Dáil debates

Wednesday, 24 May 2023

Ceisteanna ar Pholasaí nó ar Reachtaíocht - Questions on Policy or Legislation

 

12:32 pm

Photo of Mary Lou McDonaldMary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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I want to return to the Barnardos report that was raised earlier. It found that one in five parents struggle to put food on the table for their families. It found that one in three is either not eating or eating less to ensure their children have food. I am sure the Taoiseach will agree that this is an appalling situation and evidence of the poverty that is in our society and the pressure families are under in a cost-of-living crisis. Urgent help is needed.

A suggestion has been made by Barnardos that the school meals programme be extended outside of term time and that it be extended to secondary schools. Will the Taoiseach do these two things urgently? In the case of the extension to outside of term time, obviously, we are heading into the summer holidays, which is a huge pressure point for families who struggle to feed their children.

Photo of Leo VaradkarLeo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Deputy. As the Deputy will be aware, we will have a free schoolbooks scheme for all primary schools starting in September. That idea was first proposed by Barnardos. I remember meeting the charity about it several years ago. It was piloted by then Minister for Education and Skills, Deputy McHugh. Now the Minister for Education, Deputy Foley, will make a reality of it.

The charity is now proposing the extension of hot school meals. This is also an idea that we have acted on. The Minister, Deputy Humphreys, is leading that programme. We will have free hot school meals in every DEIS primary school and every special school by September. The Minister, Deputy Humphreys, has also written out to schools that are non-DEIS to see if they would be interested in participating in this programme as well.

I had the pleasure of visiting a bunscoil in Cahir in Tipperary, with Deputy Mattie McGrath and others, to see that working last week. It is great to see it working - individualised hot school meals for kids with their names on it.

Providing that in the summer period during the holidays would involve logistical complications but we will examine it. The priority is DEIS schools and special schools first and other schools that are interested second. Then we can look at the possibility of extending it to the holiday period.

Photo of Ivana BacikIvana Bacik (Dublin Bay South, Labour)
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Employees in Meta's Irish operation are set to be informed of further layoffs today. This is distressing news for so many.

This year, we have heard many announcements of tech redundancies with a repeated pattern in tech companies of employees being hired en masseand then fired, again in large numbers, for the sake of so-called efficiency.

In these difficult times, we in the Labour Party believe Government must act to rebalance power between workers and corporations. Workers need not only a right to bargain collectively but also a right to organise in their workplaces, because through trade unions we have seen many of the workers' rights implemented that we enjoy today. Indeed, many tech workers are now voting with their feet and are joining unions such as the Financial Services Union, FSU, to ensure they are protected from global forces at play in the tech industry. What action is the Taoiseach taking to tackle job losses in the tech sector and will his Government commit to implementing a right to organise for trade unions in Irish workplaces?

Photo of Leo VaradkarLeo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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I understand Meta will announce significant job losses affecting its operations in Ireland later this afternoon. It is important the company be allowed to make that announcement and engage with its staff, so I will not say too much about that here today. That would be unfair and inappropriate.

Obviously, my thoughts are with the staff who are affected and their families. I assure them we will engage with the company to make sure they are given a decent severance package or redundancy package, which we would expect all employers to do, and that they will receive support from the State in terms of job search, education and training, if they need it.

I would point out though, and this matters, that the statistics out today from the Central Statistics Office, CSO, show 2.6 million people at work in Ireland, which is more than ever before. In the tech sector, which the Deputy mentioned, that ICT sector, there has been an increase of 4,000 in the number of people working in that sector in the past year. While there are job losses across the tech sector, there are lots of job opportunities too. There are more people working in that sector than there were this time last year.

Photo of Holly CairnsHolly Cairns (Cork South West, Social Democrats)
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Earlier, many of us gathered outside Leinster House to mark the fifth anniversary of the repeal of the eighth amendment. It is an important date to mark for many reasons, for instance, to celebrate that achievement of women getting their rights but also to highlight the shortcomings with the current legislation. We now know that we have an independent medical review of the current legislation. That is information we did not have when we made this legislation. There are some clear asks in that.

