Dáil debates

Thursday, 24 November 2022

Ceisteanna ar Sonraíodh Uain Dóibh – Priority Questions

School Staff

11:30 am

Photo of Donnchadh Ó LaoghaireDonnchadh Ó Laoghaire (Cork South Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

69. To ask the Minister for Education and Skills her plans, if any, to change conditions for teachers coming from abroad to qualify for incremental credit such as, but not limited to, staff who held a part-time role in a recognised school setting abroad; and if she will outline any other actions that may attract teachers to return to the Irish education system. [58471/22]

Photo of Donnchadh Ó LaoghaireDonnchadh Ó Laoghaire (Cork South Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

We spoke earlier about trying to ensure that teachers who are abroad will be attracted to come back to lay their roots here and get jobs. One challenge and disincentive can arise if they feel as though they are going to enter the system at the bottom despite being experienced teachers. I have come across several cases of teachers, which I will detail in a moment, who feel as though they would be disadvantaged and would enter the system at the bottom despite their experience and, therefore, they are inclined not to come back.

Photo of Norma FoleyNorma Foley (Kerry, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The criteria for the award of incremental credit to recognised teachers were agreed under the auspices of the Teachers Conciliation Council, TCC. This council comprises representatives of teachers, school management and the Departments of Public Expenditure and Reform and Education. The council is chaired by an official of the Workplace Relations Commission. The TCC meets at least every two months and the agenda is agreed between the Department and the teacher unions. The award criteria for incremental credit are laid out in the Department’s circulars for primary teachers and post-primary teachers. These circulars provide for the awarding of incremental credit for both teaching service and relevant non-teaching service that has taken place abroad.

Under the auspices of the TCC, a subcommittee has been set up to deal with incremental credit issues. Officials from my Department are considering a submission that the teachers’ unions lodged at the TCC subcommittee regarding the rules relating to incremental credit. An update on the progress of this work is provided at each TCC meeting. On conclusion of these negotiations at the TCC, the Department plans to replace existing circulars with a consolidated circular that will be applicable to both primary and post-primary teachers.

The TCC subcommittee meets four times per year and is currently considering many items including the removal of the seven-year cap on incremental credit for teaching service outside of the EU and the alignment of primary and post-primary rules relating to service in private schools outside the EU. Work is ongoing on this submission and the next subcommittee meeting is scheduled for January 2023.

As for measures to attract teachers returning to the Irish education system, I fully appreciate that, as the Deputy noted, this issue is a consideration for many of them. Nevertheless, it is a significant step forward that we have the subcommittee and the issue of incremental credit is being adjudicated on, discussed and engaged with by it

Photo of Donnchadh Ó LaoghaireDonnchadh Ó Laoghaire (Cork South Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I find the Minister's response encouraging, in which she identified some of the issues we are talking about. I can think of two examples, from Australia and Vietnam, where somebody was teaching at a private school that is well recognised by that state's authorities and operates in line with its curriculum and so on.

Despite having seven or eight years of experience in those schools, on returning home they would be treated as if they were just newly qualified. That is a severe disincentive.

Is it possible to get a timescale on how this process will proceed? I am not suggesting that it needs to be rushed or anything like that, but how long will it be before the new consolidated circular is available?

11:40 am

Photo of Norma FoleyNorma Foley (Kerry, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I appreciate that a body of work needs to be done in this regard. As the Deputy acknowledged, it is positive that this is now the work and consideration of the sub-committee.

We must be clear that the Teachers' Conciliation Council is made up of a variety of bodies. It is not just the Department of Education. It is also made up of teachers' representatives, school management and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform in order that there is a full, frank and open discussion as regards what we can do.

It is my hope and expectation that this will be prioritised in terms of moving it apace. There is an absolute commitment around looking with priority at the specific issues I already raised, whether it is the seven-year cap for those outside of the EU or the alignment of primary and post-primary conditions into one system. The next meeting of the subcommittee is scheduled to take place in January. It is difficult to give a particular timeline but it is being given the highest priority.

Photo of Donnchadh Ó LaoghaireDonnchadh Ó Laoghaire (Cork South Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I will forward to the Minister some correspondence I received. If she is taking on board what the Teachers' Union of Ireland is saying, she might take on board what I am saying.

I will also flag to her a different type of issue that arose in Britain which, at the time, was still a member of the EU. A particular teacher was working on a job-sharing basis in a recognised public school, although that is not really at the heart of the issue. This teacher taught for six years, working three days per week in a job-share capacity in this particular school. They hoped on their return to be able to receive incremental credit pro rata. The circulars as they stand for people working within the EU only recognise full-time jobs, however, despite the fact that had this person been working in the Irish education system for the same six years on a job-share basis, the person would have accrued pro rataincremental credit. There is, therefore, an inequality that needs to be addressed. This person is fully qualified and wants to work in the system but is disincentivised because it would be starting at the beginning, even though the person has been working for six years job-sharing in Britain. That is not fair and needs to be addressed.

Photo of Norma FoleyNorma Foley (Kerry, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

For my own clarity, is that somebody who is working in the primary sector?

Photo of Donnchadh Ó LaoghaireDonnchadh Ó Laoghaire (Cork South Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

This person is working in the primary sector.

Photo of Norma FoleyNorma Foley (Kerry, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The current process as we know it has been in operation for more than 20 years now. Over the years, a number of amendments have been made. As we said, there is now an opportunity to address very specifically some of the issue that have been raised and, indeed, the wider issues I raised earlier. The fact is that this process has been operating for more than 20 years and within that period we have seen amendments, which shows the openness to looking at new opportunities to address situations as they arise. I am very happy to take the details of the case Deputy Ó Laoghaire wishes to share with me. As I said, work is moving apace and this is being prioritised.