Seanad debates

Wednesday, 29 October 2008

5:00 pm

Photo of Phil PrendergastPhil Prendergast (Labour)
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I move:

Seanad Éireann notes that, in addition to severe cuts in allowances for young persons with disabilities, the recent Budget Statement contains a significant number of measures affecting children with disabilities;

Seanad Éireann further notes that children with disabilities are more prone to hospital visits and therefore are likely to be disproportionately affected by the increase in accident and emergency charges, the increase in hospital bed fees and increases in medical insurance costs;

Seanad Éireann believes that it is essential that children with disabilities have access to mainstream education for as long as possible and that in this regard, class size is an essential ingredient of success for both the teacher and student. Seanad Éireann further believes that the increase in permitted class size from 27 to 28 per teacher will adversely affect every child's education, but most especially those with disabilities;

Seanad Éireann deplores the deferring of implementation of the Education for Persons with Special Needs Act, together with the 1% cut in funding for voluntary disability bodies which comes on top of an already implemented 1% cut to the same organisations by the Health Service Executive; and accordingly Seanad Éireann calls on the Government to reverse these unacceptable cuts forthwith.

I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Moloney, to the House and thank him for coming to listen to the important contribution our party will make to the debate on this motion.

There is a realisation throughout Ireland about what exactly the budget announced recently will mean. Its true effects will not be felt until January and will continue to be felt for quite some time thereafter.

The Labour Party's motion is not about refusing to face up to economic reality; it is about the Government's failure to face the truth about our economy. When there were countless revenue streams that could have been tapped to address the growing budget deficit, the Government instead decided to increase household costs and to slash services. While the external causes of inflation are easing, the budget has caused hyperinflation in the cost of rearing children. There will be increases in health care charges and decreases in allowances and eligibility. Parents are being asked to pay more for less, especially for their children's education. The budget silences one piece of Government rhetoric for the rest of its term — however long that will be, none of us knows. No longer will we hear about going forward because the budget is about going back.

Despite the Government's claim to be fostering a knowledge economy, it has spared no-one when it comes to education. Third level students who were to be the immediate drivers of our economic growth have been targeted through increased costs. Second level pupils, who are due to enter the workforce throughout the next decade, now face bigger classes with fewer resources and the high possibility of being sent home because of loss of substitute teachers. Perhaps the worst affected of all are primary and preschool children. The Government has obviously decided the smaller the person the bigger the target. Those with special needs are the biggest target of all.

One of the many thousands of four year olds to be victimised by this malicious budget is the Education for Persons with Special Needs Act. This Act of 2004 was to give every child with special needs a statutory entitlement to an individual education plan, but the Minster for Education and Science has now decided to scrap it. How will autistic children get the tailored education plan that will help them participate fully in society in the years to come? The Minister for Education and Science will tell us that he will implement the Act sometime, but when it comes to rights for the disadvantaged, the track record of this Government is that it will never be implemented.

I want to pose a question to the Government parties on behalf of those who will be hit hardest by their lack of foresight and fortitude. What have they done to deserve this? Parents, especially those with special needs children, are asking that and other questions. For instance, how will children with Asperger's syndrome get the attention they need at school when class sizes are to increase and their hours with special needs assistants are to be cut? Why are these children being targeted when what they need most is a teacher's patience? That finding is research-based. How can teachers give that extra help with the added pressures they are soon to face, bearing in mind that they are already under pressure? What about the requirements of preschool children with special needs and those from disadvantaged backgrounds? I know many of those, as I am sure does everybody else. What are they to do now that the Centre for Early Childhood Development and Education has been abolished? That centre did great work, especially in my constituency and it is well recognised that the developing models for helping children with special educational needs were excellent. What did these tots do to deserve having their chance of a fulfilling life being put at risk? Parents are asking what they have done to deserve this.

My inbox is full, as I am sure are those of other Members, of angry e-mails from parents explaining the effects of these cuts at the coalface. One in particular I received is from an adult who had unrecognised learning difficulties in childhood. Tellingly, she wrote that her problems started in infancy. I received another e-mail from a parent who moved her dyslexic son to a school that provided special reading classes and his reading improved greatly after a year at that school. She is now seriously concerned that his achievements will fall back. It looks like his chance may have been stolen from him, which is a great pity.

Is it any wonder the Government abolished the educational disadvantage committee that advised it to reduce class sizes? The Government has admitted in the budget that it is not being fair to children because it has abolished the giving children an even break programme. The budget has filleted the programme for Government published only a year ago. It promised 350 extra language support teachers and instead schools will lose some of those teachers. Immigrants who have contributed to our economy through their taxes and all that goes with it will have to watch on in despair as their children struggle in oversized classes to even understand, much less keep up.

I received correspondence from a teacher advising me her school will lose three English support teachers, leaving just two to cater for the needs of almost 100 children for whom English is not their first language. What have the parents of those 100 children done to deserve this? These parents are not the ones who did not know how to do their job and therefore appointed giant unaccountable bureaucracies to do it for them. They do not have the luxury of passing on responsibility, but soon they will have the expense. These mothers, fathers and guardians, who built their lives around their children, are paying for the irresponsibility of those who built their lives around their bank balance.

That is what the budget is really about — defending the privileged at the expense of the vulnerable. The Government criticises those who want these cuts reversed. It believes our economic interest is served by creating disadvantage and worsening our educational system. Labour disagrees. We say that investment in a good and inclusive education system is a down payment on our future economic success. While the Green Party used to agree with us, it no longer does or at least its leadership does not. These cuts will create higher drop-out rates, increase disadvantage and damage our competitiveness. However, this coalition thinks the same short-term thinking that got us into this mess will get us out of it. When it comes to the economy, it is the Government that needs an education.

I have just read with interest the Government amendment. I note the Government is congratulating itself and commends the significant increase in the number of therapy professionals employed by the HSE in recent years in areas such as speech, language and occupational therapies, physiotherapy, and psychology who deliver services to those in need. In the boom times I had the most horrendous job to get a special needs assistant for a child with juvenile diabetes. He was an insulin-dependent diabetic requiring very careful monitoring of his blood-sugar levels three times a day. As he did not have a special needs educational assistant his mother needed to attend the school to administer his insulin after testing his blood-sugar level. That mother subsequently became pregnant and because of her obstetric history her delivery was required to be by caesarean section, which invalidated her to be covered by insurance subsequent to the delivery and therefore she could not drive. It went down to the wire of the week in which she was due to deliver before we finally achieved it. That was in the good times. I cannot understand the Government commending itself on the significant increase in the number of therapy professionals. I have requested parliamentary questions to be tabled regarding other cases, the nature of which might identify people. Therefore I must acknowledge that people have a right to privacy.

I know the Minister of State, Deputy Moloney, is a caring man from my experience of him as Chairman of the Joint Committee on Health and Children. I know he has compassion. The cutbacks will hurt people greatly. When this debate is over the parents of children with disabilities, who will be further disadvantaged and shoehorned because of the cuts that are coming down the line, will still go home and need to deal with their disabled children. They will still need to put those children to bed and get them up at night to be taken to the toilet or given assistance in all the things we as able-bodied people take for granted. These people cannot speak for themselves. We need to reconsider what we are doing and I call for support for the Labour Party motion this evening.

Photo of Alan KellyAlan Kelly (Labour)
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I welcome the Minister of State to the House. I hope he does not have as difficult a week this week as he has had in the past two weeks. However, from the telephone calls I have been receiving I somehow doubt it. This is a very important motion and the Labour Party is proud to bring it before the House. I am very proud to second it. The motion is about protecting the most vulnerable in society, our children and particularly those children who, unfortunately, have various forms of disabilities.

The budget was a sign of things to come. While the families of these children are facing into a very difficult Christmas, with the modus operandi of the Government and the manner in which it is targeting vulnerable people, my concern is that things will get worse. I can only laugh at the Government's amendment to the motion. I can only laugh at its commitments and the way it is back-slapping itself over what it has given in recent years. However, I will return to that point.

I will go through the various elements of the budget later. I must ask why the Government picked on the most vulnerable. Why did it not consider other forms of revenue that could have been generated through, for example, mortgage interest relief? It should have considered the multiple tax breaks, private hospitals and various other possible sources of revenue that surely would have been more appropriate than the areas we will itemise today. Households are being left to pay more for fewer services with the distinct likelihood in many families that less income will be coming in in the first place. I do not believe Fianna Fáil understands this. If it did, this shambles of a budget with its 30 cuts would not have been introduced. Given the manner in which it has done that, it is clear it has fallen completely out of touch with real people's needs.

These families will need to pay more for education. I have spoken to teachers, members of boards of management and parents who cannot understand the Government's decisions in this area. It is beyond belief that the Government has targeted these children. In its election manifesto it promised to reduce class sizes from 30:1 in 2002 to 24:1 in 2007. It has now increased class sizes to 28:1. I am sure we will see how people feel about that matter later tonight. We now have the highest class sizes in the EU, which shows the Government is willing to make children and their teachers suffer for its complete mismanagement of the economy in recent years.

Teachers are very upset about this development, which I fully understand. Teaching is a vocation. These teachers are dedicated to their children. They have relationships with them and build trust with them. In particular those looking after children with special needs do not just feel they are losing their jobs, but through no fault of their own they are letting down those children. It is not their fault. It is the Government's fault. It is certainly not the fault of the teachers who are very dedicated to their jobs. We in the Labour Party totally abhor these cuts and as Senators will find out tonight we intend to fight them to the end. The increase in school transport costs was a cynical ploy that slipped in under the radar. However, as it will affect families with multiple children the cost is coming increasingly to attention.

Children are also affected by the increases in health care costs at all levels. Obviously children use health care to a greater degree than other members of society. Families will experience cuts in tax relief for medical expenses. Children go to hospital disproportionately to others. There are increases in accident and emergency unit charges, long-stay charges, hospital bed fees, medical insurance costs etc. There is one caveat on which I would like some analysis by the Minister of State. How will the increase in accident and emergency unit charges affect the co-operative medical practices we encourage people to attend rather than clog up accident and emergency departments? Has evidence been provided to the Government that the charges applied by these co-operatives could increase in parallel with the increase in accident and emergency department charges? I worry about this. These families are also being targeted through the social welfare system with child benefit being scrapped for children aged over 18 and the early child care supplement scrapped when children reach 5.5 years.

