Donie Cassidy (Fianna Fail)
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The Order of Business is No. 1, Labour Services (Amendment) Bill 2009 — Second Stage, to be taken at the conclusion of the Order of Business and conclude not later than 7 p.m., if not previously concluded, on which spokespersons may speak for 15 minutes and all other Senators for ten minutes and on which Senators may share time, by agreement of the House.

Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
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The decision of Allied Irish Banks to appoint one of its own as managing director at a purported salary of €633,000 is a direct challenge to the Minister for Finance, Deputy Brian Lenihan, and the Government. This is the second major internal appointment by AIB. The Minister clearly called for external appointees to be appointed. The timing of the decision is an absolute disgrace, coming only days after the NAMA legislation has gone through the Oireachtas. Either we place a cap on salaries or we do not. I hope the Minister will walk the walk rather than talk the talk on this matter. I do not believe any mechanisms should be found, either through bonuses or otherwise, to conceal the true salaries of senior banking figures. The credibility and authority of the Minister and the Government are being brought into question. It is time the Government took action and stood up to the banks. After all, we own many of them. This is happening at a time when the Government will be demanding sacrifices from everyone in the community.

On Sunday week last the Sunday Independent published photographs of the houses of union officials and their salaries. Whatever about the salaries, the publication of photographs of their houses was a gross invasion of privacy. Of even greater significance is the fact that it published a photograph of the house of the secretary of the Irish Bank Officials Association, with a photograph of the family car without the registration plates blotted out. This is a gross breach of security——

Nicky McFadden (Fine Gael)
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Hear, hear.

Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
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——at at time when the Garda Commissioner is calling on everyone to be cautious. It was grossly irresponsible of the newspaper to do so. It should send an apology because it is putting people's lives at risk.

Several Senators on this side of the House have called for a debate on social partnership and the economy to take place this week. It is not on the agenda and for this reason we oppose the Order of Business.

Joe O'Toole (Independent)
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The point made by Senator Cummins about the appointment referred to was raised previously by my colleague Senator Ross and it is significant. I ask Members to cast their minds back to the point made by me during the debate on the NAMA Bill last week when I said guidelines on credit control and the granting of credit were not worth the paper they were written on because the Minister could not direct the banks to do anything. I have felt all along that this is the case. We have no way of knowing whether this is the correct appointment. We can have views on it one way or the other, but the Minister needs to provide a legislative basis and statutory imperative for his decisions. There is no point in lifting the telephone or saying nice words to the banks, as it will not work in terms of the provision of credit or anything else. There should be a process agreed at the AGM by the shareholders for this appointment. The simple question of whether they would get someone else interested in the position would be answered if they placed an advertisement in the international newspapers. Nobody needs to argue about the matter.

Regarding the repayment and the reward, last week I referred to the French finance Minister raising this question. This week Mr. Gordon Brown announced he would publish legislation to allow him to intervene if he thought payments to bank leaders were too high. We should do the same here. We should not be arguing across the House every week, rather we should give in legislation the Minister for Finance the right to do certain things in his dealings with the banks. They should not be guidelines, words of advice or wish lists but decisions with a statutory basis. Until that is done in an open way, we will not know what is going on and will not be able to have trust and confidence.

I refer to the distraction caused by the Government's cynical announcement about laptops being given to every school. At a time when schools have neither a proper connection to broadband, when bandwidth is too narrow, even for one computer if there is one in the school, and when schools are dependent on a satellite connection where bandwidth is not wide enough and services are patchy and unreliable at domestic level, it seems this is a soft focus photo opportunity and a distraction from the real issues such as the attempts to increase the size of classes, reduce the amount of money for administration in schools and the numbers of teachers. This announcement should be put in its proper context. It is a cynical distraction from the real issues in the education system at a time when there is much more to be done. I talked about and asked for and welcomed the introduction of ICT in schools during the years but this is hardly the way to go about doing it. Let us have the broadband connection first and then we can proceed with the laptop scheme afterwards.

Alex White (Labour)
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As we had a fair level of debate on the banks last week, I will not dwell on the point. The central objective of the NAMA project is to get credit flowing in the economy. I cannot understand the contradiction at the heart of the argument in favour of NAMA made by some colleagues in the House. They freely state they do not believe credit will flow again, yet they still support the NAMA project. I cannot understand this. If one does not think the central objective will be achieved, how can one possibly support it? I am open to someone giving me the answer but it seems to be a fundamental contradiction.

I respectfully disagree with Senator O'Toole on the laptop initiative. I welcome the decision of the Minister for Education and Science, surprising as it may seem for me to do so. We are examining these matters in the run-up to the budget and the question of cuts is being debated. According to reports in the British press this morning, the British Secretary of State for Education is making a big play of protecting and preserving spending on education. Therefore, the ICT initiative in schools is important. However, it is very limited and far from being enough. I agree with Senator O'Toole on broadband but if we are to be fair in the House, we should welcome such an initiative, however modest it is. From my family and children elsewhere, I know access to ICT techniques in schools is of vital importance. When I was a member of South Dublin County Council, I was very proud when the Labour Party-led council was able to provide a laptop not just for every classroom but for every individual pupil in St. Aidan's, a secondary school in west Tallaght. Senator Hannigan tells me that in Uruguay a laptop is provided for every school pupil. This is a move in the right direction and should be welcomed. I agree that it does not go far enough. Will the Leader do what he can to ensure spending in education? In other decades with other generations we saw that preserving spending on education set a very important baseline for the future success of the economy.

