Seanad debates

Wednesday, 25 November 2009

5:00 pm

Photo of Paddy BurkePaddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Brady. Senator Buttimer has five minutes remaining.

Photo of Jerry ButtimerJerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Brady, and thank her for coming to the House. It is disappointing the Minister, Deputy Gormley, is not in the Chamber.

This debate is about looking after people following the destruction of their homes and livelihoods. In the city of Cork there is no running water and flooding is continuing. Extraordinary efforts have been made by front-line services and volunteers, whom I commend again. As Bishop Colton said this morning, people are reconnecting with their values of neighbourliness and friendliness.

I pay tribute also to the local media, be it radio, television or newspapers, for the work they did in communicating with people, and the council staff.

We must invest in the quay walls in Cork. Every year for the past eight years Councillor Jim Corr, at estimates time and before it when we were doing the roads budget, advocated the enhancement, reinforcement and provision of funding for the quay walls yet we have had no money from central Government for the quay walls in Cork. That is a project that cannot be done by the local authority on its own. It carried out works near City Hall at a huge cost but assistance is needed from the State. It is extraordinary that all the money from the Celtic tiger era has evaporated and as Senator Boyle is well aware, as a former member of Cork City Council, the key job of restoring and enhancing the quay walls in Cork has not been done. Local authorities do not have the funding. They need capital funding from central Government to do that.

In my remarks prior to the adjournment of the debate I spoke about the role of the ESB. I do not want to castigate anybody but it must answer questions about the rate of the release of water. I am told 530 cubic metres per second were released down the Lee Valley and in the catchment reserve coming into it 800 cubic metres per second were released. Those figures illustrate there was a real crisis in water management and with the level of water in Cork on Thursday night.

I agree with Deputy Phil Hogan that an investigation is needed, devoid of politics, into how we can learn from this experience and avoid a repetition in the future. The areas that were flooded in Cork city, for example, have not been flooded in 50 years.

I was in homes and businesses on Friday morning and afternoon which were ruined. One poor woman refused to go back into her home of more than 50 years. This issue is important. It is not about compensation but ensuring we learn from this experience. I am sure we will get the lecture about climate change. I agree with the Minister, Deputy Gormley. The planning decisions taken were daft, futile and ill-thought out and in some cases we are paying the price for that now. I have no difficulty saying that because the Minister is right. I have a history of standing up to developers on different planning issues but I want to know why this happened and how it happened in Cork. How effective was the management plan in answering the need when it was greatest? I would like that question answered in this independent review or investigation. How did the plan work in the affected areas?

On the issue of compensation outlined eloquently by Senator Cannon this morning, it is €10 million plus €2 million. The Minister of State, Deputy Mansergh, spoke about it being an initial assessment but we must look after people. The early warning system must be put in place. We need a national flood alert system and we must give support to local authorities. I commend the local authority in Cork and the volunteers on the great work they are doing in providing safe drinking water to people in the communities. We must support local authorities. The water table is at a certain level but remedial work to clear the drains has not been done. I saw Michael Cullen clearing the drains in the middle parish last Friday. I see Denis Coffey in the Mahon community centre spearheading volunteerism. Those two people are working flat-out on behalf of the community and the Government must come in behind them. I do not blame the Government for the flooding but we must recognise that people are in distress. The concern must be to have a co-ordinated plan to assist the people in putting right what has happened as a consequence of the flooding. If we are to develop a serious response to this crisis it requires local authorities, central Government, the OPW and whoever else should be in that mix sitting down with the ESB in Cork and representatives of Ardnacrusha in the west and discussing how we can move forward from this crisis.

Allowing for the fact that climate change is upon us, and anybody who is honest recognises that our weather patterns have changed, we must have an integrated response. I welcome the fact the Government has embraced some of the Fine Gael proposals made over the weekend. I commend the volunteerism and the spirit of the people in Cork but we must have an independent review of what happened so we can learn from this experience and prevent it happening again.

Photo of Paddy BurkePaddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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As this is the Labour Party's Private Members' time I call on Senator Prendergast.

Photo of Phil PrendergastPhil Prendergast (Labour)
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I join with you, a Leas-Chathaoirleach, in welcoming the Minister to discuss this problem, which is country-wide. I sympathise with the thousands of people throughout the country who have been or will be affected by the ongoing floods. I include those in my county of Tipperary. We have a little more insight than most people into the hardship flooding causes for people. I live in Clonmel, a town in south Tipperary, which unfortunately is synonymous with flooding. We have experienced serious flooding in the town on an almost annual basis in the past few years and there are immediate and long-term effects. I hate to be the bearer of bad news for people in other southern and western counties but it is important the full implications of the effects of flooding are understood by people and made known to the wider public. At a time of crisis, members of the public who are not directly affected are sympathetic, as we have seen in the past week. We have seen people being helpful. I pay tribute to the community spirit evident throughout the county since the flooding started.

What will happen when the cameras stop rolling? Life will not return to normal for victims of the floods. The smell of stale water and sewage will linger for months. Solid wood floors will be warped and will have to be replaced. Some concrete floors will be so wet that dehumidifiers will be needed at considerable expense before new flooring can be laid. Carpets and furnishings must be thrown out. As we saw on television last night, councils are taking away furniture that has been destroyed. Even after dehumidifying, walls will be stained, even if they are painted, and dampness will set in again. Houses will need extensive electrical work, often full rewiring. Warping and rot will mean some interior walls and even ceilings will need to be rebuilt. Some houses are only fit to be knocked. Consideration may be given to relocating these residents.

I have seen this happen in Clonmel many times, with businesses on the quay being affected. One hotel located there was forced to close. It had a devastating effect on the town because people were worried about access, with many of the bridges and access points cut off such as Convent Bridge, the Gashouse Bridge, the Raheen Road and the Davis Road. People do not realise the problems caused by floods but business really takes a hard knock.

For farmers, the floods have become a nightmare scenario. After an unusually wet year that had played havoc across all sectors of agriculture, the IFA has stated farm incomes have fallen 41% in two years. If the collapse in prices for output this year is not enough, they must witness their livelihoods being washed away before them, as they look on helplessly at land and livestock, often in a state of distress, rendered inaccessible by high flood waters. The fodder harvest was poor this year and maize and beet that farmers should be harvesting now will be ruined or, at best, of poor quality. This is not a matter for politics but the Government must look at the compensation being set aside for farmers, which at €2 million is nowhere near enough.

As well as the financial cost, there is also a human cost. The dampness that will linger in affected homes is a danger to the health of anyone with breathing problems or joint pain. There is also an emotional cost. We are a house-proud nation and people have spent years getting their houses nice. Many had prized items of furniture or heirlooms they had kept in their houses and to see them destroyed is awful for them. It is emotionally scarring to see the work and money put into a home being washed away while not being able to do anything about it. That is one of the elements that is hardest to accept.

The greatest cost will be the fall in the value of the property because it is a flood risk. There are insurance companies which will not give quotations to people from south Tipperary. It does not matter where a person's house is; someone who lives in south Tipperary is seen as a flood risk and, therefore, cannot be given a quotation. Victims of flooding will see their premiums shoot up or, in the worst case scenario, they will be refused insurance entirely.

I pay tribute to Clonmel Borough Council, Civil Defence, the Garda, the Society of St. Vincent de Paul, charities and the Defence Forces. Almost 7,000 sandbags were delivered in the south Tipperary area to alleviate the worst effects of the flooding. I mentioned two brave soldiers this morning, Corporal David Aherne and Private Jason Daly, who saved two people from a car. They were waist high in water and very frightened and there is no doubt that they would have been in a far worse situation were it not for the brave efforts of those lads who experienced such terrible conditions.

When we look at what were once rivers, we now see lakes. It is difficult to see where the flooding is and where the river used to be. For those caught in such a situation, when the surface of the water was rough with waves, it was horrific.

