Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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The Ceann Comhairle kindly allowed discussion on this and associated subjects over the past six or seven months, eventually to the benefit of victims. Apropos the discussion we have just had, allowing debate when none was available was of huge, groundbreaking importance.

This matter relates to women who are mothers and who find themselves in particularly difficult family law situations. I refer to cases where the children and mothers - sometimes it is the fathers but more often it is the mothers - become the victims. In these cases, children are removed from the custody of their mothers and placed in the custody of the opposing party. That is done on a regular basis. That happens in almost 90% of cases, with the same result and the same procedure is followed. Invariably, the women in these cases appeal to the system to help them. The system in this instance is Tusla, whose responsibility it is to protect children. We were admonished in previous eras for not listening to or believing children. We have situations, as the Ceann Comhairle knows, where children have not been believed. Even Tusla has said it does not believe the children, that this is not its function and that the issues happen to be before the courts and nobody can interfere. That is not true and is unconstitutional if anyone was to take a case. The point is that the unfortunate women who find themselves in the circumstances to which I refer are in no position to take constitutional cases because they do not have the resources.

This will continue as long as it is allowed to do so, just like the previous topic we discussed. I seek an inquiry into the whole system insofar as it relates to Tusla and the family law courts. If this does not happen soon, there will be a tragic end to the situation. Children are in some cases put in cells away from their mothers; the mothers in some cases have been put in cells away from the children just to make sure. In some instances, children have been arrested and put in so-called places of safety, where there were previous allegations to the contrary. This still goes on.

The most annoying thing is the fact Tusla feels it cannot intervene on behalf of children, yet it is Tusla’s job to interfere on their behalf. In one situation, an employee of Tusla said they did not believe the child. That is a serious comment to make in any such situation. Who is going to believe the child? How will the child or children in such circumstances get protection? They cannot, of course, because there are too many oars in the water.

I thank the Minister of State for coming to the House to deal with this matter. I know he is familiar with the situation because I brought it to his attention before in the context of to his constituency. This is an important occasion. It will have a groundbreaking effect and be followed indefinitely.

Peter Burke (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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I thank Deputy Durkan for raising this important issue, which I am taking on behalf of the Minister for Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth. Under the Child Care Act 1991, Tusla, the Child and Family Agency, is the statutory body with responsibility to promote the welfare of children who are not receiving adequate care and protection. The Act is the key piece of legislation whereby the State, as a last resort and for the common good, may intervene to take the place of parents, as provided for under Article 42A.2.1^oof the Constitution.

Tusla can apply to the court under the Child Care Act for a number of different orders when it believes that children are at risk or in need of care. These orders give the courts a range of powers including decision-making regarding the type of care necessary and access to the child or children for parents or other relatives. In such cases, the court has the power to direct Tusla regarding the care of the child. Under this Act, the court must regard the best interests of the child as the paramount consideration.

Section 26 of the Child Care Act 1991 provides for the appointment by the courts of a guardian ad litemin respect of child care proceedings. The courts are, subject only to the Constitution and the law, independent in the exercise of their statutory functions and the conduct of any family law case is a matter for the presiding judge.

The programme for Government contains a commitment to enact legislation relating to the family courts. The Family Courts Bill will be a key element in the development of a more efficient and user-friendly family court system that puts families at the centre of its activities, provides access to specialist supports and encourages the use of alternative dispute resolution in family law proceedings. The Minister for Justice received Government approval in November to publish the Family Courts Bill and the first national family justice strategy, marking a significant step towards reform of the family justice system.

The Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth is represented on the family justice oversight group, which is led by the Department of Justice. It is closely involved in the planned reforms, particularly as they relate to child care proceedings, and in ensuring that children’s best interests are central to this process.

The Minister, Deputy O'Gorman, as the dedicated Minister with responsibility for children, is committed to upholding the best interests of children in all situations.

Ireland held the presidency of the Council of Europe in 2022. One of the priorities chosen for the Irish Presidency was "Hear our Voices", which had a particular focus on youth engagement. As part of this, the Minister was delighted to host a conference in October 2022 focusing on the rights and determination of the best interests of the child in parental separation and in care proceedings.

Last year the Minister oversaw the enactment of the Child Care (Amendment) Act 2022. The main purpose of the Act is to extend and regulate the guardian ad litemsystem for children involved in childcare proceedings. The provisions of this Act are intended to enhance the rights of children and the capacity of the courts to make the right decisions in helping children and their families. The Bill provides for reform of guardian ad litemarrangements in childcare proceedings, addressing significant shortcomings in the current system and providing a presumption in favour of appointment of a guardian ad litemin all childcare proceedings. However, private family law is not covered by this legislation.

Legislation related to private family law is under the remit of the Department of Justice. Section 32 of the Guardianship of Infants Act 1964, as inserted by section 63 of the Children and Family Relationships Act 2015, provides that a court may appoint an expert to determine and convey the child’s views, known as a voice of the child report.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Minister of State and the Ceann Comhairle for facilitating this debate. The problem is, of course, that the two Departments act independently. As long as this happens, this abuse, controlling and bullying will go on, as will this attempt to disregard children. I know of one case where someone said they had come to the conclusion they did not believe what the child said. That is a strong statement, particularly after all the things that have happened in this country. I challenge the right of anybody to come to this conclusion.

We have all dealt with these family law cases at our various constituency clinics over the years. It does not take rocket science to come to a conclusion about what is going on in certain circumstances. As the matter drifts along, my intention is to bring it to the next stage, whatever that stage may be, if it is not dealt with in the way it should be dealt with, which is resolutely and quickly, to protect the women and their children. There should be no situation where the things that have been brought to my attention are allowed to happen unchallenged.

Peter Burke (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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I thank Deputy Durkan for raising this important issue. I know he has raised it on a number of occasions. I will revert to the Minister with responsibility for children with his concerns because these are very serious issues he is bringing to public attention in the Dáil, which is the highest forum in the country to do so. I will refer back to the Minister on it.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Ceann Comhairle.