Seanad debates

Wednesday, 5 October 2022

10:30 am

Photo of Niall Ó DonnghaileNiall Ó Donnghaile (Sinn Fein)
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I move:

That Seanad Éireann calls on the Minister for Foreign Affairs, in light of the current backlog and volume of applications on the island of Ireland, including an unprecedented number from Northern Ireland, to consider as a matter of urgency opening a Passport Office in Belfast.

Photo of Lynn BoylanLynn Boylan (Sinn Fein)
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I second the motion.

Photo of Niall Ó DonnghaileNiall Ó Donnghaile (Sinn Fein)
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Cuirim fáilte roimh an Aire Stáit agus ba mhaith liom a léiriú go bhfuil mé an-bhuíoch de go bhfuil an seal agam an rún seo a chur os comhair an tSeanaid agus go bhfuil an deis againn an t-ábhar tábhachtach seo a phlé. Is é seo ábhar atá luaite agamsa go mion minic sa Seanad seo agus i Seanad an téarma dheireanaigh. Ar na mallaibh, tá mé sásta a rá go bhfuil sé luaite agus tacaithe ag a lán Seanadóirí ó achan grúpa sa Seanad mar gheall go ritheann sé le ciall go mbeadh a leithéid d'oifig, a leithéid de sheirbhís agus a leithéid de chearta ar fáil do mhuintir na Sé Chontae. I thank the Minister of State for joining us for tonight's debate and welcome the opportunity, alongside colleagues, to speak in the debate and to move the motion. In doing so I will give the Minister of State, so he has a clear understanding of where I am coming from, a little context. It was actually the Minister of State's party colleague and my Seanad colleague and friend, Senator Wilson, who tabled a motion exactly the same as this one. That motion received cross-party signatures in the Seanad. We had signatories from Fianna Fáil, Fine Gael, Sinn Féin and the Independent Group. That motion was submitted in June of this year. It is identical in its wording to tonight's motion. I understand the competition there is among the larger groups for Private Members' business slots, and there is competition among the smaller groups for such slots as well, so I am really happy my colleagues in the Seanad agreed we could use our Private Members' time to move this motion because it is an important one. I think I am right in saying the Minister of State has been before the Seanad to take Commencement matters on this issue from me in the past. Certainly, the Minister, Deputy Coveney, has done so numerous times, in both the Twenty-sixth and Twenty-fifth Seanaid. Before him, the former Minister, Deputy Flanagan, also often did so.

There are a couple of important points to make about this issue. I say all this in a non-party-political and non-ideological way. I say what I am about to say tonight and in every debate on this issue in the context of services, the need and demand for services and the expectation that they be delivered in an accessible and tangible way to people closest to where they need them.

For the first time ever, last year, in the North, and this is significant, more people applied for an Irish passport than for a British one. That is indicative of the steady, if not sharp, incline in applications for Irish passports, particularly after Brexit. I always think of an anecdotal story when talking about this issue. The morning after the Brexit result, my local post office, in the staunchly loyalist and very proudly unionist and loyalist community of the Lower Newtownards Road, ran out of Irish passport applications. The recent census figures in the North showed a 63.5% increase in Irish passport holders there. The Minister might say - and he would have an argument but I would have a counter - that all those figures show that the passport service is working fine and does not need any additional infrastructure or improvement. He might say that post offices across the North offer a passport express service and that that is sufficient. However, many colleagues have experienced similar issues in their constituencies right across the island. We know that when there has been a problem, it has been proven that there have been delays. There has been a particular problem with either the applicants themselves or us as political representatives being able to get through to speak to a human being.There is an issue in the North in particular, because of the nature of the passport express service through the post office. While it is a very pleasant and efficient experience to submit your paper copy of an application at the post office, and I do not deny that, if you encounter a problem or an issue with your application, you cannot go back to the post office and ask to speak to someone about your passport application, if it has been delayed and if you cannot get through to the Passport Office. The post office staff will just look at you and say that they cannot help with that; the application is gone in.

All of these issues indicate the clear rationale and clear need for a passport office in the North. I was very happy to sign the previous motion that was tabled on a cross-party basis. I am not hung up on where such a passport office is located. A lot of people west of the Bann would make a very justifiable and understandable call, given the deficit of service infrastructure there, for an office in that area which could service not just Derry, Coleraine, Omagh and Strabane but also Donegal, Sligo, Leitrim and further afield. The real issue here, as shown by my own online petition which has over 32,000 signatures, is that an office in the North is needed.

What I am always conscious of and very careful about is acknowledging the absolutely fantastic work of the Passport Office staff. It was a particularly difficult time during Covid, when services were reduced right across various sectors but people stepped up and did great work. It has not been easy. Like many colleagues across the Chamber, I have dealt with lots of emergency situations and the people in the Passport Office have been extremely helpful, attentive and understanding in bringing a resolution to peoples' particular issues. That is really fantastic and is very much appreciated by me and by the people on whose behalf I make representations. Alongside that, however, there are many experiences where that has not been the case. That is not the fault of the Passport Office staff and by no means am I suggesting that it is. Part of the rationale for calling for investment in further services and infrastructure is to lift the burden on existing Passport Office staff, to spread and share the load and to ensure that the staff in existing sites and locations are not dealing with the huge volume of applications we have seen in recent months and on various sporadic occasions over the last number of years.

Another issue that I raise quite regularly in this House is Article 2 of the Constitution, which talks about the right and entitlement of everyone born on the island of Ireland to be part of the Irish nation and probably the most common expression of that is the holding of a passport. I also make the case quite regularly that the Government must give effect, in a more tangible way, to that article of Bunreacht na hÉireann. Irish citizens, no matter where they are on this island, deserve services. They deserve the ability to be able to engage with a human being. Many times people have said to me that if someone could tell them that their application will take six weeks and they know that, then they would be okay. The problem is that they have spent hours and hours on the phone or on the webchat and have not been able to get clarity. A lot of this is about ensuring that people have the opportunity to go in and speak to a human being about their particular case.

In our budget submission, Sinn Féin has allocated finances for the opening of a dedicated branch of the Passport Office in the North. People pay for this service and that is an important point to remember. When they pay for a service they should be given the highest standard of service. An Irish passport is a very precious, important and symbolic document. We all value it, what it gives to us and what it means for us internationally. All I am arguing for and all that this motion argues for is that we would improve on foot of the lessons learned. I ask that we would learn from our experience, particularly over the past number of months, and hear the calls for greater collaboration, greater sharing of resources and infrastructure across our island and ensure that people have the opportunity and the ability to avail of an important investment by the Government, not just in an office and in passports, but in people, an investment that says to them they are valued and are part of the Irish nation. The Government can show people they are valued by investing in an office where they can go to avail of one of the very fundamental, important and basic rights and entitlements.

I hope colleagues will support this motion. I am absolutely certain they will not oppose it. I look forward to hearing the contributions of colleagues and to concluding tonight's debate.

Photo of Lynn BoylanLynn Boylan (Sinn Fein)
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Cuirim fáilte roimh an Aire Stáit. My colleague, Senator Ó Donnghaile, has outlined clearly why a Passport Office branch in the North makes sense. In 2020 the number of Irish passports being issued in the North surpassed British passports for the first time. A total of 48,555 citizens applied for a British passport, which was 356 fewer than those who opted for an Irish passport in the same year. Since then, the gap has become even more pronounced, with the number of applications for Irish passports more than double the number for British passports in January and February of this year. In the context of those figures, if the British Government can run a passport office to service a smaller number of passport applications, then surely our Government should be looking again at the proposal for an Irish passport office in the North. We have a branch of the Passport Office in London, I believe, in recognition of the large number of passport applications that come from there.

Last night there was a debate in Newry, Mourne and Down District Council about the need for an Irish passport office. The motion tabled enjoyed cross-party support with a majority of 27 in the Chamber from Sinn Féin, the SDLP, and Alliance voting in favour, while Derry City and Strabane District Council has already passed a motion calling for the same. Again, as Senator Ó Donnghaile has pointed out, our Private Members' motion has been co-signed by Members from across this House. There is huge cross-party support for the idea of a passport office in the North and now we just need to make it happen.

