Seanad debates

Tuesday, 22 November 2016

2:30 pm

Photo of Jerry ButtimerJerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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The Order of Business is No. 1, motion re Joint Sub-Committee on Public Petitions, to be taken on the conclusion of the Order of Business without debate; No. 3, Statute Law Revision Bill 2016 - Committee and Remaining Stages, to be taken on the conclusion of No. 1 and to conclude not later than 5.15 p.m., if not previously concluded; and No. 2, statements on the horticulture industry, to be taken on the conclusion of No. 3 and to conclude not later than 6.45 p.m., with the contributions of group spokespersons not to exceed eight minutes, those of all other Senators not to exceed five minutes and the Minister to be given five minutes to reply to the debate.

Photo of Catherine ArdaghCatherine Ardagh (Fianna Fail)
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I raise the issue of the misuse of prescription medication in Ireland and its detrimental impact on road traffic accidents and lives generally. Of 109 coroners' reports that were examined in 2013, the coroner found that 31% of those who died in car crashes had consumed alcohol while 30% had taken prescription medication, with 12% of the 30% specifically relating to the consumption of the prescription drug, benzodiazepine. Benzodiazepine is a class of psychoactive drugs used to treat a range of conditions including anxiety and insomnia and contains sedative, hypnotic and muscle relaxant properties. The drugs contains chemicals which add to the calming effect already produced by the human body, which keeps the brain in a more tranquillised state.Some of the side-effects listed of benzodiazepines are drowsiness, confusion, dizziness, trembling, impaired co-ordination, vision problems and grogginess. These tablets have also been used increasingly as a form of date-rape drug for sexual assault due to their ability to make persons drowsy and unaware of their surroundings. Law enforcement is currently unaware if the drugs are being obtained with a prescription or illegally off the street or on the Internet, although many believe that too many benzodiazepines are being prescribed by doctors.

Because of the lack of legislation currently in place, the drug can easily be brought into Ireland and sold on the street without a prescription from a doctor. There have been recent calls on the Department of Health to implement laws regarding prescription drugs throughout Ireland and I call on the Government to expedite the enactment of such laws without delay. I urge the Leader to call a debate in this House on the prevalence of the abuse of prescription drugs and to publicly highlight the harmful effect their misuse has on individuals.

Photo of Gerard CraughwellGerard Craughwell (Independent)
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I have just come from an informal meeting of the Joint Committee on European Union Affairs with senior staff from the Departments of the Taoiseach and Foreign Affairs and Trade. I want to put on record my congratulations for the amount of work these officials are doing. It is going on quietly in the background. Very little can be said at this point in time in the public arena. I was quite taken by the commitment of the officials who were there. These are non-political officials who are working on Ireland's behalf all of the time and they deserve our congratulations and encouragement to keep at what they are at.

I refer to an item that appeared on Newstalk yesterday. I asked for a debate some time ago here with the Minister for Defence. A retired senior Army officer appeared on Newstalk yesterday morning and what he portrayed as the state of the Defence Forces was frightening, to say the least. We heard of ships being unable to sail because there were not engineering officers available. We heard that Ireland depends on 11 bomb disposal experts to man every corner of this country 24 hours a day, seven days a week. We learned, for example, that the retention rates of our commissioned officers are appalling, and the only career advancement young highly-trained officers are being offered is a job in Aldi or Lidl. That is appalling. We spend tens of thousands of euro training these officers up to the rank of captain or commandant and they have nowhere to go. There is a lack of opportunity for those in the lower ranks. Soldiers are now joining with leaving certificates - some are joining with degrees - into the ordinary ranks and I can discern no progression possibility for them to move into the commissioned ranks. We need to look at that as well. We are building up a massive problem for the future for young men and women who have joined the Defence Forces as cadets. We have an intake of 100 cadets this year. I understand that will happen again next year, and the year after. In five or six years' time, at least 50 of those cadets will have nowhere to go, at which stage the jobs in Aldi will probably be full, and they will have no career. We will spend tens of thousands of euro training them and they will have no career.

I realise the Leader has a lengthy agenda with respect to legislation coming through but we need a full debate on the Defence Forces and their future. There is not a senior Minister. The Taoiseach has taken that to himself. I cannot see him coming in here to answer questions, but really, he should. The Defence Forces is the backbone of our country. These are the guys who, as was said in one of those famous films, are standing on that wall at night while the rest of us are asleep. They are the people who are looking after our country. They are the people who are putting their lives on the line in Lebanon and other parts of the troubled world, day in, day out. They deserve better than what we are giving them as a nation. I would ask for an urgent and honest debate as to where we are going with the Defence Forces.

Photo of Rose Conway WalshRose Conway Walsh (Sinn Fein)
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At the outset today, I extend my condolences to the family of William Trevor and to acknowledge the wonderful work he did in highlighting serious issues in our country.I say it particularly given that I am from the place. I was an extra in "The Ballroom of Romance", which was made in Ballycroy, County Mayo, although Glenfarne in County Leitrim would like to claim responsibility for it. William Trevor was responsible for my first pay cheque. We all received £18 per day. To a small, rural parish such as Ballycroy, it meant a lot. William Trevor examined serious issues such as the issues of rural Ireland. He must be commended on the wonderful contribution he made to literature and Ireland as a whole.

I return to the Leader's favourite topic, namely, economics. I raise the issue highlighted by my colleague, the Minister for Finance and Personnel in the Northern Executive, Máirtín Ó Muilleoir, in a recent article for thejournal.ie. I am pleased that a debate surrounding Irish unity has moved to a real discussion on the ongoing cost of partition. It is no longer as simple as asking whether we can afford unity. The debate is on whether we can afford continuing partition. Some of the myths, such as that it costs Britain £24 billion to maintain the Six Counties, are being challenged. This oft-quoted figure ignores spend on national security, British capital depreciation and the taxes levied on revenue raised in the North but booked in London. A recently published and peer-reviewed study modelling Irish reunification, by Professor Kurt Huebner of Vancouver University, examined the potential benefits of reunification. It is estimated that the island could benefit by up to €35 billion in the first years after Irish unity.

Photo of David NorrisDavid Norris (Independent)
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If you believe that, you will believe anything.

