Dáil debates

Thursday, 1 December 2022

Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions

Departmental Policies

10:04 am

Photo of Michael FitzmauriceMichael Fitzmaurice (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
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11. To ask the Minister for Housing, Planning, and Local Government if he has made any decision on modular homes for the homeless or social housing other than for asylum seekers; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [59852/22]

Photo of Peadar TóibínPeadar Tóibín (Meath West, Aontú)
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19. To ask the Minister for Housing, Planning, and Local Government if he will elaborate on his interpretation of rapid build technology being used to tackle Ireland's housing shortage. [57518/22]

Photo of Peadar TóibínPeadar Tóibín (Meath West, Aontú)
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The issue of rapid building technology in dealing with the housing crisis was raised several years ago and has been raised again recently in the context of how we deal with the pressures on the system as a result of the refugee crisis in the country at present. Many Ministers have said the technology will be part of the plan to house refugees and it will be part of the plan to build homes for people who are homeless or have been on the housing list for a long period. Will the Minister to give specific details on this?

Photo of Darragh O'BrienDarragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal, Fianna Fail)
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Gabhaim buíochas leis an Teachta as an cheist, which is a very important one. We need to look at how we can utilise modern methods of construction, including off-site construction and modular builds, to ramp up the supply of housing. We clearly set out that objective in pathway 5 under the Government's Housing for All plan. The development of modern methods of construction, MMC, will improve productivity in construction and increase efficiency in residential construction. It will be an important tool we will use.

The further development of MMC is being led by the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment, which has established a leadership and integration group, and my Department is represented on this group. The group is ensuring the cohesive integration and co-ordination of the various Departments that support the MMC initiatives. We will establish a multi-location consortium, a construction technology centre led by the University of Galway, a new demonstration park for modern methods of construction at Mount Lucas operated by Laois and Offaly Education and Training Board and the new national construction training centre, also at Mount Lucas.

I visited many companies in Ireland that are developing off-site construction methods, not just modular build. About 48% of all homes built in Ireland are wooden frame homes, which I welcome. This is better for a climate perspective, but we need to do more on the social housing side. Next week, I will table an amendment to the planning and development and foreshore (amendment) Bill that will seek approval to expedite the delivery of social and affordable homes on State-owned land. This will be underpinned by the allocation of €100 million to pay down loans on local authority sites that can deliver social housing projects linked to accelerated delivery. What I am doing for that extra delivery, which we will manage in a central way, is seeking that local authorities will use the off-site construction methods we see are working. Some local authorities have already used these methods very well. I have visited sites in Limerick and in Fingal, my local authority area. We need to accelerate this delivery. There is demand there. These methods are more efficient and effective. I see this as additional supply and we have the funding to underpin it. We have to make sure we are using the best of technology to deliver homes quicker. Next year could be a breakthrough year in that regard. I am happy to keep the Deputy informed of progress.

Photo of Peadar TóibínPeadar Tóibín (Meath West, Aontú)
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In relation to refugees and asylum seekers, most people want to be generous and to be the Good Samaritan. The way the Government has handled this, with the lack of consultation with communities, has created division in large number of areas. Consultation is very important, for example, in the building of wind turbines, pylons, hotels and such things. People should have a role in the future of their community, and the lack of consultation has caused difficulty. Many Ministers have spoken about the need for modular homes in the case of refugees and for the delivery of homes for people from Ireland who have been on the housing list for a long time. It is very important we treat people equally. If you say to one group of people that there will be one route towards housing provision that is not available to another group, it will be a threat to the consensus and attitudes in society and create division. Based on the Minister's reply, it is clear to me there is no specific plan for the building of modular homes for people who are homeless in Ireland right now. There are no delivery dates and there is no specific funding for that at present.

Photo of Fergus O'DowdFergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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I want to make a point about refugees and asylum seekers. In building the modular homes, we have to be right in what we are doing and make them available to all people. We must stand up to xenophobia and racism in our country.

Photo of Darragh O'BrienDarragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal, Fianna Fail)
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Hear, hear.

Photo of Fergus O'DowdFergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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I was sickened to see, near North Wall, the term "Irish lives matter". Of course they do. Everybody's life matters, but people have been raped, murdered and slaughtered in Ukraine. People are saying there should be a cap on the number of them coming here. We had a cap on the number of Jewish refugees coming to Ireland during the Second World War. We stopped them from coming into the country. We must make sure such disgraceful, shameful historic events do not happen again. I feel very angry. People should not be able to stop access to the port tunnel willy-nilly. They are entitled to protest but they are not entitled to stop people from going home from work or to put people's lives at risk. More people are walking and cycling in the dark because they are not secure in using public transport.

Let us stand up to them and show we mean business. Let us do it, as Deputy Tóibín says, by consultation and working with people. Let us put an end to the dog-whistle xenophobia I am hearing now.

