Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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During the 1960s, young boys suffered horrific daily sexual abuse at the hands of former Christian Brother, Seán Drummond, at Creagh Lane national school in Limerick. Some of the survivors of that abuse are in the Public Gallery this afternoon. I welcome David Phayer, John Boland, Tom Hogan, Ger Smyth, Christopher Rainbow and Thomas Hogan. Tá fáilte rompu. These men were failed catastrophically as children and treated appallingly as survivors. For years, they had to fight the State for recognition, justice and full compensation. They were locked out of redress for years. Even following the landmark Louise O'Keeffe judgment by the European Court of Human Rights in 2014, they were still prevented from accessing compensation. This was because they had not made a prior complaint of sexual abuse to authorities, even though their abuser was convicted in open court five years earlier. They had endured a lengthy Garda investigation which required them to relive the abuse and trauma they had suffered as children, yet the State Claims Agency and the defendants persisted in challenging the survivors.

The anguish for these men did not end there, because later it emerged that Drummond wrote a confession letter, dated as far back as February 1970, in which he admitted abusing pupils in Creagh Lane school. Correspondence showed that the Christian Brothers in Dublin and Rome were fully aware of the abuse committed by Drummond, but the confession letter was concealed. It was never given to the survivors. The investigation, the criminal case and the survivors' civil cases were conducted without this key piece of evidence. The confession letter itself constituted a prior complaint. Had it been disclosed, the men would not have had to fight until 2021 to access compensation. The concealment of Drummond's confession letter resulted in further pain, trauma and years of unspeakable distress for these survivors.

We should not lose sight of what these men went through as children. John Boland spoke of the horrors endured. He said: "You'd be called up to the front of the class for some reason or another, [he] would put his cloak around you and start interfering with you." John told of a full school year hoping just to get through the days without being molested. Creagh Lane national school should have been a safe place for children but Seán Drummond turned it into a living nightmare. Tá íospáirtigh Creagh Lane ag troid ar son ceartais agus cúiteamh iomlán le blianta fada. Theip ar an Stát iad a chosaint. Tá sé in am an rud ceart a dhéanamh faoi dheireadh do na fir seo, atá tar éis fulaingt an oiread sin.

In 2018, the Taoiseach described the State's treatment of survivors like those from Creagh Lane as extraordinary, cruel and insensitive. Many of the men are now in their 60s. Some have died without seeing full justice and it is now finally time to do right by them. They have asked me to put some questions to the Taoiseach. Will he support the establishment of an independent investigation into the concealment of this letter and whether State agencies knew of its existence? Will he commit to the survivors that they will now finally be paid all of the compensation owed to them? These men have fought for years and they should not have to fight another single day more.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Deputy for raising this matter. I appreciate that the survivors of the horrific abuse perpetrated by Seán Drummond are in the Gallery today. I was not aware that they would be here today or that the issue would be raised but, notwithstanding that, there is no question that the trauma experienced by them and others as a result of the heinous acts of this individual, Seán Drummond, and indeed many others in previous years in our schools and across other areas of society, has been truly traumatic and has had a life-changing impact on the people abused and on survivors.

There is a shocking history of child sexual abuse in this country and there has been in many institutions. As the Deputy knows, the report of the scoping inquiry into historical sexual abuse in day and boarding schools run by religious orders was published in 2024. It recognised the significance of the issues for survivors, the issue of redress as well, and their expressed wish that those running the schools, in this case the Christian Brothers, where child sexual abuse happened should be held accountable - not just held accountable in terms of what happened but held accountable financially. An interdepartmental group was established on foot of the scoping inquiry report, to each recommendation of that report. The interdepartmental group recognised that there were far-reaching implications, so there is a lot of detailed work under way now, as the Deputy knows. It is examining mechanisms that may be brought to bear to ensure that those responsible for the schools where sexual abuse took place meet their obligations to survivors. It aims to complete its work by May 2027 and will make a report to the Minister, based on which the Government will give consideration to that.