Clonmel has experience of flooding to the extent that it has an early warning system, with a data feed from all the tributaries that feed into the Suir. It is computerised and linked with the borough council. The town clerk, Mr. Billy Doyle, and his early response team got together this week with Civil Defence, the HSE and borough councils workers. They were up all night on Sunday night to monitor the situation. Tipp FM and Tipp Mid West Radio did a great job carrying updates people wanted.

I acknowledge those schools that closed because they did not want to put the children or parents at risk because cars going through flooded areas also have an impact on houses in the area, causing a tidal effect. The flooding also causes damage to cars that must be abandoned, putting real pressure on the Fire Brigade when the passengers need help to get out of the floods. The Army was simply superb in dealing with such instances.

The Taoiseach came to Clonmel, visited the Army barracks and went with local representatives to look at areas of the town that were flooded. The number who came out to help, working as good neighbours, was incredible. They were cleaning up and mopping up, taking in others in flooded areas.

Phase 1 of the flood alleviation programme is almost complete in Clonmel; therefore, areas that had previously flooded did not flood this time. While there is such disruption with the flood alleviation programme, €13 million has been invested and the early warning system, in conjunction with the level of experience, meant that people had advance notice. When the programme is finished, we will see a significant improvement but for those I have mentioned who have suffered damage to their property and are suffering ongoing worry about the weather, it is no comfort. The system is now so refined people know to ring for information and put sandbags in place but older people often find it too much to lift sodden sandbags.

The good neighbourliness and the help offered by those involved in the clean up process, Civil Defence and the Army cannot be praised highly enough. We also received extensive help from community gardaí and gardaí in general with traffic management to try to avoid a further impact caused by the flooding. Little solace was taken in Clonmel from the fact that other areas were so badly affected. What we have known for many years in Clonmel is being seen for the first time in these other areas. The devastation that was clear on the faces of those affected was very upsetting because we had felt it ourselves.

We must examine how community welfare officers will assess need. When someone's house is destroyed by a flood, the upset does not go away. To fix it and still be in an area prone to flooding is very distressing. People have made life-changing decisions, having had to move from what may have been their family home all their lives or from one that had a particular impact on them.

I thank the Minister of State for the opportunity to speak about this serious issue today. I reiterate my sympathy to all the families and people who have been so affected by this awful inclement weather.

Photo of Dan BoyleDan Boyle (Green Party)
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At this moment the ESB is briefing representatives from the Cork area regarding the release of water from the Inniscarra dam and its effect on the flooding events in Cork during the past week. I hope to be there shortly to hear what has to be said because I believe an investigation is needed. That event was possibly a factor in what transpired. That said, the flooding that occurred in the country this week would have occurred in any case. We are talking about the degree of flooding and the damage that was caused in consequence.

The re-emergence and regularity of catastrophic weather events in the past decade would have been met ten years ago by county and city engineers with the attitude that such floods were a once in 20, 30 or 50 years event. Everybody now realises that the fact they are occurring every two to five years represents a fundamental change in weather and climate. We cannot divorce ourselves from the fact that we have contributed to the climate in which we live and this is one of the effects.

The other side of the coin is that local authorities have far from commended themselves by the type of planning decisions that were made throughout the country, for example, the large degree of building on flood plains. Every member of a local authority during the past 20 years must take stock of decisions they made as individuals-----

Photo of David NorrisDavid Norris (Independent)
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Hear, hear.

Photo of Dan BoyleDan Boyle (Green Party)
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-----or acting in concert with each other, very often in conspiratorial political groups, to override the decisions of planners and county managers and organise the building of housing and other amenities on areas that should never have been built upon. We are beginning to live with the effect of this.

I speak as a representative of the Cork area which, in the current set of circumstances, was probably the largest affected. Geographically and historically, Cork has been open to widespread flooding. Cork has an island city centre and an area below sea level. However, despite those factors, tremendous efforts were made, especially with the creation of the Cork main drainage scheme in recent years to lessen the impact and incidence of flooding. The events of the past week have undermined much of the confidence built up with regard to those changes during recent years. The reality is that we can and probably will be subject to this type of flooding more regularly.

What is especially disturbing about the Cork situation is that in addition to the devastation caused in Cork city, on the same night and on different watercourses throughout County Cork, half a dozen other towns were affected. These were not only the traditional towns of Mallow and Fermoy which are always prone to flooding but the towns of Bandon, which was particularly hard hit, Clonakilty and Skibbereen. This shows we are dealing with an extraordinary set of circumstances. If we add in the effects of flooding in Limerick, Clare, Galway, Westmeath and Athlone, we are talking about a new reality that requires a different type of thinking, a different way of allocating resources and a better way to be prepared for a new future that will involve catastrophic weather as part of our future lives.

I do not believe this reality has been grasped because the policy implication means changing how we live our lives. As we debate whether particular taxes should be levied or whether we should change public behaviour at certain times, we should be conscious that the reason for proposing such measures now, even if they are politically unpopular and in the short term may bring about a widespread public reaction, is to avoid the type of occurrences we experienced in the past week. The fact is they are likely to be more regular and more intense in the future.

I do not believe we have had a proper or honest political debate on these issues. It could very well be that this is what we will be most concerned about in the future. In recent years we have been rightly concerned with our immediate economic well-being and issues such as health and education come into our intellectual debate from time to time. However, we have not debated the extent to which this issue will impact on people's everyday lives, where they live, how they live and the services and amenities that are immediately available to them. This more than any other issue may determine our future given the impact of a situation such as this, not only in terms of flooded buildings but also in terms of the knock-on effects of not having access to drinking water for days on end, the spill-over effects, if one pardons the pun, of what that does to public health, and the economic by-product of people not being able to work, generate wealth or distribute that wealth in the economy.

As an island country and, ironically enough, as a country that is meant to be least affected by the effects of climate change in the future, when we see how this impacts on us now and is likely to worsen in the future, we can understand some kind of context for how it will affect the planet. Believe it or not, we are getting away with it more easily than are others and yet we are suffering as a result. Until we have that realisation and understand the reality for people whose homes are submerged in water, who are isolated as a result of events such as this, who are uncertain as to when, how or if these events are going to happen in the near or medium-term future, we will fail.

I hope we learn from the experience and discover whether our emergency services responded adequately and quickly. Given the resources under which they operate, I believe they performed heroically. As other speakers said, the concept of individuals and communities being under pressure has reinvented the traditional Irish attitude of meitheal. However, we cannot rely on these factors in every set of circumstances. There is an expectation that the system of government we have, at both national and local levels, is there to meet an immediate need when a crisis arises. There is uncertainty on the part of people who find themselves with damaged houses and without access to water. They may not find the situation is being responded to as it can be.

If we learn appropriate lessons from this there may be in it the means of economic salvation. There is need for a massive repair programme which will be a stimulus in itself, not only by dealing with the effects of the damage created by the immediate flooding but by putting in place proper safeguards that will meet the future dangers of probable higher levels of water in many watercourses throughout the country.

On those grounds, I hope the debate that follows is less about the immediate effects we have suffered and more about the long-term situation we must face as a people. I am confident there are some in this Chamber who are willing to participate and lead such a debate. I look forward to how the Government, the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government and the Minister of State with responsibility for the Office of Public Works respond to this debate and to consideration of the likelihood of future incidents of this type.

Photo of Feargal QuinnFeargal Quinn (Independent)
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May I have the permission of the House to share equal time with Senator Norris?

Photo of Geraldine FeeneyGeraldine Feeney (Fianna Fail)
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Is that agreed? Agreed.

