and when it will be resolved.

Photo of Shane CassellsShane Cassells (Fianna Fail)
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I call Senator Carrigy and I welcome Ciara from his office, who is from Luxembourg and who is a student in Trinity College Dublin.

Photo of Micheál CarrigyMicheál Carrigy (Fine Gael)
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I thank the Acting Chairperson for the warm welcome to Ciara. I am looking for debate, and possibly a joint debate with the Ministers of State, Deputies Rabbitte and Madigan, on the issue of summer provision. We have had numerous discussions on the subject at the Joint Committee on Autism. If we want to make changes for summer 2023, those changes need to be made now. We had a number of teachers' unions and representative bodies before the committee yesterday. They highlighted the lack of teachers who are taking part and the lack of teachers who are putting themselves forward for summer provision and, therefore, the severe lack of schools providing the summer provision.

The reality is that 80% of the children, particularly those in special schools, got no summer provision last year. That is more than 6,500 kids with severe needs who got no provision. Those children regressed by the time they went back to school. We need to address that issue now. I am looking for a joint debate on the summer provision for 2023 with both Ministers of State.

I concur with the comments made by Senator Casey with regard to tourism and the 9% VAT. A number of months ago we met at committee level with the Irish Hotels Federation on the issue of price gouging in hotels. The reality is, however, that these were hotels in Dublin, in particular. That has created the situation where there is no talk of the VAT rate being extended. The final answer on that has yet to be fully decided. We need a conversation about it and to ensure we maintain our industry. As Senator Buttimer said, it is not just hotels, but it is across the whole sector, including cafés. If we look at a number of countries in Europe, they split the VAT rate between restaurants and hotels.

Last August, I was in the Diamond Coast Hotel in Enniscrone. We spent three nights there as a family of five for €700. This was in the month of August. That was reasonable. That was replicated throughout the country. It just seemed to be in Dublin, in particular, that there were these severely prices. I do not think everybody else should pay for that.

Photo of Shane CassellsShane Cassells (Fianna Fail)
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I welcome Eddie O'Reilly from Longford, who has served the nation with distinction in the Defence Forces. This is his first time to visit the Houses of the Oireachtas. He joins us with Deputy Flaherty. I call on Senator Mullen and I apologise for skipping over him earlier.

Photo of Rónán MullenRónán Mullen (Independent)
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Not at all.

There are two brief comments that I would like to make on rule of law issues but they touch on areas where we may need a debate. There is a man who continues to be in prison because he will not purge his contempt in relation to a civil matter. I am on the record as saying that the man in question, Mr. Enoch Burke, should purge his contempt. I am concerned nevertheless about how, in a civil dispute on a relatively minor matter, a person could end up in jail for a considerable period of time and, in this case, regarding a matter that cannot be dealt with until at least Christmas in relation to the substantive issue of dispute.

I understand clearly the courts have to uphold the rule of law. At the same time, when one considers there are many reasons a person might not purge contempt, and there was a spectrum of virtue here ranging from a high conscience to sheer stubbornness, nonetheless, the court has to be concerned about the rule of law itself being brought into dispute where, in relatively minor matter, a person could continue to languish in prison for a long period of time. I wonder whether other solutions can be found and whether we should help by discussing what legislative measures might bring into being alternative solutions.

The second issue I would like to raise briefly is that of two retired judges who were appointed to the Dubai International Financial Centre, DIFC, Courts during the summer. I believe senior agents of the State would have nominated them and encouraged them to take up those positions. Nonetheless, after a campaign involving people such as the leader of the Labour Party and many others, they were effectively forced to step back from these positions that they had taken up and that they had been approached about.

I am concerned about a trial-by-Twitter culture that puts pressure on private citizens in situations where the State itself fails to take a lead. I have taken a lead by criticising the State's engagement with China. I warn about our trade and other links with authoritarian regimes in China, the Middle East and elsewhere. However, where we have a situation where the State is happy to do business with all sorts of regimes and takes a pragmatic approach to these matters, it is wrong that private citizens can be ganged up on and can be pointed at. It is easy to point at other people, to embarrass them and to say what they ought or ought not to do. Politicians let themselves down by getting on that particular bandwagon over the summer. People have a right, as private citizens, to consider proposals that are put to them. However, where the State, acting on behalf of the community fails to take a lead, it is a lamentable episode when private citizens then find themselves targeted for making what they regarded as a reasonable decision to take up a particular role. The very agents of the State who perhaps encouraged them to take up the role were silent when they came under pressure. There was something very unfair about that.