I agree with what Senator Cummins stated on salaries in banks. Does the Minister's writ run in the banks or not? Whether he can make stick his statement on a €500,000 per annum will be a big test.

Dan Boyle (Green Party)
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As with other speakers I have concerns about the extent to which our financial institutions, despite the bank guarantee and recapitalisation schemes and the passing of the NAMA legislation after a great deal of detailed debate in this House, still act as though they are the people who write legislation and make the rules in this country. We need to debate this in the House. Clear signals have to go out to our banks and financial institutions that they are the groups being rescued by the Irish taxpayer despite their lack of competence at the very least in bringing about the economic turmoil that has resulted. Who they can hire and at what rate are not decisions that should be solely theirs from here on in. I have been shocked at the degree to which statements are made by financial institutions taking their policy as being writ before reaching any agreement with the Department of Finance or the Minister.

The debate on NAMA is now less about the vehicle for delivering recapitalisation and funds to the institutions to allow lending in the economy and more about the extent to which these banks and financial institutions are prepared to change their culture and behave differently in the new economy that needs to operate. The individuals who head one institution seem to act in a continual state of hubris. This is not in the interests of the country and does not respect the wishes of the Houses of the Oireachtas. We need to send out a clear signal through debate and, if necessary, through directive legislation to see that this type of behaviour does not persist.

I invariably agree with Senator O'Toole but I disagree with his denigrating of the proposal on laptop computers for schools. A debate on education and the protection of its funding, as called for by Senator Alex White would be——

Joe O'Toole (Independent)
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They are unrelated issues. These are like white elephants in the classroom.

Dan Boyle (Green Party)
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They should be discussed in the context of a debate in the House. We will always be in a chicken and egg situation on whether we should develop information technology hardware or the software and technology that allows us to use it. I would be happy to see any advance in supplying additional equipment and improving technology in the education sector. The point of the most recent revised programme for Government was to include protective measures for the pupil-teacher ratio and elevate education as an area of expenditure that needs short-term protection.

Nicky McFadden (Fine Gael)
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I concur entirely with Fine Gael's acting leader, Senator Maurice Cummins, on how the banks are running roughshod over the Minister and I compliment Senator Boyle on speaking so frankly and showing gumption by standing up and stating the case as it is. I regret this did not arise in last week's debate. It is quite repulsive that the banks still call the shots in deciding how they will appoint their personnel. It is disgusting and I feel sorry for the Minister that he is so embarrassed.

On the Adjournment debate I raised the fact that medical cards for all those aged over 70 are dealt with centrally in Dublin. I got through to the local office this morning after calling the freefone number repeatedly for three days but officials there could not help me, even though they went out of their way in trying to do so. I spoke to a lovely person who told me that I was lucky to have reached the office because up to 30 people could be waiting in the telephone queue. The website advised people over the age of 70 years to contact the HSE by e-mail or freefone but did not provide a contact name. This is the sole recourse available to a person who was given a medical card only to have it cold-heartedly removed in one fell swoop. The gentleman in question is attending a pain specialist and will have to purchase expensive medication. His circumstances have not changed in any shape or form. The official with whom I spoke referred the matter to her supervisor for a response. I demand that the Minister for Health and Children defend her policies before the House. I received a letter from her stating she was forwarding a question on open heart surgery on a baby with Down's syndrome to the HSE. However, when I telephone the HSE, I receive no positive answer for the over 70s. Where does the buck stop?

Ann Ormonde (Fianna Fail)
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I commend the Minister for Education and Science on providing laptop computers for schools. Backup infrastructure will be required to implement the laptop policy but I welcome the decision because it will further move us into the smart economy.

The supplementary report on the findings and recommendations of the National Economic and Social Forum explored the connection between child literacy and social inclusion and asked why literacy levels remained low among pupils in disadvantaged areas. Given that a national policy framework on literacy is about to be launched, we have a golden opportunity to discuss the reasons the barriers to literacy remain, even after concentrating on the issue for 25 years.

Shane Ross (Independent)
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I endorse much of what has been said about the appointment in AIB, news of which has leaked out in the past ten days. As Senator Alex White noted, this issue concerns authority and who makes the decisions in this country. More than six months ago the Minister for Finance and the Government made it clear that the appointment would be external. This was announced in the wake of the stunt the Bank of Ireland had pulled on the Minister in installing an insider as heir apparent within days of the previous chief executive's exit. At least this time around the Minister was going to use his 25% shareholding to show who was boss but the banks have put up two fingers to the Government and said: "We are not taking it from you". It is an extraordinary challenge to the credibility of a Government which has blinked after eyeballing the banks for six months. The matter is much worse than the appointment of a chief executive because there has been a fudge in order to disguise his appointment as well as the installation of an AIB director as chairperson. Two insiders have apparently been appointed to look after the interests of the taxpayer. These guys have shown that they are not acting in the interests of the taxpayer at all. That is not their job. The Government has been defied and appears to be sitting back and accepting this defiance.

I am not impressed by leaks indicating that Mr. Michael Somers, the head of the National Treasury Management Agency, will be installed as vice chairman of Allied Irish Banks. This is an exercise in camouflage to give the bank respectability. The vice chairman will be a eunuch because others in the bank will cannibalise him.

