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Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2024: Tusla - the Child and Family Agency (2 Oct 2025)

Paul McAuliffe: The direct question I am putting to both bodies is whether they believe that by increasing supports for foster care parents, it will reduce the cost of and reliance on residential placements and communal placements. The answer on the Tusla side is very clearly “Yes”. That is my direct question to the Department.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2024: Tusla - the Child and Family Agency (2 Oct 2025)

Paul McAuliffe: No. Let us be clear. The CEO said there was a limited placement in regard to special care arrangements, but she was very clear in relation to residential placements that it would have an impact.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2024: Tusla - the Child and Family Agency (2 Oct 2025)

Paul McAuliffe: Many TDs, when they were supporting those additions to the programme for Government, would have been doing it from the perspective of compassion for the foster parents. What is very clear from this discussion is that it is also an immediate value for money issue for the State.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2024: Tusla - the Child and Family Agency (2 Oct 2025)

Paul McAuliffe: It is the allowance and supports. I accept that.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2024: Tusla - the Child and Family Agency (2 Oct 2025)

Paul McAuliffe: Both require resources. We have to move away from the reliance on these residential units towards a foster care system that works. The only people in the room who can do that are Tusla and the Department.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2024: National Treatment Purchase Fund
Financial Statements 2023: Beaumont Hospital Board
(9 Oct 2025)

Paul McAuliffe: What security does it give that it is not for work that should otherwise be carried out in the context of core activity?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2024: National Treatment Purchase Fund
Financial Statements 2023: Beaumont Hospital Board
(9 Oct 2025)

Paul McAuliffe: What level of detail is on the invoice to ensure it is not core activity?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2024: National Treatment Purchase Fund
Financial Statements 2023: Beaumont Hospital Board
(9 Oct 2025)

Paul McAuliffe: That is useful. The NTPF checks that the person is on the waiting list. Does it check how long the person has been on the waiting list?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2024: National Treatment Purchase Fund
Financial Statements 2023: Beaumont Hospital Board
(9 Oct 2025)

Paul McAuliffe: Does the NTPF check whether there are disproportionate waiting times for particular cohorts of patients or for particular procedures in one hospital over another?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2024: National Treatment Purchase Fund
Financial Statements 2023: Beaumont Hospital Board
(9 Oct 2025)

Paul McAuliffe: What I am trying to get at is in a situation involving three hospitals, for example, does the NTPF looking for trends where core work may be being done outside of it? I am trying to get to the bottom of that. There is clearly an issue here in that there is a concern that core work may be done under NTPF-funded activity. The witnesses would accept that it would be an inefficient use of its...

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2024: National Treatment Purchase Fund
Financial Statements 2023: Beaumont Hospital Board
(9 Oct 2025)

Paul McAuliffe: Hospital management also has a responsibility to treat patients and to use all available resources to ensure that it carries out its activity.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2024: National Treatment Purchase Fund
Financial Statements 2023: Beaumont Hospital Board
(9 Oct 2025)

Paul McAuliffe: I would argue that the NTPF is the body that is accountable to us to ensure that the money for which it is responsible is used efficiently.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2024: National Treatment Purchase Fund
Financial Statements 2023: Beaumont Hospital Board
(9 Oct 2025)

Paul McAuliffe: That is examined as part of the application process.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2024: National Treatment Purchase Fund
Financial Statements 2023: Beaumont Hospital Board
(9 Oct 2025)

Paul McAuliffe: The follow-on from that is that it is done on an individual application basis. Is there any retrospective audit that seeks to identify a trend? Initiatives might be justified, for example, in one case or another, but is there any attempt to identify whether there is a trend for a particular procedure or specialty or geographic location?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2024: National Treatment Purchase Fund
Financial Statements 2023: Beaumont Hospital Board
(9 Oct 2025)

Paul McAuliffe: Yes. Where is all that data contained, managed, published and collated?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2024: National Treatment Purchase Fund
Financial Statements 2023: Beaumont Hospital Board
(9 Oct 2025)

Paul McAuliffe: In the context of all of the data that has been spoken about, namely the application, the audit of the relevant data and the management information that the NTPF collates, the difficulty for us is that we are trusting that what we are discussing is taking place. Is there any data source that I can look at to ensure that what the witnesses say about the applications phase is visible?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2024: National Treatment Purchase Fund
Financial Statements 2023: Beaumont Hospital Board
(9 Oct 2025)

Paul McAuliffe: I would argue that whether it is the applications, an audit or a summary of the process, the best way to support the argument that core work is not being double-funded, as such, is to demonstrate that by means an audit of the NTPF-funded hours and how the applications are assessed on a generalised basis. As a member of the Committee of Public Accounts, that is my biggest question, and I do...

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2024: National Treatment Purchase Fund
Financial Statements 2023: Beaumont Hospital Board
(9 Oct 2025)

Paul McAuliffe: That is useful. The NTPF might come back to the committee on it. I want to ask a question about nursing homes. We had a number of hearings regarding very significant concerns. I see a gap in the system here, where, essentially, the NTPF establishes the price, the HSE procures the service and HIQA establishes the minimum standards. A clear failure to deliver was evident in some of the...

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2024: National Treatment Purchase Fund
Financial Statements 2023: Beaumont Hospital Board
(9 Oct 2025)

Paul McAuliffe: For the purposes of the report we will be producing on that issue, is Mr. Flood saying that other than establishing the price, the NTPF has no other role in ensuring value for the procurement because it is not responsible for it?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Local Government and Heritage: Multiple Unit Developments: Discussion (14 Oct 2025)

Paul McAuliffe: I thank the witnesses for being here. I have met them on a number of occasions and I thank them for the work they have done. Will Mr. Montague tell me how much public money will be dispensed under the apartment defects scheme?

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