Photo of Rose Conway WalshRose Conway Walsh (Sinn Fein)
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It is worth a read, and I suggest the Leader take it home and have some bedside reading. We must also address the flip side of the argument. Continuing with the status quowould deny the island such an economic boost. It is not just an issue for Sinn Féin. It will impact on us all. I ask for a debate to invite the Minister for Finance, Deputy Michael Noonan, to discuss the economic realities of Irish unity. For far too long, there has been a research gap on the issue. The Irish Civil Service has never properly prepared for what so many accept as inevitable, namely, unity on the island. The Government of the State has never produced a Green Paper on Irish unity, despite promises to do so. There is much talk about the Government's lack of preparation for the outcome of the Brexit vote, and it would be as foolish for the Government not to start planning for the next major constitutional change, namely, Irish unity.

Photo of Colette KelleherColette Kelleher (Independent)
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Dementia is one of the great global challenges of our time. In Ireland, 55,000 people have dementia. Most of us will know somebody with dementia or somebody who is caring for a person with dementia. It will have touched our families. By 2026, at the end of the much-anticipated future health care strategy, the number of people with dementia in Ireland will be 80,000.

Are you finished? Thank you.

Photo of Paul CoghlanPaul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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Senator Colette Kelleher has the floor.

Photo of Colette KelleherColette Kelleher (Independent)
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There was a lot of muttering going on.

Photo of David NorrisDavid Norris (Independent)
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I did not mutter.

Photo of Colette KelleherColette Kelleher (Independent)
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I was not saying the Senator was muttering.

Photo of David NorrisDavid Norris (Independent)
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I did not hear it either.

Photo of Colette KelleherColette Kelleher (Independent)
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As we all know, the services and supports for people with dementia are patchy and fall short of what people need. That is why we need political courage, imagination and resources to respond to the dementia challenge. That is why, with Deputy Mary Butler, I have convened an all-party Oireachtas group on dementia so Ireland, like similar sized countries such as Scotland and Denmark, can be a great place to live well with dementia. We all need to know about dementia and work on the dementia challenge. That is why the all-party Oireachtas group on dementia, as part of a national awareness campaign, has convened dementia awareness training tomorrow. I ask the Leader and all Members to attend the dementia awareness training in the AV room at 11 a.m. tomorrow for 45 minutes.Although common in other parliaments this is the first of its kind in our Parliament. It would be wonderful to see as many Members as possible at it. It is an act of solidarity with people with dementia so they know they are not alone, that people are listening to them and are aware of their challenges. It would be a great boost. Helen Rochford Brennan will speak at it. She appeared on the "Late Late Show" last Friday night. She is a very persuasive woman and she spoke about her dementia. I invite Members to come and to bring a colleague. It is 45 minutes out of their busy day, but an important 45 minutes. It will be great to see everybody. We will take names and we will come back for those who do not make it tomorrow, because there will be other opportunities.

Photo of Paul CoghlanPaul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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We do not necessarily allow Senators to advertise on the Order of Business, but not to worry.

Photo of Paul CoghlanPaul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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I allowed the Senator latitude.

Photo of Ivana BacikIvana Bacik (Independent)
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I join other Members in expressing condolences on the death of William Trevor, a beautiful writer of wonderful short stories that were really evocative of rural Ireland. His death is a very sad occasion.

Will the Leader arrange for a debate on the separation of powers and the independence of the Judiciary in light of what appears to be an ongoing feud between the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport, Deputy Ross, and senior judges? I do not consider it appropriate for a Minister to tweet, as the Minister, Deputy Ross, appears to be doing, in response to comments by the Chief Justice.

Photo of Diarmuid WilsonDiarmuid Wilson (Fianna Fail)
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Hear, hear.

Photo of Ivana BacikIvana Bacik (Independent)
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One might be tempted to compare him to President-elect Trump.

Photo of David NorrisDavid Norris (Independent)
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He has been trumped.

Photo of Ivana BacikIvana Bacik (Independent)
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I thank the Senator. Both appear to be tweeting to deflect criticism on their lack of achievement in office or in Trump's case, concerns about what he will achieve when in office. It is inappropriate and unseemly. It adds to a concern one might have after comments by another Deputy in the Dáil concerning a judge who sat in judgment in her case.

Photo of David NorrisDavid Norris (Independent)
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She was quite right.

Photo of Ivana BacikIvana Bacik (Independent)
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We must be careful about that. There is the important principle of the independence of the Judiciary. That said, all of us share a concern about the need for reform of the judicial appointments system. However, reform of the system is very different from abolition or stalemate of any judicial appointments pending the slow progress a Bill makes in either House. There is a concern that there will be no appointments to the Judiciary with the result of worsening delays in the judicial system for litigants before the courts. We must examine the current judicial appointments process. The Judicial Appointments Advisory Board, JAAB, could be doing a much more focused job, in terms of sending forward a smaller number of names for recommendation to the Government, which would thereby improve the process. Certainly, it is not appropriate, as the Chief Justice has suggested, that judges would replace politicians in appointing members of the Judiciary.

Finally, I call for a debate on Aleppo and Syria and the worsening situation there with the appalling attacks on hospitals and the deaths of children. The Russian ambassador appeared before the committee on foreign affairs last Thursday but we must maintain the pressure, so I seek a debate in the House with the Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade to discuss what further pressure Ireland can put on Russia in respect of its engagement in the horrific bombing campaign against civilians.

Photo of Joe O'ReillyJoe O'Reilly (Fine Gael)
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I agree with colleagues' remarks about William Trevor. We mourn his passing. Among other works, his short story, "The Ballroom of Romance", will be a jewel for sociologists and historians for generations to come. It evokes and depicts a very glum and dark period in Irish history. It is one we tend to romanticise retrospectively but it does not merit such romanticising.