Photo of Feargal QuinnFeargal Quinn (Independent)
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The Minister of State, Deputy Brady, is very welcome to the House to hear this debate. I listened very carefully to the two previous speakers. It was very interesting to hear the contrast of the two. Senator Boyle talked about the long-term effect on the environment of what is happening with the change in our climate and the threat to the entire future world ecology. It was very interesting to hear and was a reminder to us of what is important. I listened very carefully to Senator Prendergast. I have had a business in Clonmel for some 15 years and every time there is a flood we get telephone calls saying Clonmel is affected badly.

However, Senator Prendergast was not necessarily talking about the physical repairs. She spoke of the wonderful spirit of neighbourliness that occurred in Clonmel. She spoke of all those others who came to help, such as the neighbours who came next door and all the social workers and volunteers who decided to help their neighbours. We need this sort of spirit. It was good to hear that in at least three areas in the south and west, local authority employees decided not to go ahead with their protest and strike yesterday because of the huge threat to their local communities. Yet, I saw on television last night that the workers in Athlone went ahead with it although the devastation in that area was evident.

This is a reminder that to solve our economic problems, we will need such a spirit of friendship, neighbourliness and what I term economic patriotism. I refer to what was evident in so many areas yesterday. People in Dublin have been protected in this regard and have been watching the floods on television, reading about them in newspapers or hearing about them on radio. We both heard and saw the devastation that has occurred. I do not refer to property but to people such as those who had given their lives to their homesteads, families and whose personal effects have been destroyed but whose neighbours came to help them with their tractors, cars, trucks and bicycles. This represents the spirit of what one can do when one is put to the pin of one's collar or when one realises one has a crisis on one's hands and that one must help one's neighbours and one another to get out of trouble. People have done this so well in these areas.

However, this is exactly what we must do as a nation with the threat that is facing us on an economic basis. While I am talking about the two Ps, namely, property and people, I am really talking about the effect on people and their willingness to work. It has been proven repeatedly both in Ireland and elsewhere that whenever a threat emerges, people are willing to help their neighbours. We must do this as a nation because of both floods of water and the economic flood that assails us. We must make sure that we get together and decide that it is up to us to do something about it. Let us not think of mé féin, but of ourselves as a nation. We should establish what we can do to ensure that all the threats facing us will enable us to act like those who acted so well in the last couple of days in the face of those flood threats, which I gather will not recede as quickly as one otherwise would wish.

Photo of David NorrisDavid Norris (Independent)
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I thank my colleague, Senator Quinn, for sharing time and I welcome the Minister of State. This undoubtedly is a significant climatic event that can be placed in a number of different contexts, that is, local, national and global. At the national level, the most significant point is that a natural calamity was augmented by the release of water. I do not take sides in this regard and am not trying to apportion blame. However, it is important to recognise that in at least two or three of the worst affected areas, the floods were worsened significantly and dramatically by the release of water from hydroelectric projects. It may well be that the dams themselves were in danger and that would have been a far greater catastrophe. However, this raises the question of water management and its efficiency. What plans were in place and at what point did those responsible know? We now have computerised weather models and significant weather forecasting capacity that can be reasonably accurate. Consequently, there must have been at least five or six days' warning of this kind of rainfall pattern over the island of Ireland. This may be the time, not for recrimination but for planning forward to ensure steps can be taken to ensure this does not happen in the same way in future. There should have been other channels and areas to which the excess water could have been directed instead of down towards major population centres in which there was inevitable destruction.

My second point concerns the comments of an old farmer. I always have liked old farmers because my grandfather was something of one and they have much wisdom. The person in question stated that the rivers have not been managed or drained for the past 40 years. The management of our water resources should be brought to the attention of local authorities. In addition, this affects the question of the management of drinking water. Although this country is rained on from one end of the year to the other, we experience water shortages. I do not understand this and there is something dramatically wrong with water management here.

On the global level, this also is a significant event because although it is not anything like as catastrophic as the kind of events that have taken place in Bangladesh and elsewhere, we have got our toes wet. People have received a significant shock and my heart goes out to them. Perhaps, as a nation, we will realise the reality of global climate change. This is the good that can come out of it. Senator Bacik, with the assistance of campaigning groups, produced fine legislation on climate change. She received a series of undertakings from the Government which were never honoured. This afternoon I attended a joint sitting of the Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs and the Joint Committee on Climate Change and Energy Security. Although the latter all-party committee also produced a Bill and recommended it to the Government, nothing has happened. I am unsure whether the Minister of State, Deputy Áine Brady, will have an opportunity to reply as I am unsure of the format of these statements. All Members will testify that the business of this House is as chaotic as anything happening in Gort, Ennis or Limerick. However, if she gets the opportunity, she might address the question of the Government's response on climate change and its commitment to legislation. The imminent climate change conference in Copenhagen finds both the Taoiseach and the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government absolutely naked in respect of any legislative proposal they could demonstrate convincingly to our neighbours.

On the local level, I was moved by Senator Prendergast's comments as she put the human face on the crisis. I saw pictures in the newspapers and images on television of a religious institution, the name of which I am unsure of. I believe that wonderful Roman Catholic bishop, Willie Walsh, lives there but I cannot remember what it is called. The water was pouring out over a marvellous stone breast-high crenellated wall as though it were a sluice gate. It was absolutely astonishing. I listened today to a radio broadcast that featured a man from Gort who was in tears talking about his furniture shop. He had been obliged to dump all his stock. Moreover, he had employed his two brothers in the business over the past 15 years but they are now on the dole and are jobseekers. His mother did not know where she would end up and he observed that he was standing there looking out at a 17 acre lake. This is absolutely astonishing, as are the roads that have been swept away. As for Cork, I note the involvement of the electricity systems. While I do not blame anyone, this issue must be examined and I am glad Senator Boyle made that point.

In respect of the Glucksman gallery, a joined-up approach is required. There must be a relationship between the electricity generators and the weather forecasters. Moreover, one needs a list of significant buildings of either cultural or social interest that must be warned. It is a real shame the Glucksman gallery, which is the result of truly benevolent giving on the part of a great Irish-American woman, should be so sadly damaged. I pay tribute to the staff in UCC who managed to rescue so much in difficult circumstances.

My final point is that we must consider insurance and Senator Prendergast is quite correct in this regard. Apart from the hard-hearted insurance industry, which must be monitored as it attempts to milk the floods to put up its premiums, I thank God for those decent trade unionists who, even on their day of strike about which I had some reservations, suspended the strike in the interests of neighbourliness and helping other people in a critical period. This is a significant climatic phenomenon. If we are wise, we can learn from it. However, if we are foolish we will ignore the lessons it is possible to draw from it.

Photo of Francis O'BrienFrancis O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
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I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Áine Brady, as Members debate this important subject, namely, statements on flooding. I agree with the comments of all previous speakers. The farming community has been mentioned and one should consider the amount of rainfall experienced over the past year, as well as the highly unfortunate bad weather this spring and in the early summer involving much rainfall. Farmers already were suffering depression over the bad weather and depressed prices. The major flood disaster that struck in the past week has put many farmers under extreme pressure. Many cattle were housed but even some houses in County Monaghan were flooded. The same is probably true of other parts of the country. Slatted sheds were also flooded in low lying areas of County Monaghan and cattle had to be removed to sheds on higher ground. I am sure this also happened in County Galway and many other parts of the country. Farmers are suffering severely as a result of the flooding.

County councils will have a major problem in the months and years ahead with the roads as a result of the flooding. In some parts of County Monaghan rivers have burst their banks and washed some of the minor roads away. Monaghan town did not feature in the news reports but one of the main roadways there was flooded. I was not aware of any houses being flooded or any serious damage such as there was in other parts of the country. Nevertheless, many roads were flooded and car engines blew up when people drove into the floods. Insurance companies and county councils will face significant bills.