Something I remember from canvassing for repeal in Cork South-West is many people voted for women who needed terminations for medical reasons not to be forced to travel anymore, and unfortunately they still are. There is massive concern that this is being delayed. It is being kicked into the Joint Committee on Health. Will the Taoiseach please reassure us that action will be taken as soon as possible so that fewer women are forced to do this? Will the Taoiseach guarantee us that it will not be based on maybe his or other members of Cabinet's feelings of discomfort or reluctance but based on an independent medical review of a healthcare provision?

Photo of Leo VaradkarLeo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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An independent review has been done and published. I am not sure I would describe it as an independent medical review. There are inputs from non-medical people in that as well. That is just a point of fact.

The matter is being considered by the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Health. I understand the committee plans to conclude its deliberations quite quickly and will come back to Government.

I can give the Deputy the following assurance. Whatever decision is made on this will be made democratically in this House by its Members. It will not be based on my feelings. It will not be based on the Deputy's feelings either. It will be based on what is right for women and for babies. It will be up to each member to decide his or her view on it. I hope people will be able to respect each other's opinions on it and not get involved in personalisation.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Owen is a pensioner with severe diabetes who has had half his leg amputated and he has associated heart and kidney issues. His wife, Myrna, works full time as a home carer, but because her income takes them over the social housing income threshold, they are living effectively in a cupboard. She sleeps in the bed and Owen has to sleep on a couch with his condition, but cannot sleep until the other tenants, who also live in the accommodation, go to sleep at night, because they are using the shared accommodation. What it highlights is very vulnerable people who clearly do not have the resources to pay private rents out there are stuck in an absolutely unacceptable situation because they are over the income threshold. There are many other people like that. They should have the support of the housing assistance payment, HAP, or other housing supports in order for them to secure decent and appropriate housing for an elderly couple in that situation.

Photo of Leo VaradkarLeo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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As the Deputy will be aware, we have increased the social housing income limit by €5,000 in recent months and we now have cost rental, which is an option for people who are above the social housing income limits. We will keep the limits under constant review. We have to take account of rising prices, rising wages and rising housing costs. We will keep them under review, but I would say that when it comes to any income limit or any means test, no matter where you pick or set the level, there will always be somebody who is just above it and other people who are above it as well.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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It should be a sliding scale. It should not be a cliff.

Photo of Noel GrealishNoel Grealish (Galway West, Independent)
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A couple of months ago, I raised concerns in this House regarding the shortages in the healthcare sector and the chronic issue of staff recruitment and staff retention, particularly in the provision of home care for the elderly.

The home care sector has been engaged in discussions with the Department of Health and the HSE since December regarding tender 2023, which will set out how the sector will operate in the next number of years. The current arrangements, known as tender 2018, have been extended by the HSE three times, which means home care providers have been unable to update staff and offer pay rises and compensation for travel time and mileage. Given the rising cost of living and inflationary pressures, being able to offer increased benefits to home care staff will be a significant factor in helping improve staff recruitment and retention, thus benefiting older people waiting for new or increased home care hours. Will the Taoiseach ensure tender 2023 is finalised as quickly as possible to help ensure care for elderly people who want to remain living in their own homes?

12:42 pm

Photo of Leo VaradkarLeo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Deputy. The overall budget for home care this year is more than €700 million and our target is to provide just under 4 million home support hours this year, which is so important for keeping people in their homes and enabling them to be discharged from hospital in a timely manner, so it is money well spent, in my view. The existing tender for home support services was extended at the end of 2022, initially until the end of April and now until the end of June. The HSE is in negotiations with home care providers to progress a new tender and no final decision on the tender content has yet been reached, but the HSE's proposed extension of the existing contract arrangements will allow further time to finalise tender arrangements. This is a major priority for the Minister of State, Deputy Butler, and I am sure she will get it over the line as soon as possible.