The Government has targeted children with disabilities. Members of my family and I have worked with children with disabilities for a long time and I am passionate about this issue because I abhor what the Government has done. Children with disabilities should have access to mainstream education for as long as possible and it should be a fundamental right. They should be kept within the education system for as long as possible in order that they are included as much as possible in society. Why are they being targeted by reducing the budget for resource teaching? It is beyond my comprehension.

The increase in class sizes will disproportionately affect children with disabilities. I have been approached by schools in my area over the past few weeks. They are begging parents to keep their children in the schools in order that they can retain resource teachers who contribute so much. It is scary that in 2008 we have reached this point. Children with disabilities need more, not less, empowerment and they need to be given an opportunity in life. I deplore the deferral of the EPSEN Act. Children need the plans provided for under it at all costs. Every child requires a customised education plan and the failure to implement this provision must be reversed. While the Minister for Education and Science has not stated he will defer the Act, the reality is he has not indicated a date for its implementation. He might come back to the House on that. The Government needs to state it will honour the implementation of the Act. Children with disabilities will not acquire the customised education plans nor will they be allowed to participate fully in society unless the Government changes its mind.

I also deplore the 1% reduction in funding for voluntary disability bodies. In addition to inflation and the 1% reduction in HSE funding, this will have a drastic impact on them. Furthermore, I deplore the abolition of the Centre for Early Childhood Development and Education. Will the Minister of State outline in detail how the centre's work will be subsumed, which body will take over and how efficient it will be?

Most of all, I deplore the changes the Government proposes regarding the allowances for children with disabilities aged between 16 and 18. This was sneaked in in the budget and it is only receiving the exposure it deserves now. I recently attended a meeting of North Tipperary Community and Voluntary Association, CAVA, an excellent organisation in my constituency, which also has a disability forum. I outlined the changes proposed in the budget and this change hit home the most. Children aged between 16 and 18 whose disabilities restrict them from working are currently paid a weekly allowance of €197, which was increased in the budget to €204 per week for those over 18. However, the budget raised the age for receipt of the allowance from 16 to 18. In the meantime, the age limit for the domiciliary care allowance, worth €299 a month, which is paid to families of children with disabilities has been raised to 18. This masks the reality of a significant negative change in the income of these families annually of almost €7,000. How is a family meant to survive? Families used this money to bypass the two-year waiting lists for speech and language therapy, occupational therapy and so on and that is why the amendment to the motion is laughable. There is a two-year waiting list in north Tipperary and half the speech and language posts are vacant. It is laughable that the Government could table this amendment.

I am delighted to second the motion and I ask all Members to support it to protect those who are most vulnerable in our society, in particular, children with disabilities.

Photo of Brian Ó DomhnaillBrian Ó Domhnaill (Fianna Fail)
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I move amendment No. 1:

To delete all words after "Seanad Éireann" and substitute the following:

"—recognises that the Government has very tangibly demonstrated its commitment to people with a disability, and that people with a disability continue to be a priority for this Government;

notes the greatly increased funding base for disability services that has been built up over recent years, particularly the additional €425 million in respect of disability services allocated to the HSE since 2006;

recognises that the Government has devised and implemented effective structures for the co-ordination and integration of services for people with disabilities, in particular the establishment of the Office for Disability and Mental Health, headed by a Minister of State, and of a Cross-Sectoral Team, under the aegis of that office, to co-ordinate activities and services across relevant Departments and agencies;

commends the significant increase in the number of therapy professionals employed by the HSE in recent years in areas such as Speech and Language and Occupational Therapies, Physiotherapy and Psychology, who deliver services to those most in need;

welcomes the commencement of the Disability Act 2005 for children under 5, and the introduction for these children of the right to an independent assessment of the health and educational needs arising from their disability, in recognition of the fact that intervention early in life can have a significant impact on the disabling effects of a condition or impairment;

welcomes the Government's continued commitment to children with disabilities in Budget 2009, through the provision of an additional €20 million for the further enhancement of health and educational services;

commends the announcement that the Government will deliver additional therapy professionals targeted at children of school-going age in 2009, totalling some 125 posts in all service areas including Speech and Language Therapy, Occupational Therapy, Physiotherapy, Psychology, Clinical Psychology and Social Work for new and existing multidisciplinary teams;

recognises, in the context of the current difficult scenario for the public finances, that it is imperative to target provision in the most efficient and effective manner possible to ensure that available resources have optimal impact on the services and supports that are available to those who need them;

acknowledges major improvements that have been made in special education in recent years, underpinned by a doubling of investment since 2004 to €900 million this year and the provision of approximately 19,000 Teachers and Special Needs Assistants to work solely with children with special needs;

appreciates that in any area of historic under-provision it takes time to bring services up to the optimum level and supports the Government's determination, in a difficult budgetary environment, to prioritise investment for children with special educational needs by:

ensuring that teaching and care supports are available to children with special needs so that they can continue to access an education that is appropriate to their needs;

expanding the National Educational Psychological Service to provide support to every school in the country;

enhancing the capacity of the National Council for Special Education to co-ordinate the provision of services to children with special educational needs;

funding the provision of expert support, professional development and training opportunities in special education for principals, class and subject teachers, special class teachers, learning support and resource teachers and special needs assistants.".

I am delighted to contribute to the debate on this issue, which concerns us all. We are public representatives with an obligation to listen to the views of the public and to represent them. Education of people with disabilities is an issue close to all our hearts. I will outline the work done in recent years, which cannot go unnoticed.

Photo of Joe O'TooleJoe O'Toole (Independent)
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The Senator should concentrate on the budget and not give us a history lesson.

Photo of Brian Ó DomhnaillBrian Ó Domhnaill (Fianna Fail)
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I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Moloney, who has responsibility for the office for disability and mental health and who exercises additional responsibilities in the Departments of Health and Children, Education and Science, Enterprise, Trade and Employment and Justice, Equality and Law Reform. I acknowledge the work he has done since he took up office. He has been to the fore in addressing the needs of persons with disabilities at Government level. The new office for disability and mental health brings together responsibility for a range of different policy areas and State services, which directly impact on the lives of people with a disability and people with mental health issues. The office aims to bring about improvements in the manner in which services respond to the needs of people with disabilities and mental health issues, by working to develop person-centred services, focusing on the holistic needs of clients and service users and involving them in their own care. Substantial progress has been made in recent years in the areas of disability and mental health but much remains to be done. In particular, there is a need to improve co-ordination and communication across different Departments and agencies in the delivery of services to this client group. This will be the main focus of the Minister of State, which he has articulated well recently.

The national disability strategy, launched in September 2004, supports and reinforces equal participation in society of people with disabilities. The strategy contains a suite of elements, principally the Disability Act 2005, the EPSEN Act 2004——

Photo of Joe O'TooleJoe O'Toole (Independent)
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That has not commenced because the Government has ignored it. We are being misled.

Photo of Pat MoylanPat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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Senator Ó Domhnaill, without interruption.

Photo of Brian Ó DomhnaillBrian Ó Domhnaill (Fianna Fail)
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I am entitled to make a contribution and I would like the opportunity to do so.

Photo of Joe O'TooleJoe O'Toole (Independent)
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The Senator should stick to the facts.

Photo of Brian Ó DomhnaillBrian Ó Domhnaill (Fianna Fail)
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I do not interrupt Members very often.

Photo of Joe O'TooleJoe O'Toole (Independent)
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I am quite happy to be interrupted when I get something wrong.

6:00 pm

Photo of Brian Ó DomhnaillBrian Ó Domhnaill (Fianna Fail)
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The strategy also provides for sectoral plans prepared by six Departments during 2006, the Citizens Information Act 2007 and a multiannual disability support investment programme worth €900 million between 2006 and 2009.

The Disability Act 2005 is one of the central elements of the national disability strategy, which sets out a range of statutory entitlements designed to underscore disabled people's engagement with everyday life. The emphasis is on mainstreaming as much as is practicable. Part 2 of the legislation makes provision for the introduction of specific obligations on the health services. Primary among these are a statutory entitlement to an independent assessment of health and education needs under section 8, a statement of services under section 11, an independent redress and complaints mechanism under section 14 if required and the opportunity to make an appeal to the independent disability appeals officer under section 18.

In case Senator O'Toole believes that I have forgotten, I will discuss budget 2009. The Government reiterated its commitment to people with disabilities by allocating an additional €20 million in the recent budget for health and education services for children with special educational needs. I acknowledge the input of the Minister of State, Deputy Moloney, in this respect. Some €10 million of the allocation will be given to the HSE and €10 million to the Department of Education and Science to enable the services provided for children with special educational needs to be enhanced and strengthened. The €10 million allocated to the HSE will provide for 125 additional therapy posts in the disability and mental health services, targeted at children of school-going age.

An additional 90 posts will be provided in the disability services area to include speech and language therapists, occupational therapists, physiotherapists and psychologists for children's disability services. There will be 35 additional posts for child and adolescent mental health services, including clinical psychologists, occupational therapists, speech and language therapists and social workers for new and existing multi-disciplinary teams.

Education is central to every child's opportunities in life and beyond. While some may not acknowledge it, an additional allocation in the education budget will bring the overall funding to €9.6 billion, an increase of more than 300% since 1997. This represents an additional €302 million on 2008 figures, a 3.2% increase. When the Higher Education Authority visited the Houses last week, it acknowledged and welcomed the substantial investment of €581 million in the school capital programme. We are all fighting for those in our constituencies.

Photo of Fidelma Healy EamesFidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
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That does little good for pupil-teacher contact times.

Photo of Pat MoylanPat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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Senator Ó Domhnaill, without interruption.

Photo of Brian Ó DomhnaillBrian Ó Domhnaill (Fianna Fail)
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I wish to make a number of points on the provisions for special educational needs. Some 19,000 people in our schools are working solely with children with special needs and there are 10,000 special needs assistants compared with 300 in 1997. There are——

Photo of Fidelma Healy EamesFidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
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Different populations in different times.

Photo of Brian Ó DomhnaillBrian Ó Domhnaill (Fianna Fail)
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These are the figures from when the Senator's party was in power.

Photo of Fidelma Healy EamesFidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
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It was ten years ago.