Many houses in counties Galway, Cork, Tipperary and Westmeath were damaged and people's livelihoods taken away. My heart goes out to all those whose homes, shops or goods suffered serious damage. That is very sad.

I compliment the Taoiseach and the Government on putting in place €10 million for immediate relief measures. I ask the Minister of State, Deputy Áine Brady, to convey to the Taoiseach and the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government the need for more funding when this €10 million is spent. This is an emergency fund the Taoiseach and the Government have put in place to provide immediate relief for those who most need it. I compliment the Government on doing this as swiftly as it did. There is no doubt the Minister of State will convey to the Government the need for more funding when this is spent. The €10 million may be adequate today but it will not be in two or three weeks' time. I am sure the Government will make more funds available when that money is spent.

The goodwill of neighbours and communities who have come together has been wonderful. It is great to see this in a crisis. I do not wish to repeat myself but the roads will need to be addressed, as they will deteriorate drastically as a result of the wet weather. The floods have torn away some of them, as I have seen in parts of counties Monaghan and Cavan. I am sure other Senators have had similar experiences. I refer to main roads where houses are blocked in by flood waters. There are three or four families in my area who cannot get out of their houses unless they cross fields to high ground. I spoke to the engineer in Monaghan County Council today about this issue. Some funds will have to be made available to raise the roads in these areas. I know houses in County Galway, the Minister of State's home area, and across the country were blocked in. It is frightening for people to be locked into their homes.

I have no doubt the Minister of State will convey the views of this Chamber to the Government.

6:00 pm

Photo of Fidelma Healy EamesFidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
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I welcome the Minister of State. Future flooding is now predictable. It is no longer unpredictable. The fact that it is predictable means that people are extremely vulnerable unless the Government acts responsibly. We all insure our homes and properties against disasters or acts of God. Insurance companies, however, have issued a clear warning that we can no longer say flooding is unpredictable in areas where it has already happened. My county which is also the home of the Minister of State has been devastated. The county manager is quoted in TheIrish Times todayassaying 13,000 square miles of land have been flooded and 65 roads have been closed. That is only a minor number of roads compared with all those that carry "Road Flooded" signs. The Garda was slow to close roads.

We face a mammoth task. I understand €10 million has been allocated but that would not even take care of the damage caused in the Oranmore electoral area which is minor compared with the damage caused in Galway East. I ask the Minister of State to listen to her colleague, Senator O'Brien, who has said this is just a start. This places a huge onus on the Government to find the money needed. I urge it to go to the European Commission to get it, if necessary, because there must be a financial plan in place. I would like to see a commitment given to the House that it would receive a monthly update until the clean up plan has been sorted out because this involves a major short-term issue.

The long-term cost will be the preventive plan because we must learn from this experience and seek solutions. We need a national emergency template similar to that in place in other countries. We know that flooding is predictable because of increased rainfall owing to climate change because, unfortunately, flood plains were built on during the crazy Celtic tiger years. While many communities such as those in the Oranmore and Carrowmoneash flood plains resisted these developments and paid large amounts of money in pursuing objections to An Bord Pleanála, developers have persisted in lodging applications. Some have even been granted.

As Senator Norris said, we have a lackadaisical attitude to cleaning our waterways and drains which need to be regularly maintained. For several years a family had to be evacuated in Oranmore owing to flooding. As it had made the national news, one and a half years ago it was decided to dredge the river behind the Allied Irish Banks branch in Oranmore to prevent further flooding of the family's home. To get permission to clean up one river, three agencies, the Office of Public Works, Galway County Council and the National Parks and Wildlife Service, had to be asked. In the recent flooding this area was not affected as quickly as others. This highlights the benefits of dredging rivers to allow water flow easily to the sea.

Oranmore is close to the sea. This time the flooding affected areas further inland. I know of a family in Derrydonnell with a 13 week old baby whose home was flooded. Other areas further inland such as Bushfield Gardens and Claregalway were completely flooded. In Cúirt na hAbhann up to 30 houses are flooded, with all of the back gardens in the Lakeview estate. Further east, Kinvara and Ballinasloe are flooded. The whole area of south Galway has been described as a disaster zone.

What is the financial plan for these affected areas? How much will be committed nationally and how much to Galway? How much will be set aside for the immediate clean-up and the subsequent significant investment that the county manager has said is needed in the road and bridge infrastructure? Already where the water has receded in Galway, one can see the roads ripped up. This is coming at a really bad time in our economic history as already the councils have no money. They will have to be resourced nationally. If the Government cannot raise the funds nationally, it will have to seek them from the European Central Bank. Up to €54 billion has been secured for the banks at an interest rate of 1.5%. We cannot leave people's homes, businesses and livelihood without support.

The larger issue is what will be the long-term solution and plans for a national emergency template. What if this were a nuclear emergency at Sellafield? Ireland needs to be more ready for emergencies. As Senator Norris said, we are not used to natural disasters in this country - thankfully. However, that is the reason we were unprepared for the latest flooding. We need a co-ordinated emergency plan between national and local agencies.

Galway County Council, Galway Bay FM, Civil Defence and the Army have been wonderful in dealing with the floods. However, as I passed through Athenry this morning, the firemen there informed me they were not needed. Apparently, the fire chiefs consider call-outs should only be to deal with life and death emergencies. In Athenry there were only three call-outs to help with the flooding compared with 130 in Ennis. These three call-outs involved moving a woman from under three feet of water, relieving flood waters at the agricultural college to allow motorists to proceed and assisting a man whose car had got stuck in a flood. These are common emergencies. Roads are the least of our worries when it should be people trapped in their homes. I know of a woman who is homebound in Ballinacloughy, Maree, because of the floods. The council will not raise the road for her and Civil Defence is only present as backup. Surely the fire service should be engaged in assisting this woman.

I look forward to hearing the Minister of State on the short and long-term plans for dealing with the aftermath of this flooding and a template for national emergencies.

Photo of Denis O'DonovanDenis O'Donovan (Fianna Fail)
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I appreciate the magnanimous and generous gesture made by my colleague Senator McCarthy and the Labour Party in giving up their Private Members' time for this debate.

No place has been left untouched by the recent devastating floods. Thank God, no lives have been lost to date. After a disastrously wet summer and with so much rain already in the early part of the winter, my concern is that there will be much more rainfall by 1 May. I hope we will not have another onslaught but we must be prepared for it if there is.

South-west Cork - in particular, Bandon, Clonakilty and Skibbereen - suffered severe damage in the floods. It is worrying that Bandon saw damage never seen before in my lifetime. Is the dredging and drainage management of the waterways being carried out? If not, why not? A dredging operation of the River Bandon, at the cost of €1.3 million, was done near Dunmanway some five years ago which I hope alleviated flooding in the area. However, this piecemeal approach to waterways management could have had knock-on effects downstream on Manch and Bandon. A full appraisal of such works must be carried out.

I am also concerned about the questions raised about the Inniscarra dam and the flooding of Cork city. Despite the co-ordinated efforts of local authorities, the Department and other agencies such as the HSE, it is not good that there has been an unspoken argument between them and the ESB about the release of water from the dam. This must be better managed and releases should occur when tides are low and the rivers can take the water. A combination of swollen rivers and high tides is a catalyst for disaster when one tries to release water from a dam.

After 35 years of waiting, the new relief road for Skibbereen was completed two years ago. At one stage on Friday night, 20 November, this new road was covered in three feet of water, an alarming development on such a new road.

There was some criticism earlier of the Taoiseach's announcement of a €10 million package. He indicated this was the first amount to be allocated to kick-start the fund. Today's Irish Examiner states that only €10 million is being provided, which indicates to me that the reporter concerned was not listening to what the Taoiseach had to say. This type of unnecessary remark can inflame people. The Taoiseach said that as a starting point €10 million will be provided. I am sure more money will be provided in due course.