Photo of Mattie McGrathMattie McGrath (Tipperary, Independent)
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Two reports published this month support disclosures Deputy Durkan has been making in this House since last September. A report prepared for the National Women’s Council of Ireland, NWCI, and the Department of Justice by Nuala Egan SC and Professor Ellen O'Malley Dunlop of the University of Limerick, UL, was launched on 3 May by the Minister for Justice, Deputy Harris. This report states that many social workers remain untrained in the dynamics of domestic violence and focus on removing children into care rather than supporting the mothers. This was raised by Deputy Durkan last week as a Topical Issue matter. A second report, by the UN Special Rapporteur on Violence Against Women, describes how mothers can be accused of parental alienation when they report child sexual abuse and can have their custody of the children removed.

The Alliance of Birthmothers Campaigning for Justice is meeting in Buswells Hotel today and its representatives want to know whether the Taoiseach will meet them. They are trying to support these mothers in their campaign for fairness and justice and ensure children and mothers are treated with the respect they deserve.

Photo of Leo VaradkarLeo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Deputy. It is not my practice to agree to meetings on the floor of the House, and I would encourage anyone who wants a meeting to apply for one or write in and ask for one in the normal way. It would not be fair on others to agree to meetings just because they were raised in the Chamber. I do not think that would be fair to others who do not have someone to raise meetings in the Chamber for them.

The issue of parental alienation has been raised in the House by Deputy Durkan on many occasions and I know Deputy McGrath has raised it too. The Department of Justice has done a report on it, which it will be able to publish quite soon, and the Minister, Deputy Harris, is happy to arrange individual briefings for Deputies and Senators on it if they have an interest in it.

Photo of Michael McNamaraMichael McNamara (Clare, Independent)
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I again raise the potential for accommodation over retail units in all our market towns. I asked the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage, repeatedly by way of parliamentary question whether, where the ground floor is in use consistently and the upper floors have not been in use, that qualifies for Croí Cónaithe. These are not vacant buildings because the ground floor remains and has always been in use. I asked that question and got an unclear reply, sent it back to the Ceann Comhairle, who sent it back to the Department, and got a more unclear reply back. I sent it back again, got a further unclear reply and then sent it back for the fourth time. That level of obfuscation costs a lot of money.

It is a simple question. Does it qualify or does it not? I do not expect the Taoiseach to have the answer, because it is a specific question. Will he give a commitment that I will receive an answer to the question of whether, where the ground floor is and has been in use but there is a proposal to convert the upper floors, that qualifies for Croí Cónaithe?

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Minister of State, Deputy O'Donnell, is champing at the bit to get going on this one.

Photo of Kieran O'DonnellKieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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The answer is "Yes, it does", and we will get the Deputy a written response. It is pretty straightforward. If the ground floor of a building is used for retail or as a shop and if the overhead has been vacant for more than two years, the overhead will qualify for Croí Cónaithe. It will not qualify for the higher grant of €50,000, given it will not qualify as derelict because the building is not unoccupied. We will follow up and get a written response, but I have discussed this at length with departmental officials and we will communicate it to the local authorities. We want units to be occupied, so the simple answer is "Yes".

Photo of Michael McNamaraMichael McNamara (Clare, Independent)
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I thank the Minister of State.

Photo of Alan DillonAlan Dillon (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I want to address a deeply concerning situation affecting Mayo under the Housing for All programme. We find ourselves still in a perplexing predicament where we have no targets set for affordable housing schemes for the county. Recently, the local authority undertook an external affordability exercise for Westport, which resulted in the Department's approval of 13 affordable housing units in the area. During this exercise, it became apparent a staggering 775 households had expressed sincere interest in acquiring an affordable house through the council. In light of these findings and baffled as to why the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage has not yet established targets for affordable housing in Mayo, Mayo County Council is, thankfully, now actively pursuing a separate application for affordable housing in Castlebar.

I have called for the establishment of this scheme many times in the Chamber. I respectfully call on the Department to set a realistic target of 100 affordable housing units in Mayo for the period 2023 to 2024. This target aligns to the urgency and gravity of the situation, offering a tangible solution to the housing crisis our county is grappling with.