Mary White (Fianna Fail)
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Tá áthas orm a fheiceáil go mbeidh an nuachtán Ghaeilge, Foinse, thar n-ais amárach. Ba chóir dúinn go léir an Ghaeilge a úsáid — beatha teanga í a labhairt. Is mór an cabhair dúinn nuachtán Gaeilge a bheith againn, chun é sin a dhéanamh. Cuirfidh mé fáilte roimh athbheochan Foinse amárach.

Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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To add to the comments of Senator Cummins and many others, the Minister must urgently clarify his position beyond doubt. Having listened briefly to an interview he gave on the "News at One", while I do not believe he has blinked — to use Senator Ross's term — the leaks indicate that the bank has engaged in a pre-emptive strike.

The proposed dual role for the chairman gives rise to corporate governance issues. More important, however, is that with a deposit guarantee and the National Asset Management Agency in place, by the time recapitalisation has been completed the Minister will be the majority shareholder in the banks. As Senator Ross noted, this episode gives rise to an important question of authority. It is ridiculous in the current circumstances that a bank should be able to ride roughshod over the Government. The Minister must urgently clarify his position on the matter.

Public interest directors have been appointed to the banks. Perhaps the House could hear directly from Mr. Dick Spring, a highly reputable and reliable public interest director, and some of the other public interest directors on the matter.

I welcome the lifting of the blockade at Killarney National Park and compliment the efforts of the Irish Hotels Federation, Killarney Tourism, Killarney Chamber of Commerce and other bodies which liaised intensively and engaged actively in recent days to help people to see light. I also compliment Senator Boyle on his efforts last week which failed. I ask the Leader, perhaps through the good offices of Senator Boyle, to ensure we redouble our efforts in the matter. The persons involved have written to the Minister requesting that the five Oireachtas Members from Kerry South meet the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy Gormley, urgently to break the impasse.

Marc MacSharry (Fianna Fail)
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To add to Senator Coghlan's comments, I ask the Leader to make direct contact with the State representative on the board of Allied Irish Banks, Mr. Dick Spring, to request an explanation as to how this matter arose, whether an application process was in place and, if so, how it was managed. This would enable the House to deliberate on how the process was completed.

Following the enactment of the National Asset Management Agency Bill last week, I request that the Leader ask the Minister for Finance when, under section 2(10) of the Bill, he proposes to issue guidelines on making credit available to small and medium-sized enterprises.

I call for an urgent debate on the Border counties, specifically the issue of cross-Border shopping. There is a serious anomaly as regards the VAT rate which stands at 15% north of the Border and 21.5% here. As many Senators will have noted from media reports, the Tánaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment stated at the weekend that people must decide whether to support Her Majesty's Government or employment in this jurisdiction. I do not blame people for seeking value for money in these difficult times. However, there is an onus on us to take an innovative approach to the VAT rate in the forthcoming budget, perhaps by adopting the French model of applying different VAT rates to different products. This would ensure people would obtain value for money. The House should have a debate on how we can best achieve this objective and provide supports. I also pay tribute to the retailers of the north west, especially those in Sligo who have shown a lead in launching the fair dealers campaign. A group of retailers throughout the north west have come together to slash their prices and give value for money in light of the changed economic situation we are in and to compete with an unfair playing field a few short miles away which has a different VAT rate. They say it is as easy as ABC to support the economy because it assists economic recovery, benefits local services and creates local jobs. We in the Oireachtas must do what we can to adjust the VAT rate to help such people compete and give families value for money, which is what they want.

Ivana Bacik (Independent)
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It is clear there is immense concern on both sides of the House about the leaking of announcements from AIB and a need for a debate on control of the banks and who in them is calling the shots. It is extraordinary, in the wake of the lengthy debates on NAMA we had last week, that the taxpayer is shouldering the entire risk but the State, which should act in the public interest, cannot assert any control over who is appointed to the boards of the banks. How can the Government, which has €54 billion worth of bargaining power, be forced into what has been described as a compromise whereby it appears that the bank's choice will be appointed chief executive?

Senator MacSharry referred to section 2(10) of the National Asset Management Agency Bill. As many colleagues will be aware the Labour Party tabled an amendment to that section which called for the establishment of a credit mediator along the lines of that established in France. It would act as an ombudsman and intervene when banks fail to extend credit to viable businesses. I again call for a debate on that or a similar model which could be set up under section 2(10) as it is currently constituted because it is urgently needed to get the banks lending in the public interest. However, ownership and control of the banks is another question.

I also ask for a debate on the use of imprisonment. A report in The Irish Times yesterday——

Alex White (Labour)
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Was it about bankers?

Ivana Bacik (Independent)
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It was unrelated to bankers but Senator White has seen a link. A debate on the use of imprisonment generally is needed. The report in The Irish Times referred to Dr. Conor O'Neill, a consultant psychiatrist at the Central Mental Hospital, who reports that 8% of male remand prisoners have psychotic symptoms, a rate ten times that in the community generally and which is of immense concern. New prison in-reach and court liaison services were set up to try to divert people from custody. We are lucky to have Professor Harry Kennedy coming to speak at a seminar I am facilitating on the subject of mental health among prisoners which will take place at noon tomorrow in the audio visual room. I ask colleagues to attend it if they can to hear more on the subject.

