Dáil debates

Thursday, 1 December 2022

Ceisteanna ar Sonraíodh Uain Dóibh - Priority Questions

Apprenticeship Programmes

10:44 am

Photo of Rose Conway-WalshRose Conway-Walsh (Mayo, Sinn Fein)
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90. To ask the Minister for Education and Skills the reason that such little progress has been made in clearing the backlog of apprentices waiting to access off-the-job training in further education colleges and technological universities, given that 4,937 apprentices have currently been waiting over six months to be given a date to begin off-the-job training; the steps that he is taking to facilitate apprentices accessing training close to home; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [59804/22]

Photo of Rose Conway-WalshRose Conway-Walsh (Mayo, Sinn Fein)
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Why is so little progress being made in clearing the backlog of apprentices waiting to access off-the-job training in further education colleges and technological universities, given that 4,937 apprentices have been waiting over six months to be given a date to begin their off-the-job training? Can the Minister let us know the steps he has taken to facilitate apprentices accessing training close to home? Over the last two and a half years, the apprenticeship system has been chronic and chaotic, with one in four apprentices waiting more than six months to even get a date to start their off-the-job training in either further education or technological universities. It is higher again for certain apprentices such as electricians. I am frustrated at the lack of progress we are making in this area, but not half as frustrated as the apprentices themselves.

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Deputy for highlighting this important issue. By any objective measure, there has been an unprecedented level of focus on apprenticeships by my Department since its creation. In fact, I would argue that one of the big benefits of the establishment of my Department two and a half years ago was a policy focus on the area of apprenticeship, whether through the apprenticeship action plan, a new national apprenticeship office, the highest ever number of new registered apprentices last year - 8,607, employer grants, a huge range of courses, or massive capital investment to try to address some of the issues so we can train more apprentices in the regions. The Deputy and I spoke about that in Castlebar during the week. However, I fully accept that there are real challenges around the Covid backlog, given there was a situation where all learning had to go online. Obviously people cannot do their entire apprenticeship online so the practical elements significantly deteriorated during that time.

There has been a substantial increase in apprenticeship registrations, with 40% extra in 2021 compared to 2019, which was the last normal year before the pandemic. This strong growth is welcome. Indeed, it is essential to meeting our construction and green skills needs. The apprenticeship system has been engaging with meeting this greatly increasing demand while at the same time trying to recover from the impact of the extended closures of the training system during Covid. There has been a major response across the craft apprenticeship system to the delays in accessing off-the-job training and significant progress has been achieved in the number waiting over six months. I thank everyone involved in this. The number stood at almost 5,300 in August and is now reduced to 4,937, notwithstanding the fact that there have been many new registrations at the same time. It is important to understand that the number waiting over six months, which is reducing in absolute terms, also turns over continually due to those accessing training coming off the list throughout the year. I assure the Deputy that absolutely everything that is humanly possible is being done to get this backlog addressed. I will take her through those measures in a moment.

10:54 am

Photo of Rose Conway-WalshRose Conway-Walsh (Mayo, Sinn Fein)
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What I want to know is when the backlog will be dealt with because I get a different answer every time I ask this question. It is difficult to compare figures. Last year we were working on a waiting list of more than 8,000 people. This year we get the number of people that are waiting just under six months. The figures are difficult to decipher. In the meantime, we have a situation where many apprentices are waiting and I know they are contacting the Minister as well because they are contacting me. I am really concerned about the impact this is having on them financially and on their mental health and well-being. We need to look as well at the number of apprentices who have dropped out of the system because of this. Whatever about new apprentices, which I always welcome, we have to deal with the backlog and face up to the current situation where people are having to wait too long. They are having to wait to do an apprenticeship that was supposed to take four years and is now taking five and six years and it is just not on.

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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The answers the Deputy gets are not changing. There was more than 11,000 people waiting at the peak in August 2021. We engaged very intensively with SOLAS to find out how long somebody would generally wait, forgetting Covid-19. If Covid-19 had never happened, the normal time somebody would generally wait between one phase and the other is six months. That is the standard time people wait between moving from one phase to the other as part of what they call the standard based apprenticeship, SBA, model. I think it is quite right and proper now that we make sure that the people are not waiting longer than the six months, the genuine Covid-10 backlog. That number is falling and it is falling in real terms. It is genuinely truthfully falling but I absolutely accept there is more work that needs to be done and we will not rest until the backlog is cleared. The programmes with the longest waiting lists which are electrical, plumbing and carpentry, have been reformed and these changes are now running through the system with increased numbers of apprentices been called to off-the-job training. In addition, all classes which had been running at half capacity are now back in full; capital funding of €20 million was provided to extend and upgrade facilities and a further fund of €17 million has been provided as well. I apologise I am out of time but I can take the Deputy through it.

Photo of Rose Conway-WalshRose Conway-Walsh (Mayo, Sinn Fein)
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I thank the Minister. Going into a new apprenticeship needs to be attractive to young people and indeed to people throughout their life cycle. They get paid very little for the very hard work they do and the Government and SOLAS needs to get this right. We know that years of under-investment have left a shortage of capacity in the system but the fact is that only 1,798 apprentices became fully qualified trades people in 2021 and that is close to 600 fewer than in 2020 and represents the lowest number of newly qualified tradespeople since 2017. This is a really serious situation. We also have to look at the offsite training places and provide them closer to home. We all know what the accommodation and housing situation has done. Will the Minister ask everybody involved in apprenticeships and in making the decisions to place apprentices as near as possible to their homes so that we cut down on some of the costs that are involved for our apprentices.

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I agree with the last point but the Deputy knows when quoting those figures that obviously Covid-19 had an impact on the pace at which people were able to fully qualify as an apprentice. I do not think that is news; that is a reality of the Covid-19 pandemic when our training centres had to shut down for sustained periods of time to keep people safe. The more important figure is that more people than ever before are putting up their hands and saying they want to be apprentices. Those figures are there too and are very strong. I agree that we have to work to make apprenticeships as attractive as possible. The Deputy is entirely correct on that point but I think, or certainly hope, she would agree that resources are not the issue here. Every cent being sought by SOLAS by the Education and Training Boards, ETBs, to expand apprenticeships is forthcoming. We are developing and expanding apprenticeship facilities all around the country. We have already put €20 million into capital funding to deal with the backlog; provided a further €17 million, €6 million of which is to train and bring in additional instructors; and over one hundred additional posts have been approved. I want to see our Technological Universities now and our new Further Education and Training, FET, colleges of the future become those apprenticeship hubs in the region so that people can access that training closer to home and in their communities.