Jim O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay South, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I thank all Senators for their contributions and, more importantly, for their support. It was mentioned that I started this legislation in the Seanad. I do not want to be unfair to the Lower House, of which I am a Member, but sometimes in the Seanad we get a more considered and non-political response. That is certainly what I have got this evening, and I will take on board what has been said by Senators from all parties and none.

I acknowledge the role of Senator Fiona O'Loughlin and Deputy Paul McAuliffe, who put constant pressure on me. It is important that pressure is there. Sometimes it is easier not to legislate unless there is an absolute requirement for it. This is a choice that we in the Houses of the Oireachtas, and I, as Minister, are making to decide that this is a change of the direction that we wish to go in our criminal justice system. It is important legislation, notwithstanding the fact that it is concise.

We can understand the need for this. On the Courts Service website at present, there is a section for judgments. After clicking into that, one can see judgments from the Supreme Court, the Court of Appeal, the High Court and some from the Circuit Court. What is noticeable is that, in respect of the vast majority of judgments, none of them relate to criminal matters unless they are criminal cases that have been appealed to the Court of Appeal. The reason this applies is that if a person is being prosecuted for serious assault causing harm, and if they are convicted, that is going to happen in the Circuit Criminal Courts around the country. The only way that we become aware of that is through the reportage of it by persons who were in court, such as journalists.

At the end of every criminal case, there is no written judgment of a judge in the same way as there would be in a civil action in the High Court. If there is a case in the High Court and the parties are heard, the judge will reserve judgment in many instances, and we will then see a written judgment. In the Circuit Criminal Court, if somebody is convicted of serious assault causing harm, there is no judgment but there is the finding of the jury, and then there is the sentencing by the judge. In general, we do not get reserved judgments in respect of that.

My view, and I know it is the view of everyone here, is that since the Constitution says that justice shall be administered in public, it is important that we know what is happening in our criminal courts. Regrettably, because of the growth of the courts system and the growth of our population, it is not possible for journalists to be reporting on what is happening in every Circuit Criminal Court in the country. It is simply not tenable for that to happen. We have a very busy Central Criminal Court sitting in Dublin, Cork and Limerick. That is where most of the media attention is, and that is the reportage that we see in general on the news at nighttime.

What is happening frequently throughout the country is that the decisions and convictions are being imposed, and people do not get to hear about them. If people go online and try to find out about them in a similar way to the reserved judgments that can be accessed, they will not be able to find reserved convictions or reserved orders. The only way they will find out that somebody has been convicted in a Circuit Criminal Court of a serious offence, or an offence causing serious harm against a partner, is if a journalist happened to be in court and reported it. It is a major failing in our system that justice, which is being administered in public, is not really available to the public in the same way as other types of cases are if they have a reserved judgment.

This Bill marks a significant change in direction. It recognises for the first time that we are giving a statutory power to the courts to say that when it comes to certain types of convictions by the criminal courts, a judgment can be prepared and delivered which will be put on the register of judgments as provided for in this legislation. That is an important departure and will be beneficial.

Many Senators referred to other types of offences that should be included within it. The most important thing to say about this legislation is that it only kicks in on conviction of a criminal offence. It is not going to arise, nor could it arise, in respect of breaches of orders that arise in family law proceedings. As we all know, one of the few areas where there is an exception to the administration of justice in public is family law, where you are not allowed to attend out of a legitimate and understandable requirement to protect the identity of people before the courts.

There is an issue in terms of providing basic information to which people are entitled. Any member of the public can go into a court on any day of the week. They can sit at the back at any prosecution for assault causing serious harm. They can sit there and watch the judgment. They can find out that a person has been convicted of assaulting their partner and they can talk about it. Unfortunately, we are dependent to a large extent on finding out about this through journalism. In fairness to journalists, they cannot cover all courts, and even if they could, not all of them would be reported.

I have listened very carefully to what Senators had to say, in particular the points raised by Senators Kelleher, Stephenson and Cosgrove. As Senator Cosgrove said, this is not a silver bullet. Any time that a judgment is published on the Courts Service register, it will be publicly available. However, just because somebody is listed does not mean that there are not others who have been convicted but are not listed. The reality is that not everyone who is convicted will be on it. Nor would I like a message to go out so that people would think, "Oh, my new partner is not on the register and therefore everything is fine". We need to realise that this is not going to solve every issue. It is the start of a legislative process of ensuring that we try to make available more of the information to which people are entitled. It will ensure that, in a case like the tragic incident that happened to Jennifer Poole, if a judge sees there is a serious conviction and the court believes the person is a threat and a danger, in order to protect other persons, he or she, as a judge, can deliver a judgment identifying the person, and it is publicly available. That is an important development.

I also note the reference to the three-year period. I will give consideration to this issue. I need to ensure, though, that this is not something that is going to be challenged. I would prefer to start cautiously and then move to expand it more, rather than start in a very expansive way and then be challenged before the courts, perhaps successfully challenged. However, it is something that needs to be considered.

Senator Stephenson referred to summary convictions. At present, I am limiting it to the convictions that are set out in the Bill. I am conscious that we do not want to inundate the system with a large number of judgments. It is important that we start this, see how it develops and see what types of judgments are coming out of it. I have no doubt that, in time, people will say that we can improve this legislation by doing something else. However, the start is a significant point for us. It is a start where these Houses are recognising that there is a constitutional mandate for justice to be administered in public, and this is building on that.

A number of Senators mentioned broader issues. There are a huge number of issues that are influencing and affecting violence against women and girls. Senator Mullen and others mentioned the level of violence and extreme pornography that is online at present. What that is doing is distorting the development of the sexuality of younger people. It is making them think that what they are seeing online is somehow the normal way that people engage in their sexual relationships. That is having a very distorting impact on the sexual development of young men and young women. Also, I regret to say, and I know this from the Garda, it is increasing the level of violence that is being used in sexual assaults.

There are huge issues out there for the Members of this House, the Government and the Dáil in terms of trying to respond to the real threat that is posed, predominantly to women and girls, through violence within relationships. I believe this Bill is a small but important legislative development. I thank Senators for their support.I will conclude where I started by commending Jason Poole and Joe Poole on being here today and Jason on his continuous commitment. Legislation and politicians react to human stories and what has happened in human life. The story of Jennifer Poole is really what influenced this legislation, in the same way as the story of Valerie French influenced the guardianship of infants legislation.