Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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Cuirimid fáilte roimh an Teachta Ennis agus an Teachta Kyne sa Teach.

The Minister for foreign affairs has brought draft legislation to the Cabinet which will ban trade in goods from the occupied Palestinian territories. On the Taoiseach's way into the Cabinet this morning, he made it clear that services are to be excluded, so the Government has taken a wrecking ball to the original occupied territories Bill. The Taoiseach is aware that 70% of trade between Ireland and the occupied territories is in services and that the Bill was designed to end the shameful economic support provided to Israel's illegal settlements. Yet, the Government has hollowed out the legislation, rendering it ineffective.

The Taoiseach's argument, that including services is impossible to implement, simply does not stack up. The occupied territories Bill is in line with the ruling of the International Court of Justice, a ruling that makes no distinction between goods and services. In fact, banning services is required under international law. Spain has included services in its legislation, so it can be done.

The occupied territories Bill has a long history. It was passed in the Seanad in 2018 and in the Dáil in 2019 and it continues to enjoy overwhelming public support. The Government has paid it plenty of lip service. For eight years, it has said it will support the occupied territories Bill, but it has stalled, delayed and blocked it, and now it has gutted the Bill. This is the Government's response, its approach, after 14 Irish citizens on a humanitarian flotilla to Gaza were kidnapped, detained and brutalised by Israeli forces. This is the Government's response and approach to the slaughter and genocide in Gaza, as Palestinian men, women and children are wiped out every single day.

It is the Government's response to mass displacement, enforced starvation and the obliteration of civilian infrastructure, all at the hands of a ruthless apartheid regime - a regime gifted impunity by world leaders, including the Taoiseach. Caithfidh seirbhísí a bheith san áireamh sa reachtaíocht ionas go mbeidh sé éifeachtach. Caithfidh an Dáil an bunleagan den Bhille ina iomláine a rith. Ireland should and must be leading on this question. The Taoiseach must make clear that the theft of Palestinian land will not be rewarded with economic support; that Ireland will stand up for human rights and international law; and that Ireland stands with Palestine. Excluding services and pushing forward with hollowed out legislation is a cop-out and a dangerous one. It cannot happen. The people of Palestine, of Gaza, slaughtered, besieged, brutalised and starved look to Ireland for support and we simply cannot turn our backs. Services along with goods must be banned. The sanction must be effective. Either the Taoiseach accepts international law or he does not. Ireland must be on the right side of history. Last week, I wrote to the Taoiseach and I urged him to work constructively with the Opposition to pass the original occupied territories Bill in full. That is what must happen.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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Ní aontaím leis an méid atá ráite ag an Teachta mar tá Éire agus a Rialtas chun tosaigh agus muid ag seasamh suas do na Palaistínigh. Tá sé sin ráite ag na Palaistínigh. Deir Údarás Náisiúnta na Palaistínigh i gcónaí go bhfuil ár dtír chun tosaigh maidir le tacaíocht a thabhairt do na Palaistínigh. I do not accept the Deputy's proposition in terms of how she has distorted the Irish Government’s position in relation to the cause of Palestinian self-determination. From the outset, we have taken a series of measures that have been at the leading edge in terms of any Europe Union's member state's response to the genocide in Gaza, the continued violent behaviour of the settlers in the West Bank, and the continuing war in Lebanon, which is completely unjustified. We recognised the State of Palestine, along with Spain, for example, and Slovenia did so after us, in a broader move to try to get a peace accord going within the Middle East in terms of a Palestinian State. We intervened in the South African case before the-----

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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Eventually.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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-----International Court of Justice in terms of the case there in respect of genocide. We have provided very significant support to Palestinians, up to €146 million up to this year. In terms of UNRWA in particular, we took a leading role in Europe to stem the momentum at the time of taking aid away from UNRWA after Israeli allegations against UNRWA personnel. We held back that momentum and then we doubled down in terms of doubling our own provision of finance to UNRWA itself. We did this consistently in all international forums. The Attorney General has argued before the ICJ in respect of the impacts of the illegal occupation of Palestine. At the United Nations General Assembly, we, of course, sponsored resolutions in terms of seeking to implement the court's advisory opinion.