Photo of Brian Ó DomhnaillBrian Ó Domhnaill (Fianna Fail)
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I was not here in those days, although I went to school close to that time and I remember the difference.

Photo of Fidelma Healy EamesFidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
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How many foreign national pupils were there then?

Photo of Brian Ó DomhnaillBrian Ó Domhnaill (Fianna Fail)
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There are 7,800 resource and learning support teachers compared with approximately 2,000 in 1998, an almost 300% increase in the number of teachers in mainstream schools supporting children with special educational needs. Some 1,100 other teachers are in our special schools supporting children while hundreds more work in special classes. How much time remains?

Photo of Pat MoylanPat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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Senator Ó Domhnaill's time has concluded.

Photo of Joe O'TooleJoe O'Toole (Independent)
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We have heard enough from him.

Photo of Brian Ó DomhnaillBrian Ó Domhnaill (Fianna Fail)
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The full implementation of the Education for Persons with Special Educational Needs Act 2004 is being deferred.

Photo of Joe O'TooleJoe O'Toole (Independent)
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It is not. The first section has not even been commenced.

Photo of Pat MoylanPat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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Other Members will have an opportunity to contribute.

Photo of Brian Ó DomhnaillBrian Ó Domhnaill (Fianna Fail)
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It is being deferred. Many sections of the Act have commenced, including those——

Photo of Joe O'TooleJoe O'Toole (Independent)
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I will tell the Senator about them in a few minutes.

Photo of Brian Ó DomhnaillBrian Ó Domhnaill (Fianna Fail)
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——promoting an inclusive approach to the education of children with special needs and those establishing the National Council for Special Education.

Photo of Fidelma Healy EamesFidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
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The reality is different.

Photo of Joe O'TooleJoe O'Toole (Independent)
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The council has no power. The Government does not listen to it.

Photo of Pat MoylanPat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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There should be no interruptions, please. I will ask Members to leave the House if they continue to interrupt. There must be law and order in the House. That is the end of the story. I will not put up with interruptions from anyone. Senator Ó Domhnaill's time has concluded.

Photo of Brian Ó DomhnaillBrian Ó Domhnaill (Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Cathaoirleach and apologise, but I wish to make one point. Resource teachers and special needs assistants will continue to be deployed to meet the needs of children with special educational needs at primary and post-primary levels. Children will continue to receive an education appropriate to their needs and it is important to point out that there are no changes to current policy in that regard.

Photo of Fidelma Healy EamesFidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
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I thank the Minister of State for attending the House. He is the fall guy for the Government, having been rolled out to deal with the medical cards and now he appears here. For the past two weeks, I have requested that the Minister for Education and Science address this issue in the House. It is appalling that he has taken time from pupil-teacher contacts by increasing class sizes.

I am proud of the Labour Party for tabling this Private Members' motion and I will gladly support it. I will focus on the lack of appropriate classroom therapists to support children's education needs, the failure to implement the Education for Persons with Special Educational Needs Act and the effect of class size increases. I will do my best in the time allotted to me.

Having listened to the Senator across the floor, he is out of touch with reality in the classroom. He is able to commend the Government on everything it claims it is doing, but the reality is different. The Green Party must be decried for its hypocrisy. I am a member of the Joint Committee on Education and Science alongside Deputy Gogarty. Prior to the last general election, I read the Green Party's manifesto, which referred to reducing class sizes. We will see how the Green Party Members vote in this House and the Lower House and whether they will put their money where their mouths are.

There are major failings and collapses in the education of children with special educational needs due to the unavailability of speech therapists, occupational therapists and psychologists to work with teachers and children in schools. Therapists are supposed to be supplied by the local HSE children's team. Before I give Fianna Fáil my practical examples, I welcome the teachers from Galway city in the Gallery.

Photo of Pat MoylanPat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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That is not in order.

Photo of Fidelma Healy EamesFidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
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I apologise, but they are welcome.

Photo of Pat MoylanPat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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I ask the Senator to obey the rules of the House, please. If she continues like that, I will call the next speaker.

Photo of Fidelma Healy EamesFidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
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To meet the occupational therapy needs of children at Claddagh national school, it must privately hire and fundraise for a therapist at the rate of €625 per day. Given that autistic children have severe communication and behavioural needs, the situation is criminal. Senator O'Toole is shouting from the back row for this crucial reason. Both he and I know that until the Education for Persons with Special Educational Needs Act is implemented, children's needs will not be met by law. I would not be surprised were their parents and teachers to bring lawsuits against the Government and the State, which includes the Cathaoirleach, me and every taxpayer.

We are facing a significant problem. The Minister of State, who I know from his time on the Joint Committee on Health and Children, has a heart. The problem lies with the fact that the HSE is the provider of therapy services for schools. The services should be provided through the Department of Education and Science in the school setting. This decision must be made and resources should follow the child by right. Where a child has speech therapy services, for example, critical school time is lost in transporting him or her back and forth.

Photo of Joe O'ReillyJoe O'Reilly (Fine Gael)
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Hear, hear.

Photo of Fidelma Healy EamesFidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
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I have experienced this problem. My child is undergoing speech therapy. Since she must travel 12 miles, she loses half of a school day going there and coming back. We are delighted to have the therapy because without it, she would not learn. Her speech issue blocks learning. She is on par as a result of receiving the service, but she is one of the lucky ones. Many children, perhaps with autism, do not have speech therapy services. Those services should be provided in a school setting.

The non-implementation of the Education for Persons with Special Educational Needs Act is a failure. In the past week, a Galway city school told me that it received a letter stating that its pupils with special educational needs will have their needs met on a non-statutory basis. That is a joke. It means that there will be no service because the SENO, which has become known as the "Say No", can say that resources do not allow for it. The Government is leaving the taxpayer and the State open to lawsuits.

The management bodies contacted me to tell me that the announcement of the Act's deferral indicates the Government's disregard towards special education. The importance of the integration of the legislation with that of the Disability Act appears to have been ignored. Schools will be left without the protection of this legislation when children present with needs defined under the Disability Act. It is regrettable that the first response of the Government in a financial crisis is to deny the rights of yet another vulnerable group.

I am pleased Senator Boyle is in the Chamber because his vote will be critical on this issue. We will soon see whether the Green Party will adhere to its commitment to a reduction in class sizes. I agree with the Labour Party motion that class size is an essential ingredient for both teachers and students. Moves to increase class sizes by Fianna Fáil, the Green Party and the Progressive Democrats are intensely damaging to all our children and to our nation's future. They are particularly damaging to children with disabilities. While there is some provision for dedicated classes, the majority of children with disabilities spend most of their time in mainstream classes with inadequate add-on learning support and resource classes.

I heard the Minister for Education and Science, Deputy Batt O'Keeffe, speaking on "Drivetime" yesterday about the gains made in education in the past ten years. His figures are highly suspect because he did not acknowledge growth in population and the decline in education investment as a percentage of gross domestic product. However, even taking the Minister on good faith, the gains made in the past ten years do not help today's children. Each child's education is and must be a personal experience for him or her, leading to his or her personal and educational growth, not one based on how others did in previous years. The record of the past two Government terms is nothing to write home about. Some 18% to 20% of children drop out before the leaving certificate, indicating significant underachievement at second level. In 2000, 10% of children left primary school unable to read. In 2008, 5,000 students failed ordinary level maths in the leaving certificate. Our levels of proficiency in maths and science are below average on the PISA scales. Increasing the pupil-teacher ratio from 27 to 28 is merely the thin end of the wedge.

One of the most awful cutbacks in this budget is the cap on the number of English language support teachers at two per school. Representatives of Mervue national school, in which 183 foreign national children are enrolled, are in the Gallery today. Also in the Gallery are representatives of Claddagh national school which has 125 foreign national students. When it comes to the standardised test results next spring, foreign national children will come in at the bottom of the ladder, pushing native Irish children out of learning support. This will amount to an incitement to hatred. With resources being denied to children with special education needs, foreign nationals will be blamed.

Photo of Dan BoyleDan Boyle (Green Party)
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The role of an Opposition in a democracy is essential. It holds the Government to account and challenges the efficacies of how policies are made and implemented. When successful, it can show that such policies are rushed or even plain wrong. When it is truly successful, it can show that those who are making those policies are incompetent and offer an alternative to voters in terms of how another Government may be put in place. There has been enough evidence in recent weeks to suggest an underperformance in some areas, thus affording the Opposition an opportunity to do its job effectively.

Photo of Fidelma Healy EamesFidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
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Wow, thank you.

Photo of Dan BoyleDan Boyle (Green Party)
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However, the Opposition also has a responsibility to make those challenges without stirring up unnecessary concerns among those most in need of protection.

Photo of Fidelma Healy EamesFidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
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Everything I said is coming from teachers and principals.

Photo of Nicky McFaddenNicky McFadden (Fine Gael)
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The Green Party was supposed to be the watchdog in government.

Photo of Pat MoylanPat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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If there are continued interruptions I will be obliged either to adjourn the House or to ask the Senators concerned to leave. They were not interrupted when they were speaking and they should extend the same respect to Senator Boyle.

Photo of Dan BoyleDan Boyle (Green Party)
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I have become accustomed to a lack of respect in recent days. As I said, the Opposition has a responsibility to ensure those arguments are made without stoking unnecessary fears among the most vulnerable and to do so in a way that is proportionate and reflective of the context.

There is no doubt that we do not spend enough on education. There is no doubt that the decisions made in the recent budget will diminish the quality of that education.

Photo of Fidelma Healy EamesFidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
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Absolutely.

Photo of Dan BoyleDan Boyle (Green Party)
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What we must decide, in government in the first instance, is how that impact can be lessened and how we can get back, initially, to where we are now, before this decision was made, and how we can surpass it in terms of improving the quality of education. That will not be done on the basis of any Private Members' motion in this or the other House. However, I am confident that a debate will be ongoing in terms of how decisions of this type are made and the effect of such decisions.

Photo of Joe O'TooleJoe O'Toole (Independent)
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Will the Government reverse these proposals?

Photo of Dan BoyleDan Boyle (Green Party)
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I am putting the issues into context. It will certainly not happen tonight, as the Senator is aware.

