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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Governance Issues: Irish Horseracing Regulatory Board (Resumed) (29 Nov 2023)

Paul Daly: The only sample that must be taken by a fully qualified vet is a blood sample. If no vet were available, the IHRB could decide to go to Thurles, for example - there was a meet in Dundalk today but I do not know where there is one tomorrow - to do testing but would just take hair and urine samples.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Governance Issues: Irish Horseracing Regulatory Board (Resumed) (29 Nov 2023)

Paul Daly: An occasion would not arise where samples would be taken, even if only hair or urine, without a vet present.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Governance Issues: Irish Horseracing Regulatory Board (Resumed) (29 Nov 2023)

Paul Daly: I will return to something the Chair said earlier. The offenders probably have access to all of the technologies and developments in medicine before we do. What changes has the IHRB made, even since we spoke two years ago? Is it still just testing for the same products and substances? What has changed?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Governance Issues: Irish Horseracing Regulatory Board (Resumed) (29 Nov 2023)

Paul Daly: This is the same laboratory we were talking about the last time the IHRB was here.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Governance Issues: Irish Horseracing Regulatory Board (Resumed) (29 Nov 2023)

Paul Daly: We are no closer to our own Irish laboratory.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Governance Issues: Irish Horseracing Regulatory Board (Resumed) (29 Nov 2023)

Paul Daly: In answering the Cathaoirleach Mr. O'Loughlin said Mazars has been given access to all of the employees if they so desire to interview them.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Governance Issues: Irish Horseracing Regulatory Board (Resumed) (29 Nov 2023)

Paul Daly: And the number of samples is far greater than the number of horses that would have been tested.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Governance Issues: Irish Horseracing Regulatory Board (Resumed) (29 Nov 2023)

Paul Daly: They are employed on a part-time basis, so they will have other practices. A veterinary surgeon will hardly just be doing part-time work for the IHRB. Are they vets who have their own practices and also do work for the IHRB? Is that is who Dr. Hillyer is referring to when she talks about IHRB-employed vets?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Governance Issues: Irish Horseracing Regulatory Board (Resumed) (29 Nov 2023)

Paul Daly: I was conscious that Deputy Kerrane wanted to get in the last time. I have a number of further questions again on the testing side of things and for Mr. O'Loughlin. What is IHRB's annual budget? What is its spend in a given year or what is the overall budget?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Governance Issues: Irish Horseracing Regulatory Board (Resumed) (29 Nov 2023)

Paul Daly: What percentage of that would be going towards anti-doping and testing?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Governance Issues: Irish Horseracing Regulatory Board (Resumed) (29 Nov 2023)

Paul Daly: Lab costs would account for €1.6 million of €11.7 million?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Governance Issues: Irish Horseracing Regulatory Board (Resumed) (29 Nov 2023)

Paul Daly: As Dr. Hillyer said, there are then the boots on the ground. Regarding out-of-competition testing and calling into stable yards, I have heard of instances where there have been inspections in stable yards with a couple of vet's assistants present and no samples have been taken. What would that cost approximately, per annum or per visit? What are they looking for if they do not take samples?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Governance Issues: Irish Horseracing Regulatory Board (Resumed) (29 Nov 2023)

Paul Daly: It could cost the better part of €2,000 per visit.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Governance Issues: Irish Horseracing Regulatory Board (Resumed) (29 Nov 2023)

Paul Daly: I have heard of out-of-competition checks in yards where no sampling was done. What were they looking for when they went in initially, at that expense? That does not factor in the lab costs, if a sample is taken, which brings us back to what Mr. O'Loughlin said was the IHRB's biggest expenditure. Basically, what I am asking is if you are getting value for money here.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Governance Issues: Irish Horseracing Regulatory Board (Resumed) (29 Nov 2023)

Paul Daly: There is a difference then between an out-of-competition test and an inspection?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Governance Issues: Irish Horseracing Regulatory Board (Resumed) (29 Nov 2023)

Paul Daly: Are inspections by appointment or notified in advance, or can the inspectors just arrive?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Governance Issues: Irish Horseracing Regulatory Board (Resumed) (29 Nov 2023)

Paul Daly: They arrive unannounced for inspections.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Governance Issues: Irish Horseracing Regulatory Board (Resumed) (29 Nov 2023)

Paul Daly: Is there a need for a vet on an inspection where sampling will not be done?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Governance Issues: Irish Horseracing Regulatory Board (Resumed) (29 Nov 2023)

Paul Daly: Have there been vets present at such inspections?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Governance Issues: Irish Horseracing Regulatory Board (Resumed) (29 Nov 2023)

Paul Daly: Why would a vet be present if you are not going to do sampling and there is no requirement for a vet if you are not doing sampling?

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