There is no justification for the assertions Deputy McDonald has made. I know her objective is to sort of attack the Government, sometimes even more than the Israeli Government. That is the objective. In terms of the occupied territories Bill, we need a bit of honesty across the House. We need absolute honesty here. Let us not overstate the impact of this either way.

Seán Crowe (Dublin South West, Sinn Fein)
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Let us water it down.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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My experience has been that as soon as we do something, like we did with the recognition or whatever else, Sinn Féin moves on very quickly and dismisses it.

Denise Mitchell (Dublin Bay North, Sinn Fein)
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It is 35 years.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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That has been the standard practice. First of all, the original Bill could not go through the House because it would not have been legal in terms of how it was framed. In terms of services-----

Conor McGuinness (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
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It is illegal to trade with occupied territories.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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On goods, by whatever yardstick is used, about €200,000 worth of goods - fruit and vegetables - come in from the settlements. That is what comes in.

Services are intangible, as someone described them. It is impossible to implement. Could we have some honesty about that? There is an issue in terms of what will happen if services were included in terms of jobs in this country and potential attacks on multinationals that are based here.

Paul Donnelly (Dublin West, Sinn Fein)
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You just said it. Now you have said it.

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Please, the leader of the Deputies' party will respond.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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That is the reality. People can dismiss that all they want; I do not dismiss it. I have to protect about 250,000 jobs in this country too, and there is a real issue-----

Fionntán Ó Súilleabháin (Wicklow-Wexford, Sinn Fein)
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Scaremongering.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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-----that people are turning a blind eye to in terms of this being something we can do casually to which nobody is going to pay a blind bit of notice. There have been a lot of attacks on Ireland because of the leadership stance we have taken as a Government.

Conor McGuinness (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
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So defend against the attacks.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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We have been out there with Spain more than anybody else in terms of these issues.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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The Irish people have always taken a principled and morally ethical stance on the question of Palestine. Of that there is no doubt. Unfortunately, the Irish Government has not followed suit. The truth and the honest position are that the Government has had to be dragged into taking any kind of positive stance, facing down the impunity of Israel and accepting that until there are consequences for Israel and the Netanyahu regime, they will continue to slaughter Palestinians, they will continue to occupy land and they will continue with their apartheid regime. The only answer is sanctions. That is why the occupied territories Bill matters. It has to include both goods and services. Spain included services, so why on earth can Ireland not? Sanctions are the only thing that will work with Israel - economic, cultural and sporting. The Irish football team should not be playing Israel under any circumstances.

Deputies:

Hear, hear.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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Spain has not included services.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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It has.

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Please allow the response.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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It included the advertisement of services.

Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire (Cork South-Central, Sinn Fein)
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Same thing.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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Different thing completely. We need accuracy here.

Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire (Cork South-Central, Sinn Fein)
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It is the same for EU law.

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Deputy, the rules are that leaders speak.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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Very few countries have gone down this route. Spain and Ireland are going down this route in terms of the banning of goods. We hope Belgium and the Netherlands will follow suit. It looks like Slovenia will not be in a position now because the Government has changed in Slovenia. The Government that has been elected has a completely different issue. It must be at European level if we are to have any impact on Israel. Even at European level, I am trying to be honest with people here, how does one have impact on the Israeli Government, Netanyahu and these people? The bottom line is-----

Paul Donnelly (Dublin West, Sinn Fein)
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Stop the bombs. Stop allowing Shannon to be used.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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That is all rubbish about Shannon and all that nonsense. It has no impact on Netanyahu.

Paul Donnelly (Dublin West, Sinn Fein)
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Really, how do you know? You do not check.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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It is just sloganeering. All that is happening is sloganeering and shallow rhetoric that is devoid of any substance. There are two major powers that could influence Israel. Fundamentally, the US can. Second, maybe, a unanimous European Union position on the EU-Israel Association Agreement. Those are potentially the two ways to get----

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Thank you, Taoiseach. I call Deputy Bacik.