Ivor Callely (Fianna Fail)
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Many comments have been made regarding the position of our banks. I congratulate the Minister for Finance, Deputy Brian Lenihan, on all he has done to correct our banking system and the manner in which he has diplomatically and correctly gone about assisting in changes in the management structures, given the hamstrung position in which he finds himself. It is important that we have correction of our financial institutions, something which has been taking place. There have been smooth transitions over recent months. It is crucial that the best people are appointed to the appropriate positions and that the best mix of management teams are in position to deal with the current challenges. On the situation pertaining in AIB, about which there has been much comment, we have not yet seen the position fully played out and will see appropriate action being taken by the Government.

I ask the Leader to contact the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy John Gormley, or, if necessary, the local authorities. I understand various local authorities have increased their commercial rates, a decision which is made by the elected members of the various councils. However, business personnel are experiencing genuine difficulties in paying increased commercial rates. Some mechanism will have to be found to accommodate the current difficulties. I ask the Leader to contact the appropriate authority and to report back to the House thereafter.

Paschal Donohoe (Fine Gael)
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I agree with my colleagues who called for a debate on the banking matters that have been discussed so far this afternoon. I disagree with Senator Callely's description of the Minister for Finance as being hamstrung at the moment.

Fidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
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Hear, hear.

Paschal Donohoe (Fine Gael)
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No previous Minister for Finance was more enabled or strengthened, in the context of the banking situation, than the current Minister, who led the way for the recapitalisation of the banks, introduced the banking guarantee scheme and was praised for his virtuoso performance during last week's debate on the National Asset Management Agency Bill 2009. If any Minister in recent Irish history has had the ability to challenge the banks, it is the Minister, Deputy Brian Lenihan. That is what this country wants him to do now. I would like to emphasise two points that have been made by my colleagues. It has been repeatedly suggested during the debate on the banks that we need to change the culture of Irish banking. Those who are at the forefront of that culture spoke in the last week when they said "No" to change. They do not want it, which is why severe and strong Government action is vital.

We have a duty to emphasise the obvious point that the banking sector is perfectly willing to publicly challenge a decision taken by the Government that introduced NAMA, the recapitalisation scheme and the bank guarantee to assist that sector. We must respond to the attempts of the banking sector to challenge the legitimacy of the Government's authority in this area. They must be responded to and challenged. I am aware that a recently published book, "Who Really Runs Ireland?", is doing well in the bestseller lists in the run-up to Christmas. It is clear who the banks believe to be really running Ireland.

Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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Will the Leader arrange for the Minister for Health and Children to come to the House to discuss the transfer of the processing of medical cards of those over the age of 70 from regional offices to Dublin?

Ivor Callely (Fianna Fail)
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Hear, hear.

Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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Last week, a constituent of mine was refused treatment by her doctor unless she paid €50 on the basis that she did not have a current card. The card in question was reissued in April 2009 and is valid until 2011. When I contacted the relevant processing office which has been centralised to Finglas, County Dublin — it is the opposite to decentralisation — I had to spend 15 minutes waiting on the telephone before I got a reply. The information one is given in such circumstances might be inaccurate. The whole situation is quite unacceptable. I intend to resolve this case today, one way or the other. I am prepared to contact this woman's doctor and direct him or her to provide services to my constituent, who has a current medical card.

I ask the Minister for Health and Children to come to this House to explain why this nonsense has been allowed to develop in the Department. She is the ministerial head of the Department of Health and Children, and the Health Service Executive is responsible to her. I understand that all medical cards are to be processed in Dublin from now on. When they were dealt with in regional centres like Roscommon, everyone was able to get an immediate response. This is a retrograde step. We are going backwards, not forwards. I ask the Minister, Deputy Harney, to come to the House to explain the HSE's inadequate response to my constituents' concerns about the retention of medical cards.

David Norris (Independent)
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I would like to ask the Leader if he has any further news about the case of a Nigerian who is being deported. I thank my colleagues from all sides of the House who wrote to the Minister about the case, which I have raised previously. Last week, many of us met in the corridors a pair of engaging gentlemen who are lobbyists for the tobacco industry. They disingenuously expressed concerns about the health of the nation and about tax receipts etc. I have since been briefed by the Irish Heart Foundation, which has pointed out that the lobbyists' concerns are hypocritical. History clearly shows us that the global tobacco industry has been deeply implicated in the smuggling about which the lobbyists were complaining. In 1998, for example, a British American Tobacco tax executive was convicted of accepting bribes from a smuggling syndicate in Hong Kong. In 2004 Philip Morris had to pay $1.25 billion over 12 years so the European Commission would drop smuggling charges. In 2008 Canada's two largest tobacco companies, Imperial Tobacco and Rothmans, pleaded guilty to aiding and abetting smuggling. The reason they are squawking now is that the cigarettes are not theirs but are counterfeit and they are getting nothing out of it. They are approaching us in order to put the squeeze on the Government not to do anything about raising tax revenue on tobacco in the forthcoming budget, which I sincerely hope the Government will do. The real problem is the fines are too low and not enough people go to jail.

Last week in this House the question of executions in America was raised. The man in that case was brain damaged as was shown by medical examination. He had various psychiatric disorders. Mr. Justice Richard Johnson, who is retiring as a very distinguished judge, has suggested we should re-examine the death penalty because it might have a deterrent effect. It has not in America. Some 80% of executions in America are in the south. The overwhelming majority of murders take place in the south. It obviously does not deter. In order to do this, we would need to disentangle ourselves from the European Union, the Council of Europe, and various treaties. We would need to hold a constitutional referendum, which would be extremely complex and difficult. It would seriously undermine our efforts diplomatically and internationally to intervene in places like China and Iran. The Chinese are murdering people judicially in Tibet and we have all raised questions of people in Iran being executed whether they are women, Kurdish or gay people. I strongly oppose this and I hope other Members will also.