I wish to raise a question that becomes more important at this time of year. Soon the issue of trolleys, overcrowding in accident and emergency departments and waiting lists in hospitals will come into focus. I am conscious that the Leader was a distinguished and effective former chairman of the health committee. In that regard, I wish to have a full debate in the House on the use of the carer's allowance as a mechanism or instrument for keeping people out of hospital. Far more could be done. First, there should be more celebration of our carers in a public way. Second, we should conduct more advertising about the carer's allowance.I suggest that more fringe benefits should be given to carers. While I believe the €5 increase in carer's allowance that is pending is worthwhile, I emphasise that such increases must be continued. There should be incremental increases all the time to make it an attractive option. It would be my contention that it is a much cheaper option than hospitalising and institutionalising individuals. People are happiest at home. If the Leader could bring the relevant Minister to the House for a debate, that might give rise to a proper study of how effectively we are using the carer's allowance scheme and the home-help and home-care packages to ensure people stay out of hospital and to enable them to be with their loved ones, which is what they want. I genuinely believe not enough is being done in the context of carer's allowance to keep people out of hospital and to create employment for people who are in jobs they might not necessarily be overly happy with and who would be happier if they could move home to work as carers of loved ones. I appeal to the Leader to take this relevant issue seriously and to act on it before Christmas, if possible.

Photo of Robbie GallagherRobbie Gallagher (Fianna Fail)
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I welcome last week's announcement by the Minister for Education and Skills that schools will be paid the minor works grant. I raised this matter shortly after the budget. Schools deserve to know at the start of the year what their grants will be. It is very difficult for boards of management and school principals to plan the year ahead when they do not know what funding they will get. That is very unfair. As Members will be aware, the minor works grant is a vital piece of machinery for schools. They depend on it for ongoing maintenance and the upkeep of ICT equipment. Difficulties can arise when boards of management and principals do not know what funding they will get. Many schools fell into disrepair during the many years for which minor works grant scheme was suspended. I am delighted that the scheme has been reinstated, but it leaves a lot of work to be done. We depend on the volunteers who give up their time without reward to sit on boards of management for the benefit of the community. The least they deserve is a proper schools programme that is funded at the start of the year so that schools can plan according to the works that need to be done.

Photo of David NorrisDavid Norris (Independent)
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I had not realised that so many of my colleagues would refer to the death of William Trevor. I am very glad they did. I think it shows what a literate and cultivated House this is. I had the pleasure of meeting William Trevor approximately 25 years ago when I made a BBC television programme with Frank Delaney. He was a most modest, unassuming and charming man. He had a very sharply defined way of dealing with character in his short stories. I found some of the stories quite shocking. One of them was unbearable to read. It was about somebody who went away from a flat - I think it was in Brighton - and left the butler in charge. The butler gradually took over the flat. When he invited his friends in, they created devastation until the owner of the flat unexpectedly came back. I could hardly bear to read the last sentence. He also illustrated the lives of the Protestant community in rural areas and small provincial towns. He was 88. It is not a huge tragedy, but it is a moment to remember his quite extraordinary contribution to Irish literature.

I would like to pick up on what Senator Bacik said about President-elect Trump, if indeed he was elected. I say that because the American system is quite extraordinary. Given that Hillary Clinton got 2 million more votes than him, one would imagine that she would be President. She got the second highest number of votes ever received by a candidate in an American presidential election.

Photo of Paul CoghlanPaul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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I think the difference might be 200,000 rather than 2 million, but not to worry.

Photo of Jerry ButtimerJerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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The Leas-Chathaoirleach is wrong.

Photo of David NorrisDavid Norris (Independent)
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They said 2 million today.

Photo of Paul CoghlanPaul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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The Leader has informed me that I am wrong.

Photo of David NorrisDavid Norris (Independent)
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It is 2 million. I originally heard 200,000, so the Leas-Chathaoirleach is quite right to mention that figure.

Photo of Paul CoghlanPaul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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We will settle it afterwards.

Photo of David NorrisDavid Norris (Independent)
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Right. It is bad enough having Trump, but the appointments he has made are deeply worrying. These are appalling people. Trump does not know the first thing about politics, as far as I can see.He said, for example, that for every new regulation introduced, two will have to be scrapped.

Photo of Gerard CraughwellGerard Craughwell (Independent)
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That is a great idea.

Photo of David NorrisDavid Norris (Independent)
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It does not say what they are. Some may need to be scrapped. It does not say anything about their relevance. It is just a kind of arithmetical thing. Then there is his idiotic tweet telling the British that they have to appoint Nigel Farage as ambassador to Washington. The sooner this creature comes down off the moon, the better.

Photo of Ray ButlerRay Butler (Fine Gael)
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I would like the Minister for Justice and Equality to look into legislation regarding prankster stunts that draw on the resources of the Irish Coast Guard, local gardaí and the emergency services and waste valuable time, finances and essential resources that could be required at the time to save lives in a real emergency.

Yesterday evening in Trim, an individual was spotted entering the River Boyne, raising grave concerns for his wellbeing. The Irish Coast Guard and full emergency services, together with local people, searched the Boyne for this individual only to discover hours later that it was a total prank. Those who engage in such behaviour with such disregard for their fellow man should be dealt with by the full rigours of the law and I urge the Minister to take serious steps to bring forward legislation in this regard.

Photo of Trevor Ó ClochartaighTrevor Ó Clochartaigh (Sinn Fein)
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I dtosach báire, ba mhaith liom comhbhrón a dhéanamh le clann agus cairde Clíodhna Ní Dhroighneáin, bean óg a bhásaigh de bharr timpiste tragóideach in aice le Maigh Cuilinn ag an deireadh seachtaine. Impím ar dhaoine óga atá amuigh ansin ag tiomáint é a thógáil go réidh sa tréimhse seo go dtí an Nollaig.

It is lovely that we hear talk of Christmas markets popping up across the country and in other places, but it is also ironic in places like Galway where we have a wonderful Christmas market to find that there are many homeless people being seen for the first time sleeping in and around the shadows of that market in places such as the Fairgreen, on the promenade in Salthill, which many people would know and where they would have enjoyed a summer’s stroll. The issue was raised by COPE, the charity which deals particularly with women who suffer domestic violence and are homeless, and the lack of space it has available to it. Homelessness is not confined to Dublin. It exists across the country and we are seeing more of it in Galway where we have not seen it before. We need an urgent debate between now and Christmas. There is a housing debate going on around the legislation but a debate on the plan to deal with homelessness and the emergency situations that will crop up between now and Christmas would be very welcome.

