Seanad debates
Wednesday, 19 September 2018
Commencement Matters
School Transport
2:30 pm
Denis O'Donovan (Fianna Fail)
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We have two more Commencement matters. Senators Rose Conway-Walsh and O'Donnell are sharing time. The Minister of State, Deputy John Halligan, has been waiting patiently in the wings. If this goes over eight minutes, I will just pull down the shutters. It is as simple as that. This cannot go on. I am not sure which Senator is going first, but I will give them both two and a half minutes.
Rose Conway Walsh (Sinn Fein)
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I thank the Minister of State, Deputy John Halligan, for coming to the House. He may remember he was here before at my request in relation to school transport.At the time, the Minister of State promised that no child would be left without a seat on a school bus. I am afraid that is not the picture we see today. In the limited time I have, I want to ask the Minister of State why we cannot have bigger buses. It makes no sense whatsoever that a provider is in a situation in which it can provide a bigger bus but the Department is saying it cannot happen.
I also want to ask about repeat leaving certificate students. Students do not know until the middle of August whether they have to repeat or not. Their applications are then treated as late applications. Can the Department recategorise it so they are not treated as late applications?
The Department has split parishes and families with school transport. I ask for it to be reviewed. Exactly how much has been saved by the school transport cuts over the years? School transport is becoming less and less viable. The original intention was to get rid of school transport. We are now making it impossible for families and students to get on the school bus. We have to remember that school transport is an integral part of the education system. Taking away school transport directly affects the most vulnerable students and families.
Kieran O'Donnell (Fine Gael)
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I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Halligan, to the House and thank him for taking this important debate. I have already spoken to the Minister of State on the matter. In Limerick, we have an issue in the Caherconlish, Ballyneety, Donaghmore and Fedamore area, which is outside Limerick city. Students of the local school, John the Baptist community school in Hospital, are unable to get school transport. We have a unique set of circumstances. We have a common application system in Limerick city for schools. Through a quirk of fate the distance from Caherconlish, Ballyneety, Donaghmore and Fedamore to the GPO in Limerick city is marginally shorter than the distance to the local school, John the Baptist community school in Hospital. If students applied to schools in Limerick city under the common application system, in most cases they would not satisfy the eligibility criteria. Therefore, I am asking the Minister of State to encourage and facilitate the school transport system in Limerick city and county to look at this matter.
At present there are 20 students who can use the bus on a concessionary basis but they are without a bus. Ten of those are concessions that were on the bus previously. Two of the ten have been there for the past five years and are going into sixth year. Another two have been there for the past two years and the other six were there last year. It is their local school. Parents are under enormous pressure. It is their local school. The other ten students are first years.
We have a unique set of circumstances in the Caherconlish, Fedamore, Ballyneety and Donaghmore area where children do not qualify for concessions to get the school bus to their local school of John the Baptist community school in Hospital because they are deemed to be closer to the GPO in Limerick. In most cases they would not be eligible for school places elsewhere. I ask the Minister of State to facilitate the solution being considered to get these 20 children to their school places. It is a matter that will have to be looked at in more depth in future years.
John Halligan (Waterford, Independent)
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I thank Senators Conway-Walsh and Kieran O'Donnell. I will provide an outline of the extent of the school transport service which very many people may not be aware of. It is a significant operation managed by Bus Éireann on behalf of the Department. In 2017 and 2018, over 117,000 children, including 12,000 with special educational needs, were transported in over 4,500 vehicles on a daily basis to primary and post-primary schools throughout the country, covering over 100 million kilometres, with a total cost in 2017 of €190 million.Parental contributions towards the cost of school transport amounted to €15.4 million, so the State covers a significant cost of school transport and it increases every year. Children are generally eligible for school transport if they satisfy the distance criteria and are attending their nearest school. Children who are eligible for school transport and who have completed the application process on time have been accommodated on school transport services for the current year, where such services are in operation. Children who are eligible for school transport but for whom no transport service is available may, following an application for transport within the prescribed time limits, receive a remote area grant towards the cost of private transport. That grant is calculated on miles, just like for civil servants. Children who are not eligible for school transport may apply for transport where spare seats are available, after eligible children have been accommodated. This is referred to as concessionary transport. Where the number of ineligible children exceeds the number of spare seats available, Bus Éireann will allocate tickets for the spare seats using an agreed selection process. Under the terms of the scheme the number of spare seats varies from year to year, based on the capacity of the buses running on all of the various routes and the number of eligible children accommodated on each route. Hence, there is no guarantee that a non-eligible child who received a place the previous year will do so the following year, nor is there a guarantee that a sibling of the non-eligible child in receipt of a ticket will also do so. It is included in the terms and conditions on the Bus Éireann online application form that available seats may vary from year to year and that the transport of children who are not eligible cannot be guaranteed for the duration of the child's education.
