Dáil debates

Thursday, 19 May 2022

Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions

Third Level Admissions

11:00 am

Photo of Ruairi Ó MurchúRuairi Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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100. To ask the Minister for Education and Skills the measures being considered in respect of the yearly increase in the number of applicants to the CAO system and the lack of places for the most in demand courses; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [25342/22]

Photo of Ruairi Ó MurchúRuairi Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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What measures are being considered to the yearly increase in the number of applications to the CAO system and the lack of places for the most in-demand courses? I ask that the Minister take into account the issue of having to deal still with the issue of grade inflation, the date of results, which is an issue for a great number of students and parents, and the particular issue of necessary workforce planning.

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Deputy for his question. There is a very important issue there on the date of the results. The challenge was borne out in trying to do something good by students to ensure that there was a second opportunity to sit the leaving certificate for those impacted by Covid.

At the same time, this is a call for the State Examinations Commission, SEC, to make, rather than the Minister for Education. It would be useful for the commission to make that call and do so quickly. Students and their families need that information, even in terms of the logistics of planning for how their summer looks and whether they want to take a break. There also are the big issues to consider, such as securing student accommodation when the college year starts. I very much hope clarity can be brought urgently to this matter.

I thank the Deputy for raising the important issue of applications to the CAO system and how we continue to create places for the most in-demand courses. Although last year's CAO application numbers were the highest on record, more applicants than ever before were offered and accepted a place in higher education. In fact, the majority of offers made were for first preference courses. I say that in acknowledgment of the work done by people in the higher education sector. This year's CAO application numbers look to be slightly lower than last year's, although they remain high overall. I very much recognise that. In order to ensure applicants are given every opportunity to follow an educational path that works for them, I am seeking both to create additional college places in areas of identified skills need and to broaden the national conversation on third level options.

My officials have been engaging extensively with the Higher Education Authority, HEA, and the higher education sector to identify where additional places can and should be provided in the system for the next academic year. These additional places will be targeted at areas of acute skills need, as identified through our national skills architecture. Courses that provide healthcare workers, courses related to construction and courses related to the green economy are of particular interest because we see both significant demand for such courses and significant need for workers in those areas. I am pleased to say that engagements on providing additional places are at a very advanced stage and it is hoped that approximately 1,000 additional places can be created.

However, increasing the number of places is only one part of the answer. In tandem with this, it is vital that all learners have access to the right courses for them across the spectrum of provision. Increasing capacity in apprenticeship programmes, as we discussed earlier, and the provision of further education options must be part of a balanced third level education system.

11:10 am

Photo of Ruairi Ó MurchúRuairi Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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I welcome the Minister's answer. A major issue that needs to be taken into account, as Deputy Conway-Walsh mentioned, is that colleges, on the basis of the funding structure, may sometimes choose to offer particular courses because it makes more financial sense to do so. We need to deal with that aspect.

In regard to the whole issue of workforce planning, lifelong learning and the various route maps through education, the Minister spoke about the national skills architecture. Will he give some detail in that regard? In the area of health, for example, has he had much engagement from the Department of Health in regard to further training, particularly of nurses? I have in mind lifelong learning and facilitating people who are working in healthcare and who may want to go on to become a nurse. In many cases, these staff are willing to commit to the health system and they are people we desperately need.

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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The short answer to the Deputy's question about whether we have had engagement with the Department of Health is "Yes". The most intense area of engagement, to be truthful, has been around places in medicine. As I said in answer to an earlier question, it is the job of my Department to try to respond to the workforce planning needs of other Departments. It is not my Department's job to say we need X number of doctors or Y number of social workers. Where other Departments and agencies come forward and say there is a need to train more doctors, nurses and so on, we will work with them on that. It is only right and proper that we do so because creating a college place will not fix the issue; there must also be a matching clinical placement.

I am very pleased with the level of engagement we have had from the Department of Heath, particularly around medicine places. I expect to be in a position to finalise a significant increase in medicine places for this September. Better than that, we are also working to form a view on where we will get to over the next five years in terms of increasing medicine places to a sustainable level. Similarly, the Department of Health has been very helpful around nursing training and the work done by the chief nursing officer in this regard.

I am almost out of time. We are also doing some work on exactly what the Deputy referred to, that is, lifelong learning. We have people working in our nursing homes and caring for the most loved people in our lives, including our parents and grandparents, but we have often not academically recognised the brilliance of the work they do. Last week, we launched a new apprenticeship programme for healthcare assistants to enable them to get that recognition and to access a career pathway that may not have been available to them to date.

Photo of Ruairi Ó MurchúRuairi Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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This is an issue we certainly will be revisiting into the future. I welcome the Minister's commitment in this regard.

I will do now what I generally do, which is to apologise and raise a related question. The question will not shock the Minister greatly. It is a specific question about technological university status for Dundalk Institute of Technology, DkIT, which he visited recently. I have had my own meetings lately at which I have heard some positive information in regard to criteria being met. However, there still are major worries. There have been a number of missteps and we know the route map will be through the provisions of section 38 of the Technological Universities Act 2018. We need to ensure it happens. The Minister probably has met those involved with the regional development centre and has seen the huge impact DkIT is having in regard to research, the whole M1 Border corridor area and also in regard to business innovation, including its involvement with Enterprise Ireland and all the other agencies. The one point everybody involved makes is the absolute necessity of ensuring DkIT reaches technological university status. Parents and students need that too.

Photo of Rose Conway-WalshRose Conway-Walsh (Mayo, Sinn Fein)
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Regarding workforce planning, will the Minister request the Taoiseach to convene a group of senior officials, led by the Minister's Department, that would pull together all the relevant Departments to target training in health and social care? It is really urgent that we join the dots between the provision of third level places and the workforce planning issue. It has not been done properly for many years and we are bearing the brunt of the consequences of that in terms of front-line staffing. The Minister said extra staff have been recruited by the Department of Health, but many of those staff are not front-line workers, although some of them are. With advances in medicine happening all the time, we will continuously need proper workforce planning, whether for 12 months or for three, five, ten, 15 or 20 years, if we are to get this right.

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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On workforce planning, it is a sensible suggestion to look at how we can better co-ordinate in this regard. I will reflect on how I can respond more fully to Deputy Conway-Walsh on that point. There is a level of engagement going on between my Department and the Department of Health that is quite intense and useful. There are other relevant Departments. I have spoken about this to the Minister for Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth, for instance, and the Minister of State with responsibility for disability services. There were times in this country when it was a funding issue that prevented an extra speech and language therapist from being hired. I am finding more and more, including in my own constituency, that this is no longer the case. The issue is the lack of an available trained person to take up the job. I will come back on the Deputy on her sensible suggestion.

I was expecting Deputy Ó Murchú to ask me about DkIT, which he does on a regular basis. To be clear, the north east must not be left behind and it needs a technological university. Of that there is no doubt. I visited DkIT briefly in recent weeks. I was pleased to have an opportunity to talk to Dr. Ruairí Nevin there, who is the expert adviser from the HEA. We have provided funding through the technological university transformation fund, TUTF. Between the funding and the expert advice, I am told progress is being made. Obviously, I will believe that when I see it and I must wait to receive the information and for the evaluation to take place. When any information is received, I want the Deputy and DkIT to know it will be treated with the utmost urgency and priority with a view to making progress. I will keep in touch with the Deputy on the matter.

Question No. 101 replied to with Written Answers.