Aindrias Moynihan (Cork North-West, Fianna Fail)
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8. To ask the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform the way in which digitalisation of public services is being managed to enhance service delivery for rural people, taking into account that those with limited broadband access or digital skills will not be left behind; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [40066/26]

Catherine Callaghan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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23. To ask the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform for an update on the inclusion strategy to ensure that no one is left behind by the move to a digital society; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [40754/26]

Aindrias Moynihan (Cork North-West, Fianna Fail)
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In the move to increasingly digitalised services, it is hugely important that people are not left behind, including anybody who is not able to partake of such services. Digital by default cannot mean digital only. There are large numbers of people in different areas who are finding things more and more difficult. Will the Minister of State outline the efforts the Government is making to ensure that everybody is included?

Frank Feighan (Sligo-Leitrim, Fine Gael)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 8 and 23 together.

The Government's better public services strategy commits to delivering inclusive, high-quality and integrated public services that meet people's needs and improve the delivery of services. The Digital Public Services Plan 2030 advances this ambition by embedding a life events methodology whereby services are designed around moments in people's lives, for example, the birth of a child and supporting the bereaved, rather than administrative structures.

With regard to the issues raised, there has been significant progress in digital infrastructure with the roll-out of the national broadband plan, which, I am sure they will agree, has been a huge success, and broadband for schools and related supporting programmes such as the public library strategy. National Broadband Ireland, NBI, has passed almost 460,000 homes, farms and businesses in rural Ireland, with 170,000 connected to high-speed broadband.

Our approach is very clear. We are digital by desire as opposed to digital by default. As part of the service design and delivery, we actively consider the needs of all people, including older people. Part of the dialogue in the Department is to consider the needs of people, including older people and those who are not confident using digital channels. To that end, we examine the use of blended and complementary channels and support, building on the work we are already doing to increase accessibility, for example, through our public libraries network, which is a nationwide service that continues to provide support for digital inclusion and literacy activities at its branches. We are in a much better place when we look at the roll-out of the national broadband service. Deputy Moynihan will see it in his constituency, even in the context of small houses or people working from home. This is the way forward, but we need to include everyone in order that no one will be left behind.

Aindrias Moynihan (Cork North-West, Fianna Fail)
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It is interesting that the Minister of State put a lot of focus on the NBI roll-out across the country. The NBI starts in one place and finishes in another. Guess where the last places are that are getting it? They are located in the area west of Macroom. Our three switches remain to be activated, along with some of the other communities across the country that have yet to get be given access to broadband by NBI. It would be helpful if we could put in an extra push to encourage NBI to finish it out. It is currently working on some of the switches in Dunmanway, Carriganima and Ballingeary. This would be a great example of how we could push to make sure that digital services are available to people. Is it possible to engage with NBI to ensure that we get delivery on the service locally this year?

Frank Feighan (Sligo-Leitrim, Fine Gael)
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We all have issues, and the Deputy has rightly articulated the issue relating to his area being included. If we look at it from a positive point of view, I understand that NBI is ahead of schedule. However, there are a few areas in respect of which we may need to contact NBI. We talk about public infrastructure. This is public infrastructure that is ahead of what was planned for.

Enabling access to public services is very important to the Government as we work together to accelerate transformational change in how we deliver public services. We are trying to digitalise public services and the Department is taking the life events approach, as outlined in the digital public services plan. We want to reorient the service around key moments in people's lives and ensure a more proactive approach by the Government in providing services. All of this is done with inclusion and accessibility as the guiding principles in order to ensure that no one is left behind. The better public services programme involves a clear and explicit commitment to redesigning public services around the needs of users in order to ensure that services work equally well for both people who engage digitally and those who do not. We want to bring in all the stakeholders and try to make things as easy as possible for people across the country, especially older people.

Aindrias Moynihan (Cork North-West, Fianna Fail)
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Will the Minister of State outline the level of co-ordination with the larger stakeholders such as banks, financial services companies and the Department of Social Protection? Unfortunately, across my community, we have had bank branch closures in Dunmanway, Millstreet and Kanturk. In addition, the public counter in the PTSB branch in Macroom has been withdrawn. Just recently, the ATM in Newmarket was removed. This puts extra pressure on people. It pushes some individuals who are not entirely comfortable operating digitally and who would prefer to do their business with a person over the counter. It puts them in a more difficult position. Will the Minister of State outline the co-ordination taking place with banks and financial services companies to ensure that rural communities and people of all ages who may not be comfortable operating in this space, whether it is as a result of literacy issues or the fact that they may not be digital natives, are not left behind?

Frank Feighan (Sligo-Leitrim, Fine Gael)
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It is an interesting question. The Deputy has seen that the Government can consult with banks, but we have a very limited role in that regard. I would like to think that banks would consult with each other. Consider the position of towns where there clearly is no need for two bank branches and both are closed. Instead of talking to each other and saying "Look, we will close our branch in this town and you close yours in the next town", they close both branches. Bank of Ireland could keep its branch in one place and AIB could leave its branch open in another location. There does not seem to be any consultation. If consultation has taken place, it does not, as the Deputy outlined, seem to have taken the needs of the people in rural communities into account.

It is good to see that the credit unions, for which I have a great deal of time, have taken up the challenge and are providing a banking culture and ATMs. The banks were a little hasty. They have their own business models, but I do not think they considered the needs of the people or discussed the matter with each other. Again, I want to pay tribute to the credit unions for stepping up to the plate and providing the services to which I refer.