Rónán Mullen (Independent)
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Hear, hear

Labhrás Ó Murchú (Fianna Fail)
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I compliment Senator Mullen on a recent television performance in which he made a robust defence of the rights of the individual, particularly when it comes to character and integrity. We must accept that it is not acceptable to replace fact with fiction even if it is seen to be a good story. A broadcaster has enormous power and influence, which must be used responsibly. I am convinced that Senator Mullen would not have found himself in the position of having to defend the rights of the individual if he had not been a Member of this House and if he had not also expressed certain sentiments on this. For that reason he brought kudos to this House and to all public representatives, and I salute him for having done so.

Is mian liom cur leis an méid a dúirt an Seanadóir Mary White maidir le athfhoilsiú an nuachtán Foinse. Is cuimhin liom go raibh díospóireacht sa Teach seo níos luaithe i mbliana nuair a bhí deireadh ag teacht leis an nuachtán. Dúirt Seanadóirí ar gach taobh go raibh díomá orthu go raibh sé sin ag tarlú. The important thing about the relaunching of Foinse is that it will be distributed each Wednesday with the Irish Independent. The importance of that is that it will reach so many people. Foinse is very important in so far as it brings the Irish language into the centre stage. It will also help us all to keep up to date with changing terminology, and up to date with current affairs trí Gaeilge. I compliment everybody, including the Minister the publishers, the Irish Independent and all who are participating in this. It is a good day for the Irish language.

Donie Cassidy (Fianna Fail)
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Hear, hear.

Fidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
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As an associate member of a teaching union, I have been somewhat disturbed by the e-mails I have been receiving from the union encouraging me to vote in favour of industrial action. It is the right of unions to do so, but the question is whether it is responsible for the union leadership to be encouraging strike action at a time of national economic collapse. I do not believe they speak for the majority of teachers. They do not speak for the majority of teachers I know, many of whom are partners of or married to people in the private sector. Based on the ballot, 55% voted and of those 77% voted in favour, which is only approximately 40% of the total number of teachers. I ask the Leader to make every effort to speak directly to the Taoiseach and the Minister for Education and Science to ask them to redouble their efforts to prevent this national day of strike next Tuesday. I know it is the intention of the majority of teachers to be in the classroom.

On the subject of laptops in schools, ICT is a very important learning tool. Every study on literacy and learning indicates that computers in schools improve learning outcomes. However, what is the point of computers if the school does not have reliable broadband connectivity? What is the point of computers if teachers do not have adequate training to use them and to teach their pupils how to use them? Funding for resource teachers who provide computer training was withdrawn last year. This is too important an issue for anybody to play politics with it. The reality is that the computers in schools programme is only a gimmick unless it is done right. As such, I support others in calling for a debate on information and communications technology in schools. There is no point in providing for that in some schools but not in others, thus creating further inequality in the education system.

John Ellis (Fianna Fail)
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I support those calling for a debate, prior to the budget, on the overall budgetary strategy. There were suggestions in this House last week that students were sleeping in cars. I understand Senator Buttimer undertook to investigate the veracity of these claims in Cork. Will he report to the House on his findings, as he said he would? I am sure he is diligent enough to have investigated the situation thoroughly.

I agree with Senator Healy Eames's comments regarding teachers. Several teachers have contacted me in the last week to say they are being forced to participate in strike action next week despite having no wish to do so. First, they do not want to neglect their students and, second, the financial consequences of losing a day's pay will be severe for some of them. We should ask the teaching unions to reconsider their position before next Tuesday. There are ways for unions to protest that will not be at the expense of students and members alike.

Dominic Hannigan (Labour)
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I draw Members' attention to two good news stories in recent days. The first is the reopening of the northbound Dublin commuter rail line following several months of disruption. The project was a logistical nightmare but was completed within budget and ahead of schedule. We must give Iarnród Éireann the credit it is due in this instance. It will mean a significant improvement in journey times for thousands of commuters.

Second, I welcome the results of yesterday's European-wide survey indicating that Irish road deaths are now among the lowest in Europe, having reduced by approximately 100 in the past two years. Moreover, deaths on Irish roads are now at their lowest level since records began. This achievement is the result not only of increased driver awareness but also of the introduction of random breath testing some years ago. Credit is due to two persons in this regard, namely, Mr. Gay Byrne, in his capacity as chairman of the Road Safety Authority, and the Minister for Transport, Deputy Dempsey. The latter stood firm in the face of substantial opposition to push that measure through. It was the right action to take and has had a direct impact in saving hundreds of lives. I urge the Minister to stay true to his principles by pushing ahead with the introduction of lower blood alcohol limits for motorists. This survey suggests that the number of road deaths can be reduced further, perhaps even to as low as 100, if that change is made. I compliment the Minister on his work to date and encourage him to persist with his proposals.

John Gerard Hanafin (Fianna Fail)
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Last week I inquired about the Internet streaming of the business of this House to the media, by which I referred to the broadcast media. The only way to increase public awareness of the way in which debates are conducted in this Chamber is by letting the public see the work we do. This House is host to a fine level of debate with many different views being expressed. The debate is sometimes very lively, always useful and often non-partisan, as we saw this morning. I thank Senator O'Toole for clarifying the point, for those who were unaware of it, that our debates are streamed on the Internet. That broadcasting should be extended to television stations.