I thank Members who attended the Staff our Libraries community group presentation earlier in the audio visual room. We will forward the information to all the others. This is a growing issue. There are very genuine concerns about the phased roll-out of staffless libraries. It is no longer a pilot programme. It seems to have been rolled out much more quickly than people had expected. We are finding that local representatives in local authorities knew very little about the roll-out of this by the management of the local authorities and chief librarians, etc. Similar moves in the library system in the United Kingdom have led to 800 libraries being closed with 9,000 jobs lost. There are 15,000 volunteers manning libraries in Britain just to keep them open.

We need a full debate on the question of staffless libraries because I do not think the full information is coming to light. My understanding is that in two of the pilot libraries in Laois-Offaly the library cards of 110 people had to be revoked because of activity that was not expected when the library was supposedly staffless. It is a big issue and is pertinent. Can we have a debate on this as soon as possible?

Photo of Catherine NooneCatherine Noone (Fine Gael)
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We live in strange times in many ways. I heard comments this morning about the strange irony that many tourists to Dublin are staying in apartments through Airbnb while many of the homeless are staying in hotels.We are all very well aware of the shortage of rental accommodation in the capital. A recent study by daft.ierevealed that the price of rental property in Dublin has gone up by 40% while the availability has gone down by 80%. While I commend the provision in the budget to increase the tax-free allowance for homeowners to rent out a room to €14,000 and the Action Plan for Housing of the Minister, Deputy Coveney, which will provide 47,000 units of social housing, I believe that more can be done.

In Canada, a tax on empty homes has been introduced. Vancouver City Council recently approved such a tax. I believe we should monitor that and perhaps consider its introduction in Ireland and in Dublin in particular, where the gravest problems exist. City councils themselves should not be exempt from such penalties. We hear a lot of talk about empty units being owned by the council and work not being done maybe as efficiently as it should be, which adds to the crisis. The tax being introduced in Vancouver is the first of its kind in Canada and has been introduced to combat its own housing crisis. It is expected to improve the situation by persuading owners of thousands of empty apartments and houses to put them up for rent or be penalised. Self-reporting owners will be taxed 1% of the value of homes that are not principal residences or are not rented out for at least six months of the year. As I said, the initiative is something we should consider in Ireland. I would be grateful if the Leader could pass on my comments to the Minister.

Photo of Kevin HumphreysKevin Humphreys (Labour)
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I am very disappointed that no representatives of this House have been appointed to the Committee on the Future of Healthcare. I know that many Senators in the House have direct experience that would have added greatly to the development of that strategy.

I ask the Leader whether any contact has been made about appointments to the committee deliberating on the findings of the commission on water charges. There has been some discussion about appointing four Senators to the committee. I find it very contradictory in many ways. If we had gotten representatives onto the Committee on the Future of Healthcare, they could have been really productive. Meanwhile, we are now being asked for four Senators to be appointed to what I would call a pre-determined outcome.

The majority of Deputies that will make up that committee have already indicated what the outcome will be. The Leader's colleague in government, Deputy Micheál Martin, has already stated that there will be no water charges. Sinn Féin has been pretty consistent in what it has been saying about water charges, in fairness. Therefore, why are we going through this charade of a pre-determined committee that will sit until next March when we already know the outcome, since Micheál Martin said in Friday's Irish Independentthat there will be no charges? Deputy Barry Cowen has a different opinion and has softened the edges of that stance. Deputy John Lahart referred to it as well on "The Week in Politics". However, the leader of Fianna Fáil was pretty clear in his interview on Friday that there will be no charges. Are we participating in a simple charade to get us through to March? We now know that the majority of people participating in that committee are saying that the outcome will bring an end to water charges. Why are we playing along with that?

Photo of Colm BurkeColm Burke (Fine Gael)
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I agree with my colleague, Senator Humphreys, on Senators not being included in the Committee on the Future of Healthcare. It is disappointing that 60 Members of the Oireachtas have been excluded from the process.

It is important that we look to the long term of where we are going as a country. The latest employment figures released are extremely significant in that we now have an unemployment rate of 7.5%, down from 15.1%. The number of people working in this country is now at 2.04 million. In the 12 months up to September this year, more than 57,000 new jobs were created.That is over 1,100 new jobs per week.

That refers back to the demand for housing, an issue raised by my colleague, Senator Noone, and how we respond in the appropriate way to accommodate those people who are now working and paying a contribution through PRSI to the cost of running this State. We must carefully consider how we do long-term planning in urban centres. For instance, Dublin is spread out and it is taking people up to two hours to get to work. We need to take the longer-term view and consider what happens in other cities where people have gone up rather than out in terms of housing build. If we build upwards we can provide more space for recreation, social activities and sports. We need to have that debate.

This country has a huge issue with building higher than two storeys. With proper planning, there is nothing wrong with building higher than two storeys because people could walk to work in five or ten minutes instead of spending two hours travelling to work. A developer in Cork who is building new office accommodation was advised that he needed to provide residential accommodation close by and was proposing 200 apartments. That has been turned down by the councillors, which is very disappointing. That is a wrong decision and it is not the way to do business in this country. We need to have a debate on that issue in the House.

Photo of Victor BoyhanVictor Boyhan (Independent)
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I raise an issue which we might tease out the next time the Minister for Social Protection, Deputy Varadkar, is in the House. I am not requesting that he come into the House specifically to deal with it. It concerns an article that is attributed to the Leas-Chathaoirleach in today's edition of The Irish Times.

Photo of Paul CoghlanPaul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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Letters are not relevant on the Order of Business. The Chair cannot be brought into a discussion on the Order of Business but the Senator may take up the matter with me later in my office.

Photo of Victor BoyhanVictor Boyhan (Independent)
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No. There will be no analysis. I have the floor and I want to speak. The Leas-Chathaoirleach does not even know what I am saying. He is shutting me down before I have even opened my mouth. This is democracy.

Photo of Paul CoghlanPaul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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You are referring-----

Photo of Victor BoyhanVictor Boyhan (Independent)
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This is the Seanad Chamber. Allow me to make a case.

Photo of Paul CoghlanPaul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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Sorry, Senator. You were referring to the occupant of the Chair. That is not allowed on the Order of Business. I may have mistakenly given latitude in the past to someone else, as the leader of his group, but as they say, we are where we are.

Photo of Victor BoyhanVictor Boyhan (Independent)
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In light of that, I will take my seat-----

Photo of Paul CoghlanPaul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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You do not have to do that.

