Dáil debates

Thursday, 24 November 2022

Ceisteanna ó Cheannairí - Leaders' Questions

 

12:00 pm

Photo of Pearse DohertyPearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Tá sé tagtha chun solais go bhfuil táillí bóithre dola ar fud an Stáit le hardú go dtí an leibhéal is airde. Is buille ollmhór é seo d’oibrithe agus do theaghlaigh, ag am ina bhfuil praghsanna peitril agus díosail chomh hard is atá siad. Buailfidh na táillí seo go mór agus go díreach iad siúd atá ina gcónaí i bpobail tuaithe nach bhfuil mórán rogha acu ach a gcuid carranna a úsáid de bharr ganntanas iompar poiblí. Le linn na paindéime Covid-19, bhí ar na cáiníocóirí seasamh isteach agus na milliúin a íoc leis na comhlachtaí dola seo. Anois de bharr an chonartha luachmhair seo ó ré Fhianna Fáil, beidh ar thiománaithe na tíre níos mó arís á íoc. Níor cheart go rachaidh na méaduithe seo ar aghaidh. Tá cúram ar an Rialtas cinntiú nach dtarlóidh sé seo.

We are in the middle of a cost-of-living crisis and nearly every day brings bad news to individuals. This morning we learned from the Governor of the Central Bank that mortgage interests will again rise next month when the ECB meets, despite the Tánaiste and his party voting against even considering the mortgage interest relief we put forward last night.

This week people also learned that tolls are to increase across the State to their maximum level. This is a massive blow to workers and families, coming at a time of record fuel prices. These road toll increases will hurt commuters and disproportionately impact those living in rural areas, who are forced to use a private car because the options of public transport rarely exist.

The lucrative contracts for toll roads have been a loser for the State year on year. During the Covid-19 pandemic the taxpayer had to step in and pay toll operators millions of taxpayers' euro. These companies are profitable. The M3 toll operator recorded a profit of €11 million in 2021. The M1 toll operator had an operating profit of €8 million in the same year. Due to these gold-plated Fianna Fáil-era contracts, motorists are being asked to fork out even more on higher tolls. It is not lost on people that their wages do not go up in line with inflation but the Government has ensured through these contracts that the profits of toll operators do. These firms are not struggling to get by and these increases are all about protecting private profit.

The Government needs to intervene and bring all the pressure to bear that it can on operators and on Transport Infrastructure Ireland. These increases should not go ahead and it is the Government's job to make sure they do not. So far we have seen no urgency in relation to this. The Tánaiste said the Government would intervene but we have not seen that yet. The Minister for Transport, Deputy Eamon Ryan, was aware of the proposal before it became public and did nothing about it. Yesterday the Tánaiste's party and Government colleague, the Minister of State, Deputy Naughton, admitted at the transport committee that the Department was aware of this as early as September, yet nothing was done.

The Tánaiste cannot say he was blindsided. The question for motorists across the State concerns what will happen now. The priority has to be to support workers and businesses facing the worst cost-of-living crisis in a generation. Will the Tánaiste give a commitment on behalf of the Government that the proposed hikes, which are due to take place at the start of next year, will not go ahead as planned?

Photo of Leo VaradkarLeo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I thank the Deputy. I acknowledge that Ireland faces a cost-of-living crisis, as does most of the world, and we are seeing inflation at levels not seen for a generation. That impacts different people and households in different ways. People who drive and commute are affected in a serious way because the price of petrol and diesel is so high at the moment, notwithstanding the reductions in excise duty. For that reason, any increase in tolls is extremely unwelcome.

I represent a commuter constituency, Dublin West. A huge number of people cross that toll bridge every day in both directions and this will probably add something like €100 per year to their cost of living. That is not a small amount of money during a cost-of-living crisis.

I have looked into this matter. The rules around tolls work differently depending on whether the asset, road or bridge is under the control of the Government or not. The M50 is different to Dublin Port, which is different again to the public private partnership roads. As things stand, the maximum toll is linked to inflation and the consumer price index. There has not been an increase in nine years because inflation was very low but now that inflation is very high, that increase kicks in. It is proposed to impose it on motorists from 1 January. The maximum toll being set at a certain level does not mean it has to be applied. You can have a maximum price and not charge it.