Photo of Aisling DolanAisling Dolan (Fine Gael)
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Tens of thousands of people came into Ballinasloe this weekend for the Ballinasloe Fair and Festival. It was wonderful because it has not run for the last two years. This was its 300th anniversary. It was about meeting family and friends and about having a lot of craic and ceol in the town. We had music and bands, particularly those that are well-known locally, although they are well-known nationally as well, from Mike Denver to Rachel Goode. The committee, together with Galway County Council, had put together an excellent programme of events. It was not just last weekend. It will be on this weekend as well.There will be fireworks on Friday night. This is such a real entertainment for young people and children in our area and their families. There is a vintage show and craft fair this Sunday so I encourage people to come out and engage again, particularly older people. It is so crucial to come back and engage.

I acknowledged Damian Browne, the man who rowed from New York to Galway. This was a marathon 112-day journey. He is incredible. He came back to his wife and child. He had a little engagement with the rocks at Furbo along the way but he got into Galway and he did it. Talk about resilience and strength. He fund-raised for four different charities and raised more than €50,000, so I just acknowledge Damian Browne.

Photo of Lisa ChambersLisa Chambers (Fianna Fail)
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We are a little constrained on time because Lord McFall is coming in. Senator O'Loughlin spoke about her meeting with Jason Poole regarding his sister, who we know lost her life to domestic violence. The Senator reiterated the call for a domestic violence register of offenders that would be accessed by An Garda Síochána and possibly potential victims. It is the strong belief of Jason Poole that Jennifer would not have lost her life had that register been available. A debate with the Minister for Justice has been requested. This will happen in the next few weeks. I think it will be towards the end of the month. We are finalising what topics will be covered because there is a wide range to address in terms of antisocial behaviour and other justice areas and the Minister has not appeared in the Seanad for a quite some time. It may be the case she will need to come back to the House for a second debate if it is not appropriate to group certain topics together.

Senator O'Loughlin also spoke about the Adoption Authority of Ireland and the birth tracing and information legislation that has got up and running. Four hundred applications were received on Monday. She congratulated Eric Donovan and Fintan Bray. Eric Donovan has become European boxing champion. My party colleague Fintan Bray was the first person with Down's syndrome to be elected to a senior position in any party in the country. I congratulate him on his election and wish him well for the term ahead.

Senator Seery Kearney spoke about the approval by two Oireachtas committees of a request to release information from an Oireachtas laptop. I do not propose to get into that. People will understand the sensitivities around that matter, which is the subject of a criminal investigation. She also raised issues around surrogacy and comments by another Member in yesterday's debate - references to it being simply a contract. Obviously, she disagrees with those comments. Again, I do not propose to get into a back-and-forth between two Members.

Senator Clonan spoke about the debate last night on the high-level action plan for implementing the recommendations of the Commission on the Defence Forces. We had a very good debate. I have put a request in through the Leader's office to get the Minister for Defence back into the Chamber at the earliest opportunity. I thank him for being willing to come back in because he did not get much time yesterday to go into other areas. There is a considerable degree of experience and interest in this House regarding these matters. I concur with the Senator's remarks about the Reserve Defence Force as an aid to the civil authority. There is a missed opportunity there. There may have been a closed mind going back a number of years and possibly a fear of encroaching on somebody's else's territory. I think we have moved past that and there is an opportunity there to explore the many talents and experience that reservists have to offer the country and assisting their partners in the Permanent Defence Force.

Senator Ó Donnghaile congratulated Laochra Loch Lao, the Gaeltacht football team in Antrim that won the junior B championship. He also referenced the Ireland’s Future event, which took place last weekend. He spoke about Lord McFall visiting the Oireachtas and speaking in this House today and welcomed the perceived change in tone, which I welcome, from the British Government so that things might get moving ahead in terms of Northern Ireland and wider issues.

Senator Moynihan spoke about cost rental and social housing and raised the issue of specific housing development projects in Dublin city. I am not familiar with the ins and outs of those projects. This Government has for the first time delivered cost rental units. There has been an unprecedented level of investment in housing. A total of €4.5 billion will be spent on housing next year. It has never been at this level before, so every effort is being made to address the housing crisis, which we accept is ongoing. However, it is not as though nothing is being done. I take on board the Senator's comments around green spaces, playgrounds and community facilities, but local authorities are giving funding to provide those amenities. That is their bread and butter. That is their task. If there is a shortfall in funding, an application should be made to the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage to address that, but that should not prevent housing projects being delivered. I think Senator Moynihan said it was 20 years for one particular project. I would say there probably needs to be some accountability as to why a project has taken 20 years for and still has not yet been delivered. I am not sure if that is the fault of the Minister.

Senator Black extended her sympathies to the Mason family on the loss of Rory, who was fighting in Ukraine. I concur with her remarks in that regard. She also referenced Ireland's Future. Senator Horkan welcomed the debate later with Lord McFall.

Senator Cummins requested a debate with the Minister for Social Protection and that request has gone in. That will probably form part of our budget debate but the request has been submitted.