While I appreciate the specifics of this case, there could be many more involved. The issue for Government more generally is to try to look at this comprehensively in terms of all issues that may arise in the context of the work of that interdepartmental group. That said, I was not aware of the confession letter of Seán Drummond, which the Deputy outlined. I would like to get more background on that and to see what is the best way to take it from here in respect of the specific issue of an independent investigation into why that letter did not appear before now. That is where we are right now in relation to it.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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Seán Drummond received a sentence of two years and he served five months. These men - not just them, but their entire families - serve a life sentence on account of this abuse. The worst thing about it, of course, is that they were faced down so viciously by the State. Even when Louise O'Keeffe won, the State still faced them down. The information that then subsequently emerged was that a letter of confession had been written in February 1970. This demon had conceded and had confessed to the abuse he had carried out on these innocent children. That letter was concealed from the survivors and they want to know who knew about this letter. I think this is a matter of the utmost seriousness. There has to be a comprehensive investigation of this matter. Furthermore, full compensation is due to these men, as is their right. Nothing takes away the pain, nor ever will, but they have to be fully compensated. Will the Taoiseach agree to both of those because that is why they are with us in the Gallery today?

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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As far as I can see, this is new information in respect of this letter. Was this a confession letter written to the Garda at the time or to whom? I am not sure as to who, but we can discuss that.

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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That is a rhetorical question.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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I will take this further, and I will examine this. To be fair, I did not anticipate that this would be raised this afternoon, but I certainly will take the issue the Deputy raised in respect of this letter that written by Seán Drummond in the 1970s further and see how best to examine and deal with that. As I said, there is an interdepartmental group, but I will reflect on this and discuss it with the Minister for education and others in respect of this specific case.

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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I welcome all the visitors in the Gallery, in particular the victims. They are most welcome.

Deputies:

Hear, hear.

Holly Cairns (Cork South-West, Social Democrats)
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Schools are closed, teachers are on leave and families are on holidays. Incredibly, I have to ask the Taoiseach if the Department of education knows that. If it does, why did it choose this week to announce a whole new application process for special class and special school places for the 2027-28 school year? Parents and schools only found out yesterday. To add insult to injury, the portal closes on 1 September. We all know that so many parents rely on teachers to help them with these hugely complicated applications, yet the Department somehow expects them to do that by the first week back to school. The circular says the Department will have a targeted communications strategy to reach out to parents over the summer and that it wants schools to "assist" it in doing so, even though, I repeat, schools are closed.

We also learned yesterday that, for the first time, children's student support plans will be used to help determine eligibility for a place in a special class. Currently, these plans are created by teachers to support children in their existing classes. They are not supposed to be the determining factor in whether a child can access a special class or not. The fear now is that the Government is changing the eligibility requirements for special classes by stealth. Last December, the Minister, Deputy Foley, announced that assessment of need would no longer be required to access special classes or special schools. Now, we have a hint of what may be coming down the line, namely, reports created by teachers as learning and support aids for children replacing psychological reports, placing huge pressure on teachers who, instead of writing a report on how best to support a child in their own classroom, will know that what they write could be the difference between that child getting a special class or not. This massive change in policy is being slipped through quietly in a circular during the summer break.

In all fairness, I have to ask about the carelessness in the way in which this Government consistently treats special education and the level of disrespect being shown to families and school communities. Will the Taoiseach explain why this announcement was made when schools are closed? Will he do now what will inevitably be done later and postpone the closure of the portal until at least October? Can he confirm that this Government is changing the eligibility criteria for special classes and schools?

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy's portrayal of the Government's position on special education is wrong and does not accord with the facts. We have expanded provision for special education year after year, and we continue to do so, with thousands of more places, hundreds of extra special classes, new special schools, thousands of additional special needs assistants, SNAs, and additional special education teachers. The numbers speak for themselves. It is not credible for the Deputy, notwithstanding the trauma and pressure that parents are under, to portray a picture of a Government that is not engaging with special education, because we are. The figures speak for themselves. The number of extra teachers and SNAs all speak for themselves. Last year, we brought it forward to 1 October, correctly, because it was too late in previous years. The result was a dramatic increase in the numbers applying. Applications were received from about 7,860 children for a special placement for September 2026. That is more than twice the number who did so ahead of the 2025 school year. Bringing the date forward was effective and impactful, resulting in a substantial increase in the allocation to education to cater for the additional needs in terms of special classes. About 580 new special classes have opened as a result of that initiative last year. There are 60 new inclusive special classes and so forth.