Photo of Victor BoyhanVictor Boyhan (Independent)
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-----and I will e-mail the Leas-Chathaoirleach's article regarding PRSI to the 900 councillors within ten minutes of leaving this Chamber. The Leas-Chathaoirleach should not nod his head because he might need a reminder. He seems to be forgetting-----

Photo of Paul CoghlanPaul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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With respect, I do not think the Senator should raise this matter on the Order of Business.

Photo of Victor BoyhanVictor Boyhan (Independent)
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The Leas-Chathaoirleach did not know what the matter related to until I shared it with him. I will take my seat. I will communicate with the 900 councillors-----

Photo of Paul CoghlanPaul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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We will discuss it later.

Photo of Victor BoyhanVictor Boyhan (Independent)
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I call for a debate about PRSI.

Photo of Paul CoghlanPaul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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Of course, and the Senator is entitled to call for a debate.

Photo of Victor BoyhanVictor Boyhan (Independent)
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-----but I will webcast the councillors within five minutes of leaving this Chamber with the clip of his engagement with-----

Photo of Paul CoghlanPaul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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With respect, it is not relevant to the Order of Business.

Photo of Victor BoyhanVictor Boyhan (Independent)
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It was okay for the Leas-Chathaoirleach to e-mail them.

Photo of Paul CoghlanPaul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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What we do outside this House has nothing to do with the Order of Business.

Photo of Victor BoyhanVictor Boyhan (Independent)
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I will take my seat. I am not a fool, and the Leas-Chathaoirleach is not fooling me.

Photo of Paul CoghlanPaul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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I am not trying to fool you, Senator.

Photo of Niall Ó DonnghaileNiall Ó Donnghaile (Sinn Fein)
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I want to swop places with my colleague, Senator Warfield, who was here before me but did not manage to catch the Leas-Chathaoirleach's eye.

Photo of Paul CoghlanPaul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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I apologise. I call Senator Warfield.

Photo of Fintan WarfieldFintan Warfield (Sinn Fein)
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I raise the objectionable tweet from the Taoiseach, Deputy Enda Kenny, in recent days in which he, in our name, gushed about Mike Pence, who apparently knows and understands the issues that affect our people. Why did the Taoiseach extend an invitation to Mike Pence to visit this island? The tweet went far beyond what was necessary in terms of diplomacy. He tweeted: "He certainly knows Ireland and the issues that matter to our people." That is an untruth. We were the first State in the world to properly endorse marriage equality, a powerful statement that reaffirmed the rights of LGBT citizens and redefined what it meant to be Irish. Those values of fairness and inclusion could not be more at odds with the extreme anti-LGBT prejudice that has been a hallmark of Mike Pence's career.He is an advocate for the repugnant and abusive practice of conversion therapy. He is on the record as calling for federal funding for this shameful practice. As recently as 2014, while serving as Governor of Indiana, he passed sweeping discriminatory legislation that would allow anybody to discriminate against LGBT people, citing religious belief. Mr. Pence's anti-LGBT views are so extreme that he passed a law in Indiana that would lead to the jailing of any same-sex couple who even attempted to apply for a marriage licence in that state. This is the dangerous and ugly reality of Mike Pence, and while we accept the result of the US presidential election and the incoming Administration, we must also be unequivocal in affirming our values of LGBT equality and inclusion. I ask the Leader to raise this issue with the Taoiseach and ask him to reaffirm his commitment to LGBT equality by progressing the rights of young transgender people and publicly supporting all-island marriage equality.

Photo of Niall Ó DonnghaileNiall Ó Donnghaile (Sinn Fein)
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In her earlier contribution, my colleague, Senator Rose Conway-Walsh raised some of the macro issues that still scar our country as a result of partition. In many ways, the negatives permeate every aspect of our lives, including the major issues around health, transport and infrastructure, but also sitting down on a Saturday afternoon and trying to enjoy a sports game. I have never encountered an issue that has led to people in the North being energised via social media than the continued practice of satellite subscribers in the North being blocked from watching RTE programmes. The most recent was the Ireland versus New Zealand rugby match last weekend. Before that, it was coverage of the Olympic Games and the coverage of Irish athletes who were taking part there. It also happened during the European Football Championships when Ireland did so well on the international stage. It goes right across the board. I appreciate that we may not be able to do anything about it now in light of the contractual and licensing arrangements that obtain.

The matter to which I refer highlights a bigger problem in the context of mindset. When RTE approaches negotiations relating to these issues and to television coverage, it is thinking in partitionist terms and is not thinking about those of us in the North who want to be able to view our sporting heroes on the international stage. I will call for the Minister to contribute by way of a Commencement matter. I will hope the Leader can raise this matter with his ministerial colleague. We so often have the opportunity to commend and congratulate our sporting heroes on representing us so well. We have very positively engaged across the island, North and South, to put together a very positive bid to attract the Rugby World Cup to Ireland. However, I fear that we could be faced with a mad situation whereby some of the games will take place in the North but we will not be able to watch them on RTE in the North. That would be a great shame and a very backward step. I hope all Senators will engage in respect of this matter across the various sectors of the media as we move forward.

Photo of Diarmuid WilsonDiarmuid Wilson (Fianna Fail)
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I endorse the comments of my colleague, Senator Craughwell, on the Defence Forces. On many occasions in recent years, Senators have highlighted the fact that morale in the Garda Síochána is at an all-time low. We recently saw how low morale has become with more than 10,000 ordinary members of the Garda taking the decision individually to strike for better pay and conditions. We face a similar crisis in our Defence Forces. I am very interested in this matter. As part of our rolling debates on Brexit, I have asked that the Minister for Defence come to the House. As Senator Craughwell pointed out, the Taoiseach is the Minister for Defence. The situation is so serious that it warrants the Taoiseach's presence here to debate the future of our Defence Forces. The latter are in crisis.How long will we wait until that crisis turns into a serious reality? I ask that this debate take place as soon as possible and that An Taoiseach, not the Minister of State, come before this House.

I also wish to comment very briefly on Senator Warfield's comments about An Taoiseach's tweeting. While I disassociate myself totally with the comments and actions of Vice President-elect Pence, I very much welcome the fact that An Taoiseach is in contact with both him and President-elect Trump. It is in the interest of this country to maintain good relations with the people of the United States of America, a country in which more than 50 million people claim Irish ancestry. The United States has been very important for us in the context not only of the peace process, but also of many other matters through the decades. I would like to see that good relationship continue but I disassociate myself totally with the comments Senator Warfield has attributed to the incoming US Vice President, Mr. Pence, and would not condone any of them.