Senator Ó Donnghaile has long campaigned on this issue and his petition has over 30,000 signatures. Apart from the point about the need for a Passport Office branch, given the level of demand, there is also the issue of practicality. We all know that applying for a passport is great when one can go online or into the post office. There have been reports of people receiving their passport the day after their application was submitted. However, when the process goes wrong it is a very different story and one needs to be able to attend at an office to get things sorted. Currently people from the North, as well as from Donegal or Sligo, have to travel to Cork or Dublin to get issues resolved.

I am not the only one whose soundtrack to this summer was the waiting music of the Passport Office. A lot of us in this Chamber had that tune in our heads and probably still have nightmares about it. That said, when we got through to somebody, the service was excellent. There were many heartbreaking stories but the vast majority of the cases I dealt with involved people from the North who were in a panic trying to get their passports. As has already been pointed out, there are complications when one is dealing with two different postal services. Another Passport Office branch would add extra capacity and would allow people to get reassurances when applications go wrong. As I said, the staff at the Passport Office were great, given the pressure they were under but when I was talking to people on the phone who were very anxious about whether they would get their passport on time for a wedding, or in some cases for a funeral, they often spoke about the different experience when applying for a British passport, which would take three weeks. They knew they would get it in three weeks.People who identify for Irish citizenship deserve a similar treatment. Not only would having an office reduce the pressure on the two offices we have but it would also enable people to have that in-person contact when things go wrong with their application. I hope the Minister of State will respond favourably and support this motion and that others across the House will do likewise.

Photo of Lisa ChambersLisa Chambers (Fianna Fail)
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I welcome this debate on the Passport Office.

Photo of Mark DalyMark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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Is the Senator sharing time?

Photo of Lisa ChambersLisa Chambers (Fianna Fail)
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I am sharing time with Senator McGreehan.

We had considerable issues with the Passport Office going back a number of months and I was one the Members in this Chamber saying that there were significant issues. I am pleased to see that there has been a huge turnaround. Someone very close to me put in an application online on a Friday and it arrived in the post on Monday, which is a remarkable turnaround time. I pay tribute to the Passport Office for listening to the concerns raised by Members in both Houses. Extra staff were put in, they made a real effort to deal with Members, there was a special line for us, and that in itself shows that the office was listening to the concerns. I am disappointed that there is not a piece in the motion looking for a passport office in the west as it is another region of the country where there is no passport office. That is not to take away from the points raised by my colleagues about Northern Ireland; just a point to note. For people in Mayo, where I live, we travel to Dublin if we need an emergency appointment, which is a lot further than getting to Dublin from any parts of Northern Ireland. We are moving into a digital age. In excess of 90% of applications go in online, perhaps even 97%. Therefore we have to justify the cost of opening an office as well. If everyone is online and an office is opened, that is being paid for out of the Exchequer and people's taxes. Nobody using it would be a waste as well. It will be interesting to hear what is the cost involved will be; where it will go; what the usage might be given the number of applications that go in online. We have to bear in mind that people in lots of parts of the rest of the country still have to travel considerable distances for that emergency application, if and when it does arise. To be fair, those appointments are now easy enough to get and the turnaround is pretty good. There will always be that small percentage where the turnaround has not been fantastic but by and large, today it is a very good service.

Photo of Erin McGreehanErin McGreehan (Fianna Fail)
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I welcome the Minister of State to the House. I am a huge supporter of the motion and it is very simple for me. It is this island's second city and I support the motion and always have done. I am biased, being from County Louth and living between the two capital cities of this island, I believe we should have a passport office in Belfast. I am more prescriptive than the Senator who mentions anywhere in the North but I say it should be in Belfast. Senator Ó Donnghaile put out all the practical reasons. We spoke about the demand and the efficiencies that could be made; again all very practical issues. Other Senators spoke about the symbol of the Irish passport and for me also, when I got my passport on my first trip abroad when I was 17, it was a big deal. I was very proud to get my Irish passport. I still have my very first one in the drawer. It means a lot to me. That symbol and symbolism in general, is very important on this island. There is an argument for it because of that huge symbol and it is important that we have a passport office in Belfast. I follow on from other work my Fianna Fáil colleagues and I, as well as my Social Democratic and Labour Party, SDLP, colleagues, have been doing in calling for the franchise for the presidential elections to be extended to people in the North. According to our Constitution, they are entitled. They are Irish citizens and I fundamentally believe that that referendum and Bill should be moved to extend that franchise to our citizens, friends and family in the North and have their votes heard in the next presidential election.

Photo of Joe O'ReillyJoe O'Reilly (Fine Gael)
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At the outset, I congratulate Senators Ó Donnghaile and Boylan for bringing forward this important matter. It is an important discussion that should be held in the Seanad. Well done to them on that. We will not be opposing the motion, as was anticipated correctly. We have no difficulty with this at all, in principle or in practice.

The first thing I raise is that I assume this office would be available to people in Ulster generally, and not just in the Six Counties that constitute Northern Ireland? It would be important for people in Cavan, Monaghan and Donegal and indeed Louth, to be able to access the office and use it. I presume the Minister of State will indicate his support for that to ensure we vote for or not oppose the motion. It is important that we do that. I have said privately to Senator Ó Donnghaile in the past that we should have much more interaction. We should contrive to make reasons to bring people north and south in this country. That is very important and this could be one way.

I agree with Senator Chambers regarding Mayo. Why not put a passport office into the west of Ireland? I presume that in no way thwarts the other. I wish to bring a perspective on how successful the passport situation has been. We have had the difficulties but great strides have been made and it is important to draw attention to this. Up to mid-July of this year, 720,000 passports have been issued. That is in contrast to 630,000 in 2021. The numbers are 20% up on a peak year in 2019. There has been a 40% increase in the online time, certainly for renewals anyway. Currently, 6,000 passports a day are being issued. There is a ten-day delay online for renewal and that is not bad. Since June, 570 new staff have been recruited into the Passport Office. These are good things. That it is not to suggest there was not a problem but the Government is addressing the problem with vigour and with a huge amount of success. It is wonderful on a number of levels that we had the inundation of applications for passports. It is great to see people from Northern Ireland and the UK seeking Irish passports. That is just wonderful and something to be very proud of as a country. We have come a lot way to have reached that point and that is good. It is wonderful to see those requests and demand levels.

It is also wonderful to see the mobility of our people now and the degree to which people are fit to travel. Travel is so much part of the reality of people's lives. Senator Craughwell and I occasionally reminisce about life when we were younger and talk about how it might not have been as ideal as we like to romanticise it retrospectively. We have had those discussions in the House a few times. Looking back to my childhood, air fare was prohibitive for most people. It was a very rare thing for people to go on holidays and for long-term, even successful emigrants, to get home; particularly if they were in America or beyond the UK. It is great progress and is great to see mobility among people travelling and people living in a wider world, landscape and experience. That is good. It is good to see the demand for passports and that we are addressing that demand, as we should.

To return to the core of the motion, neither I nor my party have any problem with the motion. There will be at least one further speaker who will indicate similarly. We will be supporting the motion. It is a good motion. It should be done, by the way, and not just be a motion of the Seanad. I would like to hear the Minister of State give a commitment to do something about it because it is a worthy measure. I acknowledge there are issues around viability as a certain volume is required to be viable but the cloth could be cut according to the measure and have a small office. Some elaborate monstrosity of an office would not be needed if you are not going to have the kind of volume that would justify that. That kind of office might only point up the lack of activity in it so you would be better with a small physical office that was busy than a large building that was not.

It is a good motion and a good discussion. The Seanad is addressing a real issue which could be good if it also caused a greater movement. Something I personally will come back to and have a big thing about is mechanisms to bring people up North. We should do it through the sports capital grant, through a number of mechanisms and ways.Movement north is very important for southern people and there is not enough of it. We tend to be very Dublin-centric, even in Ulster, and that is not how it should be. The time is nicely up. I have managed to fill the time.