Photo of Kieran O'DonnellKieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy raises a very important point. We want all local authorities to build under the affordable housing programme using the local authority affordable housing fund. We will encourage all local authorities, including that in Mayo, to put applications to the Department and we are very receptive of that. The original assessment was based on whether a second-hand house for sale within a local authority area was at a level deemed to be affordable. In the case of some of the local authorities, that is what arose but at the moment, we are looking at designing specific targets for local authorities.

However, the message is loud and clear, and I have been to all the local authorities. They wish to build affordable houses and we want them to go into the cost-rental market as well. We want them to put applications into the Department. Setting targets is something we are looking at as well, but we have a proactive model in place.

Photo of Jackie CahillJackie Cahill (Tipperary, Fianna Fail)
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I want to raise a few issues relating to Bus Éireann's school transport five-year procurement scheme for 2023. The information was sent out to bus operators on Friday afternoon last and they were expected to have their tenders in by Monday. Bus Éireann has given a 48-hour extension to 12 noon today, but expecting operators to be able to fill out the very intensive tender document in such a short timeframe is unacceptable. The intrusiveness of the tender document has to be looked at as well. All kinds of questions are asked of operators. School transporters are very important to our educational infrastructure and some of them are small operators. Bus Éireann should give ample time for tenders to be issued but it also needs to reconsider the detail it is looking for from these operators.

Photo of Leo VaradkarLeo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Deputy for raising this. I know how important the issue of school transport is, not least at this time of year. As it is a live tender, I am not across the detail of it, so I would prefer not to comment on it, but I will let the Minister for Education, Deputy Foley, know the Deputy raised it in the Dáil today and perhaps she will be able to engage with him directly.

Photo of Pádraig Mac LochlainnPádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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A Banking & Payments Federation report reveals that the average income now of first-time buyer families is €90,000, a shocking figure in light of the average wage in the State. I listened to the Minister of State, Deputy O'Donnell, talk about affordable housing. I have to hand a copy of the report from last year for all local authorities. Seven out of 31 local authorities delivered affordable housing and seven out of 31 delivered cost rental. The Government is not serious here. There are no plans to build affordable housing in huge numbers of local authority areas throughout the State, yet a family have to earn €90,000 to be a first-time buyer. The Government needs to cop itself on and get a grip on this. There has to be a plan for affordable housing and cost rental in this State so that families who are working hard can hope to have a roof over their heads.

Photo of Leo VaradkarLeo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Deputy. I saw that figure too.

An average family buying a house now has an income of about €90,000. The Deputy asked if I knew what the average income for somebody working in Ireland is now. It is €50,000 for an individual so an average income for two people working full-time would be €100,000. Those are the numbers. We are now seeing over 400 first-time buyers every week. It is the highest level since the Celtic tiger period. That figure is probably an underestimate because it counts couples as one. It is really encouraging that we are seeing very large numbers of first-time buyers and I want to see that increase. The Government is helping. We have, for example, an affordable housing programme for local authorities. We also have the first home scheme which can be particularly helpful because it allows people to bridge the gap between the mortgage they can get and the house they want to buy. We also have the help to buy scheme which helps people get their deposit. Let us not forget that the Deputy's party wants to take all of that away.

12:52 pm

Photo of Pauline TullyPauline Tully (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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A few days ago, the Taoiseach made a comment about my party's policies where he used a term "slow learners". I do not care what the Taoiseach thinks about my party policies. In fact, I would be worried and wondering where we were going wrong if he agreed with them. However, I care about the choice of words because he has caused deep upset to disabled people, especially those with intellectual disabilities. Language is important. Some words are not appropriate, whether it is in relation to disability, sexual orientation, race, or colour. It is not good enough to say to say he was paraphrasing what somebody else had said. One woman contacted me to say that those words were used to her about her baby daughter 42 years ago. Her daughter has a severe physical and intellectual disability. This woman's life has not been easy and the Taoiseach's words reduced her to tears. She felt that for the head of Government to utter words like that was totally inappropriate. Will the Taoiseach apologise to people with intellectual disabilities for his choice of words?