Given that the Government has agreed to allow Opposition parties in the Dáil to put forward their budgetary proposals——

Jerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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It has not. The Senator is factually incorrect.

John Gerard Hanafin (Fianna Fail)
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If I am factually incorrect, I will be delighted——

Jerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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On a point of order, it is a pre-budget debate in the other House. The Senator is misleading the House, as the Cathaoirleach knows.

John Gerard Hanafin (Fianna Fail)
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The question will arise as to how the Opposition would deal with the €4 billion budget cut.

John Paul Phelan (Fine Gael)
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And show the Government parties how to do it.

Jerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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Is Fianna Fáil in government?

John Gerard Hanafin (Fianna Fail)
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The Cathaoirleach is a well known referee. May I have injury time?

Jerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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The Government parties cannot govern.

John Gerard Hanafin (Fianna Fail)
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It is not the time for insults.

Jerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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The Government parties have no policies and want us to give them some.

John Gerard Hanafin (Fianna Fail)
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Last week the leader of the Labour Party in the House said he would not know whether to laugh or cry if we had such a debate but that such a debate was necessary. It needs to be held in the public domain because we need to know what the Opposition parties would do and how they would collect the €4 billion.

Jerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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What will the Government parties do? Will they ask the Tánaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment?

John Gerard Hanafin (Fianna Fail)
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It is disingenuous to pick out the obvious changes that will be made in the budget and say we would not make those cuts.

John Paul Phelan (Fine Gael)
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I did not interrupt the Senator but he might note, if he checks the record, that the two budgets in the past 12 months were preceded by statements from the Fine Gael finance spokesperson on where specific cuts could be made and the same will happen in advance of the budget on 9 December.

I join Senator Hannigan in congratulating CIE on its speedy success on the Dublin-Belfast line. Will the Leader ascertain what will happen on the Dublin-Wexford line? No sooner had one problem been solved when another emerged yesterday morning, which will seriously discommode many people who travel by train daily from the south east to Dublin daily to work. May we have a debate before the budget on the future of the semi-State sector, with particular reference to a number of difficulties that have emerged in CIE and a number of other semi-State bodies? They account for a significant proportion of public expenditure and we should have a discussion on the sector before the budget is finalised.

I support colleagues who have expressed disagreement with the Department of Education and Science's announcement on the provision of laptops. This is a good idea but based on where the Leader comes from, he will probably verify my view that one cannot access broadband services, including satellite broadband, everywhere. This is also the case in large chunks of counties Kilkenny and Carlow. Providing laptops in schools where broadband is non-existent is akin to installing light fittings in buildings without providing an electricity supply. While I agree it is a desirable objective and it is easy for those who represent urban areas to support it, this new provision will have no impact on those whose children go to school in rural Ireland where the infrastructure is not in place.

Like previous speakers, I also condemn Allied Irish Banks over the leaked report that it will appoint another insider to the post of managing director. The bank previously appointed an insider as chairman. We own 25% of the institution and the Minister for Finance has pushed the NAMA legislation through both Houses. He has significant clout in the Act to ensure the banks follow his lead and he should take action.

Eugene Regan (Fine Gael)
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There is no doubt AIB has outwitted the Minister for Finance on its choice of managing director and on executive pay.

Dan Boyle (Green Party)
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There is a great deal of doubt.

Eugene Regan (Fine Gael)
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Last April the Minister announced a cap of €500,000 on the pay of chief executives but not on the pay of senior executives in banks. It is interesting no such general limit applies to them. The cap has been disregarded in this instance, which highlights why the Minister is bottom of the list in a Financial Times survey published today of finance Ministers in the European Union. One of the criteria used was the swiftness with which Ministers had grasped what action was required and their effectiveness in implementation. He failed that test. The Minister has confirmed that we will be notifying the NAMA legislation which involves a bailout of Irish banks. It must also comply with European Union guidelines, to which I have already referred. One of those guidelines refers to a cap on executive pay. Where the Minister fails perhaps the European Commission may pick up.

Another survey featured in today's newspapers reports that the International Financial Services Centre has plummeted in international competitiveness rankings. The IFSC contributes approximately €1 billion in corporation tax revenue, which is 17% of our corporation tax take, and employs 25,000 people. The head of State Street Bank in Ireland, Mr. William Slattery, has indicated that the recent 4% increase in levies brings the marginal tax rate to 48% and that this has had a detrimental effect on the competitiveness of the IFSC.

The Labour Party and others propose a third rate of tax. The Labour Party would apply the new rate to incomes above €100,000. While, superficially, this may seem attractive, it would have a serious cost to the State and would do irreparable damage to the IFSC which is such a source of tax revenue and employment.

Rónán Mullen (Independent)
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I thank Senator Labhrás Ó Murchú for his kind words, which are deeply appreciated. At a symposium on education in Crescent Comprehensive College, Limerick last weekend, which I addressed, a person raised the issue of the provision of electronic white boards in schools. This led to a brief and interesting discussion of the merits of such white boards. Many people were of the view that the jury is out on the question of whether they contribute to better educational attainment. That said, it is clear that we are coming from very far behind in the provision of information and communications technology in our schools. In this Chamber in the last year, I called for a trebling of our education spend.