Senator Keogan asked for a debate on housing and I will make that request. I take on board her point around the tracker mortgage scandal and the loss of family homes. It does not matter what fine is given, you will never repair the damage done to those families. The banks have a lot to answer for in that regard. I was glad to see quite a hefty fine levied on Bank of Ireland, but it will never recover what those families lost. That is the long and the short of it.

Senator Casey raised the issue of the VAT rate on hospitality. Both he and Senator Buttimer requested a debate on that issue and a wider debate on hospitality and tourism, which has been requested.

Senator Boylan spoke about IBEC's objection to domestic violence leave. I share her views. IBEC asked for an economic analysis by Government to be completed to see if the cost benefit existed for employers to provide paid leave. I think it is missing the point entirely. If we are serious about eradicating the scourge of violence against women in this country, everybody needs to get on board. We need employers on board. The Government needs to assist employers, especially SMEs, in meeting that additional cost so there is a balance to be struck. IBEC needs to reflect on its position. Its lobbying was disappointing.

Senator McGreehan spoke about fuel poverty and referenced Energy Cloud, the need to reduce waste and the number of families facing fuel poverty this winter. It was welcome to see a €12 increase across the board in social welfare payments, once-off €500 payments to many households and an increase in the threshold for the fuel allowance. Many more families will receive the fuel allowance this winter and for a longer period so the Government has provided a substantial social welfare package in that regard.

Senator Maria Byrne spoke about schools in Limerick under the Creative Schools programme and the funding they will get.

Senator Gallagher's contribution this morning was very emotional. It is a difficult one to respond to. My heart goes out to Oliver McVeigh and all of the McVeigh family on the loss of Columba and the fact that they have not been able to recover his body. I sincerely hope that, one day, they will get the closure they need and that Columba is laid to rest with his parents. They have had to go through and are still going through a heartbreaking situation. I welcome the fact that the search has been resumed.

Senator Flynn spoke about the pre-booking of tickets and how that might impact somebody fleeing domestic violence. That is an interesting point I had not previously considered. She also spoke about language, as she often does, and the need for respectful debate.

Senator McGahon spoke about school transport. I am pleased to give an update to the House. Obviously, it was fantastic to see that the Minister for Education secured additional funding to put on extra buses to get extra capacity. Bus Éireann has been tasked with securing extra buses and drivers. If we are honest about it, the Minister cannot magic up extra buses or drivers. Every effort is being made to find those. Families who applied on time and previously had concessionary tickets will be prioritised, which was sought and with which I agree.

Senator Carrigy spoke about the summer provision and has requested a joint debate with the Minister of State, Deputy Madigan, and the Minister of State, Deputy Rabbitte. I do not believe there is provision to have a joint debate with two Ministers at the same time. My understanding is it is under the remit of the Minister of State, Deputy Madigan. A request will go to her office to request that debate at the earliest opportunity.

Senator Mullen spoke about the case of Enoch Burke, a fellow county person. I would be aware of the situation. I agree with the Senator's comments. I think it does fall on the lower end of the scale in terms of offences. I was surprised to see he ended up in Mountjoy Prison, which is usually home to some more serious offenders. I think the matter should be expedited. Having spoken to the governor of Mountjoy previously on a visit, he would be of the view that there are many people in that prison who should not be there and would be better served with other solutions, and I believe Enoch Burke is one of those people.

Photo of Rónán MullenRónán Mullen (Independent)
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It is a civil matter rather than a criminal one.

Photo of Lisa ChambersLisa Chambers (Fianna Fail)
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Obviously, the rule of law is paramount. The charge against him in terms of contempt of court was correct and he does need to come forward on that front, but I do take the Senator's point that it seems a very heavy-handed outcome in terms of the actual offence.Rather than getting into it, I would agree with the Senator that trial by Twitter is not the way we should be doing things. Sometimes the first voice out can be the loudest and can silence other voices. I also believe in the freedom of private citizens to make their own decisions. It is not for everyone to jump on the bandwagon. It was an unsavoury episode that we can learn a lot from.

Senator Dolan spoke about the Ballinasloe Festival. She often speaks about Ballinasloe. A week does not go by when she does not. I wish them well with the festival.

Photo of Shane CassellsShane Cassells (Fianna Fail)
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In respect of the discourse between the Deputy Leader and Senator Mullen, we are all aware that the judgments of the courts are not being criticised here.

Photo of Lisa ChambersLisa Chambers (Fianna Fail)
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Absolutely not.

Photo of Shane CassellsShane Cassells (Fianna Fail)
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It is important to put that on the record.

Photo of Lisa ChambersLisa Chambers (Fianna Fail)
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I, of course, agree with the comments of the courts.

Order of Business agreed to.

Cuireadh an Seanad ar fionraí ar 12.41 p.m. agus cuireadh tús leis arís ar 12.52 p.m.

Sitting suspended at 12.41 p.m. and resumed at 12.52 p.m.