Over the next few weeks, we will try to find a way to mitigate the impact of that for motorists. There would be a cost involved of around €25 million or €30 million. It is not a small amount of money but we are working with TII and the Department of Transport to see if we can do something to mitigate or defer that increase, which does not kick in until 1 January. I cannot give a solid, cast-iron commitment today because contracts are involved. The companies the Deputy referred to will want their contracts honoured. They will go to court if they are not, and probably succeed. They will also point out the money does not go into the general Exchequer but is ring-fenced for road maintenance and improvements. The cost of all that has increased as well, including the cost of labour and of materials.

I fully understand this is a most unwelcome increase for motorists and is coming at the worst possible time. We will work with the Department of Transport and TII to see if we can come up with solutions between now and 1 January.

Photo of Pearse DohertyPearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Motorists listening to the Tánaiste will find it incredible, including the people he says he represents in his constituency who use tolls. TII put out a notification last year. Tolls increased this year already across eight roads. That has already happened and the second increase will take effect on 1 January. These tolls are increasing unless there is Government action.

The Tánaiste is suggesting two things, first that they have not increased in the last year. That is not true. They did increase this year. Second, the Tánaiste is suggesting that they may not increase in January. They will increase unless there is Government action. The Minister for Transport, Deputy Eamon Ryan, has told us he is not minded to do anything on this. The Tánaiste says the Government was blindsided despite his party colleague who sits at the Cabinet table, the Minister of State, Deputy Naughton, saying they were aware of this since early September. It is only now because of public outrage and the fact we are so deep into a cost-of-living crisis that Government Members are scrambling around like headless chickens, not knowing what to do.

People need to know, because there are only a few weeks left of sittings here. What will happen between now and the end of the year? Will the Government intervene? Can the Tánaiste give any assurances that these tolls will not go ahead?

Photo of Leo VaradkarLeo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The briefing I was given was that there had not been an increase in the maximum toll for nine years. That may well be incorrect-----

Photo of Catherine MurphyCatherine Murphy (Kildare North, Social Democrats)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It is correct.

Photo of Leo VaradkarLeo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

-----and I will get that double-checked today.

In terms of information, I was not informed, nor were the Taoiseach or the Cabinet, but I accept the doctrine of collective responsibility and if Ministers were aware, then the Government was collectively aware. The question now is what we can do about it. I would like to be able to give a cast-iron commitment today but it would not be responsible to do so until we have explored the options. I think what the Minister, Deputy Ryan, said was that he would not like to see the roads budget being reduced as a consequence, or for money to be taken out of public transport. I understand where he is coming from. We will have to see if we can find another way to mitigate or defer these increases. They do not kick in until January. We have a bit of time and are working on it.

Photo of Catherine MurphyCatherine Murphy (Kildare North, Social Democrats)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Tánaiste gave an interview at the weekend that caused a lot of anger. He said young people considering emigrating because of the extortionate housing costs could find the grass is always greener. He said if they go to a successful busy city, they will find the same high rents as here but the rents could be lower if they went to "a very rural area or a third or fourth tier city".

Does the Tánaiste know we have the highest housing costs in the EU? Housing costs here are an astonishing 88.5% higher than the EU average. Unless the Tánaiste considers places like Paris and Rome fourth tier, he does not know what he is talking about.

Since he made those comments, young people living abroad have reacted with utter astonishment. Today's Irish Independent contains interviews with five young people living all over the world who were stunned by the Tánaiste's remarks. Evan McGloughlin, who is aged 24, said he has doubled his standard of living and halved his living costs by moving to Barcelona and 22-year-old Caitlin Grant is doing a masters in the Netherlands and her rent in a house share is €365 a month. Meanwhile the Group Chat podcast was inundated with stories of young people living abroad who were outraged by what the Tánaiste had to say. One contributor living in Berlin said the latest housing innovation in Dublin is shed-sits - sheds where the rent is more than €1,000 per month - and I could go on.

