Mairéad Farrell (Galway West, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

4. To ask the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform to provide an update on overpayments made by the NSSO to former Government Ministers; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [41064/26]

Mairéad Farrell (Galway West, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Have all former Ministers either paid any money owed or set up repayment plans with the NSSO with regard to the pensions overpayment issue?

Jack Chambers (Dublin West, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The National Shared Services Office, NSSO, a body under the aegis of the Department of Public Expenditure, Infrastructure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, provides HR, pension, payroll and finance shared services to Government Departments and offices. As part of its remit, it transacts HR, payroll, pension and finance administration for public and civil servants on behalf of 54 client public service bodies.

In relation to pension and additional superannuation contribution, ASC, contributions for Ministers, Ministers of State, former Ministers and officeholders, a review into the application of the relevant pension schemes and additional superannuation contribution rates was carried out by the NSSO. The review identified 82 individuals where there was an under-deduction or over-deduction of pension and-or additional superannuation contribution. The NSSO has reached agreement with all current Ministers and Ministers of State in relation to payment of pension contributions due. Agreement has also been reached with the majority of former Ministers and other officeholders impacted by the review.

The NSSO is fully committed to ensuring that all moneys owed to the State are fully recouped, with 83% of the moneys owed now paid or in an agreed recoupment plan. It has informed me that there are a small number of outstanding cases where those impacted have yet to commit to a recoupment plan. Engagement is ongoing, with the latest correspondence issued from the NSSO this month.

These matters related to pension and ASC contributions and, in cases such as these, the NSSO adopts a consistent process of engagement to ensure the moneys owed are recovered. The NSSO works with each individual to address the error identified. An independent external audit of the NSSO retirement and pension processes is being overseen by the chair of the advisory board of the NSSO, and I have been told it is nearing completion.

Mairéad Farrell (Galway West, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

To be honest, I assumed the Minister was going to tell me that they had all engaged in a repayment plan. Am I correct that 17% have not engaged in a recoupment plan? I have raised this with the Minister numerous times, and I know he is in agreement with me. However, it is outrageous that 17% would not engage in a recoupment plan. This is a time when, as we were just discussing, people are struggling to make ends meet. Ordinary workers who go out and work every day of their lives cannot pay their bills or their rent. We now have a situation where former Ministers did not engage in a recoupment plan to pay money back into the State coffers, when they know this is the middle of a cost of living crisis and they know they were not due this money. We have been talking about this for months on end. I find it shocking. I genuinely thought the Minister was going to tell me they had all engaged in that recoupment plan.

Jack Chambers (Dublin West, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

As the Deputy knows, given its remit, the wider work of the NSSO is done independently of me. I am not aware of who the current or former Ministers are. The NSSO is trying to progress the remaining number. They all should and must enter into a repayment plan. The NSSO said that the latest correspondence has issued this month. There needs to be full repayment, and I have said that consistently. All current Ministers and Ministers of State have entered into a repayment plan or have fully repaid it, or have been repaid themselves where there was an over-deduction in certain instances. It is important that the remaining number of former Ministers and Ministers of State enter into a repayment plan. I know the NSSO is determined to do that. I am not privy to the correspondence with specific individuals, except to say that the NSSO is progressing work to ensure that people enter specific plans.

Mairéad Farrell (Galway West, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Is the Minister aware of how many former Ministers are in that 17%? My God, this has to undermine public trust and public confidence. If anybody is overpaid anything, they are pursued with legal letters and threatening letters when these things happen through no fault of their own. They are pursued very quickly and in a very difficult way for many people who are not used to dealing with this. We are talking about people who were in a position of power, making decisions over other people’s lives, who now feel they are a class to themselves, and who feel they do not need to engage in the recouping of this money. I understand that the Minister is not aware of each individual case, and that it is done in an independent way. However, can the Minister tell us how many people are involved? This means it is going to be difficult to maintain essential public confidence in public life.

Jack Chambers (Dublin West, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The total number of individuals was 82, which included current and former Ministers of State, officeholders and a small number of civil servants. Some 17% of that is what remains. We know that the cohort relating to current Ministers has been accounted for. I do not have the specifics. What I have been told is that the aggregate miscalculation was €359,000, and that 17%, or €62,000, remains. The vast majority of what was owed has been repaid or is in a recoupment plan. Of the 82 cases identified, 63 are now closed. The NSSO is repeatedly finalising this. Although I do not know, there may be individuals who are getting advice or getting it checked to see what is owed. I do not know the specific interactions that are ongoing because I am not familiar with the individuals, and it is confidential information for any individual. I know the policy and direction of the NSSO is to ensure that where anyone owes anything to the State where there has been an under-deduction, that is fully repaid. It is pursuing and engaging with all of the individuals with respect to that.