Dáil debates

Wednesday, 1 June 2022

Ceisteanna - Questions

Taoiseach's Meetings and Engagements

1:02 pm

Photo of Neale RichmondNeale Richmond (Dublin Rathdown, Fine Gael)
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1. To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on his recent conversation with the British Prime Minister. [24532/22]

Photo of Ivana BacikIvana Bacik (Dublin Bay South, Labour)
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2. To ask the Taoiseach if he has spoken to the leaders of the parties in Northern Ireland following the Stormont elections. [24223/22]

Photo of Sorca ClarkeSorca Clarke (Longford-Westmeath, Sinn Fein)
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3. To ask the Taoiseach the engagement that he or his Department have had with the British Government and Prime Minister since the Assembly elections in Northern Ireland on 5 May 2022. [24925/22]

Photo of Sorca ClarkeSorca Clarke (Longford-Westmeath, Sinn Fein)
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4. To ask the Taoiseach the engagement that he or his Department have had with the political leaders in Northern Ireland following the Assembly elections. [24924/22]

Photo of Mary Lou McDonaldMary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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5. To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on his engagement with the British Prime Minister following the recent Stormont election. [25801/22]

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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6. To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on his recent conversation with the British Prime Minister. [26000/22]

Photo of Paul MurphyPaul Murphy (Dublin South West, RISE)
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7. To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on his recent conversation with the British Prime Minister. [26003/22]

Photo of Brendan SmithBrendan Smith (Cavan-Monaghan, Fianna Fail)
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8. To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on his engagement with the leaders of the parties in Northern Ireland following the Stormont elections. [26028/22]

Photo of Paul McAuliffePaul McAuliffe (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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9. To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on his discussions with the leaders of the parties in Northern Ireland following the Stormont elections. [26194/22]

Photo of Gary GannonGary Gannon (Dublin Central, Social Democrats)
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10. To ask the Taoiseach if he has spoken to the leaders of the political parties in Northern Ireland following the Stormont elections. [26206/22]

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 1 to 10 together. I have had a number of discussions with each of the leaders of the main parties in Northern Ireland since the election. Most recently, I travelled to Belfast on Friday, 20 May for a day of meetings. In all of these engagements, I reiterated the importance of early formation of the Northern Ireland Executive and a functioning assembly. The people of Northern Ireland want their elected representatives to address the pressing issues facing them, including the cost of living and healthcare waiting lists. The onus now is on the leaders of the political parties to work together in the time ahead to agree a basis for forming a new Executive to serve the interests of all the people of Northern Ireland.

As co-guarantor of the Good Friday Agreement, the Government will continue to work with the political parties in Northern Ireland and with the British Government to support the formation of the Executive and the operation of all the institutions of the Good Friday Agreement. The protocol was, of course, discussed extensively at these meetings. We recognise that there are genuine concerns about aspects of its implementation but these can only be addressed in a sustainable manner through intensified EU-UK discussions and agreed solutions.

Work on the formation of the Executive and on issues around the Northern Ireland protocol should proceed in parallel. One should not be a precondition for the other. We also spoke about the United Kingdom's legacy Bill and I shared my concerns regarding this unilateral move and its implications for victims.

I spoke to Prime Minister Johnson by phone on 10 May. We agreed on the importance of having a strong functioning Executive in place to deliver for the people of Northern Ireland. During our call, I urged the Prime Minister to engage in intensified EU-UK discussions to address issues relating to the implementation of the protocol. I set out clearly my serious concerns at any unilateral action at this time, which would be destabilising in Northern Ireland and would erode trust. Unilateral action is wrong and is not the correct approach. I strongly pointed out that the EU has engaged constructively in the protocol discussions, addressing the issues of medicines and last October putting forward a substantial package of flexibilities and mitigations on customs and sanitary and phytosanitary, SPS, arrangements. I stressed to the Prime Minister that the way forward should be through agreed EU-UK solutions that address the practical issues arising around the implementation of the protocol. I subsequently wrote to the Prime Minister to outline my views in detail on this matter. The British Government's indication that it will bring forward unilateral legislation to override parts of the protocol is deeply concerning. Such a step would be a serious breach of the withdrawal agreement and of international law. I sincerely believe that with intensified engagement and political commitment, the EU-UK process can deliver outcomes that respond to the genuine concerns of people in Northern Ireland.

1:12 pm

Photo of Neale RichmondNeale Richmond (Dublin Rathdown, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Taoiseach for his reply. It is accepted by everyone in this House, or at least I hope it is, that the Taoiseach's personal and political commitment to relations North and South, east and west is absolutely exemplary. As a Government backbencher I take pride when I hear him speaking on these issues and genuinely engaging. However, to be quite frank I do not believe that level of commitment is shared by his counterpart in London. It is extremely worrying that we are repeatedly seeing the livelihoods of people across this island being used as a political plaything by a Government in London that dials in and dials out. How is the Taoiseach ensuring that this British Prime Minister actually meets the responsibilities he holds in office for his entire country?