Photo of Leo VaradkarLeo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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I appreciate that people need to be sensitive in the words they use. That applies to the Deputy and her party as well and I hope she will reflect on that given the many things she has said in the past particularly in relation to victims of violence. I am happy to clarify that was not a reference to disability in any way. I am very happy to clarify that for anyone who may have thought so. It was a quote from Seamus Mallon from 25 years ago.

Photo of Pádraig O'SullivanPádraig O'Sullivan (Cork North Central, Fianna Fail)
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Over the last few weeks I have raised the issue of disability services in CHO 4, mainly the provision or lack of respite and access for children from Carrigaline Community Special School to local children's disability network teams, CDNTs. I welcome the clarification by the Minister of State for Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth, Deputy Rabbitte, gave a number of weeks ago where she confirmed Mr. Bernard Gloster had agreed to the reinstatement of the CDNTs into Cork special schools. The issue of the lack of respite and the issue of CDNTs again featured on RTÉ last week where one service provider reiterated that respite services are already oversubscribed by children accessing that charity's special schools and that residential respite services for children were only available to those pupils attending those four special schools under its own patronage and in effect, not to other students attending schools outside of this. In response to this, the Minister of State, Deputy Rabbitte, said she is engaging with all parties to find a fair resolution. She reaffirmed that all children, be they from Carrigaline Community Special School or beyond, are equally entitled to access services and therapies. It is time that someone needs to tell the service provider in question that this is the case.

Photo of Anne RabbitteAnne Rabbitte (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Deputy for raising this issue. As I clarified earlier, there are ten beds in CHO 4 in Cork that are not operational at this time. I have given a suggestion to the HSE that it would recruit agency staff to open the beds and, in addition, that two of those beds would be held for the special school in Carrigaline in order that the children who attend that school would be accommodated.

Photo of Rose Conway-WalshRose Conway-Walsh (Mayo, Sinn Fein)
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People in Mayo, Sligo, and in the west want a straight answer on the N17 Knock to Collooney scheme. The Minister visited last week and alarmed people when he said that there would be no funding available for the scheme for many years even though it had progressed to the planning and development stage. The landowners along the corridor obviously have their land sterilised in this, but people want a straight answer as to what is happening. There is no point in the Government Deputies coming to the House and pretending they are in opposition. There is a collective responsibility for this and we want to know if the N17 Knock to Collooney road is going to go ahead.

Photo of Leo VaradkarLeo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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It will go ahead.

Photo of Leo VaradkarLeo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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However, as is always the case, there is roughly €500 million for the national roads budget for maintenance and then also for new projects. It is never the case that there is funding every year to progress every project. It never was the case and it never will be the case. Funding happens on an annual basis and what we have agreed is that if funding becomes available through the course of the year because one project has been slowed for some reason, then that can be reallocated to another project.

Photo of Bernard DurkanBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Minister for Justice, Deputy Harris, the Taoiseach, the Tánaiste, and the Minister for Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth for facilitating the publication of the so-called parental alienation report. I do not, as yet, know what it is in that report but I hope it will be sufficient starkly and suddenly to discontinue the practice. I compliment all involved for bringing it this far, including the Minister for State who facilitated the debate in the House.

Photo of Leo VaradkarLeo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Deputy for raising this issue. I am no expert on family law but I think it is fair to say that he has highlighted this issue and the report has been carried out by the Department of Justice. It was passed by Cabinet for publication just yesterday and briefings are available to Deputies and Senators who want to know the detail of that and the recommendations.

Photo of Darren O'RourkeDarren O'Rourke (Meath East, Sinn Fein)
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It is a little over a year since medical scientists went on strike for the first time in 60 years. Since then, the independent Medical Scientist Grade Assessment Report by Conall Devine was commissioned and reported and vindicated the position of medical scientists and their legitimate claim for pay parity with clinical biochemists. The report was published in January this year yet still five months on, medical scientists are forced to wait. The HSE, the Department of Health and the Department of Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform, refuse to implement the recommendations of the report. They fight at the Workplace Relations Commission, WRC, and the Labour Court and meanwhile we cannot sustain a cervical screening programme at the Coombe Hospital, waiting lists for biopsy results have lengthened and other services and the profession itself is hanging on by the skin of its teeth. Will the Taoiseach intervene?

