Pádraig O'Sullivan (Cork North Central, Fianna Fail)
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85. To ask the Minister for Education and Skills when she expects the National Council for Special Education to complete and submit its policy advice on education provision in special classes and special schools, which was originally requested in 2018; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [45216/21]

Pádraig O'Sullivan (Cork North Central, Fianna Fail)
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In September 2018, the National Council for Special Education, NCSE, was requested to develop policy advice on the educational provision that should be in place for students educated in special schools and classes and to make recommendations on what is required to enable them to achieve better outcomes. When does the Minister expect the NCSE to complete and submit its policy advice on education provision in special classes and schools?

Josepha Madigan (Dublin Rathdown, Fine Gael)
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In 2018, the then Minister for Education and Skills requested the NCSE to advise on the educational provision that should be in place for students in special schools and classes. Ireland is not alone in evaluating its educational provision for students in special education settings. Many European countries are thinking about the future direction they should take. This is particularly pertinent in the light of new obligations and responsibilities arising from the United Nations Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities, UNCRPD.

The NCSE strives to ensure its policy advice is informed by robust and wide-ranging consultative and research processes. Its policy advice is always informed by international best practice. Much work has been done in this regard and the NCSE published a progress report in November 2019. At that stage, the council had reviewed existing educational provision in Ireland, conducted a detailed literature review, consulted various stakeholder groups and visited a number of Irish schools. It had also looked at fully inclusive schools and practice in Canada and Portugal. The report ultimately found no evidence to show that one type of special education placement is better than another. It also stated that any decision to move towards greater inclusion would require careful consideration and planning.

It is not something that could be achieved in the short term. However, since the publication of the progress report, the NCSE has conducted further research and analysis. It has engaged in a public consultation survey and received further submissions and expert inputs. Obviously, it has examined the implications arising from the United Nations convention. Before the advice is finalised, every effort is being made to ensure the NCSE has consulted widely with a view to developing shared understandings on the critical issues involved and proposed solutions. I expect to have that report completed by the end of the year.

Pádraig O'Sullivan (Cork North Central, Fianna Fail)
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I welcome the comments of the Minister of State, particularly in respect of the report being published by the end of the year, which will be most welcome. I note that the former Minister, Deputy McHugh, stated that each child should be educated with his or her mainstream peers wherever feasible. That is very much reflected in what the NCSE has stated in its progress report. The former Minister also stated that the decision on whether to move towards greater inclusion of all students in mainstream schools requires very careful consideration and that it is a long-term vision that will happen gradually and by emphasising the needs of children with the most complex needs at the heart of it. As a former educator, I know it can be seen at ground level that there is undoubtedly a shift towards greater inclusivity in all schools, which is most welcome. That is the model shift that is occurring but, obviously, it brings its own challenges and issues. There will be issues in respect of the anxiety of parents, students and educators. Fundamental to any shift or change in light of the report will be supplementing schools with the appropriate resources and investment. That will be a prerequisite.

Josepha Madigan (Dublin Rathdown, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Deputy. I accept his point regarding the majority of children with additional needs being educated in mainstream schools. That is the case. Obviously, there are special classes that cater for approximately 8,000 pupils and there are 124, or almost 126, special schools that cater for an equal number of children. Each of these educational environments provides a vital service to children with additional needs. Depending on the level of complexity of need, such children will be in a mainstream class, a special class or a special school. The Deputy is right to say that if there were to be a shift - there is no such shift envisaged at present - it would have to be done over a long period. However, I believe inclusivity is at the heart of the education system and a review of the Education for Persons with Special Educational Needs, EPSEN, Act is on my list of action priorities.

Pádraig O'Sullivan (Cork North Central, Fianna Fail)
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I welcome the comments of the Minister of State but several issues and challenges would be ahead of us if there were to be any shift in terms of delivering for special needs students. The challenges I highlight are that it would be a phased process if it needed to happen. The number of students about whom we are speaking reflects approximately 2% of the school community. It is a small minority but they are the minority who have the greatest need. The questions we need to ask ourselves include whether a four-year-old or five-year-old child should be put into a special setting immediately or given the opportunity to interact with his or her peers first. Another question we need to ask ourselves is whether students with the most complex of needs can have those needs met in a mainstream environment. These are fundamental questions that we need to ask. Of course, a fundamental question is why students should have to travel 30, 40 or 50 miles to an appropriate setting under the current model. Those are the main issues that need to be addressed.

Josepha Madigan (Dublin Rathdown, Fine Gael)
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The questions the Deputy has posed are valid. The EPSEN Act, which is the main legislation underpinning special education, was published 17 years ago, in 2004, and the focus in respect of the provision of special education has changed substantially since then, from a model that was diagnosis-led to one that is now driven by the needs of the child. Therein lies the answer to the questions regarding whether children with complex needs can fit into a mainstream school or, indeed, the other way around. My view is that at present there is a place for all these special class, special school and mainstream settings to cater for the range of children with additional needs who are in the system. I thank the Deputy for his interest in this matter.