Photo of Niall Ó DonnghaileNiall Ó Donnghaile (Sinn Fein)
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Well done; good man.

Photo of Joe O'ReillyJoe O'Reilly (Fine Gael)
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There is a certain level of elasticity there. Anyway, to return to the core topic, I am completely in support of the motion.

Photo of Vincent P MartinVincent P Martin (Green Party)
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I commend the motion. The proposer of the motion cited Article 2 of Bunreacht na hÉireann and other contributors have referred to the symbolic nature of the motion, as well as the substantive point. Article 4 of the Constitution states "The name of the State is Éire, or, in the English language, Ireland." Article 5 of the Constitution proclaims "Ireland is a sovereign, independent, democratic state." The Constitution establishes a polity that can be safely described as republican just as France or the United States are republican. This fundamental legal position of the State can only ever change by way of referendum. In 1948, on the enactment of the Republic of Ireland Bill the State was described as a republic. The Act went further and its section 2 declared "that the description of the State shall be the Republic of Ireland". The designation, "Republic of Ireland" under statute law is not the name of the State, which is confined to the Constitution's definition, namely, Ireland, or Éire. "The Republic of Ireland" is not the name of the State; Ireland is her name. Why then the necessity to create this distinction and ascribe the State a name that is not hers?

The description, "Republic of Ireland" is not all-island inclusive. It reinforces two islands, two Irelands and a them and us, while "Ireland" is inclusive because we are all Irish. Ireland is the land of green and orange. It is our common home and our common and shared birthright. The new generations of Irish who come here from all over the world do not come here to the Republic of Ireland but come to Ireland, where they live and make their home. The year 1948 was a long time ago and a very different time in our State's young history. It was a period when our new State shifted further from the people of Northern Ireland. The outbreak of violence strengthened, solidified and defined that divide. The legislators of the 1940s hardly envisaged the recent census statistics published in Northern Ireland that show the number of Catholics exceeding the number of Protestants for the first time. Nor could those legislators have foreseen what happened in 1998, when the Good Friday Agreement was endorsed by a majority of people on the island, North and South, the people in the Republic voted to give up its territorial claim to the Six Counties and all embraced a consent principle of recognising the wishes of the majority of the people of Northern Ireland to decide its own destiny.

In the 1980s a young boxer from Clones gave us a glimpse of what normalised life could be like when people from the Falls Road and the Shankill Road came together to support Barry McGuigan. They parked their often-deadly political differences to cheer on one of their own. Recently, Kildare's popular Eric "Lilywhite Lightening" Donovan heroically won a prestigious EU boxing title in Belfast against Frenchman Khalil El Hadri. However, Donovan was introduced in Belfast as a boxer representing the Republic of Ireland. Imagine if he had been introduced and announced as representing Ireland, which, as a matter of constitutional fact, he was. The attendees in Belfast who were from Northern Ireland and the thousands more watching live on television throughout the island, especially those from both traditions in the North, would perhaps have felt an even closer affinity to the occasion and, one would hope, with each other.

For those who wish to bring deeper unity to our island, the use of the term "Republic of Ireland" should be ceased. Therefore, appropriate amending legislation ought to be seriously considered as a part of a thorough consultation process. Some might say this amounts only to playing with words or paying lip service but that is not the case. Symbols and gestures matter and can bring people closer together, just as they can drive people apart. The Queen's visit demonstrated the transformative power of gesture in the cause of reconciliation. Human life does not stand still. People either come together or they can be driven apart. Our time in Europe is a time of coming together and resisting the forces that seek to break us up, of which there are many. The peoples of Ireland have come so much closer since 1998 but nobody has the right to say this march to unity must stop at a certain point and that we have come so far together but may go no further. The unity that lies ahead is not known and may not be the one expected. Those who think unity will be a win for one side are false prophets and theirs is the way of division. "Ireland" and not "the Republic of Ireland" is the way to unity.

It is easy to require others to give up symbols. What we need are symbols that represent us all, are inclusive and that point to a future and not to the past. "Ireland" is ancient, it is living and it is cultural. "The Republic of Ireland" is political, non-inclusive and of the past. We should never underestimate the power of symbol as a force to heal and reconcile. Croke Park is both place and symbol. It is a sacred place for some and a symbol of Irishness. In 2007 the British anthem was played there as Irish rugby players from every corner of the island prepared to take on their English counterparts. The tens of thousands of people present listened in spine-tingling, respectful silence. That was a moment of catharsis, a moment when Ireland was changed forever and a new and confident dawn broke out. It was a moment of inclusion and respect taking place on hallowed turf, brought together by the sporting prowess of young men from every part of the island of Ireland. These young men, lest we forget, represented Ireland and not the Republic of Ireland.

At an appropriate time, when a once-in-a-generation Border poll is conducted the challenge is to win the hearts and minds of the majority of the people. This will involve demonstrating a generosity of substance from the get-go and an empathy for the opposing communities' concerns. In the interim and as a stepping-stone to unity, there is room to consider innovative legislation because this shows intent at the beginning of the way one wants to proceed. This motion is innovative and part of a bigger picture that shows intent and inclusivity. I commend and support it.

Photo of Mark DalyMark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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Before I call on Senator Sherlock, I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Feighan, and his guests to the Gallery. I thank them for attending Seanad Éireann today.

Photo of Marie SherlockMarie Sherlock (Labour)
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I thank the Minister of State, Deputy Byrne, for coming to the House. I warmly welcome the motion and thank An Seanadóir Ó Donnghaile and his Sinn Féin colleagues for bringing it forward. We in the Labour Party very much support it.

As has been said a number of times, we have all seen the massive surge on the island of Ireland for Irish passports over the last 18 months in particular and the frustrations that were associated with all that. It is also important to acknowledge that we saw a significant response from Government on the resourcing of the passport service. On the waiting times, I have detected a reduction in those frustrations out there. I am also conscious the concept of a physical passport office is something fewer and fewer people are having to engage with any more. That is because of the excellent online ordering service and the post office service that is available. Due to those, many of us never have to darken the door of the Passport Office. However, to rely on that as an argument to dismiss the need for an office in Belfast would be a mistake and in some ways misses the point. It misses the point on both a political level and a practical one. It is political because people in the North have an entitlement to identify as Irish citizens and therefore an entitlement to an Irish passport. That right is unique outside this jurisdiction and happens nowhere else in the world. We must treat that right to citizenship with the dignity and respect it deserves. On a practical level, few of us need to engage with the physical passport service any more but when we need it, by God do people need it, especially when they need the urgent appointment service. I have dealt with people, especially in Donegal, over the last number of months who end up having to travel the long distance to Dublin when it would be two hours to Belfast.For people in the North, and in the north west, there is a real and practical importance to having a passport service in the North. It is also important to pay tribute to the three Passport Office locations we have in the South. While it can often seem like there is a two or three-day delay in the online urgent appointments service, or certainly this was the case up to the middle of the summer anyway regarding any of the cases I was dealing with, my advice to people was always to get into the car and turn up at the nearest office at 9 a.m. People were then seen that day.

If people are living many hours' drive from an office, however, will they take the risk of turning up, not knowing if they are going to be seen that day, unless they are given direct advice to do so? In fairness, and this was not stated publicly, people who turned up at the offices were being seen within a few hours of arriving. Therefore, there is a real and practical importance associated with having a physical office in a location to provide passport services in an area across the north west and the North where well over 1 million Irish citizens live. I commend this motion. It is important politically and practically that we see progress on this issue. It is also important to acknowledge that there has been cross-party support for this development for some time, so we do need to see some progress now being made by the Government in this regard.

Photo of Emer CurrieEmer Currie (Fine Gael)
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It was most definitely the summer of the passports. All of us had nail-biting moments and long telephone waits. I thank the brilliant Passport Office staff who went out of their way to help people as much as they possibly could. An incredible 1 million passports will be issued this year. This, in itself, is good news and something to be welcomed. We must also thank the Minister of State and the Minister, Deputy Coveney, for the response to address the volume of applications. They moved mountains to bring in the resources needed, including the doubling of the number of staff since June 2021.

