Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, Solidarity)
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150. To ask the Minister for Housing, Planning, and Local Government if plans by local councils to increase rents for council and HAP tenants reflect the commitment in the Delivering Homes, Building Communities plan to review the rents paid by social housing tenants, or if even more rent increases are planned; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [18049/26]

Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, Solidarity)
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Across Dublin City Council letters are dropping for council tenants and HAP tenants telling them the people least able to afford to pay are going to see massive rent increases of 30% on average. Dublin city renters are getting organised. I saw there was a big meeting last night, a big meeting the week before and a big meeting the week before that. Eoghan Ó Ceannabháin is involved in organising those people. The same is happening in South Dublin County Council in advance of a planned rent rise. The question is whether this is part of national government policy and just the thin end of the wedge that is going to see council and HAP rents rise and rise.

John Cummins (Waterford, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Deputy for the question. Currently, local authorities charge rent under the Housing Act 1966 and this is known as the differential rents system. It is a critical piece of the State's welfare apparatus that subsidises housing costs and supports households who cannot meet their long-term accommodation needs from their own resources. The making or amending of such rent schemes is generally a matter for the executives of local authorities within the broad principles set out by my Department, including that rent levels should be based on income and reflect tenants’ ability to pay and also that they contain a hardship clause under which tenants can pay a reduced rent for a specified period and under certain circumstances. Local authorities should review their rent schemes regularly to ensure they are equitable and appropriate to the household means. The Government’s priority is to accelerate the delivery of social housing, with a significant funding package to support this ambition. It is therefore increasingly important that social housing supports are targeted appropriately and managed efficiently. Central to this is ensuring that the social housing rents charged remain appropriate to household means and that charging structures protect the most vulnerable households, including those with children. The current system of 32 individual rent schemes has its strengths. However, rents can vary widely and disparate approaches mean social tenants on similar incomes can pay significantly different rents for similar properties merely because of the local authority area they reside in. The new housing plan Delivering Homes, Building Communities commits to reviewing rents paid to local authorities and AHBs with a view to introducing a national framework that provides a consistent and equitable system of rents and protects vulnerable households.

Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, Solidarity)
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Can the Minister of State tell me whether, in the national framework the Government is going to work towards, rents are going to come down for any council tenants or are they just going to rise? That is the simple question. The Delivering Homes, Building Communities document is extremely worrying because it suggests moving away from a differential rent-based system in which people's rent is based on their income and what they can afford to pay, which is an extremely fair system. Instead the document refers to the Housing Commission recommendation of "Merging social and cost rental housing over time to form a single affordable rental sector, based on the principle of cost recovery". In other words, it will no longer be based on the principle of how much people can afford to pay but how much it costs to build the homes. That would be an extremely retrograde, regressive step. It would be a move in exactly the wrong direction and would result in even bigger rent increases for those who can least afford to pay.

John Cummins (Waterford, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy asked whether it will result in increased or decreased rents. As I outlined in my initial response there are significant differences in rent schemes from local authority to local authority. Somebody with a given income in one council may be paying more than someone on a similar income in a different local authority area. There is a national framework contained in the housing plan. Options will come forward to the Minister in the second half of this year. Obviously we will look at what the best system and approach is at that point. It is true to say that in some local authority systems, it ranges between 10% and 20% of income and different approaches are taken to secondary earners. We set a broad framework. It is probably appropriate at this point that there be a more streamlined system where local authorities cannot have as broad a range as they have had heretofore.

Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, Solidarity)
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I am not against a streamlined system in principle but I do not think any council tenants are going to believe the Minister of State that the Government is going to streamline this downwards to the lowest levels. Instead, everyone will hear that it is going to streamline this to the highest possible levels. That will mean even more rent increases for people who simply cannot afford to pay. I am telling the Minister of State that council tenants are getting organised in a very significant way. In Dublin City Council it is going to be a massive campaign. It was only lost by one vote. Unfortunately, the Labour Party and the Green Party voted to increase people's rents. We are building a big campaign to reverse that in the next budget. In South Dublin County Council we are a year ahead of where the city council is and we have every chance of stopping this rent increase coming in. Will the Minister of State explain to me what the idea of merging the cost rental and social housing systems would look like? What does it mean to go for it being based on the principle of cost recovery? If the Government implements that, is it not the end of the differential rents scheme?

John Cummins (Waterford, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Deputy. In the premise of his follow-up question, he is determining the outcome of this review. He is stating the outcome of it will be that we will go to the highest rent provided by a local-----

Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, Solidarity)
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Will you promise me you will go lower?

John Cummins (Waterford, Fine Gael)
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I did not interrupt you, Deputy.

Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, Solidarity)
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No, I am interrupting you though.

John Cummins (Waterford, Fine Gael)
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I did not-----

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy Murphy, you should not interrupt.

Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, Solidarity)
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You tell me if you are going to go lower.

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy Murphy-----

Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, Solidarity)
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I am just asking the question.

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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-----address your remarks through the Chair.

Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, Solidarity)
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I would ask the Minister of State whether the Government is going to reduce them.

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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You are out of order. I ask the Minister of State to conclude his answer.

John Cummins (Waterford, Fine Gael)
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Deputy Murphy had an opportunity to make his comments. I am responding to him. He is determining the outcome of the review. I am saying that a review is under way and that proposals will be brought to the Minister in the second half of this year. There are varying discrepancies between some local authorities. I am not determining what the outcome will be. Some local authorities have a higher percentage and some have a lower one. I am not going to determine what the outcome of the review will be until it has been undertaken.