Photo of Leo VaradkarLeo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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These things are always part of an industrial relations process and there is a mechanism by which matters such as this can be resolved. The unions talk to the Government on the one hand and then to the WRC and the Labour Court thereafter if needed. That is the way it works. An intervention from me would not change that.

Photo of Paul MurphyPaul Murphy (Dublin South West, RISE)
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Last Thursday, I asked the Tánaiste about the illegal eviction that had taken place on Harrington Street in Dublin where unlicensed private security threatened tenants and others with violence and the fact that the gardaí refused even to take statements saying that it was a civil matter. The Tánaiste responded to say that the Minister had written to the Residential Tenancies Board, RTB, to ensure this matter was investigated thoroughly as early as possible. However, the RTB has previously stated in a report to the Department in November of last year saying it does not have the power to investigate illegal evictions. What sort of investigation is being called for? The same report called on the Government to consider giving An Garda Síochána powers to arrest without a warrant, anyone illegally evicting a tenant. In other words, An Garda Síochána would intervene to prevent illegal evictions. Is that something the Government has agreed to do?

Photo of Kieran O'DonnellKieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Deputy. I was not here when he raised the issue with the Tánaiste last week. However, the Tánaiste did give a commitment that the Minister, Deputy O'Brien, would follow up with the RTB. I give a commitment to engage with the Minister, Deputy O'Brien, and his officials to see what exactly is the up-to-date position. The Deputy raised a number of key points. We want to keep people in their homes, whether they own their homes or are renting - the same principles apply. We will come back to the Deputy very shortly with an update.

Photo of Verona MurphyVerona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Retained firefights are due to take industrial action next month. The Government has been accused of failing to address a worsening recruitment and retention crises in the service. The action will commence on 6 June and will see members engaging in a campaign of non-co-operation with work outside of responding to emergency calls. Retained firefights who make up the vast majority of personnel in this service, outside of the larger urban areas, are part-time workers who must abide by strict conditions including having to reside within a short distance of stations or take up employment within a short radius to be available for call-outs. A significant portion of their pay is based on the number and duration of call-outs in which they participate. Will the Taoiseach assure the House that definitive and positive actions will be taken to ensure this industrial action does not go ahead for all our sakes?

1:02 pm

Photo of Kieran O'DonnellKieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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This matter was also raised yesterday, and I gave a commitment in respect of it. The Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage, Deputy Darragh O’Brien, is taking an interest in it. We all accept that retained firefighters do phenomenal work across the country. We want to ensure that a resolution is found. I will raise the matter again with the Minister, Deputy Darragh O’Brien, in order to try to find a resolution. This is something we are very aware of.

Photo of Louise O'ReillyLouise O'Reilly (Dublin Fingal, Sinn Fein)
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On after-school care for children with additional needs, the norm for most families is that when kids finish in the crèche and go to school, they transfer to a mainstream school with after-school care in a private crèche or other facility. However, many parents in my constituency who have children with additional needs are being advised by a private childcare provider that they cannot keep their kids there unless they can have an SNA. We were advised to go to the special education needs organiser, SENO, which we did. The SENO said it is nothing to do with them and sent us back to the HSE. Are there any supports in place in this regard? The irony is when the kids go to secondary school, they will have an SNA for the full duration of the day. However, any parents now face taking their kids out of after-school care because they cannot afford to provide SNAs. For many, this will mean having to give up work. Nobody wants to see that happen for want of a small amount of support for children with additional needs to access after-school care.

Photo of Leo VaradkarLeo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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The Minister of State, Deputy Rabbitte, informs me that that is available in CHO 9 but perhaps not in all parts of the country. I will ask the Minister of State, Deputy Madigan, to come back to the Deputy on the matter directly.

Photo of Louise O'ReillyLouise O'Reilly (Dublin Fingal, Sinn Fein)
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CHO 9 is my area. The families involved have been sent from pillar to post.

Photo of Leo VaradkarLeo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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I will ask the Minister of State to come back to the Deputy. I do not want to give an answer that is not correct.