If I can be excused a pun, I know that the direction of travel is that we are moving towards an online application process for passports. In the North, some 87% of passports issued have originated from the passports online service. I still feel this is an important motion, however, and I support it. I also supported the motion tabled by Senator Wilson, and I think the wording is the same, before the summer recess. The problems I referred to concerning the volume of applications have been addressed. Some 84% of online renewal applications from adults have been issued in three working days or less. Since March, the turnaround time for first-time online applications has decreased by 50%, and now stands at 20 days. Therefore, the problems have been addressed.

At the same time, however, this is a practical issue for people. If people run into problems in this process, then they need to be able to access a physical office for late and urgent appointments. Even though these types of situations account for only 1% of passport applications, those 1% of people require their passports, for holidays or emergency situations, for example, and they really need these appointments. I have been on the phone enough times in recent months to know plenty of people in the North would have benefited from such appointments to try to sort out their passports before they went on their holidays. This then is a practical issue, but it is also one of principle. Based on this aspect, I also support the motion and having a branch of the Passport Office in Belfast. Equally, though, I would also like to see an office in the north west to provide services to the people of Tyrone, Derry and Fermanagh, as well as Donegal, Sligo and Mayo. It is extremely important that we have a geographical spread of these offices so people can have access in emergency situations.

To focus on some other aspects and difficulties in this regard, people applying for Irish passports in the North who went to try to get help from those MPs and the MLAs familiar to them found that even though those elected representatives could witness passport applications, they could not action them. Those of us in this House have access to the helpline, but our elected colleagues in the North do not, and this is an issue which affects them doing their job. It would help if there was a specific email address or phone number for politicians in the North. People trying to submit these passport applications are sometimes in crisis situations and they wish to be able to reach out to the public representatives they are familiar with and that they know will go the extra mile for them. I was delighted to be able to help my family and friends in Tyrone in recent months in this regard.

Turning to Passport Express, people are familiar with this process. When they go to the post office, they like to be able to check that they have everything needed for an application. That human touch is important. I am aware that we are encouraging people to migrate to online services, but, again, from a practical perspective, there are always going to be people who want to have the security, as they see it, of a paper application. The post offices in the North do run out of application forms. This is happening even in areas where it might not be expected to occur.

Therefore, I strongly support this motion. I would love to see a geographical spread of Passport Office locations across the north west, the North, Dublin and Cork. We must be building a shared island. This is what we believe in. We must also be supporting and helping people to get practical access to a service that really matters to them.

Photo of Seán KyneSeán Kyne (Fine Gael)
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I thank Sinn Féin for tabling this motion. I support it and its aims. We have had several debates on passport issues in the last year. The concerns and negativity evident in the first two debates are not as apparent today because things have improved in this regard. This is not to say there have not been difficulties this year, but there has been a sea change in delivery and turnaround times in recent months. This must be acknowledged. Equally, however, it is a very stressful ordeal and we could all give testimony concerning some of the cases people have experienced, including people having to go to the Passport Office for emergency appointments, if they can get them. Other people have missed flights or have had to change flights. Many applicants were not sure what to do, including whether to cancel a paper application and to try the online process. People have endured all sorts of difficulties in recent months due to the unprecedented demand for passport services. Therefore, anything that makes this process easier and simpler is to be welcomed.

While we are obviously moving towards the provision of more services online, even the online process can be difficult for certain people. This includes the elderly and people who are not tech savvy. Having one-on-one assistance in person, even to take the required photograph and to ensure it is valid and uploaded, can be done more easily and conveniently in a situation where it is possible to meet people from the Passport Office, upload the documentation and get the passport a few days later.Having facilities like this in Northern Ireland will be of significant assistance to our citizens there who wish to avail of an Irish passport. Approximately 11,000 passport applications are received from Northern Ireland per month, so assistance in that regard would be welcome.

I cannot advocate for there being a passport office in every county, but there are gaps. We have offices in Dublin and Cork, so the north and west would be well served by having a passport office in the North and an additional one in the west, be it in Galway, Mayo or wherever. That would be useful. It would not have to be of such a scale and size as the Dublin Passport Office. It just has to be somewhere that is secure and where people can meet staff and do the uploading.

We should be moving away from paper applications. If ready assistance is provided in more locations, paper applications can eventually be done away with. They have created problems in terms of being able to expedite them, for example, in emergencies, and they can be left for weeks before they are even looked at. They created problems over the past year when the passport service was under pressure.

Opening other offices makes sense in terms of serving our citizens and trying to make life easier for them, be they in the North or elsewhere. That should be promoted and accepted by the Government. There are always issues to consider in respect of security, printing presses and so on. I understand Cork does not have a printer. Regardless of whether it should, this is about processing applications, having contact with people, uploading data and pictures, getting those sent off and having passports printed in Dublin and sent down from there. There would not be an issue in that regard.

I agree with Senator Currie on public representatives in the Assembly and MPs having quicker access for dealing with passport queries that come across their desks. This matter was mentioned previously when the Minister, Deputy Coveney, was before us.

I acknowledge the improvements that have been made since the start of the year. There are still some issues. A colleague has been dealing with two EU citizens who are married, have children and are living in this country. A number of their children have passports but they have run into major difficulties trying to get a passport for their third or fourth child despite the fact they are resident, working and contributing here. They are from EU member states. There seem to be some issues with understanding what is required. They have been asked to provide their residency permits even though they are citizens of the EU and are entitled to be here. This has created difficulties and getting the passport has taken an inordinate amount of time. They feel aggrieved over this because they are here legitimately and are working and contributing. They are entitled to the service the same as anyone else.

While I acknowledge there have been improvements, we can go further and there are more improvements we can consider making. I welcome and support the motion.

Photo of Thomas ByrneThomas Byrne (Meath East, Fianna Fail)
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Gabhaim buíochas leis an gCathaoirleach agus leis na Comhaltaí go léir sa Seanad. Tá áthas orm an deis seo a bheith agam chun díospóireacht a dhéanamh ar an ábhar tábhachtach seo agus chun míniú a thabhairt ar an stádas reatha i seirbhís na bpasanna sa tír seo.

As we all know, the passport service was the subject of much public attention earlier this year as it dealt with an unprecedented demand as many of our citizens prepared for their first holidays overseas for some time. I am glad many Irish people got the opportunity to go abroad this year. The majority were able to get their passports and do so. That is a sign of a country that, despite our challenges, is doing well and where many people - we want there to be more - are able to avail of holidays abroad. Of course, passports in other cases were needed for purposes other than holidays, but the majority were for holidays.

Now that the dust has settled on the summer, I do not wish only to address the motion before us but to update the House on the significant improvements that have been made by the passport service this year. I thank the staff in the Passport Office for the more positive position we are in now. Senators will have seen in their constituency offices a significant drop in inquiries about passports from constituents and so on. Senators will be pleased to hear that the service in the Passport Office has returned to pre-Covid levels. I wish to make a few key points. The passport service has issued more than 940,000 passports this year. This is more passports than were issued in total in 2019, which was previously busiest year. This year, we will issue more than 1 million passports. We can be proud of this significant milestone. Of the 1 million, 10% or more will issue to Northern Ireland. There may be up to 130,000 successful applications for passports from Northern Ireland, although this year's figures are not finalised.

Turnaround times for online applications are now in line with normal pre-Covid processing times. Some 99% of all online applications are processed within the standard turnaround times and 84% of adult online renewal applications are being processed in three working days or less. This means that, if someone is renewing a passport, he or she can apply on a Monday and will more than likely have that passport in his or her hand by Wednesday or Thursday. This summer, a constituent called me on a Sunday night. He was travelling on Wednesday but his passport was out of date. I said we would try to help but that the best thing he could do would be to apply online there and then. He had the passport on the Tuesday. That is testament to our system. Almost half of child online renewal passports are issued in three working days or less.