Ivana Bacik (Dublin Bay South, Labour)
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Before I begin, I want to congratulate new the Deputies, Daniel Ennis and Sean Kyne. As a by-election veteran myself, I wish them the very best, although I was elected during Covid so I missed out on the handshakes, hugs and lovely warmth they got.

Recent lay-offs in the tech sector are causing huge stress and anxiety for those receiving redundancy notices, those seeing their colleagues being laid off and the communities affected. My constituency, Dublin Bay South, is home to many tech companies and to the workers who keep them running. Entire communities have been built on the promise of secure, well-paid tech jobs, but this news reminds us of the vulnerability of that model and of our national economy. Meta is cutting 350 jobs here. That proportion of the workforce vastly exceeds global averages. The IT sector here has shed more than 20,000 jobs in the past year alone. How are the tech oligarchs dressing this up? They refer to it as modernisation and flattening teams. That is awful language when they are talking about people's livelihoods and lives. Flattening companies really means throwing staff to the wolves to satisfy shareholders and inflate share prices. Multibillion euro corporations led by Trumpian cheerleaders in Silicon Valley are using AI as cover for years of over-hiring and ruthless cost-cutting. This is AI washing and these companies are showing contempt for the industrial relations mechanisms of the State.

We are seeing this with Covalen, which snubbed an invitation to the Workplace Relations Commission even as it looks to sack 700 people.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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First of all, I want to take the opportunity to welcome Deputies Daniel Ennis and Séan Kyne. I congratulate them on their election and have no doubt they are looking forward to being effective and productive legislators and, of course, diligent representatives of the people who elected them to Dáil Éireann. It is a great day for them and for their families. We hope their families, in particular, enjoy this historic day for the Deputies and for them.

In respect of employment more generally and the impact of AI and the decisions of certain tech companies, overall, we should not lose sight of the fact that our economy is continuing to grow significantly using GNI as our figure. Modified domestic demand is expected to grow by about 2.1% in 2026. It increased by 4.95% last year. Employment has been fairly consistent year on year. The payroll employee index is up 2.2% year on year, and we are close to 2.8 million workers. We have a very robust and resilient employment story made up of the SME sector as well as the multinationals but we can never look at them as an either-or. They are both inextricably bound together.

I was in Dexcom in Galway recently where a factory has been built that will accommodate 1,000 workers by 2028. At the moment, there are 300 workers there. What was interesting is that in an investment of about €300 million, Dexcom procured about €180 million of that locally through the local supply chain, although the figures might vary. In other words, there are lots of smaller companies that are able to plug into the Dexcom investment. I was at a Japanese pharmaceutical facility in Kerry recently and again it was the same story in terms of the clean room technology and laboratories. We now have companies at a calibre that can actually supply into very sophisticated operations.

While we do need to develop our SME sector, work with Enterprise Ireland on high potential start-ups and do better at scaling up companies, quite a lot of Irish companies have scaled up on the backs of having originally won contracts with a big multinational. Take, for example, all the companies that have supplied into Intel in Kildare. I visited the Intel site about two or three years ago in the midst of the next Fab being built. Nearly every Irish construction company was in there, with different companies doing incredible frontier-type solutions for Intel in terms of clean room technology and so on. We do have a healthy ecosystem but we need to invest more on the skills side as it is key to the AI issue. The skills round table, aiready.ie and the national skills observatory the Ministers, Deputies Lawless and Peter Burke, are putting together are a good solid response to what is happening.

Ivana Bacik (Dublin Bay South, Labour)
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I agree with the Taoiseach that it is not either-or. SMEs are certainly the backbone of our economy but what we have seen is an over-dependence on a handful of small tech companies and that is the concern. Yes, of course, there are many SMEs that are working with them and are in the supply chain but the problem, as the Taoiseach said, is the lack of scaling up of SMEs and the lack of investment in indigenous start-ups.

That is a real concern. We need to diversify the economy. It is not just the Labour Party saying this; we have heard it from every expert who has looked at our economy.