I do not want to go back too far into history, but I am conscious that when the Opposition presents arguments in this way, it completely revises history. One of my first experiences as an elected public representative, when I was a city councillor, was my encounter with a woman whose situation was not helped by the policies of the then Government, nor has it been helped since. The woman's name was Marie O'Donoghue. Her son, Paul, was the mover of a seminal court case relating to the educational rights of people with disabilities in this State. It went to the highest court in the land and was opposed every inch of the way by a Labour Party Minister for Education and Science.

The experience of people with disabilities and special educational needs is something that shames all of us in the political system. It is an area in which we continually make mistakes. I am aware of the irony that given the budgetary context and the decisions that are made, I, as a Government Member, cannot change the situation that Marie O'Donoghue and her son now feel themselves to be in. This case was so seminal that it led to the subsequent Sinnott case which was taken to the Supreme Court in 2001.

Photo of Fidelma Healy EamesFidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
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Senator Boyle and his party can offer leadership on this issue. There is a wonderful opportunity to do so.

Photo of Pat MoylanPat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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Senator Boyle should be allowed to continue without interruption, as Senator Healy Eames was allowed to do.

Photo of Dan BoyleDan Boyle (Green Party)
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The argument I am making is that we must talk about issues such as the educational rights of people with a disability in the context of ensuring we all share that responsibility. It is an issue beyond naked party political point-scoring. In moving this motion, I would have expected from the Opposition not merely criticism of the Government but also some type of critique which set forth how this can be done differently and better.

Photo of Fidelma Healy EamesFidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
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We are offering that. Senator Boyle should listen to us.

Photo of Dan BoyleDan Boyle (Green Party)
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I expected the Opposition parties to outline how they addressed these issues when they were in government and how they propose to deal with them in future if they return to government. I heard no acknowledgement of responsibility for previous actions. I heard no vision for future Government participation.

On that level, motions of this type are entirely bogus because they do nothing to assist the people who are affected by Government decisions, as they have been and are now, or to show how we should aim to change them. If there is sincerity in what is being sought in this Private Members' motion, we should hear much more about why we have arrived at this stage and the decisions that need to be made in the budgetary context, in a situation where we as a country are spending €37 million of borrowed money every day. What choices would the Opposition parties make if they were in government? Would they reduce the amount of money being spent by curbing public expenditure in various ways? Would they raise taxation in various ways? A refusal to answer these questions is to play politics with the daily lives of the people they claim to represent in this motion. This is dishonest politics. It is unreasonable politics. It is politics without a heart or soul or any sense of real leadership. If we are to move forward democratically in these economically challenging times, we need a better sense of politics.

Photo of Joe O'TooleJoe O'Toole (Independent)
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I will not mind being interrupted if I mislead the House at any stage. I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Moloney. It is regrettable that he is being put into the bearna bhaoil. We have heard much that is incorrect. Níl mé ag cur i gcoinne an méid atá ráite ag an Seanadóir Ó Domhnaill. Caithfidh mé scéal amháin a insint. Nach mór bliain ó shin, bhí orm féin agus an iar-Aire Stáit, an Teachta Gallagher, dul go dtí an NCSE agus an Aire ag iarraidh go gcuirfí EPSEN ar fáil do cúpla leanbh i gceartlár dáilcheantar an Seanadóra. The Minister of State can check out that story. I will tell him just how cynical is the information he has given to the House. I do not blame him for this situation as he was only providing us the information given to him. Prior to the Minister of State taking up his new portfolio, he and I discussed special educational needs on many occasions down through the years.

The Minister of State spoke about an appeals process that was put in place. I will give just one example of how cynical this is as I do not have much time available. The Education for People with Special Educational Needs, EPSEN, Act requires that children be first assessed by an education psychologist. The system of assessment must follow a process, a pro forma and deal with items Nos, 1 to 10. The committee must be established to determine this system. This is the first stop and it has not yet been done. The system is put in place and an assessment is arranged with an education psychologist. The appeals process mentioned by the Minister of State is an appeal in respect of the psychologist's report, which report cannot be written. This is how cynical the previous Minister was in regard to this measure. I have spoken about this matter time and again in this House. However, I do not expect people to remember that. I could say a great deal on this matter, which is disgraceful.

Despite what the previous speaker said — I do not consider myself as the Opposition; I am an Independent — I visited schools in Navan, Monaghan, Cork, Clonmel and other places to explain to teachers all that is good about the EPSEN Act. I believed, and still believe, it is a superb proposal. It is the Act I would write myself if I got the chance. However, as Senator Prendergast said, the Act remains on a shelf and its implementation is being further deferred, which is disgraceful. I do not have time to speak further on that issue.

In terms of what is going on and in response to Senator Dan Boyle's question in regard to what the Opposition would do — the Minister of State can quote me on this to Government — I could sit down on my own, or with John Carr beside me, with the Minister for Education and Science and his officials and in half an hour give them all the cuts they want within the education budget as it stands in a budget-neutral way that would not affect class size, substitution cover or the high profile issues that will destroy schools i gceartlár dáilcheantar an Seanadóra. Bhí mé ag éisteacht inné le ionadaí as eagras na scoileanna Gaeltachta. Ba chóir don Seanadóir dul ag caint leo. They are appalled at how this proposal will affect small gaeltacht schools.

The Minister for Education and Science, Deputy Batt O'Keeffe, having devastated the primary education system with a budget on which there was no consultation and having then left for China, stated we will approach this issue in partnership. Despite what Senator Boyle said, the education partners and Fine Gael — though I did not agree with its proposals — came up with various proposals and when they requested a meeting with the Minister to discuss them he said he could not meet with them until the end of the week following the debate on the matter in the Dáil. Yesterday, he spoke about the matter in NUI Cork and on radio. He stated on "Prime Time" last night that there will be no change, that he is sticking with what was decided and that the Government will not reverse the proposals. Ní bheidh aon chúlú ón méid atá molta agam ag an bpointe seo. The Minister will discuss the issue but will not make any change. What type of consultation is that? What confidence does this inspire in the schools around the country that are being devastated?

I will give another example. I hope my colleagues on the opposite side will listen to me and, if I say one thing that is wrong, interrupt me immediately as I would not want to mislead the House. The statement that there will be 200 fewer teachers next year is a fallacy and misleading information. There are a number of teachers in the current system. The plan is to have 200 fewer in the system next year. The increase in natural population enrolling in schools next year will require 800 extra teachers. The difference between the number of teachers that would be in the system after next September as opposed to what will be in the system if the Government forces through these cuts is 1,000. If I am wrong, I will sit down immediately. I look forward to being corrected by any Member on the opposite side. This is the kind of misleading information we are being given.

Senator Boyle left the House because he knows my views on these issues. I am too long at this game. The Minister of State should remember that education is my constituency. I am in this for the long haul and I will not put on the record comments over which I cannot stand. What I say is absolutely correct. It is not good to hear the Minister for Education and Science say teachers must take the medicine; of course, they will. The really difficult thing to accept is that there is nothing in this for teachers. This is not about salaries, posts or promotion, it is about their children, pupils, schools and their communities.

It is my responsibility to haunt every Member of the Government parties about the manner in which they are wrecking, undermining and destroying primary education by way of these measures. It is our responsibility to tell this story in our clinics, in the other House and in county councils throughout the country. This will not go away. What is happening outside the House tonight is not similar to what happened last week. The protest outside the House tonight is only the beginning of a long campaign which will continue. We have been through this many times. I will stand with the teachers, schools and boards of management.

A message needs to go back to the Minister for Education and Science, Deputy Batt O'Keeffe, following his statement last night that this is a teachers' issue. I wish he had been in Buswells Hotel yesterday to see the full line up of all interests in primary education including gaelscoileanna, multi-denominational education, Church of Ireland management, Catholic school management, the INTO and various other groups. Bhí na heagrasaí Gaeltachta, gaelscolaíochta agus pátrúnachta ann. Bhí siad go léir ann. They all had the same message for Government: "You cannot do this to primary education."

This is not about increasing class sizes by one pupil. Schools must retain their numbers for a full year before they are entitled to extra teachers. In other words, a school with three or four teachers may well have to have classes increased by nine or ten pupils in order to get an extra teacher the following September. What is happening is crazy. I am only touching on issues. In terms of partnership and commitment, this measure is taking us backwards and I will tell the Minister of State why. He can give us a history lesson — I have no doubt he has a prepared script — on all that has happened since 1977. The reality is that returning us to the situation which prevailed in 2007 is not like going back one year. That might be the case in other European countries but it is returning us to the dark ages because we have been so far behind.

These are not my figures, my comparison or my views. This is what is written in Education at a Glance , the yearly statistics from the European Union in respect of the percentage of GNP we put into education. This is the only figure that counts in terms of comparing like with like. We were way behind and are going backwards again.

Photo of Pat MoylanPat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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Senator O'Toole must conclude.

Photo of Joe O'TooleJoe O'Toole (Independent)
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I will finish on this point and, I apologise for being a little disorderly earlier. The first principle of economics is that a country needs a well educated healthy population. It cannot go anywhere without it. The Minister for Education and Science, Deputy Batt O'Keeffe, told us that out of large classes came the Celtic tiger, implying that with further large classes we might again see the Celtic tiger. We might even sort out global warming and many other issues as a result of large classes.

Photo of Pat MoylanPat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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The Senator's time has expired.

Photo of Joe O'TooleJoe O'Toole (Independent)
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That is "Battonomics", a new economic textbook from the Minister for Education and Science who should wise up. "Batt man" needs a little bit of talk in his ear from Robin.

Photo of David NorrisDavid Norris (Independent)
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Bravo, Senator O'Toole.

Photo of Pat MoylanPat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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Does the Minister of State wish to come in at this stage?

Photo of John MoloneyJohn Moloney (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I would prefer to listen for a few more minutes.

Photo of Mark DalyMark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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I would concede the floor to the Minister any day. I have, as always, the greatest respect for my learned colleague from Kerry. He has often supported me on issues from Valentia to Kenmare, Killarney and beyond. I expect nothing less than to hear him speak with great passion when it comes to education issues.

I have no doubt we will hear more on this issue from the trade union organised campaigns on our streets.

Photo of Joe O'TooleJoe O'Toole (Independent)
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Starting now.