Photo of Rónán MullenRónán Mullen (Independent)
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I cannot remember whether it is scheduled to bring the Minister for Education and Skills before the House during the coming weeks. A serious problem is arising in schools with the vetting of occasional visitors to schools who come to carry out sports coaching or act as guest speakers and so on. I am the chairperson of a primary school board of management and I am in touch with managers and other chairs and staff of other schools who tell me there are confusions and blockages in the system arising from the new vetting legislation that came into force this year. School management officials tell me that the vetting issue has been the bane of their lives in recent months.

The new legislation which came into force this year and a Department of Education and Skills circular explaining it make clear that any people coming into a school for the first time since 29 April of this year to assist voluntarily or occasionally with coaching, mentoring, counselling, teaching or training of children or vulnerable persons must have been vetted. The problem is that various voluntary sporting and other bodies do not see it that way. One school I know of had to cancel a visit from a volunteer from the Engineers Ireland STEPS programme, a very good programme which encourages primary and post-primary students to explore the world of science, technology, engineering and maths, because that organisation's policy is not to vet those who only volunteer occasionally and it describes or defines "occasionally". A school can defend a decision not to carry out vetting where it has an agreement with an organisation sending volunteers or employees into a school, and where the school can show that the other party, that is, the sending organisation, has obtained a vetting disclosure in respect of the person coming in. However, if these organisations do not have a policy that complies with the law, no such defence is available when an unvetted person goes into the school. The school with which I was in touch now has a policy that ensures that anyone coming in who will have access to or contact with children for educational purposes will have to be vetted. However, this will cause untold confusion across the country because organisations will arrange to send in speakers and coaches, only for it to emerge at the last moment that they have not got a vetting disclosure for the person whom they are sending in, and the event will have to be called off through no fault of the school.

If one looks at the websites of the likes of the GAA and the IRFU, one sees that the new legislation is clearly not understood. For example, the GAA states: "While the preference of the GAA is to vet all persons who work in a role of responsibility with children [and so on] occasionally a guest coach may be invited to work in a supervised role with children." However, supervision is not the issue any more. If one is coming into a school for the first time since April of this year, one must be vetted. It does not matter whether one is a once-off or a regular. The IRFU states that "all persons within rugby with access to children on a regular and continuous basis" are required to be vetted. That is not the law either. The Minister should come before the House and talk to us about this. The Department of Education and Skills, having issued the necessary clarification in its circular to schools, now needs to issue clarification to bodies such as Volunteer Ireland and various other voluntary bodies that do good work and send volunteers into schools but do not seem to be up to speed with the new requirements of vetting legislation.

Photo of Jerry ButtimerJerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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I thank the more than 18 Members who have raised many important issues on the Order of Business. I begin by joining Senator Ardagh, who called for a debate and legislation to deal with the use and misuse of prescription drugs. She will find no argument on that from this side of the House. The figures she recited were in yesterday's report and we have heard about the traumatic impact the issue has had on the lives of people, including victims and the families left behind. It is a matter of extreme importance and not just at this time of the year, as the nights get longer and people take more chances on the road. It is an issue we need to come back to. There is a need for active legislation on this issue and I would be happy to have the Minister come to the House on it. The Senator makes the point and perhaps we should speak about having a cross-party group around this significant issue. Such use of prescription drugs is increasing and the monitoring of it is decreasing. I am concerned that more people are being killed by drug misuse, alcohol misuse and the misuse of prescription drugs. The Senator is right to raise the matter and I would be happy to speak to her again about it. It is important that we combat the horrific rise in the rate of deaths on our roads, whether they arise from alcohol, speed or the misuse of prescription drugs. We must be vigilant and work together to eliminate the problem.

Photo of Gerard CraughwellGerard Craughwell (Independent)
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Rather than describing the process as "cross-party", he might say "cross-group". This is new politics.

Photo of Jerry ButtimerJerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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The Senator knows what I mean.

Photo of Paul CoghlanPaul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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There should be no interruption.

Photo of Jerry ButtimerJerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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I would not like to incur the wrath of the Leas-Chathaoirleach but he knows what I mean. I join with Members in paying tribute and sympathising with the family on the death of Mr. William Trevor. Senator Conway-Walsh referenced "The Ballroom of Romance" and his short stories. Given that he was born in Cork in 1928, one could say he got his brilliance there.

Photo of Paul CoghlanPaul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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He was from provincial-town Ireland.

Photo of Jerry ButtimerJerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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A comment from a 2011 interview struck me when he said writers should not feel obliged to explain and things should be left to the reader. He did that in his work. I pay tribute to him and sympathise with his family on his death.

Senators Craughwell and Wilson raised the matter of the Defence Forces, which is very important. The Minister of State has committed to coming to the House and he is in Lebanon today, as Senators know. To be fair, the Minister of State, Deputy Kehoe, has responsibility for this and he sits at the Cabinet. He is willing to come to the House to discuss the matters raised. As Members know, the Government has begun recruitment to the Defence Forces and over 600 positions have been advertised this year. The budget has been increased by €10 million for 2017 and we have seen capital infrastructural expenditure in a number of barracks across the country, along with Haulbowline in my constituency. I am sure we welcome that.

Photo of Gerard CraughwellGerard Craughwell (Independent)
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The Leader-----

Photo of Jerry ButtimerJerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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We have also seen increased spending on the Air Corps and we very much commend the work being done by our men and women in the Naval Service in the Mediterranean. Equally, there is the issue of increased expenditure in the naval fleet, which is to be welcomed. The Minister of State, Deputy Kehoe, is committed to ensuring the Defence Forces remain an attractive career choice and to do that, he has engaged with representative associations governed by the Lansdowne Road agreement. That said, a climate survey has been commissioned and published. In that survey, members indicated positive findings in terms of commitment to and pride in the job and work satisfaction. I acknowledge, however, that we need to see an improvement in the terms and conditions of all members of the Defence Forces. I would be happy to have the Minister of State to come to the House to debate the matter.