There is a particular concern about workers' rights in tech companies. Let us look at the issue of performance improvement programmes, PIPs. These spurious programmes are being used by tech companies to justify redundancies. They are squeezing those PIPs until they squeak. This is what we are seeing. They are using legal loopholes to justify making redundancies. There is an issue about workers' rights in tech companies. At a minimum, what we have called for in the Labour Party, is the introduction of stronger workers' rights protections to force big tech to play fair amid these plans to lay off workers and to expose this issue of AI washing.

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Thank you, Deputy. Your time is up. The Taoiseach to respond.

Ivana Bacik (Dublin Bay South, Labour)
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Tech companies are making huge profits while saying that they need to cut costs.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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There are two dimensions to this. In itself, AI will change the world of work. We should not be blind to that. We need to prepare for it. There is investment in skills, in particular, and thankfully, the International Monetary Fund, IMF, has identified Ireland as one of the top countries in terms of an AI-skilled population and workforce. Equally though, I accept that because of the extraordinary investments some of the global players are making in AI , they are cutting costs in terms of human resources. It may not necessarily all be AI driven. There are certain investment decisions being taken. One of the negative consequences of that is a cutting of labour forces globally, not just in Ireland. We have to prepare for that. We have strong labour protection laws in this country and frameworks that govern any redundancies or situations pertaining to workers' rights. I would not understate the protections that are there.

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Thank you, Taoiseach.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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On the small business front, regulations are a big feedback from the SME sector. They are saying to us that they are over-regulated and need simplification.

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Thank you, Taoiseach. We will move to Deputy Cairns.

Holly Cairns (Cork South-West, Social Democrats)
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I congratulate our new Social Democrats TD, Daniel Ennis, and Fine Gael’s new Deputy, Seán Kyne. I warmly welcome them to this Chamber. Dan is going to be a fantastic addition to our parliamentary party team. We are all so excited to work with him. This is a huge day for Dan, Seán and their families. I welcome their families and supporters to the Gallery. I especially welcome Dan’s mother, Jacqueline, his brother Geoff and his fiancé, Chloe. None of us would be in this Chamber today if we did not have the support of family, friends and party members. These are the people who knock on doors for us and keep us going through the hard times and families who are willing to make enormous sacrifices in order that we can be here. This essential support does not get enough recognition, so I wish to acknowledge it today. I thank our excellent candidate in Galway West, Míde Nic Fhionnlaoich, and everyone who voted for the Social Democrats on Friday.

The front page of the Irish Daily Mail today reveals a shocking figure. The cost of emergency homeless accommodation reached nearly €500 million last year. That is a 570% increase in spending in just ten years. While we can measure the financial cost of soaring homelessness, we cannot measure the human cost. How many babies are struggling to learn to crawl right now because of a lack of space? How many toddlers are experiencing delayed speech development? How many children have become withdrawn or have fallen behind in school? How many of their parents have developed insomnia and depression? How many relationships have broken down because of the constant stress caused by their living conditions? The full extent of the trauma being created by homelessness is something we will never truly know, but we know the negative impact can be lifelong. It affects children’s development, education, mental and physical health, job prospects and relationships.

A stable, secure home is the foundation for a happy life. That basic building block is missing for 17,500 people. This is especially an issue in Dublin Central, where a disproportionate amount of emergency accommodation is located. One tenth of the homeless population of Ireland – 1,700 people – are living on just one street, namely Gardiner Street. Across the constituency, it has been estimated that there are 7,000 people living in homeless accommodation. Has any small area in the country ever had to cope with such a disproportionate level of trauma, unmet need and State failure?

These are people and an area that have been abandoned by successive Governments. They have been left to pick up the pieces of years of Government failure on housing. The response of this Government is not to help or reduce homelessness but to make the situation even worse and introduce new rent rules that have led to record rent increases. We need the Government to recognise that and change course, starting as a matter of urgency with a temporary ban on no-fault evictions and a ban on rent increases. Will the Taoiseach do that?

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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The population increase in the last ten years has been quite phenomenal as well and is having an impact on the housing situation. Migration - and I mean this in a general sense, not casting any aspersions - has had an impact on housing also. One only has to look at the figures now of the people who are non-European or non-Irish in emergency accommodation. It is well over 50%. That is where we are in the modern era. We have to deal with that. We have to help people who find themselves homeless. Of that there is no doubt, but we also need to understand what the drivers of homelessness have been in the past five to ten years.

