Dáil debates

Thursday, 24 November 2022

Saincheisteanna Tráthúla - Topical Issue Debate

Schools Amalgamation

5:45 pm

Photo of Aodhán Ó RíordáinAodhán Ó Ríordáin (Dublin Bay North, Labour)
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The Minister for Education was in touch with my office to state she has other commitments this evening. Therefore, I appreciate the attendance of the Minister of State. I am interested in hearing what he has to say on behalf of the Government.

The Minister of State will appreciate that when Deputies get 20 or 30 emails on a particular issue, they know something has gone drastically wrong.

A review of the schools in Raheny parish is taking place. When I made contact with the office of the archbishop, the representative informed me this is one of a number of reviews. I understand 29 schools in 11 parishes, of which Raheny is one, are under review. I was told there is an independent facilitator whose role is to consult, listen and be part of the information flow. This is a process done in tandem with the patron body and Department of Education. Given that I used to be in that position as a school principal, as a rule I do not get involved in individual school issues regarding the future. It is an issue for an individual school and its patron body. These matters do not need to be politicised unnecessarily. However, this has a political component to it because the Department of Education is involved. The process is being so mishandled that, regardless of one's view on the future of primary schools in Raheny, everybody would feel as if they are not being heard, the independent facilitator is not doing the job properly and there has to be a restart.

Anybody who knows anything about my politics will know that I believe in divestment and that having a disproportionate number of schools under one particular patron is not healthy. Anybody who knows anything about my political view would know that I do not believe single gender schools, in particular at primary level, can stand up to scrutiny. In Raheny there are two single gender schools and a mixed infant school and, I understand, after a period of consultation there is a proposal that one school would divest and the two remaining schools under Catholic patronage may be reconfigured along co-educational lines.

Speaking to the representative of the archbishop, I asked him plainly whether there is an absolute guarantee that anyone who wants to have his or her child educated through the Catholic ethos in Raheny will have capacity for that to continue into the future. He said, categorically, "Yes". He said that to me, but that is not the understanding or knowledge of many people who have contacted me.

I ask that the Minister of Education take control of the situation because clearly if people are forced to contact a local representative, they feel they are not being heard. We also need to hear the views of those who do not have children currently attending schools in Raheny but who live in the area. They may have a one, two or three-year-old child and would like to know if they could have some say as to what the reconfiguration of schools would be.

To put it bluntly, this situation has got out of control. It is not working for anybody, including staff or parents. I ask the Minister for Education to intervene and ensure that the independent facilitator of the process does his job effectively because currently there is a lot of concern and insecurity about the future of schools and people feel as if they are not being listened to.

5:55 pm

Photo of Frank FeighanFrank Feighan (Sligo-Leitrim, Fine Gael)
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As the Deputy knows, I am taking this matter on behalf of the Minister for Education. I thank the Deputy for raising this matter. It gives me the opportunity to set out for the House the position with regard to the schools reconfiguration engagement process that is ongoing in a number of pilot areas nationwide, including a number of primary schools in the Raheny area.

In March this year, the Minister for Education announced that arrangements were being put in place for a number of towns and areas in cities that have no multidenominational primary schools at present as part of the pilot reconfiguration initiative. This work involves identifying potential schools and engaging with school authorities, staff and the school communities, including parents, with a view to agreeing on a transfer of patronage and change of ethos where there is sufficient demand for this.

Where a school transfers from one patron to another, it remains open with the same roll number and operating on the same school property. All State-funded primary schools follow a common national curriculum and are subject to the same rules and regulations, as the Deputy knows. The council for education of the Irish episcopal conference, representing the Catholic patrons, and relevant bishops have confirmed their willingness to engage and co-operate fully with the Department of Education in seeking to facilitate a more diverse school patronage in these towns and cities. The pilot areas are part of the cities of Cork, Dublin, Galway and Limerick and the Arklow, Athlone, Dundalk and Youghal areas.

The Department has made available a number of independent facilitators across the pilot areas to work with the school patron and relevant school authorities at a local level to progress the reconfiguration pilot initiative and engage with stakeholders, including school authorities, staff and parents. The work aims to agree on a transfer of patronage and change of ethos to multidenominational, where there is sufficient demand for this in the pilot areas.