Photo of Mark DalyMark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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Senator O'Toole will no doubt take up his placard and head out the door.

Many of the principals with whom I have met spoke of intransigence. They speak of unions and teachers who get paid a weekly allowance for substitution, whether they do it or not, which is pensionable. As the issue has arisen it has become of great interest to me and, no doubt, to the taxpayer.

I have been told by principals throughout the country that some unions have instructed their members, who are being requested to do substitution, not to carry out the work. This is despite their being paid by the taxpayer to do it. The instructions to principals are that a substitute force should be sought before teachers do the substitution.

The motion from the Labour Party is wide-ranging in the education field and Senator O'Toole seems to have deviated slightly because it specifically mentions special needs. The education of people with special needs is most affected. Senator O'Toole mentioned his special interests but my nominating group is not nearly as powerful as that of Senator O'Toole. It is the Irish Deaf Society, which has a great knowledge of disability and disadvantage with regard to our education system.

Perhaps the Minister of State will take this up with the principals because the capitation grant is not being utilised when deaf parents or children come to them seeking an interpreter, which is deeply disturbing. The Irish Deaf Society is taking the lead in trying to establish a so-called call centre — an ironic pun when it comes to the deaf community — on this. For example, in England, if one appears before a body such as a local council, education board or principal of a school, there is a translator available on-line so that no matter what part of England a person is in, communication can be facilitated between the body and a member of the deaf community.

There are 5,000 people in Ireland, along with 50,000 family members, who use Irish sign language. As a Government spokesperson on the issue, I know some deeply upsetting facts on this. The United Nations Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities has yet to be ratified by Ireland, which seems senseless when one considers that 10% of the world's population live with a disability, accounting for 20% of the poorest people in the world. As the disability rate among the lower-educated in the OECD shows, it is those with disabilities who have the least amount of education.

One section of the Labour Party's motion states "Seanad Éireann believes that it is essential that children with disabilities have access to mainstream education for as long as possible", and I agree with it. The ratification of UN Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities is, putting it mildly, slowly coming about and it will, no doubt, give numerous rights to people like those of the Irish deaf community. It is difficult to believe and embarrassing for this country that countries such as Bangladesh, Chile, Cuba, Ecuador, El Salvador, Gabon, Guinea, Honduras, Mexico, Peru and the Philippines have preceded us in ratifying this convention. Even countries with questionable human rights records such as China and Saudi Arabia have managed to ratify the convention.

The European Union passed two resolutions, one in 1988 and another in 1998, indicating Irish sign language should be recognised and the UK, Denmark, Finland, Portugal and Sweden have done this. If we recognised Irish sign language, it would be incumbent on us to facilitate those people who use it in communication with Government. There is British and Irish sign language and, absurdly, Irish sign language has been recognised at least in one part of this island. Under the Good Friday Agreement, Irish sign language has received official status in Northern Ireland. Amazingly, in the Twenty-six Counties, Irish sign language has still to be ratified as an official language.

In its manifesto prior to the previous general election, the Green Party stated it would push for Irish sign language to become an official language, therefore allowing people to communicate with Government and those in education. This would help those who have the most to lose and the biggest mountain to climb, and who are less likely to have access to the education system we know because of disability. Without the official recognition of Irish sign language, those people will not have access to mainstream education. I, with my Green Party colleagues, hope to ensure Irish sign language gets official language recognition, as it should under the Good Friday Agreement. This promise has been implemented in the North but has not in this jurisdiction as of yet.

Photo of Brendan RyanBrendan Ryan (Labour)
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The Minister of State is welcome to the House. We were told this budget would contain tough measures but would protect the most vulnerable in society. What section of society is more vulnerable than people, especially children, with disabilities and their families who are struggling within an already inadequate system of education to get the education they deserve? The result of this budget is to make that struggle more difficult. Is this the protection of the most vulnerable in our society? This is just so unfair and callous that it defies belief.

Several measures contained in the budget severely affect people with disability. This group is more prone to hospital visits and will be affected by increased accident and emergency department, hospital bed and medical insurance costs. Access to mainstream education for as long as possible is essential for best outcomes in education for children with disabilities. The class size changes are a major setback in this regard as the opportunity for the one-to-one attention required and deserved will be severely reduced. In addition, equipment and resource grants for resource teachers are being abolished and the inadequate provision for special needs assistants continues. Is this the protection of the most vulnerable in our society?

The Education for Persons with Special Educational Needs Act 2004, a progressive piece of legislation, is to be deferred further, which is a major disappointment. There is a 1% cut for voluntary disability bodies on top of the 1% cut imposed by the Health Service Executive on those bodies. With inflation running at 4.5%, how are these voluntary bodies supposed to continue with existing levels of service, never mind cope with the increased demand for such services?

The ending of the payment of disability allowance to 16 and 17 year olds in favour of the domiciliary care allowance is a further attack on some of the most vulnerable in our society. This will amount to about a €7,000 per year hit on these young people and their struggling parents.

A delegation from the National Federation of Voluntary Bodies met the Minister for Social and Family Affairs, Deputy Mary Hanafin, yesterday to discuss proposed adjustments in the qualifying age for disability allowance payments to young people with a disability. They told the Minister that the federation is opposed to the budget proposals to reduce overall payments to young people with a disability and requested her not to implement them. They emphasised the future impact of the reductions on many of the young people involved, and the implications for their families. The Minister, Deputy Hanafin, in a reply to my party colleague, Deputy Kathleen Lynch, had stated that it was in response to a submission from the federation that she was implementing the change.

The federation made 29 recommendations, including an increase in the domiciliary care allowance, but only one was taken up. According to media reports last week, Brian O'Donnell, chief executive of the federation, stated:

This was nothing less than a cynical opportunity to save money in the context of a budgetary situation. We never envisaged they would do something as cynical as this.

Brian O'Donnell, along with the rest of the country, now knows what this Government is capable of. These cuts must be reversed because they are unacceptable in a civilized society. Where has our society got to that any Government could introduce such measures? How can a Government even contemplate such measures, let alone implement them? How can a Government that claims to protect the weakest and most vulnerable in our society make such political choices? Members should note that these are political choices and the Government has consciously decided to do this. While we are moving into more difficult economic times, much of which, unfortunately, is of our own doing, our elderly and children, in particular our children with disabilities and learning challenges, should not be targeted in this abominable manner.

As I stated at the outset, the people of Ireland were told this budget would contain tough measures but that it would protect the most vulnerable in our society. The opposite is the case with regard to people with disabilities and I support this motion.

7:00 pm

Photo of John MoloneyJohn Moloney (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Leas-Chathaoirleach for the opportunity to come before the Seanad. I apologise on behalf of the Minister for Education and Science, who was not available to attend the House this evening. I have taken note of most of the issues raised and will try to respond in my contribution to the concerns expressed by Members regarding the non-implementation of the Education for Persons with Special Educational Needs Act, issues pertaining to class sizes and questions regarding the overall budget strategy.

I take into account the genuine concerns raised by Members this evening. I note the nature of the motion, the process in which we are involved and that we are in an adversarial setting. The Opposition tables a motion and criticises the possible lack of interest of the Government, after which it is my duty to come before the House and respond to the criticism by using the figures and whatever else. While much time is wasted in this process, I acknowledge it is important for the Opposition to raise and criticise Government policy. By the same token, Members will accept that I must attend the House to refute at least some of the arguments put before me.

At the outset, it is worth noting that altogether 19,000 staff are employed in schools to deal specifically with children with special needs. Although I must go into considerable detail regarding the level of supports for children with special needs, I will preface my remarks by recognising that everyone wishes to see far better levels of service. My contention is that were it not for the great budgetary constraints placed upon it, the Government also would like to do this. Senator Boyle referred to this point a few minutes ago when he explained what the Government is spending on a daily basis. I make these points to explain that politicians, by their nature, are not in the business of introducing unpopular policies. Consequently, when they do, there must be a serious and solid reason for so doing.

I wish to take the opportunity to reaffirm, as I have done with those representatives of the disability sector who I have met in my role as Minister of State with responsibility for equality, disability and mental health, to groups and the wider public that the national disability strategy still is in place. The Government will do what it possibly can to give people with disabilities the services and supports they need. I also will take the opportunity to outline the Government's commitment in this regard in the recent budget. It also is important to confirm that persons with disabilities are and will remain a priority for the Government. I will explain this in the course of my contribution.

It also is important to emphasise that the creation of the office for disability, mental health and equality is an attempt to ensure that people with disabilities are recognised at Government level. It is an attempt to ensure there is cross-sectoral support for people with disabilities and I am greatly pleased to be backed up by people of the stature of Bairbre Nic Aonghusa, who heads up that office, and her most competent staff. I will not go into the background detail except to state the office exists, Members are aware of its functions, it is cross-sectoral and its purpose is to ensure services are provided and there is no delay in waiting for responses from different Departments.

It also is fair to note the Government has prioritised investments in services for people with disabilities in recent years. I make this point in response to the criticism the Government is walking away from the area of disabilities. Overall, approximately €2.6 billion is spent annually by the health service on disability programmes such as the residential, day care, respite, assessment and rehabilitation services, as well as on mental health programmes, domiciliary care and respite care grants and other allowances. It is important to make the point that funding and expenditure in respect of disability issues also is available from the mainstream health services. While the need to enhance further capacity is a continuing challenge, it is important to acknowledge the highly significant existing level of expenditure on health services for people with disabilities.

I do not wish to spend a great deal of time going through my prepared script to state what has been provided because Members are more concerned with what will be provided, except to state that €500 million has been allocated since 2006 under the multi-annual investment programme. Members all will agree this is a key component of the national disability strategy. Of this funding, €425 million was for disability services and €125 million for mental health services. The multi-annual programme will, by the end of 2008, provide for 980 new residential places, 313 new respite places and 2,505 new day places.

As for dealing with people with intellectual disabilities, which is of specific importance to my area of responsibility, 300 additional new places have been provided since 2006, as well as 950,000 additional hours. I make this point only in response to the criticism that the Government has ignored the disability area. While I accept that much more must be done, I will put on the record what has been done.