Photo of Ivana BacikIvana Bacik (Dublin Bay South, Labour)
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Following the recent Stormont election, as the Taoiseach has said, the approach of both the British Government and the Democratic Unionist Party, DUP, to the protocol has been deeply unhelpful and the people of Northern Ireland will suffer from the lack of a functioning Executive. We support the Taoiseach and all those engaged in trying to ensure that the Executive will be up and running again. We are conscious that there are very serious issues facing communities in Northern Ireland that require a functioning Executive to deal with, notably the waiting lists in hospitals in the North, which have been the subject of a good deal of concern because they are so extensive.

Waiting lists have also been a major problem in our own health service. In that context I have been asked to raise the case of Jeanie May Moylan, an 11-month old baby born in Portlaoise hospital who is in urgent need of medical treatment. Her parents have been waiting ten months for an appointment for their daughter at Crumlin hospital and are on the brink of borrowing to pay for specialist medical care. Her case was reported on by Alison O'Reilly in the Sunday Mirroron 22 May and is just one example of a serious waiting list issue in our own health system. I am conscious, as we all are, that a functioning Executive in Northern Ireland is required in order to ensure that issues around budgeting to deal the extensive waiting lists in the healthcare system there will be dealt with and that the real day-to-day concerns of the people of Northern Ireland around the cost of living, increases in the cost of fuel and food and the sorts of issues facing all of us on this island can be addressed.

Photo of Aengus Ó SnodaighAengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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I do not know whether the Taoiseach gleaned from his engagement with the Prime Minister that he had any understanding of the need for a functioning Executive, of the scale of the cost-of-living crisis in the North or of the fact that his not being properly assertive with his friends in the DUP is holding up funding which could be given to help those who are in dire need of investment. Regarding the so-called Tory legacy Bill, which has been described by the Northern Ireland Human Rights Commission as fatally flawed and incompatible with Article 2 of the European Convention on Human Rights, was there any awareness on the part of the Prime Minister that if he enacts that Bill that will be totally contrary to the Good Friday Agreement and international law?

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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In my book, there is not a lot to recommend Mr. Boris Johnson but he has, under pressure, done one positive thing recently, which was to introduce a windfall tax on the super-profits being made by energy companies. Companies like BP, Shell and others have seen their profits triple while ordinary people are being crucified by the cost of heating and energy. Under pressure, Mr. Johnson was forced to introduce a 25% windfall tax on energy companies. However, this Government resists such a windfall tax even though our energy companies also recorded spectacular and record profits while simultaneously increasing the price of energy by 46% over the past year. Between May 2021 and May 2022, energy costs have gone up 46% for ordinary people. This means that huge numbers are literally struggling to feed their children and pay their bills. The Government continues to resist the call we have repeatedly made for the imposition of a windfall tax, as has been done in the UK, on the profits of energy companies and to use that money to protect ordinary working people and low income households from the ravages of the cost-of-living crisis.

Photo of Paul MurphyPaul Murphy (Dublin South West, RISE)
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Earlier the Taoiseach appeared to suggest that saying that the Government should do more to protect families from the cost-of-living crisis was repeating Russian propaganda. That was quite incredible cynicism, to be honest.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I did not say that.

Photo of Paul MurphyPaul Murphy (Dublin South West, RISE)
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It was strongly suggested that saying that the Government should do more-----

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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No, it was not. The Deputy cannot mislead the House. That is not true.

Photo of Paul MurphyPaul Murphy (Dublin South West, RISE)
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People can go back and read the transcript-----

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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That is classic spin by the Deputy.

Photo of Paul MurphyPaul Murphy (Dublin South West, RISE)
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That is fine-----

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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That is classic politicking by the Deputy.

Photo of Paul MurphyPaul Murphy (Dublin South West, RISE)
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People can go back and read the transcripts of the exchanges between the Taoiseach and Deputy Doherty.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Yes.

Photo of Paul MurphyPaul Murphy (Dublin South West, RISE)
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Can I ask a question? Is it Russian propaganda to point out the fact that the top oil and gas companies in the world made total profits of almost $100 billion in the first quarter of 2022? How does that compare with last year? It is almost a doubling of profits. Is it Russian propaganda to point out the fact, as Deputy Boyd Barrett has done, that in this country they are taking advantage of supply shortages to jack up prices and make record profits from the pain of ordinary people?

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Who are?

Photo of Paul MurphyPaul Murphy (Dublin South West, RISE)
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The energy companies and the electricity companies in this country.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Name them.

Photo of Paul MurphyPaul Murphy (Dublin South West, RISE)
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They are BP, Shell-----

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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They are not drilling here.

Photo of Paul MurphyPaul Murphy (Dublin South West, RISE)
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Look at their profits; they have doubled.

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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We are running out of time.

Photo of Paul MurphyPaul Murphy (Dublin South West, RISE)
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As Deputy Boyd Barrett said, even-----

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Is the Deputy referring to the ESB?