Daniel Ennis (Dublin Central, Social Democrats)
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Evictions.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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Without question, when you analyse the figures and talk to people, population growth is a key area, but we also need to respond in terms of social housing, for example. We are building more houses in direct builds per annum now than since the foundation of the State. Last year, over 9,000 social houses alone were built. Ultimately, the provision of increased social housing is the best route to dealing with homelessness. No other way will sustainably deal with it.

In addition to that, we are building a lot of affordable homes and giving a lot of support to people in terms of starter homes. Across the board, in terms of housing assistant payment, HAP, and other things, we are giving assistance to people who need to access housing. Without question, the momentum is towards increased house provision. Some 36,000 homes were built last year. We hope to increase that figure for 2026 and probably will. What is interesting is that commencements are up by 176% this year, with about 11,000 commencement notices in the first four months. Real dwelling investment is up by 19% and construction employment is up by 33% since 2020, 10% year on year. That is because of the increased house building that is taking place. There has been a 55% year-on-year increase in terms of land for housing and deals to facilitate housing. The Home Building Finance Ireland, HBFI, loan book is up by 25%.

Whatever metric one is looking at, there are increases happening. The issue is the speed and how we can exit people from homelessness as quickly as possible, and from emergency accommodation in particular. If we do a temporary eviction ban, we will depress supply again. We have been through this. The Housing Commission said that the existing renting situation could not continue and that we had to create a more permanent framework for the rental market to give certainty to all concerned. What the Deputy suggested towards the end of her contribution would actually make the situation worse because supply would be depressed. We need more supply and we need it as quickly as possible. It is interesting that any form of supply we have proposed in the past three months has been opposed by the Social Democrats and by others in the Opposition.

Holly Cairns (Cork South-West, Social Democrats)
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The Taoiseach needs to stop and listen to himself when he comes into this Chamber week after week and tries to spin a positive message on housing when there are 17,000 people homeless, including more than 5,000 children. This is at a time when there are record budget surpluses. The only thing the Taoiseach has changed in his approach is to start blaming migrants for that failure.

Gary Gannon (Dublin Central, Social Democrats)
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Hear, hear.

Holly Cairns (Cork South-West, Social Democrats)
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It is shameful. The Taoiseach talks about every metric and fails to mention the most important metric, which is the increase, month on month, and the records being broken in the number of people becoming homeless. Instead of acknowledging that the approach has failed and changing it, the Government introduced legislation that we all knew would increase evictions and rents, which is exactly what happened. Will the Taoiseach at least acknowledge the staggering increase? The only success the Government has had in terms of homelessness is to normalise it. I do not have any faith in Fianna Fáil to address this crisis and I do not think any of the electorate in either constituency where there was recently a by-election do either.

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Deputy Cairns's time is up. The Taoiseach will respond.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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I do not have any faith in the Deputy’s capacity or her party’s capacity to deal with housing and homelessness-----

A Deputy:

The electorate-----

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Please.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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-----based on what it has produced so far, in terms of the substance of what it has put forward. Soundbites will not build houses. It is good play but it will not build houses. I do not mind having an honest debate on housing but the Deputy consistently fails to acknowledge any progress at all in terms of the social housing issue, for example. There have been 58,000 social houses built in the last five years. That is dramatically better than anything built in the previous ten years, but the Deputy cannot acknowledge that. She cannot acknowledge anything at all. I acknowledge there is a homeless crisis out there. I have said from day one that housing is the number one crisis, but we are doing something about it with concrete policies.

Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, Solidarity)
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The Government is making it worse.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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I have genuinely seen nothing. All I see that the Social Democrats have produced is a savings and investment scheme.

A Deputy:

Not true.

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Allow the Taoiseach to continue.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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That is all it has really come up with.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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That is not going to not solve homelessness today, next year or the year after.

Cian O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay North, Social Democrats)
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Ban evictions and-----

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Deputy, please.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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There is a lot of rhetoric but very little substance on the Deputies' side.