I welcome the Minister's announcement regarding providing laptops and digital cameras in classrooms. I also hear the good sense from Senators Joe O'Toole, John Paul Phelan and others about the necessity of having broadband if any of this is to make sense.

People have given various illustrations of this difficulty. I am reminded of the lore about a politician from my own neck of the woods who, famously, in the 1970s met complaints from people that they were still waiting for telephones by the award of a little device from the boot of his car. Of course, it took a long time after that for the telephone to be connected.

John Ellis (Fianna Fail)
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Senator Mullen is too young to remember that.

Rónán Mullen (Independent)
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He shall remain nameless. I welcome this step towards international standards in information and communication technology in our schools. We have a long way to go but this is worthy of some welcome. We will wait to see what is done about the provision of broadband.

Tá áthas orm freisin, aontú leis na Seanadóirí Máire de Faoite agus Labhrás Ó Murchú maidir le teacht ar ais Fhoinse. Tá sé go híontach ar fad go mbeidh sé ar fáil laistigh de nuachtán laethúil Béarla mar cinnteoidh sé seo go bhfeicfidh an-chuid daoine é. Mar a dúirt an Seanadóir Ó Murchú, cuirfidh sé le cumas mhuintir na tíre seo a bheith ag cur is ag cúiteamh tré Ghaeilge faoi ghnáth chúrsaí an lae, go mbeidh an téarmaíocht cuí acu agus go mbeidh cúrsaí reatha á bplé inár gcéad teanga náisiúnta. I urge everyone to support the return of Foinse and to make it a part of their weekly reading diet.

Jerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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I begin by replying, through the Chair, to Senator Ellis. In Cork last weekend, I found that students are waiting for grants to be paid, living in very poor conditions and frustrated by the lack of leadership from the Department of Education and Science. I support Senator Healy Eames in asking the Leader when the Student Support Bill will come to the House. Senator Healy Eames is correct when she says this is a most fundamental question. I invite Senator Ellis to come with me to Cork to see the conditions in some of our third level institutions and the living conditions endured by students.

I join other speakers in asking the Leader to arrange a debate on the banking fraternity. The culture in our banks has not changed. This morning, Allied Irish Banks gave the two fingers to the people, who bailed it out through the bank guarantee scheme, recapitalisation and NAMA. They have told us it is business as usual and that it does not matter anymore.

Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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The juicier the leak, the higher the source.

Jerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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That is correct. I call on the Minister for Finance to bring in the banks and tell them who is in charge. I heard Senator Boyle on Newstalk at lunchtime. We can have all the pious words and great rhetoric but it is time for the Minister for Finance to act on behalf of the people. We have bailed out the banks but the banks, in particular AIB this morning, showed they do not care about ordinary people or the Minister. The governance in the banks is flawed and it has not changed. The people are frustrated and annoyed and it is time that changed.

John Ellis (Fianna Fail)
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On a point of order, I am delighted Senator Buttimer clarified that there were no students in cars.

Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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That is not a point of order. I will have to circulate to all Members what a point of order is in regard to the Order of Business.

Donie Cassidy (Fianna Fail)
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Senators Cummins, O'Toole, Alex White, Boyle, McFadden, Ross, Coghlan, MacSharry, Bacik, Callely, Donohoe, John Paul Phelan, Regan and Buttimer all expressed views on the appointment of personnel in the banks. No decision has been made yet. I agree with many colleagues on the banks making money available and on the banks and the Government getting together to ensure the flow of credit starts. The biggest concern of most of us in the House is that credit will be made available, especially for small and medium sized enterprises which employ more than 800,000, because of the NAMA legislation on which we worked so long and hard last week. The way everyone who contributed last week conducted their affairs was a credit to them as was the standard of debate.

Senators McFadden and Leyden raised the fact medical card applications for the over 70s are dealt with in Dublin. It was a retrograde step to centralise everything in the capital. We all know of the great service provided in the old health board areas by people who were fully committed. The HSE has much to answer for and I will endeavour to get the Minister to come to the House to address the serious concern of every Senator in regard to the poor service provided which was outlined in the examples cited by Senators McFadden and Leyden.

Senator Cummins, O'Toole, Alex White and Boyle expressed views on the publication of photographs of the union leaders' houses in a Sunday newspaper. This was a serious departure for a Sunday newspaper. We will pass the Senators' strong views to the Minister.

This is legislation week and there are five Bills before the House, namely, the Labour Services (Amendment) Bill 2009, the Defence (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2009, the Foreshore and Dumping at Sea Bill 2009, the Companies (Miscellaneous) Bill 2009 and the Planning and Development (Amendment) Bill 2009. A considerable amount of legislation is before the House for our consideration this week. Unfortunately, I will not be able to arrange statements on anything because legislation must be given priority. As I informed the House last week, on Tuesday, 1 December we will have an all-day open-ended debate on the budget and the financial state of affairs so colleagues may make their views known to the Minister to help the Government with the challenging budget on 9 December.

Senator MacSharry raised cross-Border shopping and reducing VAT. He paid tribute to retailers in the north west and the value for money they are offering to help their businesses survive. All these issues can be raised in the pre-budget debate on 1 December.

Senators O'Toole, Alex White, Boyle, Ormonde, Healy Eames and John Paul Phelan referred to education. Some colleagues congratulated the Minister for Education and Science and the Taoiseach on yesterday's announcement on making laptops available to schools. I join with them in that regard and welcome the investment being made in this area in education.