The latest daft.iereport shows that the average rent across the country is nearly €1,700 per month and a staggering €2,300 per month in Dublin. Those prices are unaffordable to 90% of workers. What will the Government to do about it? The Government has made many promises on housing and it has broken almost every single one. House prices are higher than they have ever been. Rents have never been higher and homelessness has never been higher. We are dreading the updated homelessness figures tomorrow, which are likely to show another record increase. Increasingly, children are growing up in homelessness. On every objective metric when it comes to housing, the Government is failing miserably. No amount of gaslighting by the Tánaiste or other Ministers will change that.

Yesterday he talked about a whole-of-government approach being needed to tackle this housing crisis. He said it is the role of the role of the Department of the Taoiseach to drive that forward. Given that the Tánaiste will soon be Taoiseach and leading that Department, I want to ask him a few questions on his approach. What specifically will he do as Taoiseach to drive the Government's response to the housing crisis? What will he expect from other Departments to address the housing emergency? When can we expect to see results in lower homelessness and more affordable rents and housing prices? Is the Tánaiste saying the current Taoiseach has not been doing enough to deliver on housing?

12:10 pm

Photo of Leo VaradkarLeo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I do not think it is correct to say what the Deputy said about every metric. I will just mention two, as she raised metrics. We anticipate this year between 20,000 and 28,000 new homes being built. That does not include derelict homes being brought back into use and student accommodation. Approximately 26,000 to 28,000 new houses and apartments will be built in Ireland this year. That is the highest in ten years and we need to increase that figure again next year. Although we have a long way to go, the most encouraging metric probably is that in the past 12 months alone 16,000 individuals or young couples have bought their first home. That is the highest in 15 years and 15 years is a long time. Just in the past month, more than 2,000 young people, individuals and couples, got mortgage approval. Those are some of the metrics that are at least going in the right direction, although by no means far enough or fast enough in my view.

I think the Taoiseach is doing an excellent job and I think the Minister, Deputy Darragh O'Brien, is also doing an excellent job. It is the role of the Taoiseach to co-ordinate and accelerate Government action. I absolutely want to see Housing for All implemented as fast as possible. No matter who is in that office, part of the role of the Taoiseach is to make sure that the whole of government is seized of the housing crisis, and prioritises action and solutions because the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage and his Department cannot do it on their own. It requires the Departments of Public Expenditure and Reform, and Finance to do the right things and it also requires other Departments to play the role they need to play, particularly with the provision of infrastructure to service sites. That is the impetus. That is happening and needs to continue.

The Deputy mentioned high rents. We are doing three things on high rents to help people who are renting. First, we are scaling up cost rental, a new form of housing initiated by the previous Government but being realised by this Government, where the Government provides rental properties to people who do not qualify for social housing at below market rate. It works very well in many European cities, but is only getting started in Ireland. It will definitely be part of our housing mix into the future. The second is a tax credit for people who are renting. That will be more than people think it will be because it is being paid for two years - this year and next year. That will mean €1,000 into the pockets of a single renter in a few weeks. For a couple renting it will be €2,000 and for three people sharing the same house, it will be €3,000 among them. In the vast majority of cases, that will be the best part of a month’s rent back into their pockets, which is not insignificant.

We have also introduced the rent pressure zone. It is useful to look at the daft.ieanalysis in detail. That shows that for the vast majority of existing renters - maybe 75% - rents rose by 2.5% last year, not 10% or 14%.

Photo of Catherine MurphyCatherine Murphy (Kildare North, Social Democrats)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I did not hear what the approach will be. The Tánaiste needs to tell us what that approach will be and what difference it will make. Is he aware that commencements are down by 30% in the past three months? Only yesterday there was a report about a reduction in the number of mortgage approvals, which is not a metric I want to see. What does the Tánaiste mean when he talks about the difference that a whole-of-government approach will make?