10:14 am

Photo of Darragh O'BrienDarragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal, Fianna Fail)
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B'fhéidir nach raibh an Teachta ag éisteacht le mo fhreagra ar an gceist sin. I answered it very clearly. We have set targets. We are using modern methods of construction. I suggest the Deputy be careful not to blur the lines, if I may. The emergency response to provide safe harbour to our friends from Ukraine, as Deputy O'Dowd has eloquently said, is separate to what we are doing on delivery of Housing for All. It is in addition to Housing for All. Some of the accommodation we will provide on a temporary or medium-term basis would not be appropriate for permanent or social housing, such as the refurbishment programme.

This is an emergency. Some 62,000 Ukrainians have come to this country since February or March. We have had 15,000 other citizens who are fleeing war and persecution in other areas of the world. We know in our history as a State what it is like to be persecuted. We know what it is like to have countries turn their back on our people who had to flee persecution in this country. I never wish to see a situation whereby we, as a people, turn our backs on people fleeing persecution and this Government will certainly never do so.

(Interruptions).

Photo of Darragh O'BrienDarragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal, Fianna Fail)
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Níl mé críochnaithe fós. Let us be very clear that the targets with regard to additional delivery on modern methods of construction are very clearly set out and we will manage that centrally. This is different. There is a real opportunity to further ramp up the delivery of social and affordable homes, which I know the Deputy is asking for, but that is a separate response under the Housing for All plan. The emergency response with regard to our friends from Ukraine will continue. We will have a consultation but some people hide behind the word, "consultation", which means they are nearly excusing some of the disgusting protests. They are not excusing the protests themselves. Rather, what I am talking about is some of the behaviour around them. People are entitled to have a view. We live in a democracy and a republic but let us remember where we came from. We should be welcoming. In fairness, the vast majority of Deputies are welcoming. I recognise the Deputy opposite is also welcoming.

Photo of Peadar TóibínPeadar Tóibín (Meath West, Aontú)
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We support safe harbour. It is a moral and international responsibility when people are fleeing war, violence or famine to stand up and give them shelter when it is needed. Nobody is arguing that point. We are simply saying there must be equality in the delivery of services in this State. The only baseline we are asking for in this situation is one from which everybody who is resident in this State is simply treated equally. I asked the Minister what the targets were. All I am looking for is a figure for how many modular homes will be built to relieve the housing crisis in 2022, 2023 and 2024. How many euro will be spent on delivering that? Targets are not nebulous. They are specific details. I am waiting for those specific details to be delivered here. Cohesion is dependent upon people feeling and understanding they are treated equally. That should be the baseline for any government in a western liberal democracy.

Photo of Darragh O'BrienDarragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal, Fianna Fail)
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We will deliver more new-build social homes in 2022 than we have done in decades. Approximately 10,500 social homes will be delivered for people who are on the social housing list. Some of the sheltered response we have for our friends from Ukraine are not permanent homes, such as the refurbished properties. I know the Deputy is not suggesting we would use that same response for people on the social housing list-----

Photo of Peadar TóibínPeadar Tóibín (Meath West, Aontú)
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Other places have.

Photo of Darragh O'BrienDarragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal, Fianna Fail)
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No, they have not.

Photo of Peadar TóibínPeadar Tóibín (Meath West, Aontú)
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They have.

Photo of Darragh O'BrienDarragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal, Fianna Fail)
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What I am saying is that we very clearly set out under Housing for All what our social housing targets are. What I am looking to do next year is to further accelerate that delivery through the use of off-site and modular construction. I have already mentioned in my response to the Deputy that we have provided €100 million with regard to pay-down debt for local authorities, not just to pay it down. That is the legacy debt on lands because of land purchase. It is on the basis that one starts the delivery on those sites next year using predominantly modern methods of construction. We will manage that centrally and keep the House, the Deputy and all others who are interested-----

Photo of Peadar TóibínPeadar Tóibín (Meath West, Aontú)
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Thus, modular homes will not be used for housing.

Photo of Cormac DevlinCormac Devlin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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Through the Chair.

Photo of Darragh O'BrienDarragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal, Fianna Fail)
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What part of my answer does the Deputy not understand? I have just said for the past few minutes that, of course, we are using modern methods of construction and modular construction. We are already doing that but we will be using additional good-quality, off-site construction builds under modern methods of construction, next year, in the programme we have set and has been debated in this Dáil and which we have been very public about, to ramp up the further delivery of social housing. It has nothing to do with the emergency response with regard to Ukraine. It is separate to that.

Photo of Cormac DevlinCormac Devlin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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Go raibh maith agat, a Theachta.

Photo of Darragh O'BrienDarragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal, Fianna Fail)
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Let us not blur the lines.