Some comparisons have been made with Britain, although I am not sure they are entirely accurate. In Britain, it currently takes ten weeks to get a UK passport. In the USA, it takes seven to ten weeks. The Irish passport service is doing considerably better than that. For the majority of people, it has been doing considerably better than that all throughout this year. That almost half of child online renewal passports are issued within three working days is an incredible turnaround.

I understand the reasoning behind the motion, but the public is ahead of us. Almost everyone is applying online and, for those who are not, the unified message from the Seanad should be that they should apply online. There is no one on this island who needs to apply by paper. We should tell people not to go to the post office to post an application and instead to apply online. I am sure Deputies and Senators will be more than happy to assist constituents, as we have done, to fill out the form online, given that applicants will get their passports more quickly that way.

There are some issues with first-time passports, which were taking longer to issue. They will always take longer because of the security checks that need to take place. Even then, first-time applications that were taking 40 working days in March are now taking 20 working days or less. If someone's passport is out of date for more than five years, the application becomes a first-time application again. The reason for this is simple. The Department, due to data protection regulations and its own procedures, does not hold for more than 15 years the information that someone provides. As such, it no longer has the information to do a standard renewal and must go through the process all over again. We have seen some cases where people were not expecting delays but whose applications necessarily took longer because of data protection issues arising from their passports being out of date for more than five years. We need to warn people about this so that they are aware of it.

All calls to the customer service hub are being answered within five minutes - this is good and I thank the staff - and 95% of web chat inquiries are being answered consistently by the service. Currently, the Passport Office does not accept urgent appointments just to deal with queries. All queries have to go through the customer service hub, be they via phone calls or online. All that is done in person in the office is accepting urgent applications for passports. Citizens who want to inquire about the status of their applications or who have questions while they are putting their applications together can access the information they need through the hub. We have put in place a number of staffing measures to ensure this excellent level of customer service continues in the long term, particularly coming up to next summer. We had a peak at this time last year coming up to October when people were taking a chance. For them, it was their first break in a number of years.I do not see any sign of that at the moment but again if people have not checked their passports and they are going away at Hallowe'en, they should do so now. This is an unprecedented investment by the Government in this citizens' central service. That is for citizens of the entire island and all around the world. We have had 11 competitions for staff and doubled the number of staff since June of last year. We have provided new office space at the Balbriggan campus which can now accommodate over 500 staff who deal with the day-to-day processing of applications. Balbriggan is a huge operation and a massive economic boon to the area and to my own Meath East constituency.

When considering the decision as to whether to open offices, the Department has to look at a range of things. What efficiencies could be gained? Do we improve the overall level of service? Does it complement the digital first approach that promotes the use of Passport Online? Above everything else, everybody should apply online. Finally, are the substantial costs involved outweighed by the potential benefits? At the moment we have the Passport Office in Mount Street, the place in Balbriggan and an office in Cork city. London was mentioned as well. London does not really print, I think. It takes a long time to turn around a passport. The offices in Mount Street and Cork have public counters. They offer urgent appointment services for those who wish to renew their passport within one or four days in Dublin or within four days in Cork. If Senators listened to what I said earlier, 84% of online adult renewals and 50% of child online renewals are taking three working days or less, meaning that for most people the Passport Online service is faster than going to the office in Dublin or Cork in person. These are really important messages to get across to the public. Our teams are doing fantastic work.

Recent figures show that just 28% of the urgent appointments at the moment are looked for. Of the available appointments, just over a quarter are being filled at the moment. That was different during the summer, we all know it was difficult to get an appointment. It has changed dramatically. About 1% of all passports arise from people going to the office in Dublin or Cork. If there are 11,000 a month from the North of Ireland, out of that we can still say it is about 1%, so about 110 people from the North of Ireland are coming to the office in Dublin, probably, on a monthly basis at the moment. Those are the figures we have. We want to reduce that even more. There is no question about it. I think the constituent I advised would have gone and looked for an emergency appointment only I said he should chance the online application and I thought he would be okay. We can never give guarantees, of course. I suspect that even some of those in Northern Ireland who come down would probably have got it more quickly online. Can I also say, for anybody who is dealing with a death abroad or anything like that, the Department pulls out all the stops. The staff really do.

Photo of Niall Ó DonnghaileNiall Ó Donnghaile (Sinn Fein)
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They do. I acknowledge that.

Photo of Thomas ByrneThomas Byrne (Meath East, Fianna Fail)
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We have all had experience of that, unfortunately for the people involved. We reckon that Passport Online is available to all Irish citizens on this island and 97% of Irish citizens around the world. There are some countries where people cannot apply online. Passport Online has been extremely successful. Some 90% of applicants use it. This has reduced massively the number of people who visit the post office or passport offices to apply in person. The public is doing this and we want more and more of them to apply online as well. That message is getting out there. It takes six minutes on a smartphone to apply for a passport. The online application process is much faster than going through the post. Online is the quickest, cheapest and most convenient way for everyone to apply for their passport, North and South. There is no difference whatsoever. Some Senators mentioned the post office. I would urge all Senators who have mentioned the post office to go back to their constituents and tell them to apply online. Wherever they are on this island, it is going to take a lot less time.

The passport service is now pursuing a digital first strategy, as all the airlines have done. As we come into our busy season early next year we will be promoting Passport Online in media outlets across the island. That very much satisfies the citizenship side of Article 2 of the Constitution, which was referenced correctly by the Senator. As well as providing a more user-friendly and efficient service for the citizen, Passport Online allows for the centralisation of processing which results in greater efficiencies. I accept what Senator Ó Donnghaile said about the human touch and person-to-person contact being very important. However, if we increased that significantly over what it is at the moment we would slow down the whole service. By encouraging people to do it online, we have now significantly quicker processes than Britain or America. There is absolutely no question about that. We have put everyone else in the shade in terms of how quickly our passports go through at the moment. A lot of the travel industry, and I am including this in the travel industry as well being a matter of citizenship, experienced challenges after Covid. Despite unquestionable problems this year, and we all had them, our Department of Foreign Affairs really has risen to the challenge.

The Senator is right that the number of Irish passport-holders resident in Northern Ireland has risen in recent years. We get 11,000 applications a month from the North of Ireland. This is about 10% of all applications. I acknowledge the Senator's petition. However, since the end of June more people have got a passport online from Northern Ireland than have signed the petition. That is not to denigrate the petition or anything but just to show the Senator that tens of thousands of people in Northern Ireland are successfully applying for passports online. A small number of people do need to go to the Passport Office but we think that could be even smaller. Some 60% of renewals, the vast majority, are in three working days or less, even to the North of Ireland. Some 40% of applications from the North are first-time applications. They take longer, that is just the way it is and I think everybody will agree with that. A passport is an important document and we do not hand them out willy-nilly. That would be a breach of any concept of citizenship because it is such a valuable thing. The figure from Northern Ireland applying online is 87%, slightly below what we do in the South but basically the same. That will continue to grow if we all collectively get the message out.

I ask Senators to support us in promoting Passport Online for all applicants through all of their networks in Northern Ireland which Senators have already mentioned. The passport service is continually considering ways to improve its service. We will look at the issue of MLAs and MPs in the North of Ireland, I have no difficulty with that. We will just have to look at how it could be done and that will be a decision for the Minister, Deputy Coveney. He apologies for not being here. We regularly review the services that we offer. The view of the Department, when we look at these facts and figures and consider the number of people who would potentially use that office, and look at the massive majority of people from the North of Ireland who apply online, is that we do not see the business case. People have explicitly mentioned that there is another case, not just a business case and I accept Senators' point of view on that. There are no obstacles to applying for a passport from the North of Ireland that do not also apply here. It is basically the same, one or the other. The distances from Castlebar, where Senator Chambers is from, or from other parts of the country are similar. They make good arguments as well for having offices there but the truth is that all of this applies to them as well.

