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Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (3 Sep 2015)

Pearse Doherty: Of the Irish banks.

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (3 Sep 2015)

Pearse Doherty: The question is, what was the market perception at that time? So, you say that about mid-2007, you felt that something was up with the markets, obviously.

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (3 Sep 2015)

Pearse Doherty: What was the perception? What were people saying? What were traders saying to you, people that would normally lend to banks?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (3 Sep 2015)

Pearse Doherty: From your day-to-day dealings with the capital markets, was there any distinction being made between various financial institutions or various Irish financial institutions or were they all being treated as a block?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (3 Sep 2015)

Pearse Doherty: Okay. In the deals that you were making, you were carrying out, was there no conversations in relation to how they perceived your bank via Anglo, via Bank of Ireland, via AIB? You know, was there none of that conversation going on?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (3 Sep 2015)

Pearse Doherty: One of the things, one of the issues we have come across in the banking inquiry is this quote about "No Dublin trades", with a suggestion basically that Ireland was being locked out of the capital markets, that this was a direction that was given. Did you ever come across any evidence of a blanket block on deals with Irish banks? Did you ever hear any sense of that "No Dublin trades" in the...

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (3 Sep 2015)

Pearse Doherty: Yes.

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (3 Sep 2015)

Pearse Doherty: Okay. So you have, kind of, no specifics of any conversations whatsoever. Like, you know, I'm looking ... I'll go back to the e-mail that we were referring to there. Again, on page 11 - and we have this as documentary evidence - where it talks about, "One of our Canadian Holders said that she has been informed out of London that we [ILP] in Irish Life and Permanent are the next Northern...

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (3 Sep 2015)

Pearse Doherty: Yes.

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (3 Sep 2015)

Pearse Doherty: Right.

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (3 Sep 2015)

Pearse Doherty: Okay, but you're not aware of it. Obviously, you spoke to people who were speaking to hedge funds.

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (3 Sep 2015)

Pearse Doherty: Yes, but the key thing I'm trying to find from here, from your experience in treasury, is was Ireland Ireland? So that means every financial institution in Ireland or was there a different ... were people sophisticated enough to look and say, "Well, we actually think, hypothetically-speaking, that Anglo Irish Bank's model is one that we do not understand [to borrow a quote from the NTMA] so,...

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (3 Sep 2015)

Pearse Doherty: -----just, in your understanding, was it just Ireland was, kind of, a no-go area for some.

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (3 Sep 2015)

Pearse Doherty: Mr. Gantly, we heard evidence that the main reason-----

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (3 Sep 2015)

Pearse Doherty: -----the main reason decided by rating agencies for downgrading Irish banks was because of the dominant business model shared by the main Irish banks, that is, commercial and residence property loans funded through large degrees through wholesale markets that were mired in a sustained credit crunch. Would you have come across this perception in your day-to-day dealings? Was this or was this...

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (3 Sep 2015)

Pearse Doherty: Yes, by people that you dealt with externally.

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (3 Sep 2015)

Pearse Doherty: Okay. Finally, can I ask you in relation to bondholders and the debate that has been going on and we have discussed this in the inquiry as well in relation to the burning of bondholders, what was the view, to the best of your knowledge, or were you aware of the view of people in the market as to whether, for example, subordinated bondholders should have been burned or whether senior...

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (3 Sep 2015)

Pearse Doherty: You are not sure on what?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (3 Sep 2015)

Pearse Doherty: Yes.

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (3 Sep 2015)

Pearse Doherty: I think we can all agree with that.

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