Senator O'Brien referred to the farming community. There is no doubt that the farming community, be they dairy farmers or subsistence farmers in the west of Ireland or in west Cork depending on REPS and other payments, have had an appalling year. As a farmer's son, my heart goes out to them. I am concerned they are facing into a winter of water-logged land and so on.

There is no doubt that shopkeepers in areas such as Bandon, Skibbereen and Clonakilty have suffered tremendously. This flooding came like a thief in the night. Waters rose suddenly, which nobody expected or could have predicted. Given our planning laws and the forecasting services of Met Éireann we should be able to obtain more advanced warning of flooding. It is obvious to anyone that when the Lee Valley becomes swollen to approximately 18 inches above normal levels and the Bandon River becomes swollen, coming events cast their shadows afore. People should be on the ball.

Thankfully, we did not have flooding in Bandon this time around. However, traditional fishermen and locals involved in seafaring know that a combination of a high tide, heavy rainfall and south-east wind inevitably result in flooding. I am concerned about our early warning system. We are speaking here today about what we can do to assist in this regard. I am not suggesting there is a lot we can do other than to provide whatever assistance we can through Government agencies. Proper warning systems would allow shopkeepers when flooding is expected to move items upstairs or off the premises. Also, people could move furniture upstairs in an effort to minimise any damage. I can only speak about Cork because I have not visited other parts of the country but these floods came like a thief in the night. In these days of forward planning and so on this should not have happened.

I compliment the local authorities, councillors, city workers, firemen, Civil Defence, HSE, Naval Service and volunteers for their tremendous work during this plight. Despite the difficulties we are experiencing and the economic gloom and bad weather this summer, when push came to shove these people came out and worked through the night in difficult conditions to help alleviate the situation.

I believe we should devise a national plan for water management. If one currently exists, it is inadequate. I am concerned about insurance companies refusing to provide insurance cover against flooding. We must introduce legislation to address this because it is not good enough from insurance companies who have made a great deal of money from people living in areas that are likely to be flooded. As far as I am aware approximately 70% of people who take out home insurance never make a claim against it. The insurance companies should not be allowed to refuse cover to people in these areas. People, in particular home owners, must be guaranteed insurance cover until such time as we have in place successful water and flood management such as those in Mallow, Fermoy and Kilkenny. This type of system must be put in place in vulnerable areas such as Cork city and so on. I thank the House for the opportunity to contribute to this debate.

Photo of Michael McCarthyMichael McCarthy (Labour)
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I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Haughey. I record my appreciation of the agreement of Senator Brendan Ryan, whose Private Members' Bill was due to be debated this evening, to a discussion on this urgent matter. I am aware issues arose in the other House in terms of the length of debate on this issue. However, I am delighted this House - it is most important I say this - has been able to put aside party politics and unite behind the people affected by this severe and disastrous flooding. I am glad the Government acceded to our proposal to take this business this evening. It is the least we can do for the victims of the flooding.

Information was made available to me last week by way of a parliamentary question raised in the Lower House by a colleague. This information deals with local authority resources and the number of jobs lost on local councils throughout the country and also contains figures as they pertain to Cork County Council. Senator O'Donovan will be aware that in excess of 500 jobs on Cork County Council have been lost during the past year. These relate to contracts not renewed, outdoor local authority staff and area engineers who have not been replaced owing to the ban on recruitment in the public service, which is having a telling effect in this particular area. I believe this ban on recruitment is impacting in terms of the stretching of resources over a smaller workforce and its ability to respond to the crisis that was last week's flooding. Unfortunately, it continues in other parts of the island tonight.

I pay tribute to those involved in the fall-out from this crisis. Areas such as Skibbereen, Clonakilty and, in particular, Bandon have been badly affected by the flooding. On Saturday afternoon last, I along with the Mayor of Bandon, Councillor Gearóid Buckley, visited what is left of some of the businesses in south Main Street. While I am normally well composed, my heart bled for those who have lost their entire business, many of whom will not, unfortunately, be in a position to recover from this crisis. These people were barely surviving the economic circumstances of the past 12 to 18 months. What was keeping them going was the prospect of business over the Christmas period. One particular business has been completely wiped out. The owner was in tears because all of the Christmas stock had been destroyed and he had no guarantee of insurance cover. I witnessed skips being filled by the drivers of lorries and tractors, members of the Garda Síochána, local authority staff and volunteers. One former business is now being used to distribute soup, tea and sandwiches to the many volunteers involved.

I agree with Senator O'Donovan that it is miraculous nobody was badly or fatally injured as a result of this disaster. We must be thankful for this. While I do not wish to take from all that has been done, I honestly believe there is almost a disconnect in terms of the coverage of this crisis. To witness at first hand what has happened and to listen to people's stories is eerie. It had a profound impact on me in terms of how we can respond. The Garda divisional headquarters for west Cork was completely flooded. There were many patrol, unmarked and civilian cars floating around its yard while concentration inside was on moving files and equipment upstairs. The bursting of the river banks had untold disastrous consequences for many organs of different function in the town of Bandon. Towns and streets in Skibbereen have been destroyed and people are prisoners in their own homes. Many homes and businesses have been flooded by in excess of 7 ft of water.

We must consider how we are to deal with this issue. While climate change will inevitably impact on this, the degree to which we cannot determine, we can be sure this type of flooding will be more frequent in the future. It is imperative we carry out flood relief works in areas known to be blackspots for flooding. There is also the issue of warnings and the role the ESB played in this by the release of water from the Inniscarra dam. I accept there are other issues and I am not judging anybody, but the ESB played a huge role in that regard. All the western part of Cork city is still submerged in water. Drinking water is not available to thousands of homes in Cork city and county. It is unbelievable.

I am convinced this is our equivalent of 11 September 2001. The measure of the political response will not be reflected in the relief aid that is made available. I have an issue with the €10 million. It is a little like the response at Christmas 2004 when the tsunami hit Asia with such devastating consequences. Our initial response was something equally paltry. I do not say that disparagingly as it was amended by the Government when the sheer scale of what happened became obvious. I do not believe €10 million is enough. It would not go far in the two areas I mentioned, Bandon and Skibbereen. We debated overseas development aid in this House last Wednesday evening. Ireland has a commendable scheme, although it has been reduced due to budgetary difficulties. However, it is €750 million per annum. We have our own clear and urgent need for as much funding in this country.

There will be issues relating to the role of the HSE, the Garda Síochána, the local authority and the Army. The Irish Red Cross is expert at dealing with the fall-out from disasters such as this. We should examine the role the Irish Red Cross can play in responding to such events in future. There is also the huge issue of how the insurance companies will respond to the claims that will inevitably be made. Some businesses have been told by assessors not to go near them. Where does that leave these people? We must ensure there is an adequate compensatory scheme for them. Lives have been destroyed. I was lucky last Thursday to be able to return to Dunmanway. I travelled to Cork and had to meander around various towns to get back. It took longer than usual but I was one of the lucky ones. There were cars submerged in water and abandoned along the R586.

I welcome the fact we are debating this important issue. However, there must be a continuous debate about our response. People's lives have been ruined. There must be a co-ordinated, strategic response in terms of flood warning systems and flood relief works. Has the scheme whereby the €10 million will be administered through community welfare offices been properly thought out? Community welfare officers are under huge pressure due to the economic circumstances in the past year. The officers in my area in west Cork were involved in a type of protest from July to the end of October this year. They were not accepting any extra applications for mortgage subsidy or community welfare. The Government has now dumped more work on these people. Is that the wisest course to take? Can we have a commitment that there will be a bigger, strategic and co-ordinated response so we can help ease the suffering on our doorstep?

