Seanad debates
Tuesday, 18 June 2019
Gnó an tSeanaid - Business of Seanad
2:30 pm
Martin Conway (Fine Gael)
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I propose that the House suspend until 6.15 p.m.
Michael McDowell (Independent)
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There has been a mistake. The Order of Business was that the Committee Stage of the Judicial Appointments Commission Bill was to continue after this for two hours.
Martin Conway (Fine Gael)
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Until 5.50 p.m. The Minister has to go to the Dáil for a Topical Issue matter.
Lorraine Clifford Lee (Fianna Fail)
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It was to continue for two hours.
Michael McDowell (Independent)
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It was to continue after this. That is the Order of Business.
Martin Conway (Fine Gael)
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Will we continue, then?
Frank Feighan (Fine Gael)
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We can continue.
Michael McDowell (Independent)
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Originally, we were to continue after this for seven hours. It was proposed that that be changed to three and a half hours, and then to two hours.
Frank Feighan (Fine Gael)
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Okay. We will continue.
Michael McDowell (Independent)
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Does the Minister have his officials?
Charles Flanagan (Laois, Fine Gael)
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I do not wish any disrespect to the House, but I have been given notice that a Topical Issue matter has been raised in the Lower House on the Majella Moynihan case. It may well be misinterpreted were I not in a position to attend.
Michael McDowell (Independent)
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It was proposed.
Charles Flanagan (Laois, Fine Gael)
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I beg the indulgence of the House.
Michael McDowell (Independent)
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I have a commitment at 7.30 p.m.
Frank Feighan (Fine Gael)
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The suspension would be until 6.15 p.m.
Lorraine Clifford Lee (Fianna Fail)
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So, it would be two hours.
Frank Feighan (Fine Gael)
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Yes, from 6.15 p.m.
Michael McDowell (Independent)
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That is not what was agreed on the Order of Business.
Frank Feighan (Fine Gael)
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I am trying to facilitate the Minister.
Michael McDowell (Independent)
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I know, but that would bring us to 8.30 p.m. and I have to be out of here by 7.30 p.m.
Frank Feighan (Fine Gael)
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Could we facilitate the Minister in the Dáil for this important matter?
Michael McDowell (Independent)
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I would facilitate him anyway, but we did not agree that this would go from 6.30 p.m. until 8.30 p.m. There will be votes, and many Members will be inconvenienced.
Martin Conway (Fine Gael)
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I understand the Leader indicated on the Order of Business that there is a Topical Issue debate in Dáil Éireann that the Minister has a responsibility to attend and address. The two hours were agreed then. I am trying to contact the Leader now but my understanding is that those two hours commence at 6.15 p.m.
Lorraine Clifford Lee (Fianna Fail)
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That is not my understanding. If the Minister has to attend the Dáil Chamber for an important matter then we should facilitate that. We could, however, start the debate, then suspend-----
Frank Feighan (Fine Gael)
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We cannot start the debate-----
Lorraine Clifford Lee (Fianna Fail)
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We could start the debate now and then suspend to allow the Minister to attend the Dáil. He can then come back to this House. It is only right and proper that we finish at 7.30 p.m.
Frank Feighan (Fine Gael)
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I understand that was not agreed on the Order of Business.
Michael McDowell (Independent)
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It is clear what was agreed on the Order of Business. The debate on the Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017 should follow this business and conclude after two hours.
Lorraine Clifford Lee (Fianna Fail)
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There was no starting time.
Michael McDowell (Independent)
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There is no starting time.
Martin Conway (Fine Gael)
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It is within the Acting Chair's discretion to make a ruling.
Frank Feighan (Fine Gael)
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I understand. The House agreed to adjourn at 5. 50 p.m., if the Criminal Justice (Mutual Recognition of Probation Judgments and Decisions) Bill 2018 had not previously concluded. It was also agreed that the Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017 was to be taken not earlier than 6.15 p.m.
Michael McDowell (Independent)
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I am sorry. I did not know that.
Frank Feighan (Fine Gael)
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The acting Leader can now propose a suspension.
Martin Conway (Fine Gael)
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I propose the House suspends until 6.15 p.m.
Michael McDowell (Independent)
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It is not agreed but there we are.
Martin Conway (Fine Gael)
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We cannot vote on this matter because it has already been agreed on the Order of Business.
Michael McDowell (Independent)
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It was not agreed.
Lorraine Clifford Lee (Fianna Fail)
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That is not my understanding of what was agreed to on the Order of Business.
Martin Conway (Fine Gael)
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It is within the power of the Acting Chair to make a ruling.
Frank Feighan (Fine Gael)
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The proposal the House agreed to was to take the Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017 at 6.15 p.m. If the House decides not to suspend-----
Lorraine Clifford Lee (Fianna Fail)
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No, that is not what-----
Jerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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On a point of order-----
Frank Feighan (Fine Gael)
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-----Members will simply sit here-----
Jerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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-----I clearly indicated when I was reading out the Order of Business earlier that the Minister for Justice and Equality would be required in the Lower House to deal with a Topical Issue matter of a sensitive nature. I asked this House to allow for the Minister attending that debate.
Frank Feighan (Fine Gael)
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The Minister wishes to go now.
Jerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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If this was in the diaries of Members, then it is a poor sign of the House.
Michael McDowell (Independent)
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When the clock stops ticking.
Frank Feighan (Fine Gael)
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The Minister is entirely free to go and he is due to be back here at 6.15 p.m.
Martin Conway (Fine Gael)
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The House does not have to suspend. We are still sitting.
Frank Feighan (Fine Gael)
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It will make no difference to the start time of 6.15 p.m. if the House decides to suspend or not.
Michael McDowell (Independent)
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I am sorry but I did not hear that.
Frank Feighan (Fine Gael)
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Whether the House decides to suspend or not, the Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017 will not start until 6.15 p.m. The debate will go on for two hours.
Michael McDowell (Independent)
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The debate goes on for two hours-----
Jerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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That is fine. That is what was agreed.
Michael McDowell (Independent)
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-----and starts at 6.15 p.m.
Jerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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Yes, that is correct.
Frank Feighan (Fine Gael)
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Is it proposed to suspend the House?
Jerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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I propose we suspend until the Minister concludes his Topical Issue matter debate in the Lower House. If he is not finished at 6.15 p.m., we will resume when he has concluded.
Frank Feighan (Fine Gael)
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Is it proposed to suspend the House until 6.15 p.m.?
Jerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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I propose we suspend until 6.15 p.m. We can then re-evaluate in light of the progress of the Topical Issue debate in the Lower House.
Frank Feighan (Fine Gael)
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Is that agreed? Agreed.