Cathal Crowe (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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77. To ask the Minister for Employment Affairs and Social Protection if her Department has examined expanding the payment of child benefit to children in full-time education or training up until the age of 22 years; the amount her Department estimates that this will cost; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [24444/23]

Cathal Crowe (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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This question was transferred to Deputy McAuliffe. I wish to come in at the end if that is possible.

Paul McAuliffe (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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I acknowledge the question was tabled by Deputy Crowe and appreciate him being present. Will the Minister update the House on whether she has considered expanding the child benefit payment for those in full-time education up to the age of 22? That situation existed in the past and we would like to see the scheme expanded.

Heather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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Child benefit is a universal monthly payment made to families with children up to the age of 16. The payment continues to be paid in respect of children who are in full-time education or who have a disability until their 18th birthday. It is currently paid to more than 650,000 families in respect of more than 1.2 million children with an estimated expenditure of in excess of €2.1 billion in 2023.

Last September, as part of budget measures, a number of supports were introduced specifically for families with children, such as the double child benefit payment and the €500 lump-sum payment to recipients of the working family payment. Low-income families also benefited from other budget measures, such as the €12 increase in the weekly personal rate for recipients of the working age payment.

Furthermore, next month, June, as part of the €470 million package, a further lump-sum child benefit payment of €100 per child will issue. In July, there will be a one-off increase of €100 in the back-to-school clothing and footwear allowance. Families who are on low incomes may be able to avail of a number of social welfare schemes that support children who are in full-time education until the age of 22, including increases for a qualified child with primary social welfare payments, the working family payment for low-paid employees with children and the back-to-school clothing and footwear allowance. These schemes provide targeted assistance that is directly linked to household income and thereby support low-income families with older children participating in full-time education. There are currently no plans to extend child benefit in respect to full-time students who are over 18 years of age and who are in full-time education. Such an extension would have significant cost implications and would have be considered in an overall budgetary context. The Department does not hold figures on the numbers of students aged 19 to 22 years in full-time education or training. The estimated full-year costs of extending child benefit to 18-year-olds who are still in secondary school at the current rate of payment is €65 million. I trust this clarifies the matter for the Deputy.

Paul McAuliffe (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Minister for the answer. It is a fairly detailed response and it is costed. As for the response the Government has made in terms of the cost-of-living crisis, despite the criticisms across the House we did take measures that were both targeted and more general. The genesis of this question comes from many queries to our offices from people who would not have been receipt of any other payment. They greatly appreciated the child benefit payments, the double payment that was made before Christmas, as well as the additional week for this June which will affect, as the Minister says, 1.2 million children.

While there are criticisms - I do not say they are not valid - that the child benefit is not more targeted, we have to accept that it also provides, in the midst of the cost-of-living crisis, a more general support across society. There are payments which the Minister says are available but they are only available to some recipients. Perhaps more could be done to protect those people who are in full-time education, even if it is not explicitly through this measure.

Heather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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I take on board what Deputy McAuliffe is saying. Keeping a child in full-time education is a very expensive task. I fully understand it and I do know about it. Child benefit is one of the only tools at my disposal in the Department of Social Protection to support working families. We had the double child benefit payment in December and we will have the €100 lump sum payment on the child benefit payment at the start of June. I will be in the Seanad tomorrow for the next Stage of the legislation for that in order to pay that €100. A few people have raised this issue with me, and the request I have got most frequently is to continue paying child benefit when the child is 18 and they are still in secondary school. They will be 18 in March and nothing will have changed in April and they are still in secondary school. However, going out as far as aged 22 would be a big jump. I am not sure that we could call it "child benefit" if we are paying it in respect of a 22-year-old. To be fair, they are adults at that stage and most of them are probably working part-time. There are other supports, such as the SUSI grant, which is available for when they are at college. I would like to try to do something for those families where the child is still at secondary school.

Paul McAuliffe (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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The way the Government has responded has been creative. It has looked for measures that can be rolled out quite quickly. In many cases, that can mean that it is perhaps not as targeted. I accept the Minister's point that there is a strong case for people who are over 18 and are in second-level schooling. However, I know that will require a strong case to be made to the Minister for Finance as part of the budget process. Work also could be done with the Minister, Deputy Harris, to reduce the overall cost of people who are going on to full-time education through higher education grants etc. There are many ways that you can skin a cat. This was a measure that was taken in the past. I have no difficulty with us finding other ways. While I emphasise we have to help people in targeted ways, we also need to find measures that support a broader base across society in a way that we have done over the last number of years.

Cathal Crowe (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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I will add to what my colleague has been saying. The most expensive years are probably the years when someone heads off to college. As many people now will no longer be living on campus because of the shortages of college accommodation, they will be commuting. The costs are astronomical for parents. If you are below a certain income threshold, there are many really good supports that the Department of Social Protection provides. If you are wealthy, you can ride out those financial years that are quite difficult. However, this is a matter of the squeezed middle.

I would also make the point that, while the Minister might not have to face this decision in the next 12 months, by design this will have to happen at some stage. I say this because now children are starting primary school at six years of age because of the early childhood care and education, ECCE, scheme. They will soon be leaving primary school at 14 years of age. They will soon be finishing secondary school at 20 years of age. They will soonipso factobe finishing third level at 24 years of age. Therefore, at some point in the future, this support will have to be stretched out. Now that we are taking in a little more in the tax net, it would be a lovely thing if we could do it now. What it would mean for families would be incredible.

Finally, I pay tribute to the Minister's colleague, the Minister of State, Deputy Joe O'Brien. He came down to a very difficult situation in Clare last week at Magowna House. A tightrope had to be walked. It was appreciated. A lot more has to be done but I wish to recognise that on the record of the Dáil.

Heather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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I note the Minister, Deputy Harris, has reduced the student fees. To go back to the issue of the child benefit, I really would like to do something for those families where the child is still at secondary school. As has been said, many children are now not starting school until they are five. Then, if they do transition year, there could be some people who miss out because the child will turn 18 when they are in sixth year or at the start of it. I will certainly look at it but it will be a matter for the budget. Like all budgets, it will be about what we can prioritise in terms of what is available.

Cathal Crowe (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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We will back the Minister.

Heather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Deputy. I need that.

I accept that child benefit is a universal payment. I acknowledge some people are against that concept. Yet, I can say as someone who worked in a credit union, there were a lot more hard-working, middle-income families who depended on child benefit than there are millionaires. Child benefit is one of the ways that I, as Minister for Social Protection, can support working families and I am glad to be able to do that.