Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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173. To ask the Minister for Finance given that the National Asset Management Agency, NAMA, is due to conclude its affairs and wind down operations by the end of 2025, to outline the arrangements in place to ensure that any unresolved investigations or litigation, particularly those involving significant public funds, are fully pursued; the person or body that will be responsible for ongoing investigations into alleged fraud or irregularities in current cases where matters are still arising, in particular two cases (details supplied); the person or body which will take responsibility for these investigations; if he will commit to a full and thorough investigation into both matters; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [71751/25]

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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My question is about the wind-up of NAMA, which will happen in the next ten days. Who will assume responsibility for ongoing issues, irregularities and other issues, such as court proceedings when NAMA has been wound up? It will happen by 31 December. That is only ten days away. Will the Tánaiste make a statement on the matter?

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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As the Deputy noted, NAMA is on track to substantively conclude its operational wind-down by the end of this year. NAMA completed its final surplus payment of €450 million to the Exchequer as recently as yesterday, 17 December 2025. In total, NAMA has now contributed €5.6 billion to the State. This contribution has included cash transfers, corporation tax payments as well as significant assets transferred to the Land Development Agency, LDA, earlier this year, comprising social housing and strategic lands with the potential to deliver up to 4,500 homes.

The conclusion of IBRC special liquidation and dissolution of NAMA Bill, when enacted, will finalise the phased and orderly wind-down of the agency. Priority drafting of the Bill was approved on 2 July 2024 and is currently at an advanced stage.

The experience of other workout vehicles internationally has shown that some residual activity, including litigation, would remain after NAMA's core work had concluded. The need to ensure that such residual activity is properly managed has been a priority of the Government and officials throughout the drafting of the Bill. Therefore the Bill will provide for a new unit to be established within the NTMA following NAMA's dissolution, to manage any remaining residual activity, including litigation, until ultimate completion.

This resolution unit will report to NTMA senior management and will operate within the agency's governance framework. The vesting of this residual activity in the NTMA will ensure that any active proceedings to which NAMA was a party before its dissolution will continue to be managed effectively.

As the Deputy will be aware, by virtue of sections 99 and 202 of the NAMA Act 2009, NAMA is legally precluded from disclosing confidential debtor information, including specific details relating to debtors, secured assets or related transactions. I remind the Deputy that NAMA was established as an independent commercial body and I have no role in its operations or decisions.

In relation to the matters raised by the Deputy, I am informed by NAMA that it is satisfied it has at all times acted appropriately and in accordance with its statutory remit.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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I am worried that when there is alleged fraud taking place with the handling of money who will be responsible for the ongoing investigations into that fraud and irregularities and current cases; including two matters I have raised previously in this House, namely, the ongoing NAMA investigation into circumstances relating to Nemo Rangers lands in Cork, and the unlawful use by NAMA of the personal tax number of Mr. John Fraher, a businessman in Clonmel? He had gone out of business, was living in England and his tax number was used for a number of years, with the knowledge of NAMA and by people involved in NAMA. It was an abject crime.

What becomes of the cases when NAMA ceases operations? Who will take responsibility for these investigations? Who will be held to account for any irregularities or wrongdoing? Will the Minister make a statement on that? He said he is not responsible but somebody has to be accountable for what went on here. It was an awful vista. We had Project Eagle in Belfast and Project Jackdaw in Clonmel, on the Clonmel Arms site. We have the cases of Mr. John Fraher and Nolan Transport and other ongoing cases in Wexford and issues there as well.

Jen Cummins (Dublin South Central, Social Democrats)
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There will be a supplementary question from Deputy Neville.

Joe Neville (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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NAMA has been one of those interesting bodies in my lifetime. It came in during a significant economic crash and was seen almost a set-up of last resort. I wondered about the impact it would have. As we look back now we can see it has had a positive legacy. It has turned out positively for the Government, notwithstanding what has happened over the past few years and that is worth reflecting on. How do we take the learnings, and not just from NAMA itself? If something like this happens again, how do we ensure the knowledge we built up and the success, ultimately, of NAMA is replicated? It was one of the great benefits of the last 15 years considering the crash we had, to be able to put together a body like NAMA. The Opposition probably ultimately considered it would have been the worst thing in the world but it has worked out successfully. So much money has been repaid to the Exchequer, even though we took such a risk. How do we take the learnings from that and how does the Tánaiste see we will be able to put that in place for future generations?