I agree with some colleagues that broadband signalling is not strong enough in some rural areas and, in some cases, is not available at all. I understand 80% of the population will be able to receive a broadband signal by the end of this year. It is a huge challenge facing the most rural areas.

Paudie Coffey (Fine Gael)
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It is 100% in Northern Ireland.

Donie Cassidy (Fianna Fail)
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As we all know, two or three very remote areas find it very hard to get a television signal. Some 4% will have a difficulty no matter what technology is available.

Joe O'Toole (Independent)
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One cannot get it in north Dublin.

Donie Cassidy (Fianna Fail)
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It is a huge step forward no matter what part of the country one is from or what team one supports in the all-Ireland, whether it is Kerry or Kilkenny.

Senators Mary White, Ó Murchú and Mullen welcomed the publication of the Irish language newspaper. It is great to hear the Irish Independent will distribute it every Wednesday. I fully support the sentiments expressed and thank Senators for bringing it to the attention of the House.

Senator Coghlan is relieved at the lifting of the blockade in Killarney national park. I wish the 900 German delegates attending a conference there well. It is the number one tourism location in the country. We look forward to our holidays in beautiful Killarney every year.

Senator Norris inquired about a gentleman last week who was required to attend the Garda national immigration bureau today to make arrangements for his deportation. Further representations were received and a further submission was made based on these representations to the Minister who will discuss the further representations and submission with his officials tomorrow morning. I hope this updates the position for the Senator.

Senator Bacik called for a debate on prisons and prison sentencing. I have given a commitment that it will take place. Senator Callely raised the issue of local authorities increasing their rates. Rate charges and rate valuations are a serious challenge for the Government. Many businesses are finding it very difficult to keep their doors open. Rates are a serious challenge on the balance sheet. I will pass the Senator's views on to the Minister.

Senator Norris referred to increasing VAT and duty on tobacco in the budget. A debate on the budget will take place on 1 December. He also raised the issue of capital punishment and the views expressed by the eminent retiring judge on putting fear into the law. We all oppose capital punishment but an increase in prison sentencing may be the way forward.

Senator Ó Murchú congratulated Senator Mullen on his great defence of all in public life on television the other evening. I join with him in that regard. He was a terrific example of someone who was there to represent all public representatives honestly and fairly.

Senators Healy Eames and Ellis raised the issue of the proposed one-day strike in regard to which very many people want to do the right thing. I hope the Government and union movement can still explore the issues in talks because this must be done in consultation and negotiation regardless of whether it is done before or after the proposed one-day stoppage. I hope that in the national interest the proposed one-day stoppage will not take place and that everyone involved will get around the table and in the national interest work to the best advantage of Ireland plc. Many people know that €4 billion in savings is required and they want to get on with the job of playing their part on possibly a once-off or a twice-off basis to help the country. We have had a good ten or 12 years of 5% to 7% economic growth and such economic growth was unprecedented elsewhere in the world with the exception of China.

Fidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
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It was artificial.

Donie Cassidy (Fianna Fail)
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Very many people want to play their part. I fully agree with most of the sentiments expressed by colleagues.

Senators Ellis and Buttimer referred to an inquiry regarding the circumstances of students. Senator Buttimer may not have given a satisfactory reply in that respect. I know what that feels like here on occasions.

Jerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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Touché.

Donie Cassidy (Fianna Fail)
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I trust the Senator will do his best in the long term to clarify the position for Senator Ellis.

Senators Hannigan and John Paul Phelan referred to the reopening of the Belfast-Drogheda-Dublin line. I congratulate everyone involved on their endeavours in completing the work on time. It was terrific to see the rail line re-opened yesterday. In regard to the Wexford line, I will pass on the views of the Senator John Paul Phelan to the Minister.

Senators Hannigan and John Paul Phelan also referred to the safety of travelling on Irish roads and pointed out that hundreds of lives have been saved in recent years following the introduction of the new regulations. I congratulate everyone involved, the Minister, Deputy Dempsey, the Minister, Deputy Cullen, who played an important part in implementing random breath testing, and Mr. Gay Byrne and his team——

Alex White (Labour)
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Hear, hear.

Donie Cassidy (Fianna Fail)
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——for all they are doing. Hundreds of lives have been saved on our roads but thousands of people have been saved from serious injury as a result of the various changes introduced ranging from penalty points to random breath testing and speed cameras will also be introduced. All these measures are assisting in making our roads much safer.

Senators Hanafin and Senator John Paul Phelan raised the issue of broadcasting, the broadcast media and broadcasting the affairs of this House. I fully support anything that could happen to make this possible. The broadcasting of our affairs, perhaps the Order of Business, for one hour each week initially would be a step in the right direction. We are endeavouring to examine the possibility of this happening.

All the other matters that were asked of me are in regard to calls for a pre-budget debate. As I said, this will take place on 1 December.

Senator Regan outlined his serious concern regarding the IFSC, in regard to which I very much agree with him. This sector faces a serious challenge. This area of industry, which brings in €1 billion in revenue a year, makes a significant contribution to the Exchequer. It is of the utmost importance for it to maintain its competitiveness. I know that the Government and the Minister for Finance will take this into account in the forthcoming budget.

Senator Mullen outlined to the House the benefit of electronic white boards and the availability of broadband. I have covered this area already. I welcome all the advances that have been made in our schools in the area of technology.