An area I have come to recognise as being highly important is the need to target the transfer of persons with intellectual disability and autism from psychiatric hospitals and other inappropriate placements. One is not obliged simply to rely on the funding that has been provided in this year's budget. It also is important to recognise that the commitment set out in A Vision for Change clearly underlines the great priority placed on securing appropriate places for people with intellectual disability.

The HSE also is working to improve access to multidisciplinary services, including therapy services, across all disciplines nationwide. It also is worth noting that since the establishment of the executive, the number of speech and language therapists has increased by 235 to 733, which constitutes an increase of 47% in that period. I will respond to the criticism that the Government is ignoring the need for occupational therapists. I also take the points made by Senator Phil Prendergast. While great need obviously exists in some locations, the waiting lists appear to be manageable in other geographical areas. The Department should examine the issue of how waiting periods can obtain in some parts of the country, while demand can be easily managed in other parts. I do not wish to bore Members with the figures but the number of occupational therapists has increased by 326 to 1,031, which constitutes an increase of 46%. Moreover, the number of physiotherapists has increased by 302 to 1,434, which constitutes an increase of 27%. In 2006 and 2007 alone, more than 2,245 additional health and social care professionals, including therapy posts, have been filled to provide services for people with disabilities.

I wish to apologise again in respect of the fiasco last year, when €50 million was provided specifically under the multi-annual investment programme for people with intellectual disabilities. Members will recall the delays involved. The delay was responded to publicly by the HSE and arose from its attempt to check on the efficiency of services. The response last year was not adequate and I assure the House this will not happen again and the funding secured for mental health and the disabilities area will be ring-fenced. I can promise that similar delays will not occur in this area. Of the €50 million, €33 million has been drawn down. To explain, by the time the funding had been cleared, the short gap available in which to recruit people was inadequate. I acknowledge this is my area of responsibility and this delay should not have happened. I again make a commitment to the House that it will not recur. As for services for people with physical and sensory disabilities, 80 additional places have been allocated. I acknowledge the need for more, however.

Senators will note that I did not go overboard in terms of issuing a press release on my Department's success in securing an additional €20 million for children with special educational needs. I recognise that we have all agreed to do everything we can to secure extra services and I am pleased that funding was provided. Of this allocation, €10 million will be provided to the Health Service Executive and €10 million to the Department of Education and Science to enable services for children with special educational needs to be enhanced and strengthened. The additional €10 million allocated to the HSE will provide for 125 additional therapy posts in disability and mental health services targeted at children of school-going age. An additional 90 posts will be created in the disability services area, including speech and language therapists, occupational therapists, physiotherapists and psychologists for children's disability services. An additional 35 posts will be created for child and adolescent mental health services, including clinical psychologists, occupational therapists, speech and language therapists and social workers.

I acknowledge the concerns expressed by Senators in regard to the postponement of the Education for Persons with Special Educational Needs Act 2004 on foot of the financial constraints placed upon us. The €20 million provided in the budget represents an attempt to establish the necessary services, however. I accept Senator Prendergast's advice in respect of the lack of legal safeguards but we are trying to prepare the ground in order that therapists will be at least in place when the economy improves. Rather than brag about this funding, I recognise the need for the services.

Almost €1 billion is provided each year to non-statutory providers of disability services. Several Senators have raised this issue. Our intention is not to reduce the services provided by non-statutory groups; rather we are trying to streamline them. Streamlining is often regarded as a means of taking back funding but that is not our intention. I have met with a number of these service providers to assure them I am not attempting to withdraw their resources. There are more than 600 different voluntary groups and it is impossible to deal that level of variety. I am in the process of appointing somebody to chair a review of services. That person will be independent of politics and acceptable to the disability and mental health sectors. The Minister for Health and Children, Deputy Harney, has made clear her intention of providing support to groups while the review process is ongoing. In the event that the services of a particular group overlap and are thus no longer required, she will make available the financial resources required by the group to make its case. We will not awake some morning to discover that 300 groups have been removed form the sector. People will have the opportunity to make their input and, more importantly, the process will take six to nine months and will not be rushed.

In line with the efficiency measures being introduced elsewhere in the health system, an efficiency reduction of 1% will be applied to the allocations of non-statutory disability agencies for 2009. It is envisaged that the efficiencies will be achieved in non-frontline areas such as advertising, travel and subsistence, public relations and management and administrative payroll costs.

Widespread concerns have been expressed regarding the announcement in the budget of a change from 16 to 18 years in respect of the domiciliary care allowance and the subsequent payment of disability allowance. This is not a cute attempt to make savings. One hour is not sufficient time to explain all the details of a budget. Measures should be rolled out long before the Budget Statement, although I do not suggest they should be presented as faits accomplis. While Ministers are properly concerned lest a budgetary provision allowed somebody to make a quick buck, I have proposed to the Taoiseach that we should begin to consider the implications of changes long in advance of the Budget Statement so that people can tease out their implications.

Since the announcement of the changes to the domiciliary care allowance, a number of families and organisations representing people with disabilities have expressed reservations. I will not rehearse the background to the proposal, except to note that my colleague, the Minister for Social and Family Affairs, has engaged in extensive consultations with groups representing people with disabilities and service providers in the disability sector in order to hear their concerns at first hand. These discussions confirmed the view that the existing age limit for receipt of disability allowance is too low and should be raised to 18. They also highlighted a number of other concerns, including the potential loss of income at short notice for families of young people with disabilities. I understand the Minister is reflecting on these issues in advance of the publication of the Social Welfare Bill.

Accident and emergency charges will increase from €66 to €100 for non-medical card holders who attend accident and emergency departments without letters from their GPs. Senators will be aware how busy accident and emergency units can become. Although accident and emergency services are designed to provide health care in emergency situations, a significant number of attendances involve the treatment of relatively minor conditions. The increased charge is an attempt to incentivise people to avail of medical care in the community or through their GPs in the first instance. This will enable accident and emergency departments to increasingly concentrate on the management and care of more serious conditions. There will also be an increase of €9 in the public hospital statutory in-patient bed charge, bringing it to €75 per night for a maximum of ten nights per year.

In response to the concerns expressed by Senators regarding the Education for Persons with Special Needs Act, it is important to note that children with special educational needs will continue to receive an education appropriate to their needs. The budget for resource teachers has not been reduced and funding for special needs assistants will be sustained. Several Senators took the view that cuts were being applied in a timid manner or were improperly explained. Transport will continue to be provided and assistive technology will be sanctioned where appropriate. The increase of €302 million in the education budget for 2009 is a real achievement in the current economic climate. Education is one of only three Departments to have increased funding in 2009. This has involved a number of tough and difficult decisions. Some 80% of the education funding will go to salaries and frontline staff.

I hope I have responded to most of the issues raised. This is not an attempt to move after the most vulnerable but to spread scarce resources across the area of education and special needs. If there are further queries I will try to respond later.

Photo of Joe O'ReillyJoe O'Reilly (Fine Gael)
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I congratulate the Minister of State on his appointment and wish him well. I thank him for the frankness of his comments and for cutting through the script to speak frankly.

The proposal to remove the disability allowance from young people of 16 to 18 years and replace it with the domiciliary care allowance is a retrograde step and is bad news for families with someone with a disability. Those families stand to lose €6,000 per annum or €12,000 over two years. It is proposed that they seek the domiciliary care allowance, which would allow them €300 per month. The Minister of State indicated this may be revisited. I hope that is the case and I would welcome that. Anything else is highly discriminatory and should not have been included in the budget.

I have consistently made the point in the Seanad, on the Order of Business and on other occasions, that we should never seek to rectify the grave fiscal errors of the past 11 years on the backs of the weak and vulnerable, such as disabled people. I received a briefing from an association called Special Needs Active Parents, SNAP, set up in 2004, which is active in the north-eastern area of the country, including Cavan, Monaghan, Louth and Meath. The briefing refers to the shortage in that area of therapy.

I would be pleased if the Minister of State would investigate the veracity of this example, which I believe will stand up. In St. Brigid's special school in Ard Easmuinn, Dundalk, no speech therapy has been available since June 2005. A seven year old boy with special needs has not received speech therapy in that time. There is a shortage of speech therapists, psychologists and occupational therapists. Children who have turned six years of age and are due to be transferred from the early intervention team to the children's team have been placed on waiting lists due to the lack of therapists available. The Department of Health and Children and the HSE need to set up a long-term strategy to train and retain the required number of therapists. According to a spokesperson for the Irish Association of Speech and Language Therapists on "Morning Ireland" on 3 March 2007, the first batch of speech therapists from three new university courses were due to graduate this summer. The association estimates that half of them will emigrate as there are no jobs available. That is at variance with the figures presented by the Minister of State of the availability of speech therapy. I welcome one suggestion by the Minister of State where he——

Photo of Paddy BurkePaddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Some Member has a mobile telephone that is interfering with the sound system.

Photo of David NorrisDavid Norris (Independent)
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I have a mobile telephone but it is turned off completely.

Photo of Joe O'ReillyJoe O'Reilly (Fine Gael)
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I welcome the suggestion that the Minister of State will examine the distribution of speech therapy services and professional services across the country. The practical information coming to me from well documented cases——

Photo of Paddy BurkePaddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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A Member has a mobile telephone that is interfering with the entire Seanad sound system. Setting the telephone on silent mode does not preclude it from interfering with the system.

Photo of Joe O'ReillyJoe O'Reilly (Fine Gael)
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There is a need to examine the distribution of services because there is evidence to suggest a glaring absence of professional services in many areas. That speech therapists and other professional people in this area are emigrating is a horrendous indictment of the way services are organised.

I am aware of a physiotherapist who is on a panel for a job in this region. The person has been on the waiting list for 18 months, yet the expertise will go abroad. This is bizarre and must be examined.

The idea of increasing hospital charges for people with special needs is horrendous. The charge increased from €66 to €100. I commend the Labour Party on this excellent motion, which I am proud to support. The overall proposition is that 28:1 class ratios will greatly discriminate against those with special needs. The discrimination is heightened by the fact that we have multi-ethnic, multi-lingual classes with people from a variety of backgrounds. The ratio of 28:1 will not apply everywhere — there will be bizarre cases with classes in the 30s. It will be impossible to have special needs people in these classes. There must be a reversal of class size numbers. The proposition of 28:1 will leave 1,000 teachers out of the system next year when one takes the demographic aspect into consideration.