A large number of planning permissions are not being activated, which only increases the value of the land without seeing delivery of housing. I believe that on Saturday we will see quite lot of people out on the streets for the Raise the Roof rally that will take place in Dublin, starting in Parnell Square at 1 p.m.. People have been pushed to the point where they have lost hope. Does the Tánaiste regret up making those comments that were so ill-informed and have so angered people who can clearly show they are not true?

Photo of Leo VaradkarLeo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I referred to two cities - Sydney, where the average house price is AUD1 million, and rents in New York. The Deputy has represented what I said in a way that was not said and certainly not the way I intended it.

I believe Ireland is a great country in which to live. That is not just my opinion. The United Nations, which assesses these things objectively, put Ireland in the top ten countries in the world in which to live out of 200 countries. Everyone's lived experience is different and people travel abroad for all sorts of different reasons. I would not discount for a second anyone's lived experience or dispute the examples the Deputy gave earlier, but I do not think any individual's lived experience is everyone's. I need to look at things in the round. I see a country with thousands of people coming here every year from England and Europe to live. European citizens have 27 countries to choose from and tens of thousands come here. Even when it is narrowed down to Irish citizens, more Irish citizens return home every year than leave. It might not be true every year, but it has been true for most recent years. How does that fit in with the Deputy's narrative?

Photo of Catherine MurphyCatherine Murphy (Kildare North, Social Democrats)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It depends on the individual’s lived experience.

Photo of Leo VaradkarLeo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Of course, it does; everyone's experience is different.

Photo of Catherine MurphyCatherine Murphy (Kildare North, Social Democrats)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Many young people will not share that lived experience.

Photo of Denis NaughtenDenis Naughten (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

There is nothing more frightening than watching someone gasping for their breath. Despite the fact that we live on a windswept island off the west coast of Europe, every day four people die in Ireland due to poor air quality. Two of the key underlying statistics when it comes to these threats are, first, that one in five children in Ireland has asthma and, second, that one in 13 adults has chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, COPD, which is the disease that makes it hard to move air and in and out of the lungs. While so much can be done to manage COPD, just one in 45 adults in Ireland has been diagnosed with the condition. The vast majority of people are only diagnosed when they present with a medical emergency. That is why Ireland has the highest hospital admission rates in the developed world for COPD at twice the OECD average. This is conservatively costing our health service €120 million each year in hospital admissions alone.

As I said, so much can be done to manage COPD. One of the most innovative initiatives in the world is the warmth and well-being pilot scheme, which I launched as Minister in 2016. The pilot aimed to improve the health and well-bring outcomes of people in Dublin suffering from chronic respiratory disease through a home energy efficiency retrofit by making homes warming and more energy-efficient. Last week, Deputies and Senators were presented with the results of the pilot scheme, which were independently analysed by academic researchers from the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine. The empirical evidence shows that, among other things, there was a reduced usage of GP, emergency department and hospital services and a reduced volume of prescribed drugs - a win for our climate, a win for our health services and, most important, a win for people with chronic conditions, such as asthma and COPD. Yet there is no targeted investment in retrofitting these homes, and the better energy warmer homes scheme for those in fuel poverty has a waiting list of nearly three years. When is the Government going to properly manage chronic illnesses, such as COPD and asthma, and when will it properly support globally significant, innovative pilots, such as the warmth and well-being scheme, to address poor health outcomes in a comprehensive way?

12:20 pm

Photo of Leo VaradkarLeo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I thank the Deputy for raising this important issue. I know he is doing a lot of work as an advocate to highlight this matter. COPD, formerly known as emphysema or bronchitis, has a considerable impact on the quality of life of patients, families and carers. The course of the disease involves ongoing medical care and, in the case of certain patients, frequent hospital admissions.

It is estimated that 400,000 people live with COPD in Ireland, but only about 100,000 have been diagnosed. It is extraordinary to think that as many as three quarters of people with COPD are displaying symptoms but have not been diagnosed and, therefore, are not being treated or are not being treated optimally. Roughly 1,500 patients die every year as a result of COPD and the disease results in approximately 15,000 hospital admissions.