Photo of Gerard CraughwellGerard Craughwell (Independent)
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In fairness, Leader, we have-----

Photo of Paul CoghlanPaul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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With respect Senators, we cannot have questions and answers.

Photo of Jerry ButtimerJerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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I will refer the matter back to the Senator after the Order of Business and get him the information.I am sure he will be pleasantly surprised. However, I agree with him that we must work together to ensure members of the Defence Forces are rewarded for the work they do.

Photo of Gerard CraughwellGerard Craughwell (Independent)
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We must stop them travelling from Donegal to Dublin every day to carry out duties.

Photo of Paul CoghlanPaul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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Order, please. The Senator has made his contribution.

Photo of Jerry ButtimerJerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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Senator Conway-Walsh raised the cost of partition and of not being a united country. I congratulate her on raising the matter. I am sure she will join me, along with Senator Noone and Senator Colm Burke, in welcoming the unemployment figures. The national survey from the Central Statistics Office, CSO, shows that employment is continuing to increase in this country. I am sure Sinn Féin Members will welcome the fact that there are more people at work. More than 2 million people are in work in Ireland, with 56,500 more people at work in the past year, which is a 2.8% increase. It is ahead of the target in the Action Plan for Jobs for 2016. A total of 72% of the jobs being created at present are located outside Dublin. For 16 quarters in a row there has been an increase in the number of people at work. All Members will agree that this is a good news story for the country.

Photo of Trevor Ó ClochartaighTrevor Ó Clochartaigh (Sinn Fein)
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How many are on zero-hour contracts?

Photo of Jerry ButtimerJerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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The Senator always sees the glass half full. Some day the Senator will come to the House and remember that the glass is full. For 16 quarters in a row more people have been at work. If the Senator had his way-----

Photo of Trevor Ó ClochartaighTrevor Ó Clochartaigh (Sinn Fein)
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I just want to know how many are on zero-hour contracts.

Photo of Jerry ButtimerJerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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There was an unemployment rate of 15.1% when Fine Gael and the Labour Party formed a Government in 2011. We had the courage to go into government and to work for the people. You would have them unemployed. Then you would be outside the gate with a placard stating that nothing is happening.

Photo of Trevor Ó ClochartaighTrevor Ó Clochartaigh (Sinn Fein)
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What about the 500,000 who left Ireland?

Photo of Jerry ButtimerJerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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Do not come in here and talk out of both sides of your mouth. Why not admit the fact that there are more people at work?

Photo of Trevor Ó ClochartaighTrevor Ó Clochartaigh (Sinn Fein)
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I just want to know how many are on zero-hour contracts. It is a very simple question.

Photo of Paul CoghlanPaul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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I suggest that the Leader not address Members directly. Address your comments through the Chair.

Photo of Jerry ButtimerJerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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Unemployment has decreased by 12.6% during the terms of this Government and the last Government. More people are at work and fewer are unemployed. It is the 16th consecutive quarter of jobs growth. Surely the Senators opposite could welcome and celebrate that, rather than bemoan the fact.

Photo of Trevor Ó ClochartaighTrevor Ó Clochartaigh (Sinn Fein)
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We are just wondering how many are on zero-hour contracts.

Photo of Jerry ButtimerJerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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I do not begrudge you getting an increase in pay from your party. I hope you welcome that as well.

Photo of Paul CoghlanPaul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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The Leader should not address Members directly in that manner.

Photo of Niall Ó DonnghaileNiall Ó Donnghaile (Sinn Fein)
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Can we have the debate on reunification?

Photo of Jerry ButtimerJerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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I have no bother with having that debate.

Photo of Niall Ó DonnghaileNiall Ó Donnghaile (Sinn Fein)
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Go raibh maith agat. That is what we sought.

Photo of Jerry ButtimerJerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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The bottom line is that the Sinn Féin representatives, if they are honest, should not hand the money back to their party. They should give it to the State so we can invest in employment opportunities for all sectors of society. If they are honourable about that, they should do it.

Photo of Niall Ó DonnghaileNiall Ó Donnghaile (Sinn Fein)
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We will if you will.

Photo of Jerry ButtimerJerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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Do not talk out of both sides of your mouth.

Photo of Niall Ó DonnghaileNiall Ó Donnghaile (Sinn Fein)
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You do it first.

Photo of Paul CoghlanPaul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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Members must talk through the Chair.

Photo of Jerry ButtimerJerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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Senator Kelleher raised the important issue of dementia and the 55,000 people in our country who suffer from the condition. I commend her on the work she is doing and on the work she did prior to becoming a Member of the House. Tomorrow is an important day and I urge Members to attend the briefing. The Government, with Atlantic Philanthropies, has committed €275 million to the national dementia strategy. It is important that there is cross-party and Independent support on the issue of dementia because, as Senator Kelleher said, it is a challenge that must be overcome.

Senator Bacik spoke about the separation of powers. It is important that we do not allow anything to undermine the independence of the Judiciary and that we preserve the separation of powers between the Government, the Legislature and the Judiciary. However, it is important to recognise that the programme for Government is committed to significant reform in the appointment of judges. The Tánaiste and Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Fitzgerald, is working on a Bill to make the appointments process more transparent and fair. I understand that the Bill is due before the House in the near future. It is important that we do not undermine the Judiciary and that we maintain the separation of powers, which is a constitutional requirement in any case.

Senator O'Reilly raised the issue of emergency departments, waiting lists and the carer's allowance. I will be happy to invite the Minister to the House to discuss these matters. Senator Gallagher raised the important issue of the school minor works scheme. The Minister announced those details last week and I think there is more to come in the context of the summer works scheme. I would be happy if the Minister were to come to the House to discuss this important matter.

Senator Norris spoke about President-elect Trump. Similarly, Senator Warfield mentioned the Taoiseach's tweet and the possibility that Vice President-elect Pence will visit Ireland. As a member of the LGBT community and as a politician, I want to say we have a duty to work with every administration that is elected in every jurisdiction across the world. We may not agree with their policies and we may not support them, but we have a duty to work with them.