Our current turnaround times for the Passport Online system are among the best in the world. We never would have thought that could be the case. We kind of knew because we knew what was happening but it did not feel like it last May or June. The way to do that is to promote this digital first policy for all applicants regardless of their address, as it does deliver an exceptional service to citizens no matter where they live or where they are. I thank the Seanad and the Chair for the opportunity to address Senators on this matter. I urge them to use Passport Online and to tell their constituents about it. Whether it is a first-time application or a renewal for an adult or a child, the fastest way is online.

Photo of Paul GavanPaul Gavan (Sinn Fein)
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The Minister of State is very welcome. I got my first passport in 1988. I did not get it in Ireland but in London. I had been forced to emigrate like so many more people at that time. It meant an awful lot to me that I could access an Irish passport as a London-Irish citizen by going to my embassy. It was so long ago I was travelling through a country that no longer exists, Yugoslavia. I find it really strange that we are here 35 years later and people in the Six Counties still have to come down and negotiate Dublin if there is a problem with their passport. I thank the Minister of State for a very detailed response.With the greatest of respect to the Minister of State, I believe he is missing the point because in a republic we believe in accessibility and equality. I support Senator Chambers call for a passport office in the west for the very same reasons. Of course, it would be deeply symbolic and significant for citizens in the North to see an Irish passport office that they can access. That would have a deep symbolism. That is important and I make no apologies for saying that. To regard this debate as an exercise in accounting is genuinely missing the point. We are talking here about one of the most important things that one does as a citizen, which is to access a passport for travel. I agree with every point the Minister of State has made on how good the service is and the Passport Office staff were heroes during an incredibly difficult time over the past couple of years.

Here is the point, however. I spoke to a lady in the North only a couple of months back who had a problem with her application, she could not get through to the office and drove down to Dublin, which was no small task in itself, only to be told that she had to post the documents. The point here is that when one has a problem, that is when one really needs to be able to access someone, that is, a person, to provide help at short notice. Why should a person have to travel to Dublin to do that? The fact that the service has an office in Cork is an acknowledgement in itself that not everything has to revolve through Dublin and be negotiated through the horrendous traffic to get to Dublin city centre. It is not just as justifiable to access an office in the North and, indeed, an office in the west? It makes perfect sense to do just that.

What is particularly significant about this motion, and I see my colleague, Senator Wilson, opposite and I want to give him full credit for this, is that this an issue and an initiative which he began and it commanded cross-party support. Unless I am mistaken, every speaker here this evening has supported the idea of a passport office in the North. The only person who has the demurred from that is the Minister of State.

This Seanad works best when we work on a cross-party basis, when we put together what we share in common and we have done that here on a number of occasions. What is clear here is that on a cross-party basis we support the idea of a passport office in the Six Counties, in the North. Senator Joe O'Reilly put it best of all. My apologies but does Senator Wilson wish to come in here?

Photo of Diarmuid WilsonDiarmuid Wilson (Fianna Fail)
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I am sorry for interrupting the Senator but I have to ask the permission of the Chamber to suspend for 15 minutes as the Minister of State has to vote in the Lower House.

Photo of Mary Seery KearneyMary Seery Kearney (Fine Gael)
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Is that agreed? Agreed.

Cuireadh an Seanad ar fionraí 7.43 p.m. agus cuireadh tús leis arís ar 8 p.m.

Sitting suspended at 7.43 p.m. and resumed at 8 p.m.

Photo of Paul GavanPaul Gavan (Sinn Fein)
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I made most of my main points before the interruption for the vote. Like so many others here I see a clear case for opening a passport office in the Six Counties. I know many people, particularly from the North, are watching this debate. They will be very disappointed to hear a Fianna Fáil Minister of State disagree with people from so many parties in the Chamber. As I was saying, Senator Joe O'Reilly made the most powerful point of the evening so far when he asked what the Minister of State will do about this. Unfortunately the answer coming back from him seems to be "nothing". The logic of the case made by the Minister of State suggests that we should close the Cork passport office. Is this really where Fianna Fáil stands on this issue? I hope and expect to hear better from the next speaker, Senator Wilson.

Photo of Diarmuid WilsonDiarmuid Wilson (Fianna Fail)
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I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Byrne, to the House. I apologise for the interruption earlier. I know it was out of his control as there was a vote in the Lower House. I welcome the Minister of State and his officials. As Senator Ó Donnghaile said in his opening remarks, since last June there has been an all-party motion on the Order Party on this important issue. The fact it has been signed by representatives of all of the parties and Independents shows the significance of this important issue. It is important to point out that the reason the motion was put on the Order Paper, and I initiated it along with Senators Currie and Ó Donnghaile, was to avoid political parochialism. The motion specifically mentions Belfast as the location for an office given the situation we have been in since Brexit and with a population of 1.9 million, and growing, in the Six Counties. The number of applications being sent from the Six Counties to the Passport Office in Dublin for processing increased dramatically over the past two years. More than 72,000 applications were received from the North this year alone.

I appreciate that the vast majority of the applications were made online. The Minister of State agreed in his contribution that first-time applications take a long time to process. This is quite understandable. I understand the majority of the applications from the North were first-time applications. In my opinion, this number will only grow over the years to come. As we are all aware, the 1.9 million citizens in the Six Counties are entitled to apply for an Irish passport, as well as a UK passport if they wish. I respectfully suggest the number of people applying for an Irish passport will increase dramatically in the years ahead. The population of the city of Belfast is almost 640,000 according to the recent census. It would be a sensible idea to open an office in Belfast to facilitate our citizens in making an application. It should be accessible to them in the Six Counties.

I would love a passport office in County Cavan or County Monaghan, preferably in Cavan because it is the capital of south Ulster, but I am willing to concede this to the second city on our island, Belfast. It would be an important thing to do. It does not have to be a huge office. A small office initially would suffice. It is the opinion of the House that this should be considered very seriously by the Government. Of course Galway and other parts of the country are entitled to make their case. As an initial step, the people living in the Six Counties of our island should be facilitated as there will be a huge number of applications from there in the coming years. This is my firm belief and the belief of the majority of people on both sides of the House.

I thank the Minister of State for his contribution. I hope I do not get him into trouble by thanking him personally for the assistance he has given me when helping people who got themselves into difficulties booking tickets and then finding out their passports were out of date. I suggest that at this time of the year, when it is not as busy, the Passport Office should proactively seek applications for passports. We will be back in the same situation next year. I thank the staff of the Passport Office for the great efforts they make to help the citizens of this island on a daily basis.

Photo of Mary Seery KearneyMary Seery Kearney (Fine Gael)
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No doubt the passport staff do need to be congratulated and thanked.

Photo of Barry WardBarry Ward (Fine Gael)
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Déanaim comhghairdeas leis an Aire Stáit agus a fhoireann, chomh maith leis an Aire, an Teachta Coveney, agus gach éinne a oibríonn sa Roinn as an méid oibre atá déanta acu ar an ábhar seo.It is right and proper that we acknowledge that. Other speakers have said just how much work has been done. The Minister of State outlined some of the statistics for the enormous turnaround we have seen on even months ago, or certainly last year, and the number of passports being produced. It is an enormous recognition of the service delivered by the Department of Foreign Affairs. Notwithstanding the increase in the number of staff, I know that the individual staff in the Passport Office have put enormous effort into delivering passports. I think the Minister of State said we are reaching 6,000 passports produced a day, or some figure akin to that, which is an astonishing number and contrasts very sharply with the figures for recent years, the highest number so far being in 2019. I give credit to the Minister of State and the Department for doing that. It is also a recognition of the value of the Irish passport, which has been referred to as well, and how desirable it is to people not just on this island but throughout the world to be a part of the global Irish community and to be citizens of Ireland. That is also welcome. We welcome any new people into that community wherever possible.

I feel at this point that I should ask for a passport office in Dún Laoghaire-----

Photo of Niall Ó DonnghaileNiall Ó Donnghaile (Sinn Fein)
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Of course. Why not?

Photo of Barry WardBarry Ward (Fine Gael)
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-----because we have not had one and because I would not want to be left behind by my colleagues.