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I thank Deputy McGrath for his follow-up question. It is not a question of responsibility. I am precluded, as is NAMA, under sections 99 and 202 of the NAMA Act from disclosing confidential debtor information. Indeed, NAMA is legally precluded from disclosing that information, including specific details relating to debtors, secured assets or related transactions. The agency remains an independent commercial body. These queries the Deputy raised have been raised with NAMA and it has informed me it is satisfied it has at all times acted appropriately and in accordance with its statutory remit. If the Deputy has any further information to the contrary or concerns, I encourage him to make them available to NAMA or any other agency he feels is appropriate.

Deputy Neville asked an interesting question about learnings. One hopes we will never find ourselves as a country in this position ever again and that is why we have to continue to budget in such a manner. NAMA's lifetime contribution to the Exchequer has been €5.6 billion and that includes cash, corporation tax and significant assets.

Jen Cummins (Dublin South Central, Social Democrats)
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Thank you, Tánaiste.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I will come back on the rest in a moment.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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There are serious concerns about fraud in recent High Court proceedings about unusual ownership structures such as a case involving two identically named companies, Dildar Limited, one of which is registered offshore, which may indicate attempts to circumvent liabilities to NAMA, and the Tánaiste is saying that he does not have responsibility.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I never said "responsibility".

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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Somebody has to have responsibility when NAMA is wound up. We cannot just fold it up and put it on a shelf and say, "Great job done". NAMA did some good work but there was obvious wrongdoing and fraud in the cases I mentioned including the Nemo Rangers lands in Cork and worse in Clomnel town with the Clonmel Arms Hotel, which I have raised here, and now the Clonmel Park Hotel and Mr. John Fraher. The Tánaiste said NAMA is satisfied it acted appropriately. How could it have acted appropriately when he went out of business, ceased trading in Ireland, went bankrupt, was trading in England and his tax number was continually used to put funds through here by other directors of the company, with the knowledge of NAMA? I have named these cases in the Dáil.

Jen Cummins (Dublin South Central, Social Democrats)
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Deputy, your time is up.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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The Tánaiste said that NAMA is satisfied. Well I am not satisfied and I will not stop at this. I have gone to the Garda. They do not seem to be interested either so it is a funny situation.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I say this respectfully and I do not want to be overly argumentative on the final day of the Dáil before Christmas, but it is unfair to say the Garda is not interested. The Garda in this country take very seriously any issues brought to its attention and if the Deputy has an issue with the Garda, there is a structure there. I just do not like those blanket statements, "The Garda is not interested" and "NAMA is not interested". It is a very serious thing to come to the floor of the Dáil, reference individual citizens of our State's tax details and numbers - I am not sure that is in order - and then basically accuse people of fraud, including State agencies. Everyone has an entitlement to his or her good name. There are very robust procedures in place. If the Deputy believes any illegality has been committed, he should go to An Garda Síochána. The Garda is always interested in all matters related to that. I am satisfied, as Minister for Finance, that based on the information the Deputy has provided to the Department of Finance and to NAMA, that NAMA has acted at all times appropriately and in accordance with its statutory remit. That is what I am telling the Deputy here on the floor of the Dáil. I have also said, and reiterate, that in regard to any residual activity, including court cases - the Deputy referenced cases and I do not know whether they are live or not - responsibility for that will transfer to the NTMA. Perhaps that is another route through which the Deputy can raise his query.

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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Can I raise a point of order? I would like clarification because I was not aware of this. Are we allowed to ask supplementary questions on priority questions?

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I was wondering about that.

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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It was provided for there in the last question. Priority questions are protected, as far as I know today, from other Members interfering in them.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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We are not.

Jen Cummins (Dublin South Central, Social Democrats)
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We are not. Please forgive me. It is my first time doing this.

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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That is okay. I was not sure if it had changed or not, genuinely.

Jen Cummins (Dublin South Central, Social Democrats)
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Apologies for that.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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The spirit of Christmas.

Jen Cummins (Dublin South Central, Social Democrats)
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The spirit of Christmas and forgiveness.

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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Exactly.

Jen Cummins (Dublin South Central, Social Democrats)
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Deputy Boland's supplementary question will be allowed. Not Deputy Neville's, that is enough. He has gotten me into trouble once already. We will move to Question No. 174 which will be grouped with Question No. 184.