In relation to 1 September, there has already been huge engagement from parents. Parents are engaging with the portal. Again, that will facilitate earlier planning and earlier provision to make sure we can get as much as we possibly can done before the school year. There has not been a change of policy in respect of the circular that issued. The Department is seeking information, which is something that should always be done. The Deputy is now saying the date should put back. In many respects in the previous year, the information was coming in too late to organise the new special classes and provision. Bringing it forward has enabled us to do an awful lot more this year, for the current school year, than we would have been able to do in previous years. A very significant additional €646 million on top of the allocated Estimate to education was given by the Government in response to the increased demand. In total now, there will be about 4,200 special classes operating in mainstream schools next year. That is an increase of about 130% since 2020. Our objective is that every child will receive a special school placement by September.

Holly Cairns (Cork South-West, Social Democrats)
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I do not know how the Taoiseach can stand up in here and say there is not a change when this is very clearly a huge change for schools, teachers and students, without engagement with them, without understanding of the impact and, seemingly, without even understanding the school calendar. If it were not so serious, it would be comical. The Government has failed to provide school places for hundreds of children, attempted to slash the number of SNAs in school and botched the roll-out of the summer provision, and the Taoiseach stands up here and tells everybody that things are going great. Given that schools are closed now, people thought they might get a break from this kind of mess, but no, here we are again.

I will ask the other two questions that the Taoiseach did not answer again. Why was this announced when the schools are closed? Will the Government postpone the closure of the portal until at least the first week in October?

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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Thousands of additional places were secured last year. Where-----

Holly Cairns (Cork South-West, Social Democrats)
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Will the Taoiseach answer the questions?

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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Sorry, I am answering the questions but the Deputy is making false assertions.

Holly Cairns (Cork South-West, Social Democrats)
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I am not-----

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy is.

Mary Butler (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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She is.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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She keeps with her feigned horror and all the rest of it. It is a feigned kind of presentation.

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Please, allow the answer without interruption.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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We are involved with parents. We have all been involved-----

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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The Deputies were not interrupted.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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-----in special education.

Rory Hearne (Dublin North-West, Social Democrats)
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The Taoiseach knows all about-----

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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We know about it. The Deputy is not the only person who knows about special education. We all know about it because we all go about our work. I know about it. I have known it for a long time.

Holly Cairns (Cork South-West, Social Democrats)
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It is not all about the Taoiseach. It is about-----

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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We will have one voice and the Deputy has had her time.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy Cairns made it about me. She made it about us. She made the remarks. It is a serious issue. It was the Deputy who started throwing them out again, not concentrating and focusing on the actual key point.

Ruth Coppinger (Dublin West, Solidarity)
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The Taoiseach is being very defensive.

Holly Cairns (Cork South-West, Social Democrats)
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Answer the question.

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Respect the Chair.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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There is ongoing engagement by the NSCE and the Department with schools and parents. There was a dramatic-----

Holly Cairns (Cork South-West, Social Democrats)
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Engagement when the schools are closed, is that it?

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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In the past two years alone, there have been 2,000 additional special classes.

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Thank you, Taoiseach. Your time is up.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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Come on, acknowledge the expansion that has occurred.

Eoin Hayes (Dublin Bay South, Social Democrats)
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We are talking about this year, not last year.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy is incapable of acknowledging it.

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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I call Deputy Bacik.

Ivana Bacik (Dublin Bay South, Labour)
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My deepest sympathies are with the family of Jamey Carney, the Killarney-based women into whose death local gardaí are preparing to open a murder investigation. We note that a man has been charged with the murder of Adina Raluca Constantin who died after an assault in Laois on Saturday. Our thoughts are with their families, friends and communities as they reel from that brutal and tragic news.