Photo of Thomas ByrneThomas Byrne (Meath East, Fianna Fail)
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I think we can consider that.

Photo of Barry WardBarry Ward (Fine Gael)
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Great. I am delighted to hear it. I recognise, however, that there is a practicality deficit in making that request. I recognise wholeheartedly that the impetus behind this motion is so much about symbolism. I also recognise the statement we would be making in opening a passport office in Belfast and I absolutely support the symbolism and the impetus behind that. I also recognise, however, what the Minister of State has said about the practicality of it. I do not know which overtakes the other or which is more important and I do not know that I can make that value judgment now, but I recognise what the Minister of State has said about the practicality of this. I would be so proud if somebody living in Andersonstown could walk down the street to collect his or her Irish passport. That, I think, would give us all great pride. I reiterate, however, what the Minister of State said about how we have advanced in respect of the delivery of passports through an online system rather than an in-person system. I share the stories others have told about people who have applied online and got their passports. I think I renewed my passport two years ago. I got it within two days of the application being made online, so it is an extraordinary service, and in that context there is a practicality consideration.

Nonetheless I welcome the motion. It refers to the backlog, which is no longer there, but refers also to the huge demand on the island of Ireland. I think we all welcome with open arms the fact that so many people want to become part of the global Irish community. I congratulate the Minister of State on that, I congratulate my colleagues on bringing forward the motion and I very much understand the rationale behind it, which is a very welcome approach to some level of integration or sharing on this island.

Photo of Garret AhearnGarret Ahearn (Fine Gael)
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I feel like it is almost obligatory now to say we need a passport office in Tipperary.

Photo of Thomas ByrneThomas Byrne (Meath East, Fianna Fail)
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North and south.

Photo of Garret AhearnGarret Ahearn (Fine Gael)
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We are all one county - at the moment anyway. There are 167,000 people in Tipperary. There is a vacant office two doors down from my office in Clonmel, so it would be very easy to have a passport office right beside where I am located. Queries about passports are among the queries we get that are actually solvable for people.

On a serious note, however, I thank Sinn Féin for tabling the motion. Senator Gavan said everyone agrees with the motion. It is not that I agree or disagree with it, and I do not want to be on the side of disagreeing with it. I do not disagree with it because the symbolic nature of it is what is important rather than whether it is necessarily more important to have an office in Belfast than in Mayo or Tipperary or even Dún Laoghaire. There is that symbolic nature of this, which is clearly important. Due to the increase in the uptake of passports in Northern Ireland since Brexit, that is quite clear.

From a practical point of view, if we had a passport office in Belfast - let us say for argument's sake that it would be quite similar to the one in Cork - one would not be able to get one's passport on the day of application. It comes four days later. Therefore, if there were two people in Belfast today, if there were a passport office in Belfast and if one person decided to get an emergency appointment, that person would receive his or her passport four days later. However, if the other person just booked online, he or she would receive a passport within three days. Therefore, in respect of the speed of the Passport Office, because it is so successful at the moment, because there are 570 people, I think, working in the Passport Office, it has one of the fastest turnaround times for passports in the world. The quickest way for anyone to get a passport is just to apply online. We say that to people all the time, and there is still a very small percentage who apply through paper, which is problematic. It would be quicker just to apply online, even if there were a passport office in Belfast. If one lives in Cork, one is much quicker just applying online rather than going in for an emergency appointment in Cork. Therefore, while I accept the symbolic nature of the motion, the practicality is that the quickest possible way to get a passport is just to apply online.

A number of months ago we had a Private Members' motion tabled here by the Fine Gael Party on passports, and representatives of the Passport Office came in along with the Minister, Deputy Coveney. I think they thought they were coming in for a grilling for two hours on the Passport Office and how many people were looking for passports at the time. However, it was a very constructive engagement across all parts of this Chamber. It is important to acknowledge that from that two-hour debate we had in this House, the turnaround in passports has been incredible and the number of passports that have been delivered is incredible. I think it is something like 720,000 this year already.

Photo of Thomas ByrneThomas Byrne (Meath East, Fianna Fail)
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It is more.

Photo of Garret AhearnGarret Ahearn (Fine Gael)
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It was only 600,000-odd last year, so the turnaround has been incredible. The number of passports that have been delivered this year has been incredible. Senator Wilson said we need to get the awareness out that people should renew their passports at off-peak times, and I agree with him. He mentioned we will be in the same predicament next summer. We will not really because last summer was unique. There were almost three years backlog of people looking for passports last summer, and that will not be the case next summer. It will be just a normal summer such as we had in 2018 or 2019.

The other reason it will be different is that we now have almost double the number of staff working in the Passport Office. Therefore, because of the work the Passport Office has done, I think we will be in a much stronger position next summer than we have ever been before. It is important to recognise, however, that the Passport Office was under immense pressure in the past year or so. There was a point when I was dealing with more than 100 people looking for passports all at the same time. Luckily, we got almost all of them sorted in time, which is an immense credit to the Department, to the Minister, Deputy Coveney, to the Minister of State and to everyone who works in the Passport Office for the work that has been done over recent months. I have dealt with so many people who thought they would not get their passports in time but who got them about 24 hours before their flights went out, and they are so grateful that that was done.

One thing I will say about paper applications, and I wonder if the Minister of State could look at this-----

Photo of Thomas ByrneThomas Byrne (Meath East, Fianna Fail)
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Do not send them.

Photo of Garret AhearnGarret Ahearn (Fine Gael)
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"Do not send them" is definitely the advice to give. However, on first-time applications there is an estimated date, and people come to us worried about whether they will get the passport in time. There could be an estimated date, say, in the middle of October or the middle of November, and someone could be applying a week after the estimated date. We politicians cannot do anything about it until the estimated date has passed. Is there some leeway - well, not leeway, because I understand that there are technicalities to first-time passports, which is really important, and they are some of the safest passports in the world and are recognised as such. However, we cannot make any representations to the Passport Office until that estimated date passes. Sometimes that leaves a gap of only a day or two to try to get a passport done on time. If there were any sort of leeway that could be given on that in the future, that would be helpful. In fairness, however, the work that has been done in recent months has been incredible.

Photo of Mary Seery KearneyMary Seery Kearney (Fine Gael)
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Now I call on a Senator who I am sure will support me in calling for a passport office in Dublin South-Central, our home constituency. I call Senator Warfield.

Photo of Fintan WarfieldFintan Warfield (Sinn Fein)
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I float between Dublin Bay South and Dublin South-Central.

Photo of Mary Seery KearneyMary Seery Kearney (Fine Gael)
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Do you? Come back to us.

Photo of Fintan WarfieldFintan Warfield (Sinn Fein)
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I was going to speak at length, but at this stage of the debate I rise just to support the motion, to commend my colleague, Senator Ó Donnghaile, on his tireless work on this issue and to thank the Passport Office staff who have done incredible work combining the Brexit chaos with the Covid-19 pandemic. I recognise that work. There are two things that stand out for me. First, we have learned under freedom of information requests that for the first time more people from the North have applied for an Irish rather than a British passport. That is extraordinary. The passport of choice for the majority of those in the North is, naturally, not as accessible as the next sought-after alternative, namely, British passports. Second is the new in-person appointment service in the Irish Passport Office on Cromwell Road in London. There is precedence for such an office in the North. It would give expression to the statement from the Tánaiste, Deputy Leo Varadkar, in May this year regarding the possibility of opening additional passport offices outside of Dublin.

I support the motion and commend Senator Ó Donnghaile on prioritising it. I thank all of the parties and speakers for their support for the motion.

Photo of Niall BlaneyNiall Blaney (Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Minister of State for coming to the House to hear this debate. I commend Sinn Féin on putting forward the motion on passport services on the island. It complements the Fianna Fáil motion brought forward by Senators Wilson and McGreehan not long ago. That is the approach taken by the House on this issue during this term.