Photo of Déirdre de BúrcaDéirdre de Búrca (Green Party)
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I welcome this opportunity to make a statement on the recent flooding. I feel very passionately about flooding because in my eight years as a member of Wicklow County Council some of the most difficult planning situations I had to deal with or be involved with were cases in which flood plains were being zoned. Public representatives have probably only begun to wake up to the enormous responsibility they have when zoning land to ensure they are not planning development in areas which will cause major flood risk problems in the future. Unfortunately, this is something we have not been sufficiently aware of until now.

I listened with interest to the debate today. Senators have spoken movingly about the distress of constituents throughout the country. It is right and proper that we use our positions to do that. However, there is something fundamentally unsatisfactory about the fact that at national level, all the political parties are saying the right things about flooding - how dreadful it is, asking how it happened and saying more must done through the provision of emergency funding and so forth - but at local level on the part of all the political parties there is very irresponsible zoning of flood risk areas and flood plains. Even as we speak decisions are probably being made in which people are convincing themselves that it will not make a difference or that they can zone an area if they put in certain measures as well.

It must be recognised that we are in a new era in terms of climate change. We will continue to experience the type of high and extreme levels of precipitation we have seen over recent years. Our drainage systems will be under extraordinary pressure and the type of flooding we are experiencing at present will happen again. Hopefully, we will be able to mitigate and reduce the drastic impact of that flooding, but it will happen more regularly. What we once considered to be once in 100 years storms will become once in 50 years, once in 20 years or once in ten years storms. We must do everything we can, particularly in the way we plan our communities in future, to ensure we do not worsen the situation or create an environment where people are left in the conditions we have seen through the excellent coverage by the national broadcaster. Through that coverage one is almost with the people in their kitchens, walking around with them knee high in flood waters and empathising fully with them.

One of the worst things that can happen to anybody is to have their home and belongings subject to flooding. It has an effect not just at the time of the flooding but in the weeks and months afterwards when the clean-up is taking place and one must go through the awful business of trying to find out if the insurance company is prepared to provide funding for the work required to restore the property and replace the belongings that have been damaged. We have heard many stories of insurance companies that are refusing to provide insurance to homeowners who have claimed once as a result of flooding of their property.

As people who are involved in making critical planning decisions, we cannot continue to allow this to happen. At this time when we are discussing the issue of zoning, all political parties should pledge to ensure that what they say at national level will be implemented and complied with by their councillors at local level. If they do not, they will be guilty of extreme hypocrisy. There is little good when the damage is done asking the Government to provide funds to mitigate or try to remedy some of that damage because at that stage the expense is huge. People are already trying to calculate the economic damage that has been done throughout the country as a result of flooding. Every political party must resolve that the message will go to local councillors that the flood guidelines the Minister, Deputy Gormley, is due to introduce in the near future must be adhered to.

This country must also examine the issue of the accountability we will seek if people continue to zone and make planning decisions in irresponsible ways. Recently we have seen in the banking sector how people behaved in a very reckless way and appear to date to have suffered few consequences for that behaviour, even though the livelihoods of many people have been destroyed. We must examine the planning process and if people are ignoring recommendations of planners and flood management guidelines, proceeding to zone flood plains and grant planning permission in areas that are susceptible to flooding or are recognised as flood plains, there should be some serious penalty and the people who are making those critical decisions should be held responsible. We must make this a serious issue and make the consequences clear so we can persuade councillors in future to be mindful of this when making planning decisions.

With regard to what can be done, I agree with Senator Norris's remarks about water management. There must be better water management systems. The water framework directive is a very good policy framework for improving our water management systems. The policy is based on national river basins and catchment areas. We must ensure local authorities are working together well so they do not view this matter in terms of artificial local authority areas, but as the natural catchment areas and basins of our rivers. We need to identify flood risk and flood prone areas and flood plains in our county and local area development plans. We need to ensure full implementation of the national guidelines that will be introduced soon by the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy Gormley.

We must ask local authorities to audit their drainage systems and set out clear plans over the next year or two to improve them. The Government must ensure flood protection measures in high-risk areas are implemented and that funding is providing. We will not have enough funding to implement them everywhere, but we are all aware of certain high-risk areas, including Clonmel where flood protection measures are not completed but are in progress, Bray and other areas that are regularly subjected to serious flooding.

We need to consider the issue of reservoirs and hydroelectric power stations to ensure the types of problem experienced in the past week or so do not recur. We must increase their capacities to take account of the fact that flooding will be a more regular occurrence.

Photo of Paul BradfordPaul Bradford (Fine Gael)
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It is fair to say the dreadful weather of the past week has visited disaster on tens of thousands of families. My colleagues have clearly outlined the significant scale of the problem in counties Cork, Galway and Tipperary. As with the state of the economy, we are where we are and it is a question of what we can do, what leadership can be provided by politicians and what approach we will take in conjunction with local authorities to alleviate distress, provide whatever financial compensation is possible and plan for the future.

Grave scenes of devastation in towns and townlands, communities ravaged by floods, families in distress and people being helicoptered to safety have been shown on our television screens and across the media. The latter is a scene we associate with disasters abroad, but it happened on our doorstep. In County Cork, the town of Mallow benefited significantly from flood alleviation works carried out by the OPW, Cork County Council and Mallow town council. Other towns where works were not as advanced, such as Fermoy, were hit by flooding more severely. Many towns in west Cork have been gravely affected.

The national response should be the swifter implementation of the flood relief plans that are on the shelves of various Departments and councils. This will require funding, but the questions for the immediate future relate to the clean-up and what compensation can be provided. The figure of €10 million for relief is a drop in the ocean, if the House will excuse the pun. There is an absolute expectation that, notwithstanding our financial state, there will be a genuine effort to secure serious levels of compensation for those who have been most gravely affected financially or in terms of property.

My colleague, Senator Healy Eames, stated we have been in a position to provide money for the banking system. This was badly needed, as we all require a banking system, but an equivalent effort must be made to compensate the thousands of families that have been affected. Unfortunately, the moneys received from house or business insurance will not solve the problem, since policies in this respect can prove difficult. In most cases, compensation will not be payable under these policies and people who claimed 12 or 24 months ago are no longer covered. The State has an obligation to respond to the financial distress of which we are all aware. We can all agree that €10 million would not solve the problem of one town in the west or south west. I hope the Minister of State, in his summation, will indicate that greater investment will be provided.

Like many colleagues across parties, I wish to express my appreciation for the people in State offices, be they council, HSE, OPW or departmental officials, who have worked so effectively during the past week to try to help. The public servants were at their best, a fact that needs to be noted at this difficult time in the debate on the future funding of public services. This shows that we need a public service that can respond to the crisis of the time. The current response has been effective, but it can only go so far, given the scale of the problem. One cannot turn back the tide or make the floods disappear. For some towns and villages, the crisis will continue during the coming weeks.

Local authorities will be left holding a large bill. They must try to pay for the overtime of staff who have been working nearly 24/7. They must also repair roads, dangerous bridges, gullies, streams, rivers etc. The Department must work closely with local authorities to address this urgent need for funding, resources and manpower.

All colleagues in the Chamber might have received a submission today from one of our councillors in Cork, Councillor Daly, who suggested the Department should consider a social employment-type scheme on a trial basis. In this way, local authorities would be allowed to employ people who are currently unemployed at a rate of approximately €400 per week, comprising the social welfare payment and a further €200. In Cork and other affected counties, approximately 200 people could be employed to help repair local roads, re-open drains, clean up etc. Machinery helps a lot, but the councils need more people to work with them during the coming weeks and months, which will be crucial. There is an embargo on public sector recruitment, but this is a national disaster and resources must be provided to local authorities. At a time when virtually 500,000 people are unemployed, we must give some consideration to this suggestion on a short-term basis. In Cork, this sort of direct employment would shorten our lengthening dole queues by approximately 200 people.