As of yesterday, the number of women killed violently in Ireland this year has overtaken the figure for the whole of 2025 in just seven months. Rich, full lives have been extinguished. Families have been deprived of mothers, sisters and daughters. Communities have been deprived of family, friends, colleagues and neighbours. It has become a cliché to describe violence against women as an epidemic and fatal violence against women as femicide but that is the reality.

Women’s Aid tells us that one in three women has experienced domestic violence in some form. Domestic violence is lived, endured and survived by women every day but, tragically, as we see, sometimes women do not survive. Almost 90% of women murdered in Ireland in recent decades were killed by a man who was known to them. Domestic violence kills and study after study shows that the behaviour of coercive control increases the risk of fatal violence.

We know the patterns that exist so our national response has to become something more than ritualised shock after the fact. We must have a concerted strategy to stop perpetrators of this horrific violence and to close the policy gaps into which victims are falling. We cannot continue to tolerate the intolerable.

There is much we can do but I want to ask about one policy in particular. Front-line organisations, like Women's Aid, tell us that financial insecurity and the housing crisis are trapping women and children in violent homes. They simply cannot afford to leave and they have nowhere to go. Their abusers know this. Labour has proposed a €3 million safe fund to provide fast financial support for those who need an escape route. Administered by Women’s Aid, it would not be means tested.

Just weeks ago, I raised the epidemic of violence against women and girls with the Taoiseach and I did so in the context of a number of policy calls, including establishment of this safe fund. He gave me a welcome reply, saying he would ask the line Ministers to engage with us to explore how to ring-fence funds for this proposal. He said he was open to constructive engagement but we have heard nothing since then and we know budget negotiations are already under way. A safe fund cannot resolve the deeply embedded misogyny that exists in Irish society but if it can save a life or protect one woman, or one child, from the torment of domestic violence, it will be worth doing.

Can the Taoiseach confirm whether he plans to bring our proposal to Cabinet? Will we see a safe fund for women in this year’s budget? If not, could we have a timeline for this necessary change? It would not be hugely costly but it would be something that could have a huge impact on the lives of vulnerable women and children.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Deputy for raising this issue. The loss of life and the murder and killing of women is shocking. As the Deputy said, a large percentage of women are killed by people known to them. The horrific killings of Jamey Carney and of Adina Raluca Constantin in Portlaoise are quite shocking and the numbers are not going in the right direction in terms of the continued extreme violence that is occurring.

There is a societal response required, more generally. Obviously, there will be investigations in respect of the most recent killings and those who committed these crimes need to be brought to justice. More broadly speaking, we are supportive of any measure that would help women who are victims of continuing domestic violence. There does need to be a far greater degree of flexibility in housing policy, for example. The Minister for housing has, since the Deputy last raised this issue, updated Cabinet in respect of measures to transfer time in social housing between local authorities to facilitate women to leave where they are and to go another location but also to develop protocols with local authorities in respect of how women in circumstances of domestic violence can avail of housing, the provision of safe houses and, of course, additional refuge spaces. Cuan, the new agency the Government established for domestic violence, is leading that.

I will speak to the Ministers concerned in terms of the Deputy's proposal around the safe fund; it is not a huge amount of money. We would have to engage with the organisation in terms of the specifics of that. We want to make sure there is a programme of additional refuge places and safe houses. Also, in every local authority allocation, there should be a reserve held to facilitate women fleeing domestic violence. I will ask the Ministers for housing and justice again to talk to the Deputy in respect of the specifics of what she has put forward. I favour as broad a degree of flexibility as possible to facilitate women who are under the constant threat of either coercive control or violence in any shape or form that might take. We have to provide opportunities for people to flee that violence, to leave it behind them and to take that decisive step. I will leave it at that for the time being.

Ivana Bacik (Dublin Bay South, Labour)
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I thank the Taoiseach for that substantive and positive response. I do appreciate that and I appreciate the Taoiseach's indication he will engage seriously on this issue. Clearly, there is more to be done also on the provision of refuge spaces and on local authority allocation rules.