I could be petty and say we could do with a passport office in the north west where, in conjunction with Derry, up to half a million people live. The reality is there is a larger city on the east coast, Belfast, which is the second largest city on the island. It should get the recognition from the Government it deserves. When we talk about sharing this island, I believe the Government needs to lead from the front. If we really want to share this island, we have to show people in Northern Ireland that they are not being left on their own. It is something on which the Government need to leads.

I accept the figures the Minister of State has given, but this is about more than figures. The Department of Foreign Affairs needs to lead and show an example. It needs to show the people of Northern Ireland they are as welcome as any other in this State. One could say the whole upper half of the island does not have a passport office. I do not think that is good enough. The upper half of the island has suffered over many years because of the Border. We now need to show an example and move beyond that to show the region is now more accessible and given much greater consideration. In that context, I do not believe the Minister of State or Minister need to look any further. It is now time for action, and I join my colleagues in the House and calling for that action. We would like to see a passport office in the upper half of the island.

Photo of Aisling DolanAisling Dolan (Fine Gael)
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I again thank the Senators who have brought forward the motion. I welcome the update from the Minister of State on the achievement with the Passport Office this year. It has been a challenging time, something that is understood by everyone. The Department of Foreign Affairs put measures in place. As the Minister of State has noted, the demand for online passports is incredible. I understand the online service will issue in excess of 1 million passports this year. Our population is growing and is now more than 5.5 million.

Regarding Northern Ireland, it is fantastic to see there have been 11,000 passport applications. The Minister of State said the figures stay roughly the same from month to month. Over 60% of applications are renewals. It is great to see the development and supports that have been put in place. I understand the need for more support, such as the additional office that was created and doubling of the work staff. That was crucial and needed five or six months ago, and it was put in place.

However, there have been challenging periods and we have all learned from that. We have learned how to ensure people are applying online where possible. We also need to acknowledge we have an older population. People aged 65 years or older may not have access to online applications, may be challenged when it comes to applying online and may instead submit paper applications. It is not something people want to hear when they want to get something quickly.

Another challenge I came across with my constituents is first-time applications. The process has been explained. However, there are challenges around Garda stations that are only open for three or four hours a day rather than on a 24-hour basis. There are challenges in rural areas in ensuring Garda stations can acknowledge queries from the Passport Office. Something has to be done and I understand it is being addressed.

I thank the Senators who brought forward the motion. There are a number of points we can highlight. I will, of course, fight for the west. I would love to see a passport office there. However, I want to double the workforce, put in place an additional office and ensure we maintain supports for people who do not have access to online services.

Photo of Mary Seery KearneyMary Seery Kearney (Fine Gael)
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Strictly speaking, the Minister of State is not supposed to come back in but he can make a brief contribution. I know he is anxious to answer Senator Ahearn.

Photo of Thomas ByrneThomas Byrne (Meath East, Fianna Fail)
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I wish to address the specific point on paper applications. People should not submit paper applications; they should apply online. All applications are being processed on time at the moment.

Photo of Aisling DolanAisling Dolan (Fine Gael)
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Some are in their 80s or 90s.

Photo of Thomas ByrneThomas Byrne (Meath East, Fianna Fail)
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We can help them. I have I have done that. All applications are being processed on time and are not expedited for anybody except in an emergency situation. I am subject to the same provisions as any Member of the Oireachtas.

Photo of Mary Seery KearneyMary Seery Kearney (Fine Gael)
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I thank the Minister of State.

Photo of Niall Ó DonnghaileNiall Ó Donnghaile (Sinn Fein)
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The debate has been useful and worthwhile, as well as comprehensive. Within the time available to me, I will not be able to recap everything that has been said. I thank Members and the Minister of State for their contributions. I also thank them for their support because this is an important issue. I do not say this in a combative way, but in campaigning since 2016 for a passport office in the North, to my great regret in many ways I have become the passport office in the North. I am acutely familiar with the problems.

In his opening remarks, the Minister of State said the turnaround time for online applications are now in line with normal pre-Covid processing times. Everything was not normal pre-Covid. There were still issues, and that is why I have campaigned for this since 2016. There are people who campaigned before then because there was a clear need and rationale for an office in the North.

I wish to recap on a couple of points. I again thank Senator Wilson for the initial drive on this motion. It was remiss of me not to acknowledge the steps taken by the Government in terms of the context of Covid and the additional services and investment made. I acknowledge and appreciate that, and I should have said that in my earlier contribution. In response to Senator Chambers and others, I have no issue with an office going into the west.

If my experience on this was based solely on my experience of an online renewal for my passport, I would think everything was fine. I applied online and received my passport book within three days and card within five days. However, that is not the experience for everyone. While online is good and effective for a lot of people, we have not yet got to a place where it is available for all. During Covid and following the lifting of restrictions and subsequently, my office was on the phone several times, including today. There is not a day that I open my Facebook or Twitter without a series of messages about passport delays and issues. It is still an issue, and that is the reality of the situation. That is why I and the House have made the case on this.

Senator Currie raised an important point, which I raised during a debate on a motion in September last year and subsequently in a Commencement matter debate. MPs and MLAs from the North should have access to a dedicated helpline, hub or whatever it may be.The Minister, Deputy Coveney, on the day said that I was putting that to him while he was on his feet but that he would go away and look at it. I would hope that it has been looked at and hopefully we can hear something back soon that there would be a service for elected representatives from the North to be able to engage with the Passport Office in a more speedy fashion.

Senator Martin raised a couple of issues around Article 4. I will probably save my replying points in order to have a conversation with him over a cup of coffee because he raised some important issues and matters I might like to talk to him about.

For me, and that is why I made the point at the beginning of this contribution, I have been campaigning for this since 2016. The Government has been aware of problems around delays and a backlog which has only been exacerbated post-Brexit, and further exacerbated in the context of the restrictions being lifted. I do not oppose it and I have no issue with it, but a new office was opened in Balbriggan. There was a case for a new office and that is where the Department put it, which was in Balbriggan. That was a decision and it is fair enough but that office could have gone elsewhere.

Photo of Paul GavanPaul Gavan (Sinn Fein)
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Well said.

Photo of Niall Ó DonnghaileNiall Ó Donnghaile (Sinn Fein)
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The other point is that the Minister of State referred to the business case for an office in the North not stacking up. I do not hear very often Ministers coming in here and citing business cases when motions, Commencement matters or other requests are being made seeking particular investment. I would be keen, therefore, to know if the business case has been carried out and, if it has, could we please be furnished with that business case? I would very much like to see it given that it has been cited today.

In that regard and specifically on the Belfast location, I made the point that I have no issue with where it goes in the North, whether it be Belfast, west of the Bann or wherever, because there is a logical and rational argument for that. Belfast City Council has a vacant to vibrant capital grant scheme, where it is encouraging investment into vacant properties and there will be all sorts of support for the Department if it has any worries about the cost. I believe it would be cost neutral, based on the parliamentary questions that party colleagues of mine have submitted.

The Irish Government already has grade A office space in Belfast. The Minister of State has already probably been in it in the course of his own work as I know that many of us have, and many people from all traditions and backgrounds go there for discussions, meetings and whatever it might be in that grade A office space. There is nothing stopping the passport service and the Department from putting half a dozen desks in that space that would act as a passport service when people need to rush and to access people for help. I ask the Minister of State to look at the existing infrastructure and see if we can exploit it.

I thank Members for their support, I thank the Minister of State for his attendance and attention, and I hope that ultimately we can get this resolved and get the office, no matter where it might be in the Six Counties, open and delivering for the people who need it. Gabhaim buíochas.

Question put and agreed to.

Photo of Mark DalyMark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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When is it proposed to sit again.

Photo of Garret AhearnGarret Ahearn (Fine Gael)
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Tomorrow at 10.30 a.m.

Cuireadh an Seanad ar athló ar 8.33 p.m. go dtí 10.30 a.m., Déardaoin, an 6 Deireadh Fómhair 2022.

The Seanad adjourned at 8.33 p.m. until 10.30 a.m. on Thursday, 6 October 2022.