The COPD model of care was developed by the HSE in 2019 and it redefined the way health services are provided to people with the disease. The national clinical programme for respiratory medicine launched the guideline for the management to COPD in November last year. Through the implementation of these guidelines, the health service ensures the right care is delivered to people with COPD at the right time and in the right place in line with Sláintecare. The chronic disease management, CDM, programme provides a structured management programme for people who have one or more specific chronic diseases, of which COPD is one. The programme commenced in 2020 and is provided to all adult general medical services, GMS, patients.

Through the CDM contract, GPs are funded to provide structured reviews and interventions in line with the model of care. As of 1 October this year, 43,000 GMS patients received planned care from their GP in the community. The model of care also provides a continuum of patient-centred, specialist respiratory integrated care across both community-based ambulatory care hubs and their associated hospital. Through the enhanced community care programme, funding was secured for 30 ambulatory care hub-based specialist respiratory teams, consisting of 295 staff and approximately 100 dedicated pulmonary respiratory rehabilitation providers. A roll-out of these services has commenced in many areas and recruitment is under way to fill the remaining posts. These teams include dedicated specialist physios and nurses, who provide a comprehensive intervention with patient assessment and tailored therapies, including exercise, training, education and self-management.

Photo of Denis NaughtenDenis Naughten (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Before the pandemic, respiratory consultations made up 15% of GP attendances. While respiratory diseases account for less than 6% of inpatient discharges, they account for more than 12% of the bed days used in our hospitals. The developments in the CDM programme are welcome for people with conditions such as asthma and COPD but the difficulty is what happens when GPs makes that referral, because people end up in an Eircode postcode lottery. There is a stark contrast in the number of people waiting more than 12 months for an outpatient respiratory appointment in the regions compared to the number in Dublin, resulting in far poorer health outcomes. When will this Eircode postcode lottery be addressed?

Photo of Leo VaradkarLeo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The idea is to manage COPD, diabetes, hypertension, heart failure, and other chronic illnesses in the community, insofar as is possible. If those diseases are well managed in the community, and they can be in the majority of cases, the number of hospital admissions will be very low. However, there will always be people who need specialist care and need to see a consultant or be admitted to hospital. It is absolutely wrong that there should be a major discrepancy in waiting times to see a specialist in one region of the country versus another, and that is not justifiable. Part of the reason for the move to regional health areas is to deal with this. We will establish regional health areas across the country and funding will be based on the population and medical needs of the people in those areas so that funding can be rebalanced in an appropriate way. That is something we need to work on in the next year or two.

Photo of Richard O'DonoghueRichard O'Donoghue (Limerick County, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

As the proposed next Taoiseach of this country, I want the Tánaiste to sort out the mess in University Hospital Limerick, UHL. He appointed the management of this hospital and he has a duty of care to the people of Limerick and the mid-west region to get it sorted. Many people who attend UHL do not have the option of private healthcare and are unable to commute to other counties for healthcare. When contacting our offices, constituents have said they would rather die than go to this hospital. That is how serious it is.

People of counties Limerick, Tipperary, Clare and north Kerry are at risk of serious injury due to the lack of proper care at UHL. Staff are leaving in their droves. According to Trolley Watch figures, UHL consistently has the highest number of patients on trolleys. Over five days in November, the number of people on trolleys were 70, 84, 70, 87 and 88, all of whom were vulnerable. Some 98 new beds were opened in December 2020 so that there would be no more people left waiting on trolleys. Where is the accountability?

Seemingly, when the expert from the Department of Health was put in place recently, there was no one on trolleys, which is amazing. I ask the management team to step down immediately and that a proper investigation be conducted, with prosecutions if needed. I understand 70 doctors made a protected disclosure to the HSE explaining the conditions in UHL. The Tánaiste is a doctor. He trained in healthcare and qualified as a doctor. I am pleading with him, as I have pleaded with other Ministers, to help us in UHL.

Jessica Sheedy, a young girl, died on 11 May 2018. I have permission to mention her name. The investigation is still ongoing, and is going around in circles, but we can now see that paperwork has been tampered with. I refer to the case of Savita Halappanavar in Galway. There were investigations into paperwork being changed in this case. I recently watched a documentary on a true case in America, I think, where a person was going around killing people in hospitals. They were caught and sentenced, as they should be.