It is regrettable that during yesterday’s debate on the Istanbul Convention, we saw an insufficient number of TDs who were scheduled to speak show up for the debate. The debate collapsed and that is unfortunate in a national emergency. It is an emergency not just in this jurisdiction but across this island. We have seen some shocking figures also in the North, so public representatives need to treat it seriously. Again, I thank the Taoiseach for his engagement.

Of course, we all know that women and children should not be forced to flee their homes. We need to develop a means of ensuring that it is perpetrators who are removed from their homes, and speedily. However, we also appreciate that in an emergency, victims need support to flee and to escape violence. Freedom from violence should not be a luxury.

I thank the Taoiseach for his commitment, in principle, to a safe fund of this nature. The details can certainly be discussed and clarified but the support of Government, in principle, is vital. Can I ask that we might see funds allocated in this year's budget?

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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Again, I thank the Deputy for raising this. I should have referenced that the Minister for Social Protection, Deputy Dara Calleary, has announced the introduction of domestic violence travel supplement. The Deputy is probably aware of that.

Ivana Bacik (Dublin Bay South, Labour)
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Yes.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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It was announced since the last time the Deputy raised this. That is an important additional measure. Broadly speaking, we have a significant issue more generally in terms of the level and scale of violence and attitudes. In particular, and separate from the murders that occurred, access to violent pornography, for example, by young males is an issue as well, which could be creating an environment that is leading to the kind of shocking levels of violence perpetrated against women. We need to look at this more broadly, which we are doing, but we have to continue to look at what is the most effective way to change the societal context of all of this.

Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, Solidarity)
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I will start by paying tribute to the Creagh Lane abuse survivors who have had to fight tirelessly, although they should not have had to, for justice in the face of a conspiracy by the church and a cover up and absolute obstruction by the State.

Tonight, TDs will have an opportunity to ban the barbaric practice of hare coursing; to join the North and the rest of Europe in saying that terrorising animals is not entertainment or sport; to stop thousands of Irish hares being captured from the wild every year, crammed into crates and then into enclosures with other hares despite them being solitary animals; and to then make them run for their lives from dogs that are ten times their size and with hares being pinned to the ground, thrown into the air and killed every single year. We know that many Fianna Fáil TDs have told constituents that they are opposed to hare coursing and want to vote against it.

What is the Taoiseach's position? Is he personally in favour of hare coursing? Does he think it is okay to torture wild animals for fun or for gambling? Will he let his TDs vote with their consciences or is this a case of Fianna Fáil running with the hares and hunting with the hounds; saying one thing to one audience and then doing another thing?

A new poll published this morning confirms the vast majority of people right across this country are opposed to hare coursing. We know there is no urban-rural divide on this issue despite what the tiny minority of people who enjoy torturing animals try to make out. There is a troubling part of the debate on this issue so far which needs to be cleared up before TDs vote tonight.

In the debate on Thursday, the Minister of State, Deputy Niall Collins, said, "In 2022, an independent economic analysis estimated that coursing contributed approximately €70.7 million annually to the Irish economy." The same figure was repeated on the airwaves by other Fianna Fáil TDs and by the Irish Coursing Club. This, however, is a very elusive report, shyer than the hare itself. It was supposedly done in 2022 but was not mentioned literally anywhere until last week. Parliamentary questions were asked in 2025 and this report was never mentioned. When asked by The Journal, the Irish Coursing Club refused to provide this report, supposedly because it has to be presented to the club's members first - four years after it was written. So, we have a report, apparently produced in 2022, with an unbelievable finding of a value of over €70 million for hare coursing, which conveniently has not been published in four years, so nobody can actually scrutinise it. It is all a bit mysterious, would the Taoiseach not agree? Has he seen this report? Does he agree that if it exists at all, it needs to be published before the vote so that TDs can assess for themselves the supposed economic benefit of continued cruelty and barbarism towards Irish hares?

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Deputy for raising the issue. In the first instance, each political party has its own rules in respect of a vote of conscience. In the Government parties' situation, it is in respect of human life issues. That is well known. Across the political system, parties vote in accordance with internal debates and under the Whip system. That is the position. Coursing is regulated significantly more tightly here as a result of previous legislation. The post-ban experience in Britain and Northern Ireland witnessed a rise in illegal hunting and poaching and the need for dedicated police operations. If you over-regulate or introduce a ban, it can lead to worse practices. That is something that has to be factored into this.