As part of the broader debate, we must listen to the argument made by Senator de Búrca on planning and development, but we are not in a position to knock down housing estates which have been built. It is a question of planning for the future but, more importantly, dealing with the current crisis, financially and physically.

Photo of Larry ButlerLarry Butler (Fianna Fail)
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I wish to share time with Senator Ó Murchú.

Photo of Geraldine FeeneyGeraldine Feeney (Fianna Fail)
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Is that agreed? Agreed.

Photo of Larry ButlerLarry Butler (Fianna Fail)
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I sympathise with all those throughout the country who have had their homes flooded. I come from a town, Graiguenamanagh, that floods on a regular basis. We are well used to flood waters, as the town floods virtually every year.

My house is beside the canal, 20 yards from the water. Some years ago we decided to take action and construct defences. We decided during the renovation work to construct all solid floors inside, take out all of the vents underneath the floors, put in new DPC and have flood barriers on the doors. This option is available to most people whose property is flooded on a regular basis. Where there is regular flooding, there should be a grants system under which houses can be adapted to protect against flooding. This would be invaluable. We all can speak about building on flood plains, but there are many houses not built on flood plains which are being flooded. We are dealing with a new phenomenon. More rain falls now in one hour than used to fall in a week. I agree that we are not taking a long-term view and that we should plan ahead. Many drains are not being cleared on a regular basis, which causes flooding.

It is not true to state there is nothing we can do. We are our own managers when it comes to defending ourselves against flooding. The quay in Graiguenamanagh was raised successfully three or four years ago. As a result, unless there are extremely high floods, the water will not come over the quay. We should look at raising quay heights in certain areas, which would not cost vast sums of money. We should ensure such an investment is made. We should invest to ensure houses are designed to withstand water. Flood barriers fitted on doors will keep water out of most houses with solid floors.

We should look at the possibility of not using timber floors in houses. They are not necessary. One can have a solid floor with a membrane. All bathrooms could be fitted with bucon traps which allow water out but not in. That is another way a house with a bathroom on the ground floor is flooded - water rises high outside and then runs back up pipes. A bucon trap could be fitted to prevent flooding in bathrooms and stop water from coming into houses. That is vitally important. I ask the Minister to look at the possibility of providing grants towards adapting houses to prevent flooding.

Photo of Labhrás Ó MurchúLabhrás Ó Murchú (Fianna Fail)
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I thank Senator Butler for sharing his time with me. I want to reflect on some of the comments he made. He made some exceptionally good and pragmatic suggestions, which is what we need. We can foresee circumstances where flooding may recur and if it is possible to treat a house to ensure flood waters would not get in, the matter should be looked at in the context of the provision of grant aid because a stitch in time could save a great deal of money at a later stage.

Incidentally, I am glad these statements are being made, for which I thank the Leader. I note that he stated on the Order of Business he would be prepared to provide a certain amount of time for a number of weeks to discuss the issue of flooding where it might be necessary to do so. That, in itself, is a good idea.

It is not necessary to reiterate what has been stated about the trauma experienced by so many throughout the country. Even to watch it on television, it is clear it is a shocking experience for anyone to have his or her home invaded by water. One's home, above all else, is the one place one thinks of as being a refuge and safe.

There were a number of messages from the terrible events of the past few days. First, on the quick response of the Taoiseach and the Government, the fact that the Taoiseach visited all of the flashpoints was very much appreciated. It underlined clearly that the Government was anxious to respond promptly. It also was important to respond by committing financial assistance.

I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Mansergh, who has been right at the heart of matters, not just throughout the country but in the town of Clonmel also. There has been high praise for him today which I am sure he does not need for the manner in which he made himself available at the coalface.

Let me make a suggestion. Everybody is underlining the nature of the crisis and emergency. That is true but there is a need at local level to bring together all those with resources and also those in the commmunity who want to help. It is overwhelming the way communities react in times of crisis. We should formalise this and bring the various groupings together almost like - I do not mean this in the wrong sense - a council of war because there may be a degree of fragmentation. There is potential in this and I recommend that statutory and community bodies come together. It would indicate clearly to those on the receiving end of this terrible crisis that we were united because Irish people are good when it comes to such matters.

Photo of John Paul PhelanJohn Paul Phelan (Fine Gael)
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I wish to share time with Senators O'Reilly and Cummins.

Photo of Geraldine FeeneyGeraldine Feeney (Fianna Fail)
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Is that agreed? Agreed.

Photo of John Paul PhelanJohn Paul Phelan (Fine Gael)
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I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Mansergh. I also welcome the opportunity to speak in this important debate on flooding and the terrible difficulties seen across the country in recent days. It looks as if we will see more in the next few days because the weather forecast is not good.

I refer to the difficulties encountered in my part of the world, particularly on the lower parts of the River Nore. There was a very successful OPW flood relief scheme completed in Kilkenny city at great cost a number of years ago. However, it has resulted in transferring the effects of flooding to Thomastown and Inistioge. In Thomastown, where my office is located, the downstairs dwelling was flooded on Friday morning last. It was the worse flooding in 41 years. It seems the relief works in Kilkenny have led to worse problems for people in Thomastown and Inistioge.

I appreciate the OPW has a difficult job in overseeing flood relief schemes across the country, but I have never been able to receive a satisfactory response from it to queries I have raised, particularly with regard to Thomastown, an issue I have been raising with it for years. To be perfectly honest and blunt, there is far too much political interference at that level in how public money is spent. Senators from the Green Party have mentioned there is too much political interference at planning level, which might well be true. I do not see consistency in the actions of the OPW, so I would like to see a change in the way it carries out its work.

Apart from the rain, the biggest cause of flooding is the change in land use that has occurred throughout the country. Large parts of rural Ireland have been planted with trees and new drainage systems and such areas have seen much greater volumes of water coming to a point more rapidly than heretofore. That is leading to difficulties at those locations. Senator Butler mentioned Graiguenamanagh and Tinahinch, which experienced bad flooding last weekend. Recently, I met the chairman of Carlow County Council whose house in Loughlinbridge on the River Barrow is under two feet of water. There are significant difficulties throughout the country, not just west of the Shannon or in County Cork.

Senator Butler's proposal is the best one I have heard for a long time in the Seanad - that the Government should investigate some sort of initiative whereby people could protect their own dwellings. It is a very good idea and I would ask the Minister to examine it.

I also want to discuss the construction of new roads, especially motorways. We had a problem in Dunkitt on the edge of Waterford city where flooding has always been an issue. It experienced the worst flash flood in the country, with water rising above the roofs of cars. It only affected a small number of houses but they were badly damaged. The new Dublin-Waterford road is a welcome development but it appears that the construction work has redirected water resulting in a disaster for those in affected areas.

Much damage has been done to local roads also, as previous speakers have said. While local authority staff numbers have been reduced, I am aware there is machinery available to do the work that used to be done manually, such as cleaning drains and opening shores. That is no longer done but when it was carried out in the past, there was less damage to roads as a result. It should be resumed now.

Photo of Joe O'ReillyJoe O'Reilly (Fine Gael)
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I express my sincere sympathy with the victims of flooding throughout the country. It is a horrible thing to happen to anyone. It happened to me once and it is a terrible domestic experience. While this is happening throughout the country, there are certain blackspots. The Cavan-Monaghan constituency is not immune from the problem as there are pockets of flooding. Individuals have been badly affected. This week, one local newspaper carried a front page photograph of a gentleman whose house was submerged in water. Other people's cars were submerged on roads. Much farmland, which was sodden already, is under water. While we are not in the same awful position as other counties, the Minister of State should note that the Cavan-Monaghan area has suffered localised effects. Although the numbers are small, the people affected in Cavan-Monaghan will require the same kind of relief package as those in the blackspots. The impact is as great for them as for those affected by flooding elsewhere. I ask the Minister of State to consider that matter seriously.