Among the pilot areas being engaged with to consider if there is demand for the transfer patronage and change of ethos to multidenominational are three schools, Naíscoil Íde, Scoil Áine and Scoil Assaim, in the Raheny area. For clarity, no decision has been taken to transfer patronage of any of the three schools. There is an ongoing engagement process. In this respect, the relevant facilitator has met the school authorities and staff. Dates have been set for the facilitator's information meetings with parents of children in the three schools.

A key part of the structured engagement process in the pilot area is the information meeting with parents, where the facilitator makes a presentation to parents providing information on the school's reconfiguration process initiative, including information on what this may mean for parents and pupils and setting out the steps in the engagement process. At the information meetings with the facilitator, parents will have the opportunity to raise any questions and share their views.

The information meetings are useful from the perspective of the facilitator and patron representative in helping to gauge the level of demand for a transfer of patronage and change of ethos. Parents can share their views at the information meetings with the facilitator and also by email to the Department for Education's reconfiguration email address. Such correspondence will be shared with the relevant facilitator.

The Deputy called for an independent facilitator and patron body representatives to meet, and asked that the Minister intervene. I will bring those views back to the Minister.

Photo of Aodhán Ó RíordáinAodhán Ó Ríordáin (Dublin Bay North, Labour)
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There are two issues. One is that the independent facilitator has indicated that he will "read the room". No matter what side of the debate one is on, whether one wants divestment, co-educational schools or for things to remain exactly as they are, an independent facilitator saying to a group of parents or anybody that it will be his determination what the temperature is by just reading the room is not particularly scientific and does not give anybody any sense that this will be done in a fair manner.

Second, I contend that the parents of a two-year-old have more skin in the game than the parents of somebody in sixth class. Yet, the parents of a child in sixth class, who is leaving a school next year, have more of a say in what the future of the school will be than somebody whose child is aged two, three or four, lives close to the school and intends to send their child to that school. The views of such parents are not being canvassed, yet they live in the area and surely have a view.

This is why I am asking the Minister to intervene and communicate with the independent facilitator. We cannot ask people to have faith in a process when a determination will be made by facilitator who is going to read the temperature of a room. What if my child is aged two, three or four, I live in Raheny and have an interest in what happens to the future of these schools? Surely we should find a mechanism in the school catchment area to canvass the views of those who live locally and whose children will soon be of school-going age . As I said, those parents have more of a stake in this process than somebody whose child is in sixth class and is leaving the school and has no other children going through the school.

Those are two reasonable points and the Minister of State needs to hear them and communicate them back. Otherwise, we are going to have a divisive process – indeed, we already have one – that will satisfy no one. Schools are magical places. We need to ensure they remain so and not have division.

6:05 pm

Photo of Frank FeighanFrank Feighan (Sligo-Leitrim, Fine Gael)
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I will bring the Deputy's views and concerns back to the Minister. Engagement on the three schools the Deputy referred to in Raheny is ongoing and no decision in respect of the transfer of patronage from the Catholic patron to a multidenominational one has been made at this stage. As part of the structured engagement process, information meetings with the facilitator have been set up with parents in the three schools. The facilitator will provide them with information on the process, answer queries and provide an opportunity for parents to share their views. Parents and the school community can also email the Department at reconfiguration_dublin@education.gov.ieto ask questions or share their views.

As part of the structured engagement process, the facilitator and school patrons, or the patrons' representatives where appropriate, review the engagement as part of each information session with the school community. The facilitator writes a preliminary report reflecting the engagement with the school authorities, staff and parents and submits this to the patron. In pilot areas where the engagement has already progressed to this stage, the facilitator's preliminary report to the patron was circulated to the full school community and a dedicated reconfiguration email address was provided so that the school community, including parents, could provide feedback or views. The Department collated this and provided it to the relevant facilitator.

As the Deputy knows, this is an ongoing engagement process with the school community and I encourage the school community in this and other areas where the pilot engagement process is in train to share their views with facilitators and the Department. The overarching aim of this process is to offer greater choice to parents in areas where the availability of multidenominational schools is limited.

I thank the Deputy for raising this issue. I will bring his points to the Minister.