Routes cannot be altered under the scheme and nor will additional vehicles will be introduced. Neither larger vehicles nor extra trips using existing vehicles will be provided to cater for children who are not eligible, as additional State costs would be incurred by covering the cost of providing school transport for children who are eligible for it.
It is important to remember, and I say this to everybody, that the school transport scheme was put in place for eligible children and for children with special needs. All eligible children in Ireland get school transport. Now and then there may be a click in the system and something might happen with Bus Éireann or something might fall through the cracks, but we are dealing with 117,000 children. All special needs children get school transport. It is one of the best schemes in Europe. An independent assessment showed that for a maximum of €300 per year in primary school and a maximum of €600 in secondary school, the cost per family of taking the car to drive children to school would amount to €1,200. This came from two independent reviews. We have not increased the cost of transport. Our difficulty lies in the fact that we started some years ago with 700 concessionary places for children and we are now up to 24,700, whom we find it extremely difficult to get on to the school buses when we factor in all of the eligible children and the children with disabilities who are entitled to school transport. That is how complicated and difficult the scheme is.
When one looks at it, 99% of people are happy with school transport and 99% of families will say that this is a great scheme. It is not without its faults, however, with so many children involved and the complexity of running such a scheme every day of the week, twice per day, to and from schools and with 4,000 vehicles across the country.
Kieran O'Donnell (Fine Gael)
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Can we speak here?
Denis O'Donovan (Fianna Fail)
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It will have to be very brief because we are miles over time.
Rose Conway Walsh (Sinn Fein)
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I will be very brief. The school transport system was put in place for children. Putting them into categories of concessionary and non-concessionary is not acceptable. We are not living in North Korea. We need some flexibility around the school transport system. It is not good enough to say the system will not provide another seat or a bigger bus. This is disgraceful and it is a shame on this Government for what it has done and how it has followed on from Fianna Fáil in ruining school transport. It is not acceptable.
Kieran O'Donnell (Fine Gael)
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I have a very specific question about St. John the Baptist school and hospital in County Limerick and about the Caherconlish, Ballyneety, Donaghmore and Fedamore areas.In my view, these concessionaries should be eligible because as we have a common applications system in the city, many of them will not be eligible for those schools anyway. Their local school is St. John the Baptist. An educational system should facilitate children being transported to their local school. I ask the Minister of State, Deputy Halligan, to engage with the local Bus Éireann public transport service in Limerick on the provision of school transport for these 20 children. While we will need to review the system going forward, I ask that the Minister of State give urgent consideration to the needs of the 20 children in Limerick who currently do not have school transport to their local school.
John Halligan (Waterford, Independent)
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I will engage with Bus Éireann in Limerick on the matter. I have regular engagement with Bus Éireann. On Senator Conway-Walsh's remarks regarding school transport, the Senator obviously does not know the system.
Rose Conway Walsh (Sinn Fein)
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I know it inside out and upside down.
John Halligan (Waterford, Independent)
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I do not think that is true because if it was, the Senator would know that the school transport scheme was put into operation for children who are eligible.
John Halligan (Waterford, Independent)
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To be helpful, I will give the Senator an example.
Denis O'Donovan (Fianna Fail)
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I ask the Minister of State to be brief.
John Halligan (Waterford, Independent)
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In the case of a bus which serves an area in respect of which there are only 15 eligible children but 20 seats on the bus, rather than leave seats empty we allow concessionaries on the bus. The system provides for 24,700 concessionary children. However, if in the example given an eligible child comes forward the following year, he or she has a right under the scheme to a place on that bus, resulting, regrettably, in a concessionary having to be taken off the bus. I am obliged to adhere to the provisions of what was set out prior to my coming into office.
I offered representatives from all parties an opportunity to meet school transport providers, including Bus Éireann. I was the first Minister to provide members from all areas with dedicated numbers for Bus Éireann and other transport providers. One has to view the scheme in the round, in particular the number of children it caters for twice a day every day. With the exception of a few children who have fallen through the system, all children in Ireland eligible for school transport get it.
Rose Conway Walsh (Sinn Fein)
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The Minister of State is saying that children of working parents do not count and that is not fair.
John Halligan (Waterford, Independent)
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I did not say that. The Senator is being dramatic.
Rose Conway Walsh (Sinn Fein)
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That is the logic of what the Minister of State is saying.
Denis O'Donovan (Fianna Fail)
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The Senator and the Minister of State, Deputy Halligan, can resume this discussion another day.
John Halligan (Waterford, Independent)
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The Senator does not know the scheme.