More generally, in terms of any change in practice, you do have to bring people with you. I can recall earlier periods in this House when other practices were legislated for and the campaigns that developed around them were far in excess of the specific issue. In other words, people felt that their entire way of life was going to be challenged.

The Animal Health and Welfare Act 2013 has very specific regulatory protections involved, with far greater penalties for violation of the regulations on hare coursing. Regulated muzzled coursing, operated chiefly by the Irish Coursing Club, ICC, exists under a significant overlapping statutory framework: the Wildlife Acts of 1976 to 2018; the Animal Health and Welfare Act 2013; the open seasons order 2005; the Greyhound Industry Act 1958; and the ICC rules, directives and guidance notes. Coursing licences carry 44 separate conditions overseen by the National Parks and Wildlife Service, NPWS. Those coursing meetings are supervised by the NPWS to ensure compliance with those 44 conditions, associated with the section 32 and section 34 licences issued by the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage. A panel of pre-coursing inspectors, selected for hare expertise, inspects every club in advance of a meeting and issues a certificate to courses only where standards are met. There is a monitoring committee involved in the Department of agriculture with the ICC and the NPWS to monitor developments in coursing. The situation is kept under constant review to ensure that this is done in accordance with the law and the regulatory framework that governs it.

Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, Solidarity)
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The Taoiseach says you have to bring people with you, but the people are miles ahead of the politicians on this one. In today's poll, when you exclude the undecided, 74% of people support a ban on hare coursing. In the poll a number of years ago, it was 77%, and higher in rural areas than in urban areas. The problem the people often face is that they have to try to drag the politicians with them because this place remains an outlier compared with society at large, where there is potentially going to be a majority support for hare coursing.

Second, we have heard again and again that this industry is highly regulated. The whole essence of the thing is terrorising hares. It does not have animal welfare at its heart. Despite what a Fine Gael TD tried to suggest in the debate on Thursday, the hares actually do not enjoy it. They are not running for the laugh; they are running because they are utterly terrified by dogs that are ten times their size.

Third, I come back to the question of the report. It is very troubling that in the debate the Government relied on a figure from a report that has not been produced, cannot be analysed and cannot be scrutinised.

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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The Taoiseach to respond.

Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, Solidarity)
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How can people vote when they are told there is €70 million from Irish coursing? That does not make any sense whatsoever.

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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The Taoiseach to respond.

Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, Solidarity)
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They are told it is in a report but they do not have the capacity to analyse that. That is a problem.

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Deputy, the time is up. The Taoiseach has your point.

Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, Solidarity)
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Will the Taoiseach accept that the report needs to be published before a vote takes place?

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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I have not seen the report-----

Ruth Coppinger (Dublin West, Solidarity)
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Nobody has.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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-----and to be frank with the Deputy, the provenance of the report is not something that I have knowledge of. It is not surprising that people would have done studies and analysis on this, but it is more than just economics in any event.

When I referred to bringing people along, I meant there are people in rural Ireland who would have diametrically different opinions or approaches from the Deputy, and there are. That is what I meant about engaging with society on these matters because over time people have felt that their way of life is under sustained attack and threat, no matter how alien it might be to the Deputy's perspective or other people's perspectives. Whether that is justified or not, that is the reality. In many ways these measures can actually create a counter reaction that is far disproportionate to the actual specific issues that have been raised here from time to time. That is a factor in our society, whether the Deputy likes it or not. It ultimately has manifestations that are much broader than the specific issue of hare coursing itself.

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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I thank the Taoiseach. Before we move to Other Members' Questions, I have some people to welcome. In the Visitors Gallery we have relatives of the last political prisoners to be released from British prisons following the conclusion of the War of Independence. In attendance are Linda McManus, Conor McManus, Conor Flood, Dr. Pat McGarty, Vincent Reynolds and Councillor Debbie Coyle. They are visiting today for a briefing hosted by Senator Cosgrove later this afternoon. You are most welcome.