Ivana Bacik (Dublin Bay South, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

5. To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on the work of the parliamentary liaison unit within his Department. [35872/22]

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The parliamentary liaison unit in my Department assists Government in its relationship with the Oireachtas. It works with the Office of the Government Chief Whip on issues that arise at the Business Committee and the Committee on Dáil Reform and Standing Orders, including Dáil reform proposals and amendments to Standing Orders. The unit supports the Office of the Government Chief Whip in the implementation of the Government’s legislative programme. In addition, the unit assists the office of the leader of the Green Party in work relating to Cabinet, Cabinet committees and oversight of the implementation of the programme for Government. In carrying out these duties, it provides detailed information on upcoming matters in the Dáil and Seanad; highlights any new Oireachtas reform issues, and provides assistance in engaging with the new processes arising from Dáil reform. The unit is staffed by 3.5 whole time equivalent staff: one principal officer, one administrative officer, 0.5 higher executive officer, and one clerical officer.

Ivana Bacik (Dublin Bay South, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I thank the Taoiseach for providing the information on the parliamentary liaison unit, which, as we know, provides detailed information on matters upcoming in the Dáil and Seanad and carries out a number of other functions. I want to raise with the Taoiseach a particular issue pertaining to a service which has been providing a similar service to the public, namely, the Citizens Information service, which over some decades now has been providing a very important face-to-face service across our communities but about which we are hearing increasing concerns. We have seen changes to the service, the closure of face-to-face offices, a failure to reopen offices after Covid and a whole-scale movement online of these vital information services. Indeed, over the summer, this issue was raised extensively on "Liveline", as people around the country spoke of their concern about hearing their local services were being closed.

4 o’clock

In my constituency, Dublin Bay South, we held a public meeting in Rathmines about the failure to reopen the local office there. Our local Labour Party councillor, Mary Freehill, and I both had extensive engagement with members of the public about their concerns on this issue. We had a big turnout at a town hall meeting we held in Rathmines and we heard from those who had been volunteers with the service, and more importantly, from those who had been using the service, including clients of the service and those who had benefited from the face-to-face access to information that it had provided to them. A whole-scale movement online goes against the ethos of the Citizens Information centres and service. Labour's Frank Cluskey had originally insisted on the establishment of Citizens Information services in order that people would not effectively be dependent on Dáil Deputies' clinics to find out their rights and to be able to engage with Departments and local authorities. Now we have a situation where we are seeing face-to-face and community services being stripped down and closed down. I appeal to the Taoiseach and to the Minister for Social Protection, Deputy Humphreys, to ensure there is sufficient resourcing to enable the maintenance and retention of face-to-face community services, such as Citizens Information services of this kind, which have provided such an important bridge to many local communities and individuals in accessing information about their rights and the sort of entitlements they have from the State. Without this sort of face-to-face service, many disadvantaged individuals and households are really affected and feel they have nowhere to turn.

Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, RISE)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The role of the parliamentary liaison unit is to ensure that dialogue and so on take place on the implementation of the Government’s legislative programme. Part of the agreed Government legislative programme is a referendum to enshrine water in public ownership in the Constitution. This is a matter of considerable public debate. A mass movement defeated water charges and in the aftermath, the Government said there would be no problem about having a referendum and that we would have public ownership of water. It is six years since Deputy Joan Collins first introduced her Bill to enshrine water in public ownership in the Constitution. That is deliberately bogged down in Committee Stage. It has been a few months since the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage said we should not worry and that we would have a referendum this year or early next year. For the water workers, who are due to transfer from councils across the country to Irish Water on 1 January, that is not good enough. From their point of view, they have no guarantee that Irish Water will not be privatised in the future and they are being transferred over to a company that is a semi-State company now but could be privatised in the future, unless there is a referendum. They want a date. When will the referendum on the public ownership of water take place?

Martin Kenny (Sligo-Leitrim, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Nearly a year has passed since the Government agreed the redress scheme for mother and baby home survivors, many of whom are elderly and getting on in life. I seek a reassurance from the Taoiseach that the legislation to progress this scheme will be published and that the scheme will be opened as a matter of urgency. As we know, many of the unfortunate survivors of these homes are at the gates of the Dáil again today, as they have been many times in the past.

I also want to briefly raise with the Taoiseach the matter of the decision by the Minister for Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth, Deputy O'Gorman, to renege on his promise of an independent review of the mother and baby home confidential committee testimony. I am not sure whether the Taoiseach was aware of the decision to renege on this commitment to survivors. If so, can he explain why the Minister did not engage directly with the survivors earlier this year on his decision? After a lot of missteps by this Government and those before it in dealing with institutional abuse, it is simply unacceptable for it to be left to journalists to uncover the Minister’s decisions. I understand that it may be hard for the Taoiseach to hear this but survivors have lost trust in the Government on this issue and that is the reality. The Minister, with the support of the Taoiseach, needs to re-engage with survivors as a matter of urgency and ensure the redress scheme is put in place.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I do not know how many schemes there are where it has been suggested that somebody needs to co-ordinate between Departments on the issue of disability. It has also been suggested that the Department of the Taoiseach should take a lead role on this. We should bear in mind that we signed up to the United Nations Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities, UNCRPD. I find the Taoiseach's earlier response on what has happened to be shocking. This was a door-to-door transport service for people with powered wheelchairs and three or four buses used to take hundreds of people every day, for years, to medical appointments and to allow them to have a social life because they cannot use the normal public transport system. By the way, this service did not get a cent from the Department of Transport and it has been begging for a year for money to replace its buses and to deal with a financial shortfall. This company should not even have to exist because public transport should be doing its job. It is a not-for-profit involving mostly volunteers and the service is gone. Some of the most vulnerable people have no way to get to doctor's appointments and to get out of the isolation of their homes next week.

Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

There is no time left to reply. I call Deputy Joan Collins.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I appeal to the Taoiseach to do something about this.

Joan Collins (Dublin South Central, Independents 4 Change)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I want to briefly come in on a point Deputy Paul Murphy raised on the referendum on the public ownership of water. When will we see that coming through? My Bill, which was backed by the Right2Water campaign, has been buried in Committee Stage for the last number of years and at this stage we are told that a referendum on water will only take place along with a referendum on housing being a human right. Can the Taoiseach tell us when that will happen?

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

There are a number of issues there and in fairness to Deputy Martin Kenny I did not answer his last question-----

Martin Kenny (Sligo-Leitrim, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I understand that.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

-----in the last bout, for which I apologise. There is national implementation board oversight between the Department of Justice and my Department and that is working well. We launched and published the strategy itself just before the summer recess and that will report to the Cabinet subcommittee on social affairs and equality. We have outlined that to the Deputy’s party leader and to the other party leaders when we consulted them prior to the publication of the strategy, so we have to give it time.

Martin Kenny (Sligo-Leitrim, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It meets so infrequently.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

No concerns were really raised at that stage. It was only just before the summer. We will allay any concerns we can and there will be proper oversight of the implementation of the strategy.

On the issues the Deputy raised on the survivors of mother and baby homes, to be fair to the Minister overall, this Government has moved on a range of issues and has got action and delivery. The Birth Information and Tracing Act 2022, for example, was published and the general scheme of the mother and baby institutions payment scheme Bill that the Deputy raised was published on 29 March. My understanding is that it has gone through pre-legislative scrutiny. In any event, the intention is to take it through in this session before Christmas. We will work with the Members of the House to progress that. Then there is the legislation on exhumation, which has been passed and published, so a lot of work has been done right across the board. A memorialisation centre for the inner city is important and a range of massive investment will happen there.

Then there is the issue the Deputy raised-----

Martin Kenny (Sligo-Leitrim, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The review of the confidential committee testimony.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Again, the Minister is in constant contact with survivor organisations. There are limits to how he can interfere with the commission because of the legal framework governing commissions of investigation and the manner in which they are set up and that has been problematic but he wants to publish in full the testimonies and he will work with survivor organisations to discuss that issue and other issues.

Deputy Bacik raised the issue of-----

Ivana Bacik (Dublin Bay South, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Citizens Information offices.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I would share the Deputy's concerns and I have heard reports on a change in the non-opening of Citizens Information centres. They have been one of the great and enduring civic actions of citizen empowerment and participation down through the years and I would be a strong advocate of them. When I was Lord Mayor of Cork, I had the honour of granting the freedom of the city to Maureen Curtis-Black, who was a great early advocate of citizens information. I will come back to the Deputy on that and check out exactly what is happening with that. These are issues that should evolve over time and having an online service should be complementary. We know that not all people are in a position to access online information and sometimes that human interaction matters in allaying concerns that certain people may have.

Ivana Bacik (Dublin Bay South, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I thank the Taoiseach. I will continue to engage with him.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Deputy Paul Murphy should acknowledge that significant progress has been made in recent years in cementing the public ownership dimension of Irish Water in terms of the State structure that has been introduced. There is no question about that.

I do not believe there is any reason for workers to be concerned. The fundamental issue around the referendum on water is control of a natural resource, besides the mechanisms by which it is managed. Be it an agency or local authorities, that is a matter for ongoing debate. It is State-owned and the State is the shareholder. It is a precious resource on which we must continue to work. The Minister has committed to a referendum on it. It is a referendum that will deal with the broader issue of ownership of water.

Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, RISE)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

When will it be?

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I said he is working on it. We will get a timeline when we are ready for it.

Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, RISE)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Will it be this year?

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Lads, we have had two years of Covid.

Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, RISE)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

So the Taoiseach could not progress a referendum in Covid.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

We could not have had a referendum during Covid. We have a lot going on.

Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

We are way over time. I know it is the first day back but please let the Taoiseach complete his response.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Thirty seconds for my question.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

We went overboard on the first question to facilitate Deputies but they are milking it now.

Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

There will be no more facilitation.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I can see that.

Martin Kenny (Sligo-Leitrim, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Iron lady.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

On Deputy Boyd Barrett's point, generally speaking transport for special needs was financed through the education or health Departments. Many NGOs and not-for-profits were financed by the health Department in respect of transport facilities. That is the point I was asking him about.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I asked the Departments responsible for health and disability. They refused.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Can the Deputy send me a detailed email on that, outlining the background? He is saying they never got money.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I think they got some money, but not-----

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Deputy should give me the full details and we will follow it up. Give me the full background and we will see where we can identify a potential source of revenue.

The last question was from Deputy Joan Collins and dealt with the referendum as well.

Joan Collins (Dublin South Central, Independents 4 Change)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Is there no date?

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I do not have the date.

Joan Collins (Dublin South Central, Independents 4 Change)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It will be never-never.

Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

We are moving on and there is less time left for the questions now.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I was elected to a local authority in 1985. What was the major issue of the day? Water.

Joan Collins (Dublin South Central, Independents 4 Change)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

You have still not sorted it out.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It is well sorted. The only issue is it gave campaign fodder for some of you people around the table. We had dealt with it by the mid-1990s, and then there was a by-election somewhere in Dublin and the Labour Party-----

Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The only issue for me is timing, and we are running late.