The motion is worthy of support. I call on Government speakers, of whom Senator Corrigan is next, to do the right thing, withdraw the amendment and support the motion, which stands on its merits. We should put young people with special needs at the top of the pyramid in terms of estimation and distribution of resources.

Photo of Maria CorriganMaria Corrigan (Fianna Fail)
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I welcome the Minister of State and particularly his commitment that the money allocated to disabilities and mental health will be spent in that area. For far too long, these areas have been seen as easy targets when the HSE sought to offset over-spending in other areas. I welcome the commitment of the Minister of State and am delighted that we will no longer experience the situation that occurred earlier this year.

Since 1997, Fianna Fáil-led Governments have demonstrated concrete commitment to people with disabilities. This has been manifest in many ways, including the introduction of multi-annual funding, the national disability strategy that was recently incorporated into the new social partnership agreement, Towards 2016, and the establishment of the Office for Disability and Mental Health. Increased funding since Fianna Fáil came to government has meant more opportunities for day programmes, residential and living options, greater supports in education and an increased number of special needs assistants and therapists. For example, in regard to special needs assistants, the number working in our schools has increased from 300 in 1997 to more than 10,000 today.

The issues confronting people with disabilities cannot be rectified with funding alone but require a combination of funding, policy, legislation and attitude change. The establishment of the Office for Disability and Mental Health offers us an enormous opportunity to co-ordinate these requirements. This office brings together responsibility for a range of policy areas which will improve co-ordination between service providers and the various Departments. These directly impact on the daily lives of people with a disability and people with mental health issues. As the Minister of State outlined, the office will aim to bring about improvements in the manner in which services respond to the needs of people with disabilities and mental health issues. It will do this by working to develop person-centred services and, I hope, person-led services focusing on the holistic needs of clients and service users and, crucially, involving them in their own care.

I do not wish to repeat the many points made by colleagues but rather to focus on two aspects, namely, an increase in the number of therapists and the role of the National Educational Psychological Service and school leavers with mild intellectual disability. As a psychologist specialising in the area of disability and mental health, I particularly welcome the commitment in this budget to allocating an additional €20 million to this area. This will result in a range of additional therapist posts from speech and language therapists to occupational therapists to physiotherapists to psychologists. This funding will be allocated between the HSE and the Department of Education and Science.

In seeking to provide increased funding for therapists and having ensured that funding, a number of issues must be addressed, namely, their training, recruitment and employment. Undoubtedly, in recent years, the Government, through increasing the number of training places for therapists, has laid the foundation for them to be recruited. It is essential, however, if we are to seek to recruit therapists into the area of disability, that their training incorporates a knowledge of disability and, where appropriate, placements in disability services.

Recruitment and employment in the area of disability is an ongoing challenge. Senator O'Reilly referred to a physiotherapist of whom he is aware who is on a panel but anecdotal information and my experience suggests that while we saw an increase in therapist positions, we did not necessarily see the same increase in the number of applications for vacancies within disability services. This arises as an issue for a number of reasons. Since there is not as much exposure to, and training in, the area of disability during training, there is perhaps not the same awareness of working within the area of disability and of the enormous job satisfaction that can be found through working with people with disabilities. It is essential that this is addressed and that we examine the reasons for the difficulties in recruiting therapists to work within the area of disability.

I refer to one of the impediments we should seek to address and in which the Minister of State's office could play a role. Anecdotally, we hear from therapists that they would like a case mix, that they do not want to work solely in the area of disability and would appreciate the opportunity to work a couple of days in disability and a couple of days in community services. If we want better co-ordination of services and if we want to fill the vacancies, we should be able to adopt a much more flexible structure. It is important we demonstrate a commitment to continuous professional development. That is important not only to attract and retain professionals but also to ensure the people in receipt of their services will receive excellent and continuously developing services.

I refer to the role of psychologists in schools and the National Educational Psychological Service. It is important that psychologists are not limited to assessments. They have much more to offer. It is very important in the school setting that we utilise their skills in training workshops for teachers, assistants and parents and give them the opportunity to work with groups of pupils. In that way, we will maximise their impact.

I am particularly concerned about school leavers with mild intellectual disability. They do not have the same opportunities afforded to pupils without a disability who will often go on to some form of third level education. A child with moderate or profound intellectual disability tends to be linked into an overall service. However, children with mild intellectual disability attending special schools or special classes often fall through the cracks as they come to the end of the school cycle because there is no automatic link.

I welcome the mental capacity Bill which I understand will be before us by the end of the year. There is an important role to play in preventing disability. Will the Minister of State keep in mind running an awareness campaign around vaccinations and the MMR? I welcome the fact that in these very challenging economic times, we were able to find additional moneys for services for people with disabilities.

Photo of David NorrisDavid Norris (Independent)
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I welcome the Minister of State who is from my part of the world. I know him to be a decent and courageous man. I was in the church in Westland Row when he stood up. His name, John Moloney, did not mean anything but when people heard the words "Fianna Fáil", a palpable wave of anger travelled down the church. I have never experienced anything like it. The reason for that was not personal culpability but because the Government did not listen. Unfortunately, people will not now listen to it.

Nobody is denying we are in a very serious financial situation. That is a given. This side of the House was challenged by Senator Boyle who is an exceptionally decent man. He asked what changes we would make and what would we do. I would not have started with the sick, the disabled and the elderly. They should not be the first targets but the very last ones. This will have a real impact on the disabled, in particular.

I am an Independent Senator and vote on the merits of a case. The Labour Party motion was clear, precise and factual but the Government's amendment was the usual self-congratulatory waffle. If one was to accept the Minister of State's contribution together with the amendment, one would be persuaded that the Government was doing disabled people a favour and that they were better off. It is a kind of mad mathematical conjuring trick.

A piece of advice I would give is to take up Senator Joe O'Toole's offer. He made a fantastic and passionate contribution. He knew what he was talking about and I know the Minister of State discusses issues with him. He said he could produce budget neutral cuts which would have the same effect. The Minister of State should discuss this with him. If he wants to know what to do, that is one bloody good idea.

The number of people involved is enormous — some 393,785. It is almost 10% of the population. We have done a good job in improving their situation but it is awful to give people a gift and then snatch it away. The disappointment is reduplicated by that. I attended a briefing a fortnight ago by the Disability Federation of Ireland. It was already complaining and asked that the Minister give back the stolen €85 million, that is, the money diverted by the HSE. The Minister of State addressed part of this issue courageously.

A total of €10 million has been provided in additional funding but there is a 1% cut across the board. Again, it is a case of taking and giving at the same time. There is a 2.1% increase in the application. A sizable proportion of that should go towards stabilising the position for the disabled. We need to reinstate the diverted funds I mentioned and put in place proper mechanisms. I will mention a couple of figures to make it clear that what I raise is factual. The Central Statistics Office states that the weekly allowance for disability for 2008 was €197.80. I will supply the Minister of State with the figures directly. There is no doubt there is a significant decrease. Taking into account all the creative mathematics there will be a loss of €13,000 to €14,000 over a two year period.

I want to put a human face on this. The chairman of the Donegal Down's Syndrome Association illustrated that as a result of the budget the qualifying age for disability allowance was being raised from 16 to 18, and he would loose €13,000 over two years. It is cynical to argue that it is to encourage them to go out and get a job. Some of these people are profoundly disabled. It is an appalling comment and should be withdrawn. Another man, whose daughter had Down's Syndrome, stated that when she passed away last year at the age of 26, he was refused a bereavement grant on the grounds that she had no record of employment, and therefore had no entitlements. If people are profoundly disabled and cannot take up employment, they will be punished twice.

We think these people can be exported out into a world where competition reigns, capitalism is supreme and nobody gives a tuppenny damn. Margaret Thatcher came right in the end. We have an economy and not a society.

Photo of Ivana BacikIvana Bacik (Independent)
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I thank Senator Norris for sharing his time. I welcome the opportunity to debate this motion on the impact of these severe cutbacks on children with disabilities. I echo the views of Senator Norris that these cuts will hurt the old, the sick and the handicapped, but the focus tonight is on their impact on children.

I have come from a demonstration outside this House, which other Members also attended, at which thousands of angry parents, teachers and children were present. It was called by the INTO, the ASTI and other unions. It was clear to anyone who was out there in the pouring rain that there was palpable anger at the serious impact these proposed cutbacks would have on all children, and in particular on vulnerable children. The focus of tonight's motion is very important.

Buried in the Minister's self-congratulatory speech was the acknowledgement that the implementation of the Education of Persons with Special Educational Needs Act 2004 and the Disability Act 2005 will be deferred beyond 2010. The acknowledgement that class sizes will be increased was also buried in the speech, which will have a severe impact on the education of all children at primary level, particularly those with special needs or disabilities.

We will also see severe cutbacks impacting on children who require language support, of whom there are many in the education system, and on Traveller children as special supports for them have been cut. Children will suffer, parents and teachers will struggle to cope, and class sizes will rocket beyond the OECD average. They are already high enough. There was a commitment in the Government's programme to reduce them. There was a particular commitment by the Green Party to reduce class sizes, and instead we will see them increase, with a consequent impact on children and parents.

There is a need to focus on the role of the junior coalition partner, the Green Party. It came into office with a commitment to making education a key political priority. There is a question as to how the Minister of State's party, and the Green Party, can sit by while class sizes increase, there is a severe impact on the most vulnerable children in our society, and parents and teachers are outside the doors of Leinster House seeking for their voices to be heard. I ask the Minister of State to consider reversing these cutbacks. The money should come from other sources. There are other resources available, and other suggestions have been made. A tax on the super-rich is an idea that should be taken on board.

Photo of Mary WhiteMary White (Fianna Fail)
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I welcome the Minister of State. The gatherings outside Leinster House remind me of the monster gatherings of Daniel O'Connell, when he called a quarter of a million people to the Hill of Tara. When the Minister of State spoke in Westland Row, it was not personal.

The Mental Health Commission Annual Report for 2007 has just been published. It highlighted child and adolescent mental health services as an area requiring special attention. The Council of Europe report by the Commissioner for Human Rights, Mr Hammarberg, on his visit to Ireland in November 2007 stated, "Placing children who are in need of psychiatric treatment in adult facilities is in breach of the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child". In 2007 193 children aged between 13 and 17 were admitted to adult psychiatric services. The majority were aged 17.