We will have to put more money into a drainage programme because the old river drainage schemes carried out by county councils and the OPW have been left aside in recent years. It will not halt the rain but it will have an impact on the solution. It was clearly a mistake to build houses on flood plains. In addition, we put too many houses in hollows and valleys to avoid affecting the skyline, so that should be examined.

I want to put on record the degree to which the Cavan-Monaghan area has been affected. Farmers have been hit and road surfaces have been damaged, which has implications for the roads programme. In addition, individual householders have been flooded in pockets. They should get the same relief as those in other flooded areas.

Photo of Maurice CumminsMaurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
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The first phase of the Clonmel flood relief scheme, which is in the Minister of State's constituency, will not be finished until next year. There are two other phases which have not even gone to tender. I spoke to Councillors Acheson and Murphy earlier today and they say those two phases have not gone out to tender. Will the Minister of State update the House on the current situation? I am sure he has that information.

The sum of €10 million is paltry and totally inadequate to help families in dire straits as a result of this disastrous flooding. Such inundation has not been seen for 40 or 50 years. The €10 million is being administered by the Department of Social and Family Affairs but the Irish Red Cross should also be involved. It administered grants for people affected by flooding some years ago. Will local authorities be given the money to repair roads and bridges which have been damaged by these floods? They cannot continue with the reduced road grants they got last year. If the same thing occurs this year, we will have potholes throughout the country as a result and local authorities will not have the resources to repair them. I ask the Minister of State to address those issues.

Photo of Martin ManserghMartin Mansergh (Tipperary South, Fianna Fail)
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I thank all the Senators who contributed to what has been a very good debate. It was full of suggestions and proposals, as well as expressions of concern for those worst affected, and commendation for those involved in the humanitarian rescue efforts of recent days. We all desire the same objective of alleviating distress in the short-term. Once the emergency has been overcome, however, we must tackle the longer-term problems. In so far as we can, we will seek to mitigate the effects of flooding and climate change.

There are broadly two types of situation involved. There are towns or parts of cities where flood protection schemes have been completed or are under way. In other areas, such schemes have yet to be devised, if they are appropriate, which they may not be in all cases. It should be noted that where works have been carried out, and to the extent to which they have been completed, they have made a big difference. Mallow north is the most obvious example, while Carrick-on-Suir is another one. In Clonmel there was quite a bad flood in January, although not as bad as the current one. In the meantime, phase one of the town's flood protection scheme has nearly been completed. More credit should have been given to that situation, which means that areas that were previously badly flooded have been spared to a greater extent. There are another two or three weeks in the first phase. There is one exception, namely an archaeological find in a particular area. It will take until the end of January for that hole to be plugged. Phases two and three of the scheme will start towards the end of the first quarter of next year.

Photo of Maurice CumminsMaurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
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Have they gone to tender yet?

7:00 pm

Photo of Martin ManserghMartin Mansergh (Tipperary South, Fianna Fail)
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The contracts will be signed in January. They have gone to pre-tender.

The Senator will be aware of the works that have been done in Waterford, which look fairly well. As far as I appreciate, they have not prevented flooding in Waterford because the scheme there is not complete. There are a number of towns with flood relief schemes, including Ennis, Waterford, Clonmel and Mallow. The one in Fermoy is only just starting. All these works should be completed within the next couple of years. There is no political interference whatsoever in terms of the selection of towns or cities in which projects must be progressed. The schemes are based purely on need. The main political task is to ensure funding is in place to support the schemes. Over the past two or three weeks, before the flooding problem of the past few days, I and senior officials were in conversation with the Department of Finance about next year's budget. Since I was appointed, I have accorded that the highest priority in my office.

It is important to stress there is not a cap on the schemes run by the community welfare officer in respect of distress caused by flooding. The €10 million, which is an initial allocation, has been deemed insufficient by many but, as the Taoiseach said, it is important to establish a budget line. The same applies to the agricultural aspect which involves a separate scheme. The important point is to establish the principle. If the funding is insufficient, I am sure it can be increased. The Taoiseach stated on the Order of Business that the county enterprise boards may have a role to play with regard to business.

Senator O'Reilly raised the question of relatively small incidents in Cavan which were none the less very severe to the people concerned. If my geography is correct, Cavan is more covered by lakes and water than any other county. Perhaps, therefore, the lakes take care of some of the problem.

As I stated in my initial contribution, the point is that there is a small works scheme. It was established by the OPW in the middle of last year. One aspect pertains to inland works and another to coastal works. It is open to local authorities to make applications to the OPW for assistance with relatively minor works that will make a difference.

We have a framework for emergency management. It was put in place in recent years and enables the Garda, the Health Service Executive and local authorities to prepare for and make a co-ordinated response to a variety of major emergencies, including flooding. It enables them to co-ordinate their efforts whenever a major emergency occurs. At county level, both in Clare and Tipperary, I have seen the system working very well.

My office, while not the primary response agency in such emergencies, has nevertheless supplemented the efforts of the local authorities in recent days by offering them services, manpower and equipment in addition to undertaking measures regarding its own schemes and defences. For example, in the mid-west, the OPW has provided pumping facilities in Plassey, Limerick and the Sixmilebridge-Bunratty area. It has also drafted in pumping facilities to Ennis and Shannon Banks and various areas of Limerick to help with circumstances there. As I saw myself, the OPW has been very active in the Galway and south Mayo areas by providing pumping facilities to clear roads and help relieve flooding around housing in less urban areas. The staff are in the affected areas all the time offering advice and collecting data. They also undertake aerial surveys. It is very important to have photos of the extent of the damage so the current floods can be compared with others.

With regard to Cork city wall, a preliminary assessment of all the defences in Cork city has been undertaken as part of the LeeCFRAM study. The assessment shows that all of the defences are generally in poor condition. To provide the necessary protection against fluvial flooding, it will most likely be necessary to replace existing defences rather than increase their height. The highest priority in the LeeCFRAM study is to increase flood forecasting so the ESB will have at least four days of warning before adhering to a set of regulations to be drawn up with regard to the release of water. This may be a joined-up system between the OPW and ESB. The LeeCFRAM plan is likely to be put out for public consultation within the next four weeks for 12 weeks. In the interim, the wall that was knocked down will be assessed as soon as possible and any action necessary will be decided upon jointly by the OPW and Cork City Council.

There has been much reference to drainage schemes. With regard to arterial drainage, the OPW has responsibility for a network of channels throughout the country as a result of arterial drainage schemes carried out under the 1945 Act. In this regard, it carries out an annual maintenance programme. The programme has an annual budget of approximately €19 million. In light of recent flooding events, the programme will be reviewed and, if necessary, changes made thereto.

I noted a point made by Senator Norris on the need to draw up a list of significant buildings, including cultural buildings and hospitals, that might be at risk of flooding. Many of us are upset that the art collections in UCC have been jeopardised by there being insufficient time to move them to a safe place.

Planning guidelines will need to be adhered to strictly when published. This will require changes in attitudes because, to date, people have sometimes taken the view that one should not worry too much about a flood plain if there is an attractive development thereon. We will have to worry about this in the future. Development plans will have to protect against flooding much better than they have done in the past. Preferably the developments should not be built on the flood plains at all.

I take the point that planners have, on the whole, tended to keep heights and hills free of development and to put housing lower down. This is a practice that will have to be examined. There are a lot of lessons to be learned from the experience of the past week or so on many levels. It is not a case of one solution being a panacea; a variety of measures will be required and different agencies will contribute to a solution. However, there is no doubt about the pressing priority attached to the issue. The flooding has brought us face to face in a way that floods in individual areas have not done with the real threat we are facing in the rest of this century and into the future. Other countries, especially what used to be called the Low Countries, had to put their defences in place 350 years ago. We will have to strengthen our defences no end.