I would also like to say that as a member of the LGBT community, I have been filled with a sense of darkness, sorrow and pain since the election of Mr. Trump and Mr. Pence. Nothing that Vice President-elect Pence has said or done in his role as Governor of Indiana has been inspirational from the perspective of equality, justice and the upholding of the rights of people in the LGBT community. I hope the members of Congress in America will use the system of checks and balances to prevent the regression of the rights of LGBT people across the United States of America. I really am very upset by this.

I am being polite when I say that what Mr. Pence has said and done in his role as Governor of Indiana has been anything but positive. Members of all parliaments who are interested in human rights must uphold the human rights of all citizens, particularly people who are gay, lesbian and transgender. I will very much stand on that platform when I join the Taoiseach in welcoming Mr. Pence to Ireland so that I can invite him to talk to Senator Warfield, to me, to the Ministers, Deputies Zappone and Varadkar, and to Senator Norris.

Photo of Fintan WarfieldFintan Warfield (Sinn Fein)
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I will be across the road with a banner.

Photo of Jerry ButtimerJerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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I will invite him to talk not only to those of us who are gay, but also to our allies, supporters and family members so that he can see the values we uphold and stand for and the progress our country has made. I suggest we are lucky and privileged to be citizens of a country that voted in such numbers in favour of marriage equality, a vote that is now shown to be significant across the world. I remind the House of the progress we have made under the Taoiseach of our country, Deputy Enda Kenny, as leader of a Government and with the assistance of members of the Labour Party, in areas like marriage equality, Finance Bills, gender recognition and adoption. The leadership he has shown in a partnership Government cannot be underwritten by the fact that he is welcoming Mr. Pence to this country.

Photo of Fintan WarfieldFintan Warfield (Sinn Fein)
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The Taoiseach said that Mike Pence understands-----

Photo of Jerry ButtimerJerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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It is important to recognise that the Taoiseach, as Head of State, must work with people.

Photo of Ivana BacikIvana Bacik (Independent)
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He is not the Head of State; he is the Head of Government.

Photo of Jerry ButtimerJerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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I hope we can always call out people when they are wrong. The Victory Fund is an organisation that funds and supports LGBT candidates in the US. It is a source of joy that 86 candidates were elected to state or national parliaments in America last week. The new Governor of Oregon, Kate Brown, is the first LGBT governor to be elected. I had the privilege of meeting a young elected candidate, Julian Cyr, in Massachusetts during the summer. The Attorney General of Massachusetts, Maura Healey, is working with all men and women of the LGBT community. Senator Warfield is right when he makes the important point that generations of young people are watching what is going to happen in America. Gay, lesbian and transgender people are questioning their identities and themselves today. As a country, and as legislators across the world, we must stand as a beacon for them and work with them to ensure they are treated properly and with dignity, fairness and compassion.

Senator Butler spoke about an incident in Trim. The Minister of State, Deputy McEntee, will be in the House tomorrow to discuss these issues. I will be happy to have them discussed once more.

Senators Ó Clochartaigh and Noone raised the issues of homelessness and housing. The Minister will be in the House again tomorrow to discuss the Bill. I hope the matters highlighted by the Senators can be mentioned during that debate. If they have issues that need to be addressed separately, I will be happy to facilitate that.

Senator Humphreys spoke about the future health care strategy. It is a source of huge disappointment to me as Leader of the Seanad and to the Members of this House that Senators have not been appointed as equal members of the committee. It is disappointing that the Fianna Fáil and Sinn Féin members of the committee did not support us when we tried to make a change because the committee lacks the expertise of Senators from all sides of the House. People on the Fianna Fáil, Sinn Féin, Fine Gael, Labour Party and Independent benches have medical and health expertise that would add to that committee.There are people who have medical and health expertise who will add to that committee. It is disappointing. The Senator referred to the water commission. I have not been consulted regarding its composition. I heard of the appointment of Senator Ó Céidigh on "Morning Ireland" on Monday. I am not sure who has been in contact regarding the appointments or the structure of the committee. I am led to believe there will be four Members of the Seanad on it. I am not sure who they will be but my understanding, from talking to our Whip’s office, is that they will be from Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil and two Independent groups, the Civil Engagement group and Senator Ó Céidigh as Cathaoirleach. My information is that the Labour Party was not anxious to be on the committee. I am open to correction on that.

Photo of Kevin HumphreysKevin Humphreys (Labour)
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I thought nobody was in communication with the Leader.

Photo of Jerry ButtimerJerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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I said that I asked our Whip’s office about it following "Morning Ireland".

Photo of Paul CoghlanPaul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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Sorry, Leader that is not-----

Photo of Jerry ButtimerJerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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I just want to put it on record again-----

Photo of Paul CoghlanPaul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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That is not relevant.

Photo of Jerry ButtimerJerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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It is actually because-----

Photo of Paul CoghlanPaul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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We cannot have a question-and-answer session here.

Photo of Jerry ButtimerJerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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I appreciate that.

Photo of Paul CoghlanPaul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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The Leader can give his answers now, through the Chair.

Photo of Jerry ButtimerJerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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Nobody has been in direct contact with me about the appointment of Members of this House to that commission. I made an inquiry regarding its composition.

Senator Colm Burke raised the very important issue of housing and the demand for it giving the example of Cork. We can debate that tomorrow with the Minister for Housing, Planning, Community and Local Government, Deputy Coveney. Senator Boyhan raised the issue of pay-related social insurance, PRSI. It is important to have that debate whether about the pension deficit that many have or the contribution people make to their pensions in general. The Minister for Social Protection will be here to debate the Social Welfare Bill 2016 and I am sure we can debate that issue then.

I neglected to mention the issue about the libraries, which Senator Ó Clochartaigh raised. We need to have a discussion on that. Senator Warfield has been very active around this issue. The matter has been discussed here before.

Senator Ó Donnghaile raised the very important issue of the transmission of sporting events or other activities on television. I hope that we could have an all-Ireland approach to the transmission of sporting events because it is not good enough that in one part of the island people can watch Ireland play the All Blacks and in another they cannot, or in one part people must pay extra to watch something which they can see free in another part. We are a small island nation, we are united in lots of ways by our sport and our support for our sporting heroes. We should all, no matter who we are, work to overcome that obstacle. I would be happy for the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport to come to the House. I also raised the matter Senator Wilson discussed.

Senator Mullen raised the important issue of vetting and I would be happy to have the Minister come to the House to discuss that.

Order of Business agreed to.