Cian O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay North, Social Democrats)
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Where are the 40,000 homes the Government promised two years ago?

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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The Government is speaking out of both sides of its mouth on the question of sanctioning Israel. It is trying to convey to the public, who want to see sanctions imposed on this genocidal murderous regime, that it is imposing sanctions but in actuality it is doing everything to ensure that no serious sanctions are imposed on the regime. On the same day that 14 Irish people were being kidnapped on the high seas, tortured and abused last week and the Taoiseach was saying publicly that there should be no business as usual with the Israeli regime, he instructed Government TDs to go in and vote against our sanctions Bill, which would actually have imposed comprehensive sanctions on the State of Israel because of its crimes of genocide and apartheid and its systematic violation of international law, the very thing the flotilla activists had asked the Government to do.

We have headlines today saying that the Minister is going to bring forward the occupied territories Bill, something the Government has been promising for a very long time. At the same time, however, that Bill in actuality will gut the original Bill drafted by Frances Black by not including services. So, it will only prevent trade in goods, and maybe not even all goods. Reports in The Ditch in the last week suggest that exports from this country to the occupied territories may actually be 40 times more than are being officially acknowledged by Irish authorities because the Israeli authorities are giving much higher figures for the imports from this country.

In any event, the exclusion of services is 70% of the trade between Ireland and the occupied territories. Of course, the Bill the Government is bringing forward will not impose any sanctions whatsoever on the Israeli state itself. That is providing the support and the means for the Israeli settlers to grab Palestinian territory and annex territory. Israel was orchestrating the genocide in Gaza and is orchestrating the brutal regime of apartheid but the Government is not imposing any sanctions at all on the state that is doing it. Actually, our trade with Israel has dramatically increased over the last number of years, making Ireland the second biggest trading partner with Israel in the world. Will the Government stop the hypocrisy and actually bring forward a Bill that imposes serious sanctions on Israel for its criminal violation of international law, for genocide and for apartheid?

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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I again thank the Deputy for raising it and maybe to some degree with a bit more honesty than others. First of all, let us accept the distinction he has made compared with others. He is not really interested in the occupied territories Bill on its own because it just deals with the illegal settlements. He knows that. All along, he has been shouting about the occupied territories Bill but all along he wanted an Israeli boycott.

Ruth Coppinger (Dublin West, Solidarity)
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We all do.

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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It is not Deputy Coppinger’s question.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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What is wrong with that?

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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Let us be honest about what has happened here. We recognise Palestine and the Deputy moves on quickly. We intervene in the legal case by South Africa and he moves on quickly. We double down on UNRWA and he moves on quickly.

We go to the ICJ and he moves on quickly.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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Yes.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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We do the occupied territories Bill and he moves on quickly and calls for us to boycott Israel.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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Yes.

Ruth Coppinger (Dublin West, Solidarity)
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The Government has not done it yet.

Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, Solidarity)
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Does the Taoiseach want a medal?

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Follow my rules.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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What is after that and after that? There has been no deep analysis,-----

Máire Devine (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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The Taoiseach is a great lad.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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-----and that is the problem. The Deputy has now moved on very quickly.

By the way, we do not have the power, even if we wanted to, to stop trade with Israel right now. That is a European competency and Deputy Boyd Barrett knows that, but he is not interested in that because, as far as he is concerned, the EU can go to pot as well. He is not particularly interested one way or the other. It is about campaigning. It is about attacking this Government. It is not really about trying to explain to people the impacts and implications of all of this. Does the Deputy want to ban trade with Israel?

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Yes.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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Does he want Intel to stop dealing with its sister company in Israel?

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Yes.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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Fine. Talk to the thousands of workers in Ireland working with Intel. What happens there?

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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It would not-----

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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Through the Chair, has Deputy Boyd Barrett worked through the implications of it? Has anyone in the Opposition done an assessment of what it would mean economically?

Deputies:

No.