We now have a serious problem in UHL. I said it on the first day I came into the Dáil that the management is wrong. For the safety of patients and the healthcare staff in the hospital, I am pleading with the Government to investigate this hospital and get the management to step down. The information is there and it is coming from all parties in this House. Different Deputies have mentioned it on more than one occasion. It has even been mentioned in the Seanad. We need the Government's help. Can it step up and help us, please?

Photo of Leo VaradkarLeo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I acknowledge the situation in UHL is grave. The hospital suffers from a high level of overcrowding almost all the time.

There has been a lot of investment in the hospital in recent years. The budget has never been greater. Notwithstanding the difficulties in recruiting and retaining staff, there have never been more staff. I include medical and clinical staff in that. Extra beds have been provided and there is a whole new emergency department, which the Deputy will be aware of. I guarantee that these issues and concerns regarding the hospital are raised with me by Government Deputies, particularly those from Clare, Limerick and north Tipperary, all of the time.

On the management of the hospital, the Deputy may not be aware, but I am happy to clarify for the Dáil that hospital managers are not appointed by Government nor do we have the authority to dismiss them. They are employees hired in the normal way in which public sector employees are hired and they have basic rights under law to have their good names protected and to have any complaints against them heard fairly, following a particular process. I am a little uncomfortable to hear any staff being criticised in the House, where we are protected by privilege. We need to be careful about that but I will leave the matter there. I will certainly let the Minister for Health know that Deputy O'Donoghue has raised these matters.

12:30 pm

Photo of Richard O'DonoghueRichard O'Donoghue (Limerick County, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I see that the Tánaiste has a minute and half left to speak. He could not even complete the three or four minutes he was allocated. Some €23 billion has been allocated for health. How much has been spent on cover-ups and non-disclosure agreements? There are 70 health professionals and doctors who have come to the Government but who have now been silenced. How many people are out sick because of the issues in UHL? Will the Tánaiste look at the number of staff who are leaving the hospital? I do not want to name and blame anyone. I am here for the protection of the people of Limerick and the surrounding areas who use this hospital. For years, I have asked the Government to help. There is a serious problem with management. If it was any other business, they would be gone. It was noted in the newspapers that the Tánaiste asked the CEO to take up that position. Will he now investigate this matter? I ask him to help the people of Limerick and the surrounding areas, stop the cover-ups, spend the money on healthcare and check out the amount of money being spent on legal services and the silencing of staff. For the betterment of the people of this country, we need them to know they can go to this hospital. I am from Limerick. I want UHL to be the best hospital in the country and I am very disappointed that it is not. People from Limerick and the surrounding areas are asking for our help. I ask the Tánaiste to please investigate this matter for me.

Photo of Leo VaradkarLeo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Deputy O'Donoghue has made a number of allegations with regard to cover-ups and other things. I do not know if those allegations are true and I do not have any powers to investigate them. However, if the Deputy has evidence to back them up, I would encourage-----

Photo of Richard O'DonoghueRichard O'Donoghue (Limerick County, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It is coming shortly and it will all be here. I have asked for help for years and the Government stopped it.

Photo of Leo VaradkarLeo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It is impossible for me to comment on allegations of cover-ups without knowing the specifics or what evidence the Deputy has. If he has evidence to support his claims, I ask him to make it available to the relevant authorities. To clarify, in case it was not clear from my original response, I do not have and have never had any role in the appointment of hospital managers.

Photo of Catherine ConnollyCatherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I understand the seriousness of the issue but Deputy O'Donoghue has said quite categorically that documents were tampered with. I presume he means to say "allegedly". I ask the Deputy to be careful.

Photo of Richard O'DonoghueRichard O'Donoghue (Limerick County, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

We will say "allegedly" for the moment but, if the Tánaiste will agree to meet with me personally, I may be able to update him further.

Photo of Catherine ConnollyCatherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

That is okay. It was just important to say that.