In regard to my policy document, What We Can Do About Suicide In The New Ireland, Mr. Hammarberg's report states, "There appears to be significant gaps in community based care and access to services for those at risk of self-harm, including children". The Children's Rights Alliance has raised concerns about child and adolescent psychiatric service being underdeveloped and under-funded. As a result, children and adolescents continue to be treated through adult services and have to endure long waiting periods, sometimes three to five years, for assessment.

The Irish Prison Chaplain's annual report 2006-2007 refers to 3,000 children on waiting lists for assessment, and 300 children treated each year in adult psychiatric services. It is frightening to think of little children, some of whom are suicidal, who need psychiatric help and cannot get it. It is cruel.

The Ombudsman for Children, Ms Emily Logan, has called on the Government to implement its mental health policy, A Vision for Change, with a particular focus on children. This would entail the extension of current social services provided to children and families at risk to a seven day, 24 hour service. I have raised this issue on other occasions. There are 113,000 people working in the HSE, which has an annual budget of €14.5 billion. I fail to understand how they cannot provide a 24 hour service; it is beyond me.

Children up to 18 years comprise a quarter of the population of Ireland. The majority of children do not develop mental health problems, but at any point approximately 2% of children require specialist mental health expertise. I recommended a businesslike approach by the different regional directors of the HSE to put in place a strategy in their own areas to reduce the list of children who need psychiatric services, and to show how they could reduce the list to zero.

I also recommend that the Minister of State at the Department of Health and Children, Deputy Barry Andrews, takes responsibility for ensuring the different arms of the State deliver on providing acceptable out-patient and in-patient psychiatric services for children and adolescents. He monitors the implementation of the National Children's Strategy. If I had anything to do with that, I would have the Minister of State, Deputy Andrews take responsibility at the Cabinet for reducing the lists——

(Interruptions).

Photo of Mary WhiteMary White (Fianna Fail)
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I am the spokesperson on children in this House. It is my duty and responsibility to spell out what is the situation. The Minister of State, Deputy Andrews, in his capacity in the Cabinet and his ministerial role, should take responsibility and convince his colleagues at the Cabinet table. That is what Deputy Donogh O'Malley was able to do in his day——

Photo of John MoloneyJohn Moloney (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I have every confidence in the Minister of State, Deputy Andrews, at the Cabinet table. I am certain he supports Government policy and supports——

Photo of John Paul PhelanJohn Paul Phelan (Fine Gael)
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The Minister of State has made his contribution.

Photo of John MoloneyJohn Moloney (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I want to put the record straight lest people think the Minister of State is not doing his job.

Photo of John Paul PhelanJohn Paul Phelan (Fine Gael)
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The Minister of State should talk to his party colleagues.

Photo of John MoloneyJohn Moloney (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The Minister of State is certainly doing his job.

Photo of Paddy BurkePaddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Senator White must conclude.

Photo of Mary WhiteMary White (Fianna Fail)
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The Minister of State, Deputy Andrews, is a friend of mine. I was not inferring that. In my document——

Photo of John MoloneyJohn Moloney (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I would not be too concerned with the document. I am just making the point that I will support the Minister of State at Cabinet.

Photo of Paddy BurkePaddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Senator White must conclude.

Photo of Mary WhiteMary White (Fianna Fail)
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I have 31 recommendations in my document on how to reduce the rate of suicide in Ireland and one of them is that the Minister with responsibility for children take responsibility at Cabinet——

Photo of Paddy BurkePaddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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I must ask the Senator to conclude.

Photo of Mary WhiteMary White (Fianna Fail)
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I have to defend my character on the radar. I spent a year studying this issue. I have 31 recommendations in my document. I spent three months writing it and one of my 31 recommendations is that the Minister with responsibility for children be given a new responsibility to take on the——

Photo of Paddy BurkePaddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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I must call Senator Prendergast.

Photo of Mary WhiteMary White (Fianna Fail)
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——overall implementation, including the delivery of psychiatric services for children. Children should not be treated in adult hospitals.

Photo of Nicky McFaddenNicky McFadden (Fine Gael)
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Hear, hear.

Photo of Phil PrendergastPhil Prendergast (Labour)
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I want to pick up on some points made by Senator Ó Domhnaill who praised the existing system. This motion is about a worsening of the system. What point was the Senator making? Was he welcoming these cutbacks?

The Green Party attacked the Labour Party over something that happened long before I was a member of the party. It has no relevance today or to what has happened now. We have had such unprecedented wealth and boom that it has become so clichéd it is almost sickening. While the Labour Party might have started that process, it did not squander it or make matters worse.

Photo of Alex WhiteAlex White (Labour)
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Hear, hear.

Photo of Phil PrendergastPhil Prendergast (Labour)
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The parents and school teachers who have talked to me and to the Members opposite have not made it up. I know of a child of 14 years of age who escaped the system and has now been diagnosed with Asperger's syndrome, he is self-harming and expressing a wish that he was dead. There are no facilities in place for him. I have sat in the kitchens of parents of children with autism and heard of how their resources and health care hours have been cut.

At the end of this debate and at the end of the school day and school year, parents will have to cope with the worsening financial situation, bad news, more bad news and worse news. Despite that, there is a great deal of self-congratulatory claptrap. In saying that, I mean no disrespect to the Minister of State or to his office. I have the highest regard for him as the former chairman of the Committee on Health and Children and he is trying to do his job. However, there must be a disconnection when I hear what people say to me on the doorstep or in the kitchen when I visit these people who cannot come to my clinic because they have a disabled child, a child with an educational deficit or some other concern with which they have to deal. When I go to their houses, a wheelchair may have to be pushed out of the way and those people cope because they simply have to. The budget has made things considerably worse for them.

People now have time to digest what is in the small print of the budget and we are all still digesting that. I am dependent on other people because, as a midwife, I am not an expert on education, but I am a mother and I know what my children needed. When additional resources were needed in my children's school, we were in a position to get them. That was in the lucky decade when everything was fantastic.

We have to face reality and we are not in denial about that. Senator Joe O'Toole mentioned that he could issue the Minister with a cost effective and cost neutral means of obtaining the funding required without it impacting on the disadvantaged, the disabled, the needy and the tormented. The parents and siblings of disabled people will now have to find additional resources and suffer additional torment because they will have to get somebody or something to fill the abyss.

With respect to Senator Mary White, I am also a member of the sub-committee on suicide. I have heard the word "suicide" mentioned many times and so inappropriately because people are that desperate. What does one say to a parent of a child who says her son is expressing a wish that he were dead? As a mother and a nurse there are not words that can capture what that means?

It is frightening the way people are reacting to different aspects of the budget. The approach to it can be fragmented. Having heard the Minister of State's speech, it is wonderful that such facilities are in place, but the people who have made representations to me are not able to avail of them. If one is not a certain age or, as stated in the advertisement, one needs seven wise virgins and the blood of a unicorn's horn or whatever, one cannot qualify for something. That is frustrating when one is talking to people who have an identified need. I have not met the breed of people who have sought something to which they were not entitled and who have tried to pull a fast one, and I am long enough in politics not to be taken for a fool.

We need to look back. The failure to implement the EPSEN Act has had huge ramifications for people. The effect of the increase in class sizes was already identified. The issue has become a cliché and people are fatigued about it because there is such an overuse of the terminology. If my child were in a school and his abilities were not what they should be, I would regard it as the role of the teacher to ensure his needs were met, and that is not to demean the role of the teacher.

I ask that this motion be supported. I thank the Minister of State for listening and I thank the Senators, including Senator Mary White, for their support.

Amendment put.

The Dail Divided:

For the motion: 25 (Dan Boyle, Martin Brady, Larry Butler, Ivor Callely, Ciarán Cannon, John Carty, Donie Cassidy, Maria Corrigan, Mark Daly, Déirdre de Búrca, John Ellis, Camillus Glynn, John Gerard Hanafin, Terry Leyden, Marc MacSharry, Brian Ó Domhnaill, Labhrás Ó Murchú, Francis O'Brien, Denis O'Donovan, Fiona O'Malley, Ned O'Sullivan, Kieran Phelan, Jim Walsh, Mary White, Diarmuid Wilson)

Against the motion: 18 (Ivana Bacik, Paul Bradford, Paddy Burke, Jerry Buttimer, Paudie Coffey, Paul Coghlan, Maurice Cummins, Paschal Donohoe, Fidelma Healy Eames, Alan Kelly, Nicky McFadden, David Norris, John Paul Phelan, Phil Prendergast, Eugene Regan, Brendan Ryan, Liam Twomey, Alex White)

Tellers: Tá, Senators Déirdre de Búrca and Diarmuid Wilson; Níl, Senators Brendan Ryan and Alex White.

Amendment declared carried.

Question put: "That the motion, as amended, be agreed to".

The Dail Divided:

For the motion: 25 (Dan Boyle, Martin Brady, Larry Butler, Ivor Callely, Ciarán Cannon, John Carty, Donie Cassidy, Maria Corrigan, Mark Daly, Déirdre de Búrca, John Ellis, Camillus Glynn, John Gerard Hanafin, Terry Leyden, Marc MacSharry, Brian Ó Domhnaill, Labhrás Ó Murchú, Francis O'Brien, Denis O'Donovan, Fiona O'Malley, Ned O'Sullivan, Kieran Phelan, Jim Walsh, Mary White, Diarmuid Wilson)

Against the motion: 20 (Ivana Bacik, Paul Bradford, Paddy Burke, Jerry Buttimer, Paudie Coffey, Paul Coghlan, Maurice Cummins, Pearse Doherty, Paschal Donohoe, Fidelma Healy Eames, Alan Kelly, Nicky McFadden, David Norris, Joe O'Reilly, John Paul Phelan, Phil Prendergast, Eugene Regan, Brendan Ryan, Liam Twomey, Alex White)

Tellers: Tá, Senators Déirdre de Búrca and Diarmuid Wilson; Níl, Senators Brendan Ryan and Alex White.

Question declared carried.

Photo of Pat MoylanPat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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When is it proposed to sit again?

Photo of Donie CassidyDonie Cassidy (Fianna Fail)
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Leathuair tar éis a deich, maidin amárach.