Photo of Paul MurphyPaul Murphy (Dublin South West, RISE)
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-----the Tory Government-----

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Is he saying that the ESB is involved?

Photo of Paul MurphyPaul Murphy (Dublin South West, RISE)
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The ESB, Energia, Airtricity - every single electricity company in this country has increased its prices and its profits. In response to a parliamentary question we were told that a 50% windfall tax would raise €300 million. If the Tory Government can do it, even with some horrific loopholes, why can we not have a windfall tax on these super profits?

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy Richmond raised the issue of the level of my commitment to Northern Ireland. I appreciate his kind comments. In respect of the UK Prime Minister, both of us agree on the necessity to convene the assembly and the Executive and get them formed. That said, the intention of the UK Government to introduce unilateral legislation to circumvent the protocol is undermining political stability in Northern Ireland and is not conducive to getting a resolution of issues around the operation of the protocol. There aspects of the operation of the protocol that the European Union has signalled its interest in discussing with the UK Government. One gets the sense that domestic considerations are uppermost in terms of EU governments' assessment of all of this. It is very difficult to get a clear landing zone from the UK Government or, indeed, for the UK to involve itself with the EU in order to get an outcome. These issues can be resolved, just like the medicines issue was resolved last year.

The initiatives that Maroš Šefčovič put forward last October, in my view, formed the basis for decent and rounded negotiations to follow. What we got from Lord Frost was an attempt to torpedo that by invoking the European Court of Justice. This was not of concern to unionism at the time at all, if the truth be told. Unionism is concerned about the movement and transit of goods from the UK to Northern Ireland. Those issues are important and I believe they can be resolved. For the information of the other Deputies also, I met the Brexit business working group. It has done a lot of research. Manufacturing is doing very well in Northern Ireland and the protocol benefits manufacturing. The protocol benefits the dairy industry. The protocol benefits the meat industry. In its most recent survey, 65% of companies were managing the protocol well. Some 8% in the survey said they were experiencing significant difficulties. These are mainly consumer-facing companies or goods. We need to work on that 8% and make it more operable. I believe we can do that. We need to get the technocrats and the business people into the room as well because they know what works and what does not work, and what is practical and what is not practical. I picked this up from my meeting with the Brexit business working group.

Deputy Bacik raised similar issues to Deputy Richmond. I will follow up on the case with regard to the baby and Crumlin. I will certainly follow that up with the Minister. We must do everything we possibly can so that children are not waiting. They should not have to wait that long for treatment, attention, and intervention.

The Deputy was correct to say that bread-and-butter issues are what dominated the election in the North. The people in Northern Ireland will be very frustrated at the failure to convene an Assembly. When I visited the parties I said it is a very basic truth that in the democratic world when people vote through the ballot box and elect their representatives, they expect a parliament to be formed. It is the natural way in a democracy. The voice of the people in Northern Ireland must be heard. The Assembly should be convened forthwith and a speaker should be appointed. Subsequently, the Executive should be established.

On Deputy Ó Snodaigh's point, the British Prime Minister is, to be fair, very well apprised of the need for a functioning Executive and is committed to that. On the legacy issue, we have had a long-standing disagreement with the British Government around its initiative on that front. The Minister for Foreign Affairs, Deputy Coveney, in terms of the British-Irish Intergovernmental Conference, with the political parties in Northern Ireland have been arguing that. We do not accept the proposition that has been put forward by the British Government. In our view it is fundamentally against the wishes of the victims' families. It would, essentially, give many perpetrators of the most horrendous atrocities and crimes an amnesty. I am not just talking about those within state forces but also those in paramilitary groupings and other people who committed terrible atrocities. They could avoid any accountability or prospect of prosecution.

On the windfall tax, in the first instance I will make the point to the Deputies opposite that I take strong exception to what Deputy Murphy said. I said this morning that the Russian ambassador is blaming western governments. The Putin operation is in full operation propaganda-wise in blaming western governments for the 40% increase in energy costs that Deputy Boyd Barrett referred to. Russia is responsible for what is going on in the energy crisis. Russia is fundamentally responsible. Its war in Ukraine needs to be called out again and again. I note that the two Deputies did not call it out in respect of the issue.

1:22 pm

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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The energy prices were going up before the war started.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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It is without question a key factor. On the windfall tax, the ESB is a State company. We already get a dividend from the ESB. We do not want to tax wind energy companies because we want to move as fast as we possibly can to secure our independence in that regard and to secure energy security.

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I thank the Taoiseach. We must move on. I am sorry but we are out of time.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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We need the energy companies to invest and have a total focus on other areas that can be looked at in the fullness of time. In Ireland we are not similar to the UK.

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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We are out of time. We need to move on to Questions Nos. 11 and 12.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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We do not have too many native fossil fuel companies in this country, as the Deputy knows well. I do not believe that we should tax Bord na Móna and I do not believe we should tax the ESB, as the Deputy has advocated. We get a dividend every year and that makes sense.