Máire Devine (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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The Yanks-----

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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Does Deputy Boyd Barrett give a continental if the US goes south because of what we might do there? It is great to be virtuous, Deputy,-----

Donna McGettigan (Clare, Sinn Fein)
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People's lives-----

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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-----but for the workers’ representative, he lacks all virtuosity when it comes to protecting Irish workers. We have to take everything on board and be sensible about it.

At the same time, we have been principled.

Máire Devine (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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Moral.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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We are one of the few European member states that has stood out there. If you talk to the Palestinian Authority, Jordan, Egypt or anyone in the Gulf and the wider Middle East, the first thing they say is, “Thank you to the Irish Government for leading on this”.

Deputies:

Hear, hear.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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But no, the Deputy cannot ever say anything like that because that does not suit the campaign. The campaign for him is an end in itself.

Máire Devine (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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This is so virtuous.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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The campaign is a means to cause further undermining of the Irish Government. He has never campaigned on the same basis against Russia or Iran. He never has despite all that has happened in Iran.

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Please, one voice.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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The campaign here is a deeper issue.

Máire Devine (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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No, it is not.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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For me, I am very clear. We have tried-----

Máire Devine (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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It is moral.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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We all have a moral framework by the way. The Deputies do not have a monopoly on that. We have taken a lead on this. The easiest thing for politicians to do is put the chin up and be great people in sloganeering and rhetoric, but we have a deeper responsibility.

Máire Devine (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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Oh my God, give over.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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We have to protect our national interests and people at the same time.

Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, Solidarity)
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And do what Trump says. Is that the moral thing?

Máire Devine (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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Give over.

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Time is up, Taoiseach. Deputy Boyd Barrett to respond.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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That is the problem. As far as I am concerned, and I said it the last time, it is about finding the most effective way to do this.

Máire Devine (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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The Taoiseach is a great lad altogether.

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Taoiseach, your time is up.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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We either do it in unanimity with the European Union-----

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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I call Deputy Boyd Barrett.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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-----or we get the United States to change tack in terms of its relationship with Israel. Those are the fundamental ways we can change tack.

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Deputy Boyd Barrett will now respond. One voice, please.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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As it was so obvious to the world that a genocidal slaughter was taking place in Gaza and that Israel was inflicting genocide, the Taoiseach was eventually forced to say that he thought a genocide was taking place. I ask the Taoiseach a simple question: do we continue to trade with regimes that are doing genocide and treat them as normal states? Do we just treat them like any other trading or business partner? Do we continue to increase the amount of trade we do with states that are doing genocide and apartheid? Do we, in 2024 in the middle of a genocide, approve €20 million of licences to the IDF, the military force that is committing the genocide in Gaza? That is what the Government did. I say that we do not treat states guilty of genocide as normal states and that we impose sanctions on them.

The Taoiseach is absolutely right; what I want is a complete boycott, divestment and sanctions. At the least, the Government should pass Frances Black’s occupied territories Bill as he promised he would do in the programme for Government. The Government even passed a motion in the Dáil in November last year to that effect.

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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The Deputy's time is up. The Taoiseach to respond.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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We are implementing what we said in the programme for Government. Read the programme for Government. That is exactly what we are now doing. The way to deal with Israel effectively is through the European Union. There is no other way. We have not been able to get agreement across Europe because some countries historically have a position of supporting Israel come what may. The Deputy and I know that.

The Commission is the competent authority in terms of trade with Israel. We have sought to get a suspension of the EU-Israel Association Agreement. Ireland and Spain have been the two countries for well over two years now-----

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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The Taoiseach is saying the Government is going to do it unilaterally. What is he talking about?

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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I am sorry, but the Deputy is interrupting again. For over two and a half years, we have been seeking to suspend that association agreement, but we have not been able to get any support. Only last week, because of Hungary’s change of government, we were able to get sanctions on violent Israeli settlers at a European level. We are now trying to get at least a common European position on the occupied territories, but it is still difficult because the Slovenian Government has now changed with a completely different approach and response.

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Before I move on, I welcome Mary Fitzgerald from the Woodlands House Hotel in Adare and her cousin Shaunna Flynn Black who is back from Texas. They are